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Terror Investigation Continues; More Details about the Suspects. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 18, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:15]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin here in Washington today. We are back with CNN's special live coverage of new and extraordinary developments here in the wake of those deadly string of attacks in Paris.

But, first, I want to go to my colleague Chris Cuomo live in Paris with some breaking news -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's get right to it.

We do have new information, reports that five men who are allegedly from Syria, that they have been detained at an airport in Honduras. Now, according to a CNN affiliate, the men were traveling with fake passports.

We have Rosa Flores joining us now with more.

Rosa, what do we know about these five men, where they may have been headed, et cetera?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's what we know from authorities.

This is from national police there in Honduras. They were arrested. These five Syrian nationals were arrested in Tegucigalpa, the capital of Honduras. Now, they were holding fake Greek passports, is what authorities are telling us.

Now, these could have been altered, falsified, but they are fake Greek passports. Now, authorities in Honduras have contacted Greek authorities to make sure that they're aware of what they found in their country.

Now, about their intentions, Chris, this, of course, is the big question. Now, according to authorities there in Honduras, these men were trying to travel from the capital, Tegucigalpa, to San Pedro Sula, and then from there, from San Pedro Sula, they were planning, according to authorities, to travel to the United States.

Now, I have been to San Pedro Sula. We have been covering immigration stories in Central America for a while now. There is obviously a route that a lot of these immigrants from Central America take to make it to the United States. So, according to Honduran authorities, that was their plan. Now, we

have got to measure this, Chris, because there is no nexus to terrorism, according to what authorities are telling us at this particular time. They have alerted Greek authorities, but they are measuring this, saying that they do not have any evidence that this is -- that there is any nexus to terrorism, that these are terrorists or that these are even refugees.

They are calling them nationals. These are five nationals that were found in Honduras with fake passports. Now, it's important to note that Interpol is also involved. We actually have seen these passports. We're digging into this. I'm talking to some of my contacts there in Honduras to try to get more information. But that is the latest, five Syrian nationals found in the capital of Honduras trying to travel to an airport that is closer to the United States, San Pedro Sula is in the northwest quadrant of that country, and trying to make it to the United States -- Chris.

CUOMO: Rosa, this is still very much under investigation. It is fresh information we're bringing to you. You heard what Rosa Flores is reporting.

It may sound counterintuitive, but fake passports is not something new. It's been going on for a long time in a lot of different places. But they're buzz words involved in this recent report. You heard the word Syria in there, although they're in Central America. That is going to be something that gets extra attention given the current global environment with terrorism.

And, of course, any indication that the men were headed to the United States would also up the interest of U.S. authorities. We will stay on that.

But right now, we're in Paris, and this city is very much on edge and for good reason. There was a major development here today. Police believe they thwarted another attack just -- quote -- "in time." That's according to them. It was a bloody shoot-out that we're going to tell you about. And there's another development as well, a concern that with all the advantages that are coming with the increased police presence and the state of emergency and all these raids, that that may be creating pressure to accelerate the timetable for terrorists with whatever attacks were in the pipeline.

We will have more on that in a moment. We also have two very active searches ongoing today, one for the eighth terrorist from Friday's attack and this new twist involving the alleged planner of Friday's Paris attacks. What we know about that is that the prosecutor came out, giving a statement about what had happened today, and he said that they now believe the planner might not be in Syria, as they were saying just as of yesterday Bush, could be right in France, and that's why they went to Saint-Denis outside Paris and launched this operation today.

That information was the fruit of wiretaps and cell messages that had been discovered in just the last couple of days. So that's the what the prosecutor was saying. There's also a report from state TV in Belgium. They say that this raid today had one female terrorist there who blew herself up with this explosive belt, as French commandos moved in.

They believe that that woman was not just of a terrorist, but the cousin of this alleged planner. The prosecutor would not say if the planner is in custody and he would not say if he had been killed. He actually did say he's not in custody. He would not say whether or not he had been killed. So the female terrorist, though, that detonated the belt, she obviously died.

[15:05:15]

A second terrorist was also unidentified, but said to have been killed. That's the situation here right now. It was a really big development that's inside France.

Outside France, thousands of miles away, French warplanes launched new attacks on ISIS command centers in Syria. This comes as ISIS' magazine made a big claim today that it was their militants who brought down that Russian jet in late October. And, as proof, they published a picture of what they say is the bomb, the IED, in this case, if you believe what is offered, a soda can, as you can see, and some kind of simple detonation device.

