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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Russia Says Bomb Brought Down MetroJet; Source: ISIS Leaders May Have Planned Paris Attacks; Kerry Meeting with Hollande in Paris Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired November 17, 2015 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. And welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. We are live in Paris this morning. I'm Hala Gorani.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman.

We are following two major breaking news stories. We will get to the tragedy here in Paris in just a moment, but first, breaking news just in the last several minutes out of Russia.

GORANI: Now, Russian media are reporting that an explosion brought down MetroJet A-321 plane in Egypt, Sinai. Security officials determined that the plane showed signs of explosives, that a one kilogram bomb detonated aboard the aircraft that killed all 224 people on board.

[04:00:09] But the Russian president is also speaking today.

BERMAN: Yes, the Russian leader, we say Russian media, the Russian leader has said in the carefully staged media event that they do believe it was a one kilogram bomb on board that plane responsible. Of course, ISIS has claimed responsibility. U.S. and Western intelligence sources all point to ISIS right now.

I want to get to Matthew Chance who is in Moscow following these developments.

Matthew, explain to me how the Russian leader broke this news?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you often get this in Russia, instead of an announcement on state television or news, you get a meeting, a kind of staged briefing, this time between the president of Russia, Vladimir Putin, and head of his security services, Alexander Bortnikov. He's the head of the FSB, the successor organization to the KGB.

And Bortnikov was briefing the president on the latest of the investigation. He said to the president, look, we found that it was a homemade explosive device that was on board the plane with the equivalent of one kilogram of TNT. He said that that could account, that would account for the fact that fuselage of the MetroJet airliner had spread across such a wide area.

So, investigators have been covering an area, something in a region of 20 square miles to try and pick up the pieces of the fuselage. The FSB director said that was explained by the fact that it was a bomb, with one kilogram of TNT. Vladimir Putin obviously condemning it, vowing revenge, saying this, 'We will search for them, those responsible, everywhere, no matter where they are hiding. We will find them in any place on the planet and we will punish them."

So, this is the first time Russia acknowledged or confirmed that it was the bomb that downed that MetroJet airliner, killing all 224 people on board. And now, the Russian president is vowing to strike back.

GORANI: And, Matthew, how will that translate in Syria as far as Russia's aerial bombardment campaign is concerned?

CHANCE: Well, doubtlessly, it will lead to intensification of bombardment. It may also lead to further escalation of Russia's military presence inside Syria. Although the details of that we don't know yet. We're going to have to wait and see how the Russians choose to respond.

But it's interesting to me that Vladimir Putin said, you know, we will find them wherever they are on the planet, you know, no matter where they're hiding from us. We're going to find them. We're going to punish them.

So he has opened the possibility that Russia could, you know, take action against these individuals or groups whoever is responsible for this elsewhere outside of Syria as well. So, that is something that is, I think, also very new in the statement that's come out from Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, over the course of the past few minutes.

GORANI: Matthew Chance live in Moscow.

This breaking news is interesting because of Russian President Vladimir Putin saying essentially as Matthew was reporting there, anywhere in the world. I mean, could this extend outside of Syria?

BERMAN: It is fascinating to think because this bomb went off over Sinai, with an ISIS affiliate in Sinai.

Does this mean that Russia will get more involved with Egyptian policies? Does this mean that Egypt, by the way, will admit that it was a bomb that took down this plane? Because Egypt, so far, has been reluctant to say they suspect terrorism. This is a very big development this morning.

GORANI: I spoke to a high level official saying this is one theory among many. I think now, Western intelligence agencies have said it for days, Russia is now confirming it. We'll see how Egypt reacts. That's a good point.

BERMAN: And again, just to put a point on this, the last few weeks have seen an extraordinary development in the path of ISIS in general.

Now, blamed for planting this bomb to take down this Russian aircraft, the bombings in Beirut and what happened here in Paris, all very different types of attacks, all against very types of targets and so many nations involved.

GORANI: And here's the issue -- these are franchises of ISIS. Are they all under the direct command and control of ISIS in Raqqa or are other groups taking it upon themselves these bombings, these attacks perhaps in Sinai more independently from ISIS in Syria and Iraq? Those are all very important questions and they will determine going forward how countries who have been the targets of ISIS attacks will respond.

BERMAN: You know, how will the world responded and who will take the lead?

The French interior minister here says police have carried out 128 new searches overnight. That's on top of more than 150 the night before, investigators are trying to look for clues, trying to get to the bottom of what happened on Friday and the terror attack.

