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27 Governors to Obama: Refugees Not Welcome; Interview with Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez of California. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired November 17, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:18] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Just in, new arrests in connection with the Paris attacks. German media reporting that three people have been arrested near the West German town of Aachen. This as France and its allies ratchet up the war on ISIS.

Russia makes a startling announcement. Investigators there now concede it was a bomb that apparently downed the airliner over Egypt last month. Russian President Vladimir Putin vows to intensify airstrikes in Syria. And at this hour we're seeing signs it may already have started.

France dispatches another wave of warplanes into the Syria as police launched another sweep on the ground. Overnight security forces carry out 128 new raids searching for anyone possibly connected to the Paris attacks.

And there are new details on the suspected mastermind. The U.S. intelligence deemed him a grave threat earlier this year and Western allies tried to kill him but had trouble tracking him in Syria.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry meets with France's president. Next hour we'll hear from Francois Hollande and next week he'll visit the White House.

This morning Christiane Amanpour sat down with Secretary Kerry who says the global momentum against ISIS is building.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: There is a new awareness. People are coming together in this coalition, which we built. I mean, the coalition has only been in existence for a year. One year. One year ago we didn't have a coalition. One month ago we didn't have a political process in place, which we now have with Iran and with Russia at the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We have extensive coverage for you morning. Our Poppy Harlow was on the ground in Paris. She'll be joining us all morning long with the latest. But first CNN's Matthew Chance is in Moscow with the apparent bombing of that Russian airliner and the murder of all 224 people on board.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the first time Russia has confirmed that it was a bomb that caused the downing of that Metrojet airliner on October 31st over the Sinai Peninsula killing all 224 people on board.

The head of the Russian security services Alexander Bortnikov, head of the FSB, telling state television, appearing on state television briefing President Putin, rather, saying that it was unambiguously a terrorist act. He said the traces of foreign-made explosive were found in the airline debris and in the passenger belongs. He said the bomb was about one kilo weight of TNT or the equivalent, which accounted for the fact that the debris from the fuselage of the aircraft had spread across such a wide area.

The FSB also saying that they are offering a reward of $50 million for any information that will lead to the -- about those responsible for the plane crash and for the act. Well, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has been very swift in his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (Through Translator): The murder of our people in Sinai is one of the bloodiest in terms of the number of victims of such crimes. We won't easily wipe away the tears in our hearts and souls. It will stay with us forever. But that will not prevent us from finding and punishing the perpetrators.

We should not apply any time limits. We need to know all the perpetrators by name. We will search for them everywhere, wherever they are hiding. We will find them in any spot on the planet and we will punish them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHANCE: Vladimir Putin not identifying ISIS in those remark but saying that the Russian airstrikes in Syria, which remember Russia says that is primarily focused on ISIS, will not just continue but will intensify. They will continue, they will be intensified to show, and this is a quote, "that the criminals understand that revenge is unavoidable."

So Vladimir Putin there leading the charge as it were for retribution against those who carried out the bombing of that Metrojet Airbus A- 321 on October 31st.

Matthew Chance, CNN Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right. France says the Paris terror attacks have put the country at war with ISIS and its military is responding in kind.

CNN's Poppy Harlow in Paris with more on that. Hi, Poppy. POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. Also we

are learning new developments this morning, really haunting reports when you consider all this, a missed opportunity.

Sources telling us here at CNN that the suspected mastermind of these deadly attacks in Paris was not only on the radar of U.S. intelligence but also in the crosshairs of many Western allies.

CNN's Clarissa Ward here, breaking it down for us. And when you look at men so young, radicalized. You've spent the better half of the last year studying these jihadis, talking to them.

[09:05:10] Why are they so hard to track down with the best intelligence sources in the world?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think sometimes we don't give them enough credit. These guys are actually very technologically savvy. They know which messenger services to use. They use sure spot which is encrypted. They start secret chats on telegram which are encrypted so they're technologically savvy, but also, Poppy, they are street smart.

HARLOW: Right.

WARD: A lot of them come from criminal backgrounds. Abaaoud, who's being a good example of that, he was involved in a street gang in Brussels, in that suburb where he came from. And what does that mean? Well, it means that you have this kind of dual effect, this kind of a toxic brew.

HARLOW: Right.

WARD: On the one hand a jihadi who's been radicalized, and has that dilatory, but on the other hand a criminal who knows how to avoid police, who knows how to avoid detection.

HARLOW: Sure. How do get weapons.

