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French ISIS Operative Heard on Video; German Stadium Evacuated During Threat; Cell Phone Found in Paris Attack Investigation. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 17, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] BRUNO TERTRAIS, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT & SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR STRATEGIC RESEARCH, PARIS: security experts were good enough to know immediately that this had been an ISIS act of terror and that it had been planned from Syria. This is interesting because it tells you a lot about the value of having prepared and the infiltrated the networks even though they were not able to prevent the attacks.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: So I want to get your reaction to something else we're being told. The chair of the House Homeland Security Committee, Mike McCaul, a Republican from Texas, says he believes that up to 20 people were involved in this. Obviously, we know of eight, maybe nine. But does 20 sound right to you?

STEFAN DE VRIES, FRENCH JOURNALIST: I'm not a security expert, but if the U.S. Senator knows this, why has this information not been exchanged? This is the heart of the problem of the terrorist threat. There are a lot of measures like the Patriot Act and billions of Euros are invested, but the main problem is exchange of information and analysis of information.

TAPPER: Not enough of it going on.

DE VRIES: No, not at all. This is new information to me. I hope the American forces are communicating with the French colleagues because this is essential information. I assume there is some exchange between the two services.

TAPPER: What do you think? Does 20 sound about right or what do you know?

TERTRAIS: It probably sounds right. I want to say something about intelligence sharing because immediately after the attacks, probably as early as Sunday, there was a French request going to the Pentagon and then to the White House a about more intel sharing from the American government. I can tell you that the response from the American government was immediate saying, yes, we're giving you the intelligence you need and that you didn't have to strike specific targets in Syria. This is very interesting because our European allies not being forthcoming in helping us, apart from the police networks in Europe, which do cooperate, but in terms of military intelligence, I can tell you that the U.S. was immediate and really forthcoming. TAPPER: You are the first journalist to arrive at the "Charlie Hebdo"

site in January when that horrific event happened. When I have spoken to the people of Paris in the last few days talking to them, immediately they talk about "Charlie Hebdo," immediately, they talk about that day, and reminding them, although, in many ways this is even more horrific just because of the sheer size of it.

DE VRIES: Absolutely, it's also in the same neighborhood. That makes it extra tragic actually. There's a huge difference between January and these attacks last week. In January, the targets were very clearly identified. It was a satirical weekly, a kosher supermarket, symbols of ideas, ideologies, clear targets. The attacks on Friday happened at places where people were just having fun, having a beer, listening to music, watching a soccer match. They were killed. In January, the attacks aimed at the head, the brains, at Paris, and the attacks on Friday were aimed at the heart of the body. It makes it completely different and maybe explained why Parisians are reacting very differently today than in January.

TAPPER: The government official in Belgium either today or yesterday stated the obvious, which is they have a problem with foreign fighters in that country. So many foreign fighters, so many extremists going from Belgium to Iraq and Syria, fighting, coming back and bringing back horrific ideas and ideologies. Does France have a similar problem?

TERTRAIS: Yes, we have a similar problem, but it's somewhat different. Belgium is at the heart of Europe. Brussels is a good base for terrorists because you can pretty much go everywhere from Belgium. The difference between maybe Paris and Brussels is that there are some neighborhoods near Brussels that everybody has been talking about in the last few days where there's a huge melting pot of nationalities and cultures, which make it very easy for terrorists to create and build their own networks. France has other problems in the suburbs that maybe that particular concentration should not come as a surprise that they operated from there.

[14:35:28] TAPPER: Very frightening dilemma.

Thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it, Stefan de Vries and Bruno Tertrais.

Next, more on our breaking news. A soccer stadium hosting a game between Germany and the Netherlands is being evacuated right now for a security scare. This, as France and England get ready to face-off in London after that game that was moved. That game is going to happen just minutes from now.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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TAPPER: Welcome back. We have some breaking news out of Germany right now. The Germany and Netherlands soccer match, which was supposed to be played, has been cancelled in Germany. Police in the town of Hanover have confirmed this to CNN. Max Foster joins me for more on the reasons for this it cancellation

and evacuation.

Max, what do you know?

[14:34:48] MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: We're waiting for a press conference that's had happening eminently. But the stadium was evacuated effectively. People were asked to clear it before the match started. We are now hearing from the state broadcaster NDR that serious explosions were planned for the stadium, so a very serious situation. They are quoting a local police chief, who will be speaking in the press conference. We're waiting, Jake, to get more information on that.