GORANI: And, by the way, I was going to say -- John, sorry to interrupt -- we are talking about increased police presence. We are seeing it here at Place de la Republique.

BERMAN: Much more today than we've seen in the last few days.

GORANI: Absolutely. The government in fact is announcing the mobilization of 115,000 police Gendarme soldiers across the country to help in the investigation.

[04:05:04] BERMAN: Authorities now say they believe they know who the mastermind behind this attack, a man named Abdelhamid Abaaoud, who is from Belgium, a Belgian citizen who they think has direct ties to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi.

French President Francois Hollande says Friday's attacks, he believes they were planned in Syria, organized in Belgium.

GORANI: All right. Meanwhile, France has launched more airstrikes on ISIS targets in the group's self declared capital. The defense ministry says 10 planes dropped 16 bombs on Raqqa, Syria, on Tuesday and also, John, France is deploying aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle to the Syrian coast via the eastern Mediterranean and the Suez Canal to assist in the air campaign. This deployment was planned before the attacks. It was precipitated after the terrorists --

BERMAN: And I think it will be -- this aircraft carrier will get a lot of use, a lot more use than previously planned. As we said, though, there are new developments in the investigation in and around Paris.

We are joined by senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen.

Fred, you have been to a neighborhood where there was a great deal of activity perhaps the week leading up to this attack.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Great deal of activity in the week leading up to this attack, and this is the district of Bobigny, which is just to the northeast of Paris. It's sort of a working class neighborhood.

But it also has a lot of, you know, disenfranchised, disillusioned youth that you meet on the streets. It seems as though in that neighborhood, the attackers that did all this here on Friday, rented an apartment in the week, for a week leading up to these attacks where it seems some of the plotting, some of the planning, some of the preparation for all this appeared to have been going.

The interesting thing is the person who rented that apartment is the brother of the man who is now being sought all over Europe, Salah Abdeslam. His brother Ibrahim Abdeslam is the one who apparently rented that apartment, and he, of course, was also one of the attackers who killed many people and eventually himself with the suicide vest on Friday.

GORANI: And we were discussing earlier the idea that once you determined what apartment flat was rented, that you can kind of sort of walk this back all the way to the source of the financing. At some point, you either use a check or some sort of card. You know, you have to give some sort of financial identification.

PLEITGEN: Financial identification, and also personal information, because I mean -- you know, in order to get an apartment in a Western European country, you need some official documentation. So, there is a lot that the authorities hope to glean from all this. But, of course, the question is, if you have a bunch of guys or one guy who has links to extremist groups, you know, some of these people have been to Syria --

GORANI: Six of the eight.

PLEITGEN: -- how it was able for someone like that to be able to get an apartment in Paris, probably smuggle some of the explosives and AK- 47s into that apartment without the authorities here learning anything about this.

BERMAN: Six of the eight in Syria. Then they believe it was further organized in Belgium and week before renting this apartment in this neighborhood.

Fred, any sense of what they are doing inside this apartment right now, looking for forensic clues, wore these vests made there?

PLEITGEN: Yes. They are looking for forensic clues inside the apartment, not only there, but also another apartment, because one of the other attackers was also from that neighborhood. Just a couple of blocks down the road, Sami Amimour. That apartment is also being searched.

I was on the scene there yesterday. There is a lot of police there. The place is cordoned off. Police teams are going through there.

Of course, not only search for clues as far as traces of explosives, but also seeing whether anything was left behind, whether or not in his apartment, there might be a computer or something that could show the communications that took place. But I think that's one of the things that really bothers the investigators here is they had no clue apparently about the communications of these people and even retrospect, even U.S. sources are saying they can't really piece together what the communications were. One of the things that the French announced side from the fact they are putting an extra 115,000 law enforcement personnel and military on the ground, is that they also want to invest heavily in ways to combat this electronic communication that's going on.

GORANI: Lastly, I want to ask you. Of course, authorities are saying we need to monitor encrypt communications better, but the parents of one of the suspects actually went to the authorities and said, we're concerned our son is radicalized. So, it's hard for them to say we had no clue.

PLEITGEN: It is hard for them to say we had no clue. It's hard for them to say all of this was only done by encrypted information, and that's why all this happened.

It seems as though in the case of Sami Amimour, that the writing was more than on the wall. He was known to French law enforcement from 2012. He tried to travel to Yemen at that point. He was prevented by law enforcement from doing so.

