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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Latest Information on the Fight Against ISIS; Some in the GOP Mainstream Want to Draft Mitt Romney to Run; Utah Child Custody Case Examined. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired November 13, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:02] MARK HERTLING, LT. GEN. FORMER COMMANDING GEN. U.S. ARMY EUROPE: It the same that he knows more about ISIS, it would interesting for him to have a debate with someone who actually knows a little bit about ISIS and see where he stocks up because from what I can tell, he knows very little about either ISIS or what's going in the Middle East right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: General Hertling, when he mentioned what he would do to ISIS, he said he would bomb the rhymes with split -- out of ISIS. And then he went on to say that he would take the oil assets.

But I really need to get from a general's perspective the military realities of that, the devil is in the details. And these are big details, what kind of details is he not understanding?

HERTLING: Well he doesn't understand the details of campaign planning and the fact that you have to actually target ISIS. And this is an organization that is within and among the people.

If you could find them all or pull them all together, and bomb them, wouldn't it be a great world. But unfortunately, that's not how they are conducting operations. They're spread among the people, they have taken over land masses, they have terrorized others who want to live a good life.

So to stay that you're just going to drop bombs would put you almost in the -- work -- well, it would put you in the war criminal and the immoral and unethical and illegal action category. You can't do that.

So I think that Mr. Trump needs to listen to some folks who've actually done this before and understand the challenges and difficulties associated with campaign planning and national security.

BANFIELD: OK, Jeffrey Lord, let me move on to you, there's just so much material. I'm literally going through assumption here.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And yes, having fun, Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: You know, we're having fun, sure. But it's serious, I'm an American by choice, I worked hard to be an immigrant in this country. I am extraordinarily proud of my vote. I voted every election. And I'm very upset at what I'm seeing happening with this process. I don't like it when I see somebody being compared to a child molester, someone of Ben Carson's ilk. I think it's frustrating to be calling people of Iowa stupid if they believe Dr. Carson.

And I want to get from your perspective whether you think I'm the only one or whether there going to be lots and lots of voters who might turn a page here and say "That's not appropriate."

LORD: The thing Ashleigh is, having been around this kind of thing for a long time, and read my share of history, when John F. Kennedy was calling Hubert Humphrey a draft dodger. Senator Bob Kerrey was calling then Governor Clinton an exceptionally good liar. Ronald Reagan was accused of voodoo economics.

This kind of Bill Clinton, said I think in 2008 that the Obama people had played the race cart on him. This kind of thing goes on in primaries in both parties its standard operating procedure. Frankly, I'm not at all shocked at any of this. I mean this is just what goes on here, this is just the latest version for Circa 2016. But we have been here before many, many, many times. And I'm sure we'll be here again.

BANFIELD: Well Tara, I want to get you in on this, because I was reminded, I fairly young at the time, but I saw a nice clip on the Rachel Maddow show the other night, where she showed Bob Dole engaging in a back to forth with George Bush and he said, stop lying about my record. And it was ugly and uncomfortable, and I thought wow I guess I have forgotten that things were ugly back then.

The only difference, so Tara is that it seemed that the candidates were ugly to one another, but not to key demographics of voters. And I'm not clear on why this is a winning strategy, or if in fact it's really not going to be a winning strategy.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that the definition of what was considered ugly back then is blown out of the window by what's going on now.

I mean what -- this certain level of the decency should be involved in running for the presidency. And I think that we've crossed those lines.

Some of the issues that Jeffrey just brought up some of those examples, those were attacks about policy for the most part.

What Donald Trump is doing is playground juvenile attacks on people's looks, on their personalities, you know, doing a one-man standup kind of a show like Charlie Sheen used to do, I mean his rants that are nonsensical oftentimes.

And I frankly look at this, and I say, at what point our people going to have enough of this, because it's clear that Donald Trump was outside of his comfort zone and his league talking foreign policy the debate. He was exposed, and so was Ben Carson. But we're talking about Trump right now. But the most important fundamental priority of the president of the United States is commander in chief. And if he can't -- if he's over here throwing wild accusations out and saying that he's going to carpet bomb ISIS, that's unrealistic, it's not good policy, and it shows that he is not ready to be president day one.

So as we get closer to voting, I would hope that people who are -- who take voting seriously look at this and say, "Is this really who we think is the best qualified person to be the leader of the free world?"

