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French Raids; ISIS Claiming Jet Bombing. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 18, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:20] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin here in Washington today. This is CNN's special coverage of new and deadly raids in the aftermath of the attacks in Paris.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jake Tapper here in Paris, France, a city that may have just avoided more bloodshed. French police here carrying out an hour-long military-style assault on two suburban apartments seen in cameras capturing the sounds as police stormed in just a couple of blocks away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, and an explosion has just gone off. This is still very much an ongoing operation. That was quite a large explosion in that direction. A second one now. Just hold on. No gunfire that we can tell so far. A third explosion. Fourth. That was much larger. Police asking them to move back. There are a number of military soldiers that are now being moved into the front as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We're told that wiretaps led French police to this alleged terrorist cell that, we're told, had an imminent plan of attack, intercepting, quote, "just in time" authorities say. We still do not know whether Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the suspected ringleader of the horrific terrorist attacks on Friday night, was in fact inside one of those apartments. The prosecutor saying he is not in custody. But if he was killed, well, that we still do not know. State television in Belgium says a woman who blew herself up as the French commandos moved in was his cousin.

Thousands of miles away, French war planes today launching new attacks on ISIS command centers in Syria, as an ISIS magazine claims it was indeed their terrorists who brought down that Russian jet just a few weeks ago in late October, publishing a photograph of what they say was the bomb. The IED, in this case, according to ISIS, is a soda can and some kind of simple detonation device. That is, if you believe these claims from ISIS.

Let's bring in Nic Robertson, CNN's senior international correspondent.

Nic, our Carly - Clarissa Ward actually climbed on to a rooftop close to where you are in Saint-Denis where she was able to see this raided apartment. Let me play a bit of that now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We've managed to get onto a rooftop here from which we can see the building behind me. I'm just going to duck out so that we can push in and take a look at that apartment building that was the focus of these raids. We can see forensic experts have been moving around inside those rooms. They've been taking photographs. And you can see the aftermath of those blasts that were heard. All the windows have been blown out. You can see the pock marks of heavy weaponry around those windows.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Nic, the prosecutor just said that neither Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the ringleader, or the terrorist fugitive Salah Abdelsalam were taken into custody. But we are still not sure whether or not they were killed in the raid. Is that right?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, we know from the prosecutor now that two people were killed. And we understand that one of them was a woman. So it does leave it open that one of the - that the other person killed was a man and it leaves it open that it could be Abaaoud. What the prosecutor said was that it's current - the state of the building, the physical state of the building, makes it very difficult, very dangerous to work inside of. And at the moment, they're still determining the identities of those - of the bodies inside there. It's too soon to say that, he said.

In the last few minutes here, Jake, we heard a controlled explosion. The police continue, even after nightfall now, continue to go through that building. So it does certainly seem to stand that what the prosecutor said is that they don't have freedom of movement there yet. So the process of identifying those two bodies could perhaps take some more time. And until that happens, I don't think we're going to be quite clear on who was killed and whether or not Abaaoud is still out on the loose.

Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nic Robertson in Saint-Denis, the neighborhood where this raid took place - took place this morning.

Two of the suspects captured in these dramatic overnight raids earlier today we're told are being treated at a hospital just outside of Paris. Poppy Harlow is joining me now here on set.

[14:05:02] Poppy, you were at that hospital earlier. What can you tell us?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you the moment that we pulled up in our taxi, we were greeted within seconds by a police officer with an assault rifle, Jake. He would not let the taxi stop. They ushered us out, keep moving, pushed us across the street. They wouldn't tell us any details. But what we do know, according to BFM, our affiliate on the ground here, two message that were arrested in that raid were taken to this hospital, both had wounds to their arms, both went into surgery. One, a few hours later, 1:00 p.m. local time, was taken away with armored vehicles, with police. You can imagine the escorts, presumably to be interrogated. The other one, we were told, still in surgery from BFM at the time. Not clear how bad the extent of their wounds is.

The critical part here, as you know, keep them alive, get them to talk. What will they say? Will they talk? Will they talk about how big this web is, how big the ring is? Will they talk about where the next target might be? That's the big question. Who those two men are, we do not know. As you were saying at the top, not in custody, the one who's on the run and the ringleader, were they injured? We don't know at this point in time.