He violated the terms of the surveillance that they put on him. They wanted to put him in jail. Instead, he went to Syria. His mother went to the mayor of Drancy and complained and said my son has been radicalized. Please help me. The mayor of Drancy says authorities did absolutely nothing.

And then his father even traveled to Syria and tried to get his son back, but failed.

[04:10:03] So, of course, the family is absolutely shocked. They are in custody as well answering questions.

But the big question is also, could all of this have been prevented if someone had listened to the parents?

BERMAN: You can't get more information than that.

GORANI: Right.

BERMAN: You cannot get more than the parents and the family saying our son is radicalized.

PLEITGEN: That is what people keep saying. There are folks who have criticized the Muslim community in countries like this. Why don't you tell authorities when you see something? They are doing that. There are people who are coming forward and it's difficult to tell the police that a family member of yours might be committing a crime. But these people did that.

GORANI: All right. We are going to follow that angle and many others with our Fred Pleitgen.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in the Iraqi city of Irbil and he joins us now with the very latest on the French airstrikes and the deployment of that aircraft carrier to the region.

Nick, tell us about the impact of the French air strikes on ISIS targets might have on the terrorist group.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, it is the second night in a row the French war planes have been hitting the caliphate of Raqqa. Now, we don't know what they hit.

Last night, we know at 10:00 local time, the first explosion was reported by activists called Raqqa is Slaughtered Silently, pretty reliable information they give. They have been insisting since that of the seven air strikes of last night and 24 they counted the night before last, no civilians have been killed. The targets which appear to be about the night before last around the outskirts and city center and in the center with the stadium and museum, basically headquarters and jails, last night, the seven that went in appear to be predominantly to the south of the city.

We await to hear more information about precisely what they were trying to hit. Other activists suggesting potentially airstrikes as well. Obviously, there are the potential particularly given the events in Moscow for three or four air forces to be involved, coalition, U.S., French, maybe the Russians and Syrian regime who don't really focus their efforts against the ISIS. That is a separate debate.

But the French boosting capacity by sending Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier to the eastern Mediterranean. That does give them a much greater launch capacity against Raqqa. They do appear to be very much keen to send the political and military match that they will strike Raqqa and ISIS quite in the heart of their self declared caliphate. But we are still awaiting in the hours to see exactly what was hit ISIS into months of experience dodging drones and airstrikes.

Warnings put out over the streets inside the Raqqa. So, ISIS fighters can move around undetected. They appear to stay out of the daylight. It is still the fate of civilians, those left or trapped inside Raqqa because ISIS went let them go. That's the big concern now -- Hala.

BERMAN: It is interesting to see the French aircraft carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, which is already headed to the area. But now, you know, deployed in the wake of what happened here in Paris.

Nick, what kind of increased capabilities does that give France? Up until this point, these airstrikes launched from UAE and Qatar mostly, and as well as a trend, right, because the U.S. is moving its aircraft ever closer to Syria as well.

WALSH: Well, the U.S. has the ability to use the Incirlik Air Base. And when they were able to do that, they heralded the massively reduced flight time where they could be basically in the air longer

and refuel and cycle jets around a lot faster. A similar capability you'll get from Charles de Gaulle being in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Yes, it is just one landing strip for jets to take on and limits the kind of aircraft you can fly. It puts them closer to refuel and cycle up in the sky and reduces the flight time from Jordan and the UAE. UAE far away, a number of hours. That is significantly increases the potential for the French to keep jets above the sky.

We have to see, though, in the weeks ahead whether we are looking at a long term French mission here to degrade ISIS. That they wish to see the job through or if we have seen in the past, this is much more about satisfying the visceral need with some kind of vengeance on the ground. That's the key question that will be answered to, but we have now these high level meetings between the Americans, the Russians, the French. This sense that perhaps what happened in Paris may mark a moment where the bickering to undermine ISIS to be set aside now that Russia seems frankly to finally admit it was ISIS or a bomb that brought down the jet in the Sinai. Does this herald a new moment? It is time to cooperate against ISIS or will there be more chinks to iron out in the days and weeks ahead -- John.

GORANI: Nick Paton Walsh in Irbil, Iraq -- thanks very much.

Nick also brought up the important point that there are civilians trapped in Raqqa. There are civilians in these bombardment zones as well. I can only imagine the terror they are going through. A complex situation in Syria with so many countries involved militarily with very different strategic interests as well.