Germany playing France on Friday amid-that terrible tragedy there in Paris. This was their follow-up match and there were plans for an explosion according to the local police chief.

I'm here at Wembley, where France is playing England in their follow- up match. That's carrying on ahead. Massive security operation here. But in Hanover, Germany playing the Netherlands, it's been cancelled and it appears a very serious incident has been foiled by the police there.

TAPPER: Max Foster, thank you. We'll come back to you in a second.

I want to bring in our terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank.

Paul, Max Foster referring to a report from the police chief for the city telling Germany's public broadcaster that the reason for the stadium evacuation is that, quote, "There were serious plans for explosions." A press conference on the matter is eminent and we'll bring that as it happens.

But this is not uncommon, I would suppose, if this turns out -- and it's very early information and police do not have accurate information early on, nor do we. But if this was another terrorist plot, it's not that uncommon for terrorists to do one horrific thing and then another one right on top of it.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: That's absolutely right. These are unconfirmed reports. We have not confirmed this at CNN yet, but that disturbing report of some kind of potential terrorist plot against the stadium tonight. Just on Friday, there was the France and Germany game that was targeted. We'll have to see how this shakes out.

But certainly there's been concern about copy cot attacks by people inspired by what went down here in Paris on Friday. But also concern that it ISIS may have a wider conspiracy in the works here because they have recruited all sorts of Europeans. There are 700 Germans believed to have traveled to Syria and Iraq. They have been. Organizing these recruits into language blocks and have been teaching them how to launch attacks into various countries. They have been helping with funding and assistance and will view Germans as an enemy. Not clear what this is yet. It's very early stages. We sometimes find in these cases that the early reporting is wrong. People get wires crossed. But --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Or law enforcement is being extra cautious. Earlier today, I went to the Eiffel Tower because there was a bomb threat against the Eiffel Tower. It turns out it was a false alarm. You never know. Better safe than sorry is the motto of law enforcement.

CRUICKSHANK: Better safe than sorry. But yet, this idea that there are all these huge soccer games being played in Europe right now. We already know that one was very much the center piece of that ISIS plot against Paris. That was going to be the big spectacular, bigger than anything else they were planning because they were planning to get one of those into the stadium. When people rushed out in panic, the others would have detonated. That seems to have been the plan. There would have been awful carnage, many more dead. That failed. They weren't able to get in, so they weren't able to kill many people outside the stadium. But this new report tonight that the police chief saying there's some kind of major plot was thwarted, very concerning in the light after that.

TAPPER: Yeah. There were three suicide bombers at the Stade de France on Friday. They all three died. They killed one other person, but it could have been much worse. Francois Hollande, the president of France, was there. He was whisked away. We're told Angela Merkel, the chancellor of Germany, is supposed to be at this game that's being evacuated.

We're going to have -- I'll come right back to you, Paul, but we have to take a quick break. We'll have much more on the breaking story in just a minute. Stay with us.

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[14:48:39] TAPPER: Welcome back. I'm Jake Tapper, live in Paris, France.

There is a breaking news situation going on right now in the town of Hanover, in Germany. There was a soccer game between Germany and the Netherlands supposed to take place this evening. The stadium is being evacuated there. We're told the reason for this, according to a police chief in Lower Saxony, and Hanover is the capital there, the police chief is saying that the reason for this evacuation is, quote, "There were serious plans for explosions" at the stadium in Hanover at that soccer game between Germany and the Netherlands. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that ISIS attacked the stadium here in Paris, the Stade de France. There had sent three suicide bombers Friday. They killed one innocent person, killed themselves as well. But the president of France, Francois Hollande, was at that game. He was whisked to safety. It could have been much worse. It was horrific as it was, but it could have been much worse.

Now at this game, which we're told the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, was supposed to attend, it seems similar plans, a similar conspiracy were in play. We're going to get more information and bring that to you as soon as we get it. But that is the breaking news at this hour.

[14:50:13] Let's us turn back to France. Little is known about the two suicide bombers who were at the stadium here outside of Paris. But we know that one of them -- and this is big news in the United States -- one of them may have arrived here in the flow of refugees coming into Europe from Syria.

That news is alarming a lot of people throughout the world. But certainly in the United States where there's a lot of concern about whether there is sufficient vetting for the Syrian refugees coming to the United States. The speaker of the House of Representatives in the United States, Paul Ryan, today calling for a pause in this process. Though they don't have much authority in the matter, 29 governors of 29 states have said they will not allow Syrian refugees into their states.