WARD: Who knows how to get weapons -- exactly. And that combination, that hybrid, if you will, has given rice to this new kind of terrorist which is all the more tough and difficult for intelligence forces to find.

HARLOW: A new kind of terrorist who we're hearing is able to be radicalized so much more quickly. Really within a matter of weeks. And you know where they're taken first and how it works.

WARD: It's really interesting, Poppy, because when you talk to different jihadis inside Syria and Iraq, the most dangerous ones really.

HARLOW: Yes.

WARD: The ISIS ones specifically. They don't tend to have a grownup with a good understanding of Islam.

HARLOW: Sure.

WARD: They didn't grow up in practicing religious families many of them. They came to their religion much later in life which makes them much more vulnerable. These were street kids, a lot of them, they get radicalized. They want their lives to have meaning. They want to feel empowered. And the minute they set foot in Syria when they joined ISIS they're put into this training camp. Not to learn how to use weapons, not to learn how to build explosives, but to learn this toxic ideology. They are inculcated with it, indoctrinated day in and day out.

And within a matter of weeks, you see the incredible difference. I talked to one jihadi before he joined ISIS and then after he joined ISIS.

HARLOW: Really?

WARD: And the gulf in his thinking, in his communication, in his very Manichean view of the world was just so striking, I've never seen anything quite like it. And it's also important to remember that the effect of living in a war zone.

HARLOW: Sure. Sure.

WARD: It's dehumanizing. It's brutalizing. It changes your sensitivities. That combined with that toxic indoctrination is just a deadly mix.

HARLOW: Why do you think it is that it has been so hard for the United States, for its Western allies, to fight them on that front? ISIS' propaganda, very, very strong on social media. But why is it that we cannot seem to combat that? Is it because there is no better opportunities presented to them or is that the easy answer?

WARD: That's part of it. But I also think there's a sense -- it's so difficult to know when people are becoming radicalized. I talked to one British counterterrorism official who called it bedroom jihadi. It's online, in their rooms, at night.

HARLOW: Wow.

WARD: Even their families often don't know that it's happening.

HARLOW: And that once it's done, it's done, isn't it? We can't change their minds.

Clarissa Ward, thank you very much. She'll be with us throughout the next two hours. I do want to go to Ivan Watson because right now a massive manhunt is underway this morning for this man, Saleh Abdeslam, he's only 26 years old, he's a French citizen and he slipped through the grips of Belgian authorities. He is believed to be a longstanding associate of the man Clarissa and I were just speaking about, Abdelhamid Abaaoud.

Let's get right to CNN senior international correspondent Ivan Watson. You have brand new information about him. And just frankly how terrified Belgian authorities are of him at this point in time?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, the Belgian federal prosecutor tells me that three of the Paris suspects in the Paris attacks, including Saleh Abdeslam, they were both on the radar of Belgian officials long before the attacks took place. In the case of the Saleh Abdeslam and his brother Ibrahim who is a suicide bomber in the Paris attacks, they had both been questioned by Belgian police perhaps as early as February 2015.

They first caught the attention of authorities here when the older brother, Ibrahim, was third suspect, was deported from Turkey after apparently trying to get to Syria presumably to be a volunteer foreign fighter there. Both brothers were questioned and then eventually released when they denied that they wanted to go Syria.

The third suspect, Bilal Hadfi, who was also a suicide bomber in Paris last Friday night, he was a resident of the city, the capital, Brussels. And was believed to have traveled to Syria where he was a suspected jihadi fighter. What the belgian authorities did not know was that he had come back to Europe, apparently evading the international arrest warrant that had been issued to him. Much like international arrest warrants have been issued to most other Belgian citizens who are known and believed to have traveled to Syria to fight.

[09:10:15] The Belgian prosecutor went on the say that the authorities here have their hands full just trying to keep track of approximately 130 Belgian citizens and residents who have already traveled to Syria to be volunteer fighters, to be jihadis, and who have since returned, and they do not have the manpower to keep track of the hundreds of additional people who are radicalized and believed to want to travel to Syria.