[12:35:01] LORD: You know, I would just say...

BANFIELD: Go ahead Jeff.

LORD: ... these were the same kind of accusations hurled at Ronald Reagan when he ran for president that he was an extremist, he was a warmonger, he couldn't be trusted as commander in chief. I mean some of this has been around for a long time, and it was hurled specifically at Ronald Reagan and he worked out pretty well.

SETMAYER: But was he compared to a child molester. Do they say...

BANFIELD: I think...

SETMAYER: ... apologies like a child molester. I mean it wasn't the same, it wasn't...

BANFIELD: I think the difference is the history on it for the same and Ronald Reagan had led the state and he certainly seem to know his policy. He was a tough talking but not clown like in the way he presents his arguments. I mean to shake your belly and shake belts and suggest the night would slide off because you "Know a lot about knives and belts." And that's Donald Trumps quote. It's just...

SETMAYER: Entertaining, Ashleigh, it's entertainment, this is...

BANFIELD: For the three of you.

SETMAYER: Did you know Jerry Springer either. But, you know, that's the people like, entertainment. And that's what Donald Trump was doing and that's why he's been leading...

BANFIELD: Yeah, GOP establishment is not liking this entertainment. I'm going to talk about that in a moment.

I want to thank all three of you. But not before I leave with this little treat as it is Friday the 13th Donald Trump has decided to take to his Instagram and release a little video. And he has connected it to Friday the 13th or Halloween one of the three or one of the two Scary Movies and their songs. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had large campaign actually, I try to stab him in the abdomen. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does it fit with a guy who he knew, no.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Once again Friday the 13th but I'm not sure if that's the music to it, I forgot.

Coming up next, a new poll shows that Donald Trump is the candidate. But the Democrats are fearing the most, what's so called establishment Republicans maybe even more scared of him.

So what is their plan? And why are they so worried about Hillary Clinton flipping on a banana peel. You'll find out next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:41:25] BANFIELD: Donald Trump and Ben Carson are creating a serious dilemma for the so-called establishment wing of the Republican Party.

The fear is that neither of them can beat Hillary Clinton in the general election. Hard core party members can no longer dismiss the possibility of one of these two winning as just crazy talk.

So what could the party do about this? At the last-minute alternative, believe it or not, there is already a pledgeling draft Mitt Romney movement, with he's own website draftmitt.org.

For the first time in decades the split over who will have the ticket could trigger a real floor fight at the Republican national Convention.

I want to talk about this with CNN Senior Political Analyst David Gergen and Larry Sabato who's the director of the center for politics at the University of Virginia.

Larry if could begin with you. I mean this is serious the Republicans are really talking about doing some strategizing at the convention to get the guy they want instead of the guy that the voters want. But could that work?

LARRY SABATO, DIR. CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIV. OF VIRGINIA: It's going to be difficult. You're absolutely correct, the leadership of the Republican Party is very, very worried. You know the problem for them of course is that the base, the Republican base has no intention to them listening to them.

And that's why the majority of the potential Republican voters seem to be leaning to the outsiders. But let's remember a lot can change while anything can happen in this crazy year. The odds are that the Republicans will still get a nominee not named Trump or Carson, one way or the other.

BANFIELD: That is true and yet a Republican strategist who is quote are in Washington Post with a big headline things, time for GOP panic? Has got this we're potentially careening down this road of nominating somebody who frankly isn't fit to be president in terms of the basic ability and temperament to do the job.

This person continues to say, what if Hillary hits a babana peel and this person actually become president. So David Gergen we're not talking about a GOP establishment who's not just worried about losing this democratic nomination or this Republican nomination. They're worried about that Republican becoming president.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, this have been the most wildest most bizarre year we've had in a long, long time, as Larry has pointed out on numerous occasions. And look anything can happen, but I think the fear of a Trump or Carson nomination should be real.

After all, Donald Trump declared about five months ago and since then, he's been consistently at the top or second, you know, in the race for the nomination, consistently for five months. The Iowa caucuses are only 2 1/2 months away.

So, you know, he's getting closer and closer, and there's no one who has overtaken either Trump or Carson, and as Larry says, 50 percent of the Republican voters have said consistently said for the last five months they want someone who has never been in public office for their entire lives.