TAPPER: It really is amazing that when you think about it that there were 10 individuals in these apartments, only two dead and one of them -

HARLOW: Yes. And they blew up the floor. I mean the floor collapsed (INAUDIBLE) the apartment.

TAPPER: Right. No, I was there earlier and it's - there's so much damage done to the - to the apartments, as you can tell from Clarissa's stand-up earlier.

HARLOW: Right.

TAPPER: The fact that 80 percent of them lived through this and only one of them - one of them who died did it to herself apparently.

HARLOW: It's astonishing. Killed herself. But also what I think is fascinating, Jake, is the - the familial connections. The family connections here. Not only the three brothers with the one still on the run, but now we know that this woman as the cousin of the ringleader, who remember not even 30 years old. These are young people. And the ringleader is someone who just, 14 months ago, was apparently not very high up in ISISs' ladder, if you will. And now being called the ringleader, at least of this attack, connected to the train attack a few months ago, and the fact that now we know the one woman was his cousin, also that she apparently blew herself up. This attack Friday, the first time they've had suicide vests involved in a terrorist attack in France. So a lot of firsts.

TAPPER: Yes. A lot of people here - I've been talking to the people here, French people, who are now worried. They're talking about the kinds of suicide bombing attacks that you see in the Middle East -

HARLOW: Absolutely.

TAPPER: As a - on a regular basis in Iraq, in Syria, occasionally recently in Lebanon, now happening in Paris, France. Very chilling.

HARLOW: But these are - this is Paris.

TAPPER: Yes.

HARLOW: I mean this is sort of the epicenter - one of the epicenters of Europe.

TAPPER: Right.

HARLOW: You know, we talk a lot about New York City, the U.K., Paris, it's so foreign to them and they keep telling me, so many people, we don't want to be scared, but we are because this has happened twice in ten months.

TAPPER: Yes. Poppy Harlow, thanks so much.

I want to talk more about these raids and the men and perhaps women that may still be at large. Joining me now, CNN producer Tim Lister.

Tim, what more do we know about this ringleader? Why do authorities think he was the man in charge?

TIM LISTER, CNN PRODUCER: Because he's had, Jake, a long role in attempting to carry out attacks in Europe. At least four this year alone, including directing a cell in Belgium that was broken up in January. And I think the fear of investigators is that that cell in Belgium wasn't entirely dismantled. The there was still a few left over and the remnants of that cell may well be behind this bloc because of the very strong Belgium connection here and, of course, Abdelhamid Abaaoud himself is Belgium. He spent time in jail with one of the leaders of last week's attack, the man who, in fact, is still on the run. So I think there's considerable concern that if Abaaoud has not been killed today, and we still don't know that, that he may have other groups, other units in France and in Belgium who are ready to take action, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Tim, the authorities said in a press conference just minutes ago that they believe there were three coordinated teams of terrorists who committed the attacks in Paris on Friday. Now, we were also told that intercepted telephone communications led to this morning's raid in Saint-Denis. What more do we know about the ties that these two terror cells may have had to one another?

LISTER: Not a lot at the moment. And I think that's what French investigators are going to be concentrating on with the eight people that have been arrested. Particularly an interesting remark from the Paris prosecutor in that news conference just an hour ago was that the man who owned this apartment, who rented it out to the group that came to stay about a week ago, knew the leader of the group. So you have the possibility here of a support network that knew whether Abaaoud or whether it was someone else, but they were tied into this larger group. So although there's not much yet proven in the way of links between Friday's attackers and the group that was there today, I'm sure investigators will think that that is highly likely.

[14:10:12] And, of course, Abaaoud, his female cousin was amongst those who was killed today. That, for him, is going to probably motivate him to continue and to accelerate these attacks across France, Belgium, unless he is inside that apartment that has been so wrecked by this morning's gun fight, which went on for more than an hour. And investigators say that inside it's an unbelievable mess. It's very difficult to even suspect that there's a body there. There's just body parts and flesh. It's going to be very difficult for them to establish whether Abaaoud is that man who is lying in that apartment or whether he's still on the run and able to coordinate further attacks, Jake.