They don't have enough people to keep an eye on those additional people, people like the two Abdeslam brothers. Now a third brother, Mohammed Abdeslam, he lives here in Brussels. In fact the family house is about 100 feet from where I'm standing right now. He was briefly detained this weekend after the terrorist attacks. And since released no criminal charges against him, he spoke up in defense of his family. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED ABDESLAM, BROTHER OF SUSPECTED ATTACKER (Through Translator): You also need to understand that in spite of the tragedy my parents are in shock. We do not realize yet what has happened. My family and I are affected by what happened. We found out by TV just like many of you. We did not think for a moment that one of our brothers was related to these attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: Now Saleh Abdeslam, he is the suspect who is still at large, subject of an international manhunt. Briefly intercepted by French police after the Paris attacks, and then released. Well, Belgian investigators say the car he was traveling in from Paris was found here in this very neighborhood that his family lives in over the weekend after the Paris attacks. The Belgian federal prosecutors says that they are preparing for the worst-case scenario, as long as that man is still at large -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Absolutely. They are, after what happened here in Paris. It is incredible to hear what you heard this morning, Ivan, that 130 of these suspected jihadis they are having a hard time keeping an eye on, 130 of them. Imagine as that number grows.

Ivan Watson live for us there in Brussels this morning. Thank you very much.

Carol, I'll send it back to you in New York.

COSTELLO: All right. Thanks, Poppy.

Back here on American soil, authorities are ramping up security after new threats by ISIS. The terrorist group vowing to take aim at Washington, D.C. Police there now beefing up patrols and adding canine police dogs around the city.

CNN's Deborah Feyerick has been following this part of the story. Good morning.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning there, Carol. And you know, the FBI will tell you there is no specific credible threat. That's their language. But there is a threat. There is always a presumed threat. And that's really what they're guarding against right now.

ISIS and other terror groups are intent on hitting America. And a Web video that was released yesterday has members of ISIS threatening to attack the American stronghold, Washington D.C. And the CIA chief has acknowledged that yes, ISIS has a lethal external operations agenda. They are exporting terror and they're doing it by hitting the weak spots, the so-called soft targets like malls and restaurants and concert halls.

So many citizens are now doing what you would expect police to do in those cities. They are being extra vigilant. They are telling people to look for bags, look for other things. And they are increasing surveillance in certain areas. In Washington, D.C. the transit system is bringing K-9s, they are screening additional bags.

Earlier we spoke to Police Chief Cathy Lanier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF CATHY LANIER, METROPOLITAN POLICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: We've had a significant, you know, uptick in calls for suspicious activity and suspicious packages, and we respond to those accordingly. But that's exactly what we want from our community. So I think that's the direction we want to keep going. The use of our technology out here today in conjunction with our work with the community is really going to be the key for us to keeping the city safe. (END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: And, Carol, New York is taking it even one step further. The head of counterterrorism is very aggressive, taking very aggressive tactics. He's been in the federal government. They're training upwards of 500 tactical officers. They are going to be heavily armed with heavy assault rifle. They're going to be heavily armored. That means they're going to be wearing a lot of protective gear and they are also going to be highly trained. A hundred of those officers hit the streets yesterday.

And as we saw with Paris it is very easy to hit soft targets. You know they're very difficult to protect. So the question is, what do you protect? Even here in New York it is going to be a reactive measure. Not necessarily proactive. Proactive comes with real hard intelligence that you can look at it. Paris didn't get that warning even though there were certain signs. In retrospect, you can connect.

But a New York -- an NYPD official really told me it's a new paradigm. Look, America, we check bags going out of malls. In Israel, they check bags going into malls. And that's the question. Where is your checkpoint? And how are you going to tighten security at these so- called soft targets?

COSTELLO: All right. Deborah Feyerick, reporting for us. Thanks so much.

[09:15:01] Still to come in the NEWSROOM, dozens of governors say Syrian refugees are not welcome. So what would that mean for the White House's plan to accept 10,000 refugees into the United States?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Shameful and not American, sharp criticism from President Obama who slammed lawmakers pushing back on his plan to allow 10,000 Syrian refugees into the United States next year. The president's comments coming as governors in 27 states, more than half of the nation, say they oppose letting Syrian refugees into their states. All but one, New Hampshire have Republican governors.

Among them, New Jersey's Chris Christie. He spoke out to conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, FROM "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW")

HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HOST: The Syrian refugee policy, what would Chris Christie's policy be vis-a-vis, you know, there are hundreds of thousands of Syrians who would love to come to this United States. The president says let's bring in 10,000.

[09:20:01] I'm not sure what your policy is. What is it, Chris Christie?

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do not trust this administration to effectively vet the people who are proposed to be coming in, in order to protect the safety and security of the American people, so I would not permit them in.

HEWITT: What if they were orphans under the age of five?

CHRISTIE: You know, Hugh, we can come up with 18 different scenarios. The fact is that we need for appropriate vetting, and I don't think orphans under five should be admitted into the United States at this point.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Of course, that was kind of a loaded question pause you remember that emotional picture of the father holding his Syrian child dead in his arms after the child drowned while trying to escape Syria.