So I think the fear of a Trump or Carson winning the nomination should be felt out there and it is real. You know, I don't think -- I think the chances of Trump winning a nomination are much higher than Trump winning the presidency or Carson winning the presidency.

BANFIELD: OK, but let's talk about just voters and what they do in the ballot booth, when they go into the voting booth.

And Larry Sabato, there's a great concern among this establishment folks that that a Trump or a Carson on the ticket will have a dire effect on everybody below down the ticket.

So that means the house, that means the senate, there's a really big worry that this is going to have a massive effect on the Republicans right across the country.

[12:45:06] GERGEN: Yes, indeed. In fact, if you could poll the Democratic leadership, they would be nearly unanimous in their hope that either Trump or Carson becomes the Republican nominee. They would be thrilled with a Trump/Carson ticket or a Carson/ Trump ticket for precisely that reason.

Look, David and I are both old enough to remember 1964 and 1972.

Now, in 1964, the Republicans went off of the track, and the Conservatives insisted on Barry Goldwater and he got 38 percent of the vote.

In 1972, the Democrats went off the track, the left insisted on George McGovern, and he got 38 percent of the vote. And there were loads of people running for governor and senator and house member on that party ticket that lost because of how poorly the nominee for president did.

BANFIELD: I could just see the opposition research commercials coming out now and quoting their group paid for by the "We hate 38 group."

I have to wrap it there, but Gergen will you come back again and Larry Sabato, it's nice to have you both. I do think that this story continuing. So I'd like to have you both back.

SABATO: And let's do it, Ashleigh. OK, thanks.

BANFIELD: From the Republicans to the Democrats now after Clinton, Sanders and O'Malley face-off in Iowa tomorrow CNN going to have a special debate wrap up and that's Saturday night 11:00 P.M. eastern right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:55] BANFIELD: Got an update now on the heartbreaking story that is sparking outrage from the rights groups and others about a Utah judge who ordered that a baby be taken away from two lesbian foster parents who had been caring for her for three month, and who want to adopt her. Instead, the judge ordered that the child be placed in "A more traditional home." These two women are legally married. Even Utah's governor is puzzled at the judge's decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GARY HERBERT, (R) UTAH: I expect the court and the judge to follow the law. He may not like the law, but he should follow the law. We don't want activism on the bench in any shape or form.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, the Utah State officials are challenging that decision. And might I also add that the birth mother wants these two moms to adopt her baby.

The Director of Utah's Division of Child and Family Services Brent Platt is joins me now live. I think a lot of people would expect that would be coming in say, you know, we came into court, we thought this wasn't a good idea, but it's quite the opposite, you're on the side of these two mothers, these married mothers for keeping this child. What is your plan to counteract what the judge has done?

BRENT PLATT, DIR. UTAH DIVISION OF CHILD & FAMILY SERVICES: Well, we've filed a motion with his court with the judge last night. Asking him to reconsider the decision, because we are very supportive of this couple, and supportive of the child continuing to live with his family. So now, we are just waiting to hear back.

BANFIELD: OK, if the judge decline to stay in his order that perfectly within his per view.

PLATT: Right. BANFIELD: You can go further and you can ask for, you know, a petition of the court of appeals on this, and are you prepared to do that?

PLATT: We are prepared to do that, yeah.

BANFIELD: OK, so this is something. I mean, this is going to be the cost to the taxpayer. How are you, what kind of reaction are you getting to the story?

PLATT: You know, for the most part, we are getting, and it's very positive, people are very supportive, a lot of people are scratching their heads trying to understand why the judge seems to be targeting this couple. We are scratching our heads as well. But I mean that, you know, we are also getting a fair amount of feedback saying that, you know, the judge is right, and we have no business to placing with same-sex couples. I disagree, you know, it's legal, it's lawful this is great couple. They are legally married, they went through the process to be licensed as a foster parent. It's a great family and it's a great fit for this kid

BANFIELD: And they're raising two other children. We should say as well. Who're in their...

PLATT: Yeah.

BANFIELD: ... early teens, I believe, somewhere around 12 or 14, so it's not as though their first-time parents, see that but, you know, that's beside the point.

PLATT: Right.