[04:15:02] BERMAN: It will only increase the refugee problem from that country, 4 million and counting.

GORANI: You are watching CNN. Thanks for being with us. Our special coverage continues.

The attacks in Paris have sparked a renewed push to combat ISIS. After the break, we will look at how the U.K. is stepping up its own efforts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Welcome back to Paris. I'm John Berman along with Hala Gorani in the Place de la Republique.

As France picks up the pieces and you can see a beautiful picture of the Eiffel Tower overnight here, lit up in the tri-colors. This was stunning. People gather all around to look at the Eiffel Tower, and I can tell you it was emotional. I saw people with tears in their eyes as they gazed at that lit up as I have never seen before.

GORANI: Right. And it was all the more poignant, because for several days, the Eiffel Tower went dark. Usually (INAUDIBLE) every hour on the hour until 1:00 a.m. And here you have it the colors of the French flag.

The monument is open to tourists again, by the way. If you happen to be Paris and watching us, head over to the Eiffel Tower. And Paris says it will be lit up in the colors of the tri-color, the French flag, on Tuesday and Wednesday.

BERMAN: Amazing to see.

GORANI: All right. Let's bring in Julien Theron.

[04:20:00] He's here to discuss the latest on the investigation into the Paris attacks. He's a political scientists and analysts at the University of Versailles.

Thanks for being with us.

JULIEN THERON, POLITICAL SCIENTIST & ANALYST, UNIVERSITY OF VERSAILLES: Thank you.

GORANI: OK. So, let's talk a little bit about France's reaction to these attacks.

The French President Francois Hollande has basically gone on the war path essentially. We are at war. We will strike back. They are sending the Charles de Gaulle early. They're intensifying their airstrikes.

This is something -- did you expect this reaction?

THERON: Yes, it's not abnormal that we hit directly Daesh at the center, in their so-called capital of Raqqa.

But the idea is also to reassure the nation and that's why the parliament was actually all together united in the special congress. Then, actually to propose some solution of the international scene. But it's still a little bit blurry. So, we don't have a full strategy regarding the internal scene, the European cooperation on terror and regarding to foreign actions in Middle East.

BERMAN: It is complicated. It's he war in Syria right now. There's really a war on the streets here in Paris with ISIS striking here. There's also a war on the Internet. It is fought at all these levels.

How much do you think -- how much more power does the French government need here to battle ISIS within this country?

THERON: I think it's not exactly a question of intensity of power, special types or these kinds of things. I think it is a question of appropriate powers and a good strategy to do so. What does it mean? You said that regarding the internet, the fight against radicalization in the suburbs. You know, we have trouble of social integration from the foreign population originally coming.

But also regarding to finance, the fight against Daesh for instance, because they do have a lot of money, so we have to fight against that.

And regarding the military, I think the military it's an essential part of a fight against this group, but that we have to know what

could be the most efficient, more bombs will not bring any kind of solution. Saying that, the U.S. and France together in Afghanistan, it did not reduce much in power. They are still there and they (INAUDIBLE) long time ago.

GORANI: We know aerial bombardment campaigns have their major limitations. We saw it with Libya where the aerial bombardment campaign allowed the opposition to essentially pushed back any kind of Moammar Gadhafi assault on the east. But after that, it was chaos. So, really at some point, do you foresee a time in Syria it will be inevitable that the military involvement will go beyond the air campaign?

THERON: I think it is already the case. I think we should have done something regarding to that a long time ago. So, does it mean an international coalition like the war in Iraq? It might be the case.

GORANI: That didn't work either.

THERON: In Iraq. Like in 1991.

GORANI: OK. I see. The first Iraq war.

THERON: International massive coalition, nothing can resist it like we did with Saddam Hussein in 1991.

(CROSSTALK)

THERON: It might be a good idea. Otherwise, we have to go on-site. Meaning that we have to find agreement between the democratic forces and the Syrian regime and get together with the political transition. The question is what do we put in place instead of Daish? Well, the Sunni areas, they won't accept the return of Bashar al Assad. So, we definitely have to find a political solution.

BERMAN: That's what President Obama said yesterday. We could sent in 50,000 to take Raqqa, but what then? What after?

THERON: I mean, the precise mistake we have done in Libya, we did not plan anything for after. The state did not exist in Libya. The so- called supreme guide of Libya, Moammar Gadhafi, actually was ruling alone, and using tribes to govern. There was no state.