TAPPER: Yes, I saw - I was there earlier at the site of the apartment and you could see through the window, through the shot we're showing to our viewers right now, you can see police forensic teams clad head to toe trying to make sense of the wreckage before them.

Tim, is there any further clarity on the question of how much of these horrific Paris attacks from five days ago, how much they were actually planned and directed from ISIS leaders in Syria?

LISTER: I think that's a huge question. What we got the sense of in investigating this and previous attacks is that ISIS likes to almost subcontract some of its work, especially in the field of foreign attacks. We know that French and Belgium fighters very much hang out together in Syria. They work together on the battle front. They plant together. So there is this possibility that a French network that is - involves Abaaoud but also involves another man, perhaps more important than Abaaoud, and that is the guy called Fabien Clain, who's been around a long time in the jihadist team (ph). He is in Syria. He is the voice behind the ISIS videos. If he is still active, then there's the likelihood that further attacks can be launched on Europe.

But all the signs are with this plot is that ISIS had opened a new front. That it has decided to take the war to Europe. We know that six of the Friday attackers had been to Syria. We know Fabien Clain was very quick on Saturday morning to acknowledge and claim the responsibility for that attack. So it looks like more than ever before ISIS is directing, at least in principle if not the details, of the operation these raids, these attacks in Europe.

TAPPER: All right, Tim Lister, thank you so much.

Brooke, back to you in Washington.

BALDWIN: All right, Jake Tapper, thank you. And we'll get back to you in Paris in just a moment.

But also what we're covering today, these disturbing new claims that ISIS used a soda can bomb - here's the picture - to take down that Russian passenger jet as they say leading to the deaths of 219 Russians and five other crusaders. We'll talk to an explosives expert coming up live.

Plus, as the global manhunt escalates, CNN is live inside Syria where authorities at one point believe the ringleader could be.

And you will see how the raid unfolded live on CNN in the overnight hours there in Paris, the moments of explosions, the gunfire. Do not miss this. This is CNN's special live coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very unusual that they were moving in the crowd here looking for something and have now moved down the street. You can still see one of them here still operating. They're showing their photo to - oh, and an explosion has just gone off. This is still very much an ongoing operation. That was quite a large explosion in that direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:56] BALDWIN: All right, you are watching CNN's special live coverage of the attacks in Paris. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

As this manhunt for the ringleader and other terrorists are underway, we are getting some breaking news right now as far as what ISIS claims to be the actual bomb that brought down that Russian passenger plane over Egypt's Sinai Peninsula. So, you see the pictures here on CNN. This is what ISIS says the wiring you see here apparently they say was stuffed inside that soda can, turning the can essentially into an IED, an improvised explosive device. And this is what the terror group claims brought down that Russian passenger jet over Egypt last month, killing all 224 people on board. This picture was just published in the latest edition of this ISIS online propaganda magazine.

So, let me bring in two important voices to talk more about this. I have our CNN correspondent Ian Lee, who is live in Cairo, and Anthony May is back with us today. He's a retired ATF explosives officer and security and explosives consultant.

So, thank you both for being with me.

And, Ian, before we get to the point that ISIS is saying, you know, that Russia wasn't the intended initial target, the pictures here, I mean not only did they come forward and immediately claim responsibility, but now they're saying, hey, this is how we pulled it off allegedly.

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And it took some time for them to come out and show this picture of what they said brought down the plane. And it is an innocuous can of soda that explosives experts say could hold roughly a pound of explosive. You have the detonator and you also have the switch. A pretty primitive device that could bring down a plane.

Now, the one thing, though, that is very concerning is, in this magazine, ISIS says that the initial target was a plane belonging to their, quote, American-led western coalition. They were trying to bring down a plane that could belong to the United States or any one of their partners that are bombing ISIS in Syria. They're also saying that they switched their target to the Russian plane only after Russia started bombing ISIS targets inside Syria.

[14:20:10] Now, we do not know if this is the genuine bomb. It does raise a lot of safety concerns, but it also could be ISIS trying to get investigators off their scent, trying to distract them. We're going to wait to see if they can find any evidence of this bomb, but according to one explosive expert who told CNN that this sort of bomb would be detonated by someone on the plane. So a suicide mission, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Ian, stay with me.