BANFIELD: They went through and I need to ask you because you are part of the process of the vetting to place this foster baby and then ultimately the adoption. And you do some pretty rigorous testing. They went through all of that. Were there any red flags or hitches that maybe the judge thought, you know, I'm not crazy about what DCFS found on this case.

PLATT: Right. No, there were no red flags. It's my understanding that my team, they raised no red flags with the judge, no concerns. The child had been on the home for three months and well continues to rescind (ph) in the home.

But, you know, for three months everybody is doing well, our caseworkers are very happy with the placement. We went into the hearing not expecting this at all, it was, so a surprise to all of us.

BANFIELD: All right. I just need to update you, because as you are speaking.

PLATT: OK.

BANFIELD: I just been handed something which is breaking news and it looks though as we are speak the judge has actually rescinded his own order. He has amended it. He changed the ruling. I believe he has actually done something and I'm trying to read this quickly while I'm speaking to you to cross out the notion that the heterosexual couple or more traditional household would be, you know, preferential in this respect. I wish I had the technicals, because sometimes the devil is in details, but I'd love to get your reaction to this.

PLATT: Well, I got to say I'm really happy, because it's what we expect and that's what we hoped. I need to read the order as well, but it's not over. I mean, it sounds like what he's done is he rescinded the part of the order that requires us to move the child within seven day, so that's great, but as my understanding that he is set another hearing for December 4th where he still going to be reviewing the situation, so we have time...

[12:55:12] BANFIELD: All right, I'm going have to -- sorry, I have to interrupt you only because I've got two breaking stories right on top of one other. We're going to continue to watch this. We'll get your reaction, but Josh Earnest at the White House podium right now, speaking about the death of Jihadi John.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SCRETARY: ... of Prime Minister Cameron's remarks. So, I referred to his office for an explanation. But certainly, the role that Mr. Emwazi has played in radicalizing individuals around the world, and inspiring individuals to join their cause, made him a threat not just to the region, but to countries around the world.

And, you know, I would just note that this air strike that has gotten understandably a fair amount of attention in this country is consistent with a number of other operations that the United States military has carried out inside of Syria against leading ISIL figures.

Earlier this summer, we noted that an ISIL Senior Leader Abu Bakr al- Turkmani was describe by some people as the number two in ISIL was killed in the coalition air strike in Iraq. There were other external fighters Reyaad Khan and Ruhul Amin were killed coalition air strike in August near Raqqa.

So this is consistent with the kinds of operations that the President and our coalition partners have. But the President ordered, and the United States and coalition partners have carried out against the ISIL leader. And it's consistent with our broader military component of our counter ISIL strategy to apply significant pressure to the ISIL leaders. And that has yielded in some cases important.

Intelligence that can be to be exploited, it also serves the purpose of ensuring that those ISIL leaders are devoting a significant amount of their time to their own security. And that is less time and if they can devote to ensuring that their operation can run successfully and that frankly that they can devote to plots and plans they maybe consider against western parties.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Switching topic, is there any kind of reaction to the White House to the latest allocation misconduct (inaudible) secret service agent?

EARNEST: Darlene, I'm aware of those reports. Obviously from reading the reports, the allegations included in them are disgusting and allegations that the administration including the secret service takes quite seriously. I think that the fact that as soon as the secret service became a aware of this information that they acted, is indication of how seriously they take this matter.

But I'm able and I'm willing to comment much more about a personal matter. For additional details, you can check in with the secret service.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One last question. Are you aware that Ben Carson said earlier today that he's going to be releasing evidence that he has of China's involvement in Syria, and not even sure that was White House (inaudible)?

EARNEST: Someone to tell me that he said that earlier today. I guess it's not common that, maybe it violates my job description as spokesperson to be speechless, but I think in this case I am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, thanks.

EARNEST: Roberta?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was there a way to sort of characterize how the importance of this air strike that on this individual in overall fight against the Islamic state?

EARNEST: Well, I think Roberta, what I would -- the way that I would describe it to you is I think it is clear evidence that we are making important progress and one element of the strategy which is to apply pressure to the ISIL leadership, and to capitalize on the available intelligence to advance our goals.

Again, I say all of this without the Department of Defense having rendered a final assessment about the results of this particular action, but the fact that, you know, we were even able to conduct this air strike, I think is some indication that we are serious about of applying pressure to ISIL leaders, and to, you know, using the intelligence to do that.

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