GORANI: No state structure.

THERON: There was a state in Syria, but now it is completely distracted by the revolution. So, we definitely have to find first a political solution and then to implement military action, sufficiently massive to go on, but it's for sure, the airstrikes themselves won't be sufficient.

GORANI: Great analysis. Julien Theron, thank you very much. We appreciate having you on the program this morning.

BERMAN: All right. Other news from other parts of the world now. In Britain, an additional 1,900 spies to help fight ISIS. The British Prime Minister David Cameron says the U.K. will increase military spending by $3 billion over the next five years.

GORANI: Well, it also comes to more than double the amount it spends checking security at foreign airports.

Let's get more from Diana Magnay. She joins us now from London with more on what's going on in the U.K. -- Diana.

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Hala.

Well, David Cameron outlined this $3 billion in extra spending that is going to go to hard military power, he said. So, doubling the fleet of drones that the U.K. has, spending more money on attack aircraft, investing in special forces abroad. He outlined a major speech last night coming back from the G20 Summit in Turkey and said this kind of threat -- with this kind of threat, you don't protect people by sitting around and wishing for a better world.

[04:25:11] You have to be prepared to act and to use military force where necessary. And also the chancellor will make a major speech on cyber security today, too, Hala.

BERMAN: All right, Diana. Diana, hang on one second.

The U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry just finished a meeting with French President Francois Hollande. You see the secretary of state emerging right now coming to the microphone. Let's listen in.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Let me just say that I express the condolences of President Obama and the people of the United States to President Hollande and thanked him for the extraordinary response of the French people, the courage that they have exhibited. We talked about the significant steps that we believe we can take together in a number of different areas to increase our efforts and be more effective even against Daish.

And we already are doing that. President Hollande will be visiting Washington in a week. The presidents will meet. We will have further discussions.

But we are absolutely committed to increasing our efforts in every degree possible, and thoughtfully, carefully. My sense is everybody understands that with Lebanon's attacks, with what's happened in Egypt, with Ankara, Turkey, with the attacks now in Paris, we have to step up our efforts to hit them at the core where they're planning these things and also obviously to do more on borders in terms of the movement of people.

But the level of cooperation could not be higher. We've agreed to exchange more information and I'm convinced that over the course of the next weeks, Daish will feel greater pressure. They are feeling it today. They felt it yesterday. They felt it in the past weeks.

We gained more territory. Daish has less territory. We have taken out leaders. We liberated certain communities. Tikrit, Beiji refinery, communities in Syria, the three quarters of the border of the Syrian border is now under control, is taken away from Daish. We will be working with Turkey to close the last portion.

So, there is a clear strategy in place and step by step, I'm confident the momentum will pick up. So, I thank you all and particularly again, I'm confident that over the next days, Paris which knows how to rebound, will do so.

I look forward to being back here for the COP21 with President Obama and I will stay longer. And I think that will be an important statement by the world that no one will interrupt the business of the global community, certainly not despicable, cowardly acts of terror.

Thank you all very much. Thank you.

BERMAN: Secretary of State John Kerry after a meeting with French President Francois Hollande.

We learned two things there. One, the secretary of state announced the French leader will travel to the United States next week to meet with President Obama to discuss ISIS. I did not believe we knew that before. I think that is an announcement.

GORANI: I have not heard it.

BERMAN: He also at the end indicated that he and the president will be coming back to France in two weeks for this summit that was expected on climate change. I think we knew that would happen, but official recognition.

GORANI: So, this is the COP21 climate change conference. It starts at very end of November. Heads of state are scheduled to arrive the first two days of December.

So, there were calls by some to postpone it. It was too dangerous. The situation was too tense in Paris, because this is not a small summit. This is tens of thousands of delegates who will be arriving in Paris over several days. And the actual summit itself is two weeks long. The heads of state portion of it is only, I believe, 48 hours.

Now, we are hearing reports there may be some of the events, sideline events of COP21 will be either modified or will be scaled back, so there may be some impact on this summit itself.

BERMAN: But very interesting that the French leader will travel, will leave France next week in the midst of this to meet with President Obama in Washington.

I imagine those very important high profile meetings on ISIS. I'm also be curious to see if other world leaders attend that meeting.

GORANI: I am as well, actually. I'm interested in seeing if the heads of state portion of the summit will be scaled back to one day as opposed to two. I think all that will become clearer over the next few days.