Here to talk about this and more, Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez of California.

Good morning.

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Americans are uneasy at the moment. Can the administration guarantee no terrorists will slip through the cracks?

SANCHEZ: Well, we can never guarantee anything to 100 percent. But I will tell you, sitting on the Homeland Security Committee and the Armed Services Committee, that both of those agencies do biometric searches, talk to other intel, take a look at families.

Seventy-five percent of the people who are trying or exiting are actually women and children. And I believe that we do a very thorough background investigation. And when we can't find the information we want, when there is a gap, we actually don't allow them in.

So, I just don't agree with Governor Christie that he -- that he doesn't trust this administration. First of all, this administration are civil servants, are people who do this regardless of who the president is.

COSTELLO: Well, Chris Christie isn't alone in his thoughts. Donald Trump sent out a tweet this morning saying quote, "refugees from Syria are now pouring into our great country. Who knows who they are? Some could be ISIS. Is our president insane?"

First of all, because, you know, I like facts, I want to present the big picture for my viewers. According to the U.S. State Department in fiscal 2013, only 36 refugees were allowed into the United States from Syria.

That said, President Obama is planning to allow 10,000 into the country next year. In light of what happened in Paris, should he do that? Or should the refugees coming from Syria be a trickle like it is now?

SANCHEZ: First of all, as you have noted this pouring in. They are not pouring in. There is a very extensive process by which refugees come into this country. In fact, usually, Congress has allotted a certain amount of slots and we never even get even through two-thirds of the way of the year and these types of refugees actually being allowed into the United States.

I happen to know a lot about refugees and resettlement into the United States because Orange County, California, where I represent, has always been a beacon of bringing people in, through our faith- based organizations and with our non-profits that are working there. So, I happen to know how difficult, arduous the project -- the program is in order for people to come in.

And let me tell you, taking 10,000 refugees. And I don't -- I don't even believe we have the process that will actually vet and bring 10,000 in. But that is a drop in the bucket compared to what we are seeing other countries like Germany and France and other European countries.

Remember that the very people who are leaving Syria are the strong ones, are the ones who have stayed on despite the fact that there would be a cafe bombing or a bus bombing. These are now people who are scared for their children's future because bombs are being dropped on them. Bombs are being dropped on them sometimes by us. Now by the Russians, by Assad, by ISIS.

They are just caught in the middle of what really is a nasty war.

COSTELLO: I do think -- I do think Americans understand that. But I think they are understandably concerned at this particular time in light of what happened in Paris.

I want you to listen to something Senator Cruz told Dana Bash about Syrian refugees. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: What about Muslims who are victims --

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

BASH: -- of the radical Islamic terrorists who are taking their religion and their hijacking it? What about protecting those people?

CRUZ: There is no doubt that millions of people are suffering from the rise of radical Islamic terrorism. Christians are suffering. Jews are suffering. And other Muslims are suffering. They are being prosecuted.

BASH: But you're saying Muslims shouldn't be allowed in the U.S.?

CRUZ: What I'm saying is Syrian Muslim refugees should be resettled in the Middle East, in majority Muslim countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. So, in other words, persecuted Christians and Jews should be allowed to come to the United States but not persecuted Muslims because it is too dangerous and they should be relocated in the Middle East where they are from.

[09:25:07] SANCHEZ: Well, first of all --

COSTELLO: Is that reasonable to you?

SANCHEZ: First of all, let's look at it from two angles. The first as Americans, that is a terrible thing to say that we will only allow Jews and Christians into our country and not Muslims. That is so un-American. I don't want to even spend more time on it.

But the second issue, that somehow these people should be resettled in Middle Eastern countries, well, what do you think is happening in Turkey? What do you think Jordan has absorbed in this? Lebanon, which is already been unstable, and yet they are taking these refugees. Or the northern portion of Iraq where there still is so much civil war and where these really the brunt of attack of ISIS has come.

So, there have been plenty of Middle Eastern countries who have taken these people in, whether they wanted to or whether they just flood into their country. So, these people are escaping something that is going on that is so terrible. It's mostly women and children. If they are to come to the United States, there is an extensive process and if we don't have -- if we're comfortable with the information, the intel, that we have on these people, they simply do not get into our country.

COSTELLO: All right. Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez of California -- thanks so much.

SANCHEZ: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come -- you're welcome.

Still to come to the NEWSROOM: Did Europe's porous borders make it easier to launch an attack in Paris than in the United States? And could it happen here? We'll talk about that, next.

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