One of those governors is from Florida. Republican Rick Scott joins me now.

Governor Scott, thank you for joining me.

You wrote a letter to congressional leaders asking them to defund the refugee programs. We know that there is a conference call this evening with governors and the White House. What are you hoping to hear? What do you intend on telling them?

RICK SCOTT, (R), FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Well, Jake, 129 people were murdered, including one American. We have all these individuals injured. We need to stop what we're doing. We need to learn what happened over there. I'm sure France thought they had vetted everybody well. Let's find out what's going on before we proceed with bringing 10,000 Syrian refugees to America. We know one of those in France, one of the terrorists, posed as a Syrian refugee. They are trying to bring 425 to Florida. I don't have the ability to stop them. Only the federal government does.

I've asked Speaker Ryan and Majority Leader McConnell to not allow federal dollars to going to moving refugees to Florida until we pause and find out what happened and make sure we're safe. I don't want any terrorists in my state. I'm responsible for 20 million Floridians. I want them to be safe.

TAPPER: Governor, I'm told that 123 Syrian nationals have been relocated to Florida since the civil war started a few years ago. Did those Syrian refugees in your state already make you feel unsafe?

SCOTT: You have to be very cautious. What's frustrating is we don't have a good partner in the federal government. They are not open with information. They are not helpful to provide us information when we say we have a concern. They don't say let's see how I can help your concern.

Right now, our hearts go out to those families in France. I had my daughter's in-laws in live in Paris. They were scared to death, if something happened to them. Let's stop for awhile and figure out what's going on and make

everybody comfortable. Then if it makes sense, we can proceed. But right now, I don't want another 425 refugees from Syria coming into Florida. I don't want any terrorists.

TAPPER: Certainly, nobody wants terrorists. How do you respond to the argument that President Obama made just yesterday where he pointed out that most of these refugees, if not all of them -- and we don't know certainly -- but most of them are individuals who are fleeing the terrorists as well. They are fleeing Assad. They are fleeing ISIS. They are Christian. They are Shia. They are Yazidis. How do you respond to that?

SCOTT: Jake, we're a state of tourism. We'll have over 100 million tourists. We're a state of immigration. We have 250 languages spoken in our state. We love people coming to our state. But we don't want one terrorist. We know that one of the terrorists from France posed as a Syrian refugee. We don't want any of those in Florida.

When something like this happens, why wouldn't you stop, say, what happened in France, what can we learn from that, what were their security measures, are ours different, so we make sure it doesn't happen in America. And I'm responsible for everybody in my state. I don't want anything to happen in my state.

TAPPER: Governor Rick Scott, thank you for your time. We appreciate it, sir.

SCOTT: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Breaking news in the investigation into the attacks here in Paris.

Justice correspondent, Evan Perez, joining me live now with new information about a cell phone.

Evan, what's the news?

[14:55:] EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Jake, investigators in Paris have recovered a cell phone at one of the scenes believed to belong to one of the attackers there in Paris. So this is a possible big break to help unravel the plot and the suspected network behind it. This is information we got from counterterrorism intelligence officials.

The phone contained a message sent some time before the attacks began to the effect of, "OK, we're ready." That's according to these officials that we have spoken to. There's a lot we don't know. For instance, who sent or received the message. And if it confirmed, this cell phone could provide a big clue into how the terrorists were able to synchronize their attacks. Investigators are still trying to exploit the data from the phone to try to determine who the attackers were in contact with, whether any of those people are still in Europe to be able to be found.

This information, we should make clear, doesn't quell the concerns among U.S. and European officials that the terrorists were perhaps using encryption technology to hide their plot. They have had a difficult time finding electronic traces of the attackers left behind. We know that U.S. and European officials have turned up evidence that some of the jihadis that are tied to these attackers in Paris use encryption in the past as well as other operational security methods such as they frequently change their cell phones, change their cars, and they even looked for possible listening devices -- Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Evan Perez, thanks.

A big issue of contention between national security officials and those who make encryption technology, whether or not to share that with national security officials.

Brooke Baldwin, let me go back to you now in New York City.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, I'll take it from here.

Jake Tapper, thank you so much. We'll see you at the top of 4:00 p.m. eastern for "The Lead."

We'll get you more information on the big news from Evan Perez on the cell phone.

Also happening, the soccer stadium hosting the Germany and Netherlands game, this stadium being evacuated for what authorities are saying was, quote, "a serious plan for explosions." All of this, as France and England are getting ready to face-off in London minutes from now.

Stay with me.

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