Anthony, I mean, when I first saw this picture today - and you are the expert here - how could this soda can and what could be placed inside of this soda can take down a massive passenger plane?

ANTHONY MAY, RETIRED ATF EXPLOSIVES ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Good afternoon, Brooke. You know, it doesn't take much to bring down a plane in flight if it's placed in the most critical area of the aircraft breaking the fuselage. However, doing a forensic analysis of just the photograph, looking at the components that they presented to us, this device, the can contains a white substance. You see that whole in the bottom of the can. That would be where the detonator - we're moving from the photograph from the left to the right.

BALDWIN: Yes.

MAY: That hole demonstrates a - or shows a white substance. Now, that white substance could be the explosive component, possibly TATP, most like probably a plastic type explosives. The detonator, which is the second item from the left there, would be inserted in that hole. And then the item, which concerns me, is that switch, which is the item on the far right. That's a single throw rocker switch with possibly a 9 volt battery attached to it wrapped up in the tape. You can't see the 9 volt battery. With the two LED lights, the red and the green light. And then that wire that kind of sticks up to the top. With just these components as demonstrated, an individual would have to initiate this device, meaning this device is in a suicide type bomb, initiated by the bomber himself by simply throwing the switch once everything is all hooked up.

BALDWIN: I see. I'm looking at this now. I've seen this image multiple times. But again, to underscore your point, on the far right, you see that switch almost like an on/off power switch and so you're saying someone would have had to typically (ph) flip the switch to deploy this bomb.

MAY: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Interesting language and, again, check the source, this is ISIS coming out of this online propaganda magazine. But they say it was 219 Russians and five other crusaders who were killed. They call them crusaders.

MAY: Right.

BALDWIN: And number them at five.

My other follow-up for you - and we still don't know yet whether this was an inside job, you know, someone on the inside at the Sharm airport, or if this just simply passed through security. They say in this magazine, after having discovered a way to compromise the security at the Sharm el Sheikh International Airport, you know, they went on to take this plane down. Is this the kind of thing - I don't know how familiar you are with this airport - that could pass through security?

MAY: Well, let's be clear, the "Inspire" magazine, they have a design for - they call it the hidden bomb. It's designed -

BALDWIN: It's not "Inspire," it's "Dabiq." (ph). That's al Qaeda. This is ISIS.

MAY: Right. OK, I'm sorry. The - but this type of device right here has a large metal signature to it.

BALDWIN: Ah-ha.

MAY: Any typical protocol, security protocol, should detect this, via the metal detectors, via the x-rays. However, even with that said, it's not unlikely or impossible to separate these components and an individual carry a separate component through security and then assemble the device on the other side or, most likely, an insider threat, you know, getting this item, circumventing security, getting it to the aircraft.

BALDWIN: Exploiting a security flaw.

MAY: If it was used on the aircraft.

BALDWIN: Yes, yes, exploiting a security flaw in the airport. That's the way ISIS puts it. Again, we checked the source, but this is what they're putting out there for the world to see. Anthony May, thank you again today so much.

MAY: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, authorities working to identify the two people killed in this Paris suburb during a massive police raid this morning. We heard from the prosecutor just a little while ago, gunfire for basically an hour. Is the ringleader of the Paris attacks among the dead? More on our breaking news from Paris, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:29:00] TAPPER: Welcome back. I'm Jake Tapper, live in Paris, France. This is CNN's special coverage of the city that authorities here say dodged another major terrorist attack today, just five days after the coordinated assaults that killed 129 people, wounding hundreds more. French police sources say teams arrived, quote, "right in time," unquote, as they raided two apartments on the same street in Saint-Denis, a suburb north of Paris. It was a major operation, police say, one that led to the arrests of eight suspects, another two were killed, one by police sniper, the second blew herself up by detonating her suicide belt, police say. Belgium broadcaster RTBF says the woman killed, who killed herself, is the cousin of this man, the ringleader of Friday's tacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud. I spoke with a woman who lives nearby this police raid.

[14:30:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN PETIET, WITNESS: I heard the burst of gunfire around 4:30 in the morning and followed by, like, bomb, bomb. So I think it was grenades, one after the other. It was horrible, just horrible (ph).