Now, this is in conflict with the reporting that had come out by what they thought this explosive device was.

Let's bring in Nic Robertson, CNN senior international correspondent.

Nic, this was a big day with this major operation. Let's start with the place where it was, the locus. Our colleague Clarissa Ward actually climbed on top of a rooftop near where you are in Saint- Denis, where she was able to see this raided apartment and everything that was going on with literally hundreds ever assets on the ground. Let's play a little bit now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We have managed to get onto a rooftop here from which we can see the building behind me.

I'm just going to duck out so that we can push in and take a look at that apartment building that was the focus of these raids. We can see forensic experts have been moving around inside those rooms. They have been taking photographs, and you can see the aftermath of those blasts that were heard. All the windows have been blown out. You can see the pockmarks of heavy weaponry around those windows.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, Nic, Clarissa and also the prosecutor gave us the facts of what happened in that raid. I got some of the flavor from some police who are familiar with the operation.

They say that authorities had to basically just disintegrate that apartment to deal with the firepower that was coming at them and, of course, that exploded belt. So what do we know about the status of what they were able to do with that crime scene after how blown up it was and this information about the suspected planner of the Paris attacks not being in Syria, but being right here?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, and it's still an unknown question. Is he -- is Abdelhamid Abaaoud the body that is lying inside that apartment building?

You know, as recently as about an hour ago here, there was a controlled explosion because the police are still going through that building, still have concerns about some of the items they're finding there. That would be -- account for that controlled explosion.

The prosecutor told us 5,000 rounds of ammunition fired during that exchange, to the point that it has led to a significant amount of destruction on that building. That means that the investigators that are in the building now not only have to be worried about booby-traps, but have to be worried about the physical safety and security inside that building, that it is so beaten up, if you will, that it may collapse on them.

That appears at least on the face of it at the moment to be delaying the DNA analysis of the body. Two people killed, we're told, one of them, we know, a female suicide bomber. Was the other person who died there a male? Was he -- was that Abdelhamid Abaaoud?

That just isn't clear at the moment, but it does seem from what we're seeing right here right now tonight that the police are still taking their time and precautions to go completely through that building, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, so, Nic, there was the woman who blew herself up. There was another woman that they say they took into custody along with other terrorists.

The prosecutor wasn't giving out their identities, but all that really matters is that we know they have something to go on now in terms of people who they can tell them about what was supposed to happen and when. A lot to talk about here.

Let's bring in French journalist Stefan de Vries. He was one of the first to arrive on the scene after the "Charlie Hebdo" killings. We also have CNN producer Tim Lister at the Paris bureau.

Now, Stefan, let's start with this shocker today. You had the operation, but just as shocking, because it made that place look like a war zone. We saw the building. It's not the exterior of Paris. It looks like Beirut in there at its worst, but also that the planner isn't so far away as they assumed but right here in the locus of the attacks themselves. How do you make sense of that?

STEFAN DE VRIES, FRENCH JOURNALIST: It's incredible. If it's proved that it's him...

(CROSSTALK) CUOMO: It's a big if, but it's not coming from us. It's coming from the police. They said the reason they launched this operation was they had actionable intelligence that -- so, this is them.

DE VRIES: Absolutely.

Yes, and that's very worrying, because he was believed to be in Syria, but actually he was hiding in plain sight under the nose of the Paris police. The shows that there's a real issue with the intelligence services.

They do -- they have huge possibilities to gather intelligence. But, actually, they're not really using this intelligence. And he was just hiding -- well, it's not very far from here. How is this possible that one of Europe's most wanted men is just hiding in plain sight in Paris?

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CUOMO: Is it fair to say that obviously at least to him and people like him, they feel this is a safe place to be?

DE VRIES: Well, I think it's too early to judge, but it's clear that there is a problem with the intelligence services, not only in France, but in the rest of Europe as well.

In France itself, there are a couple of intelligence services, interior, exterior, and they hate each other. There's a lot of an animosity. And they really exchange information very badly because they don't like each other. This has been changed since "Charlie Hebdo." But, well, you see now that, well, it's not still working as it should be.

CUOMO: But they are making incredible progress. That's why they were able to do this operation with very little turnaround today.

Tim Lister, I was bouncing off an idea that I had heard from police this afternoon and reporting with you. Let's share that conversation with everybody else.

Their thinking was, there's somewhat of a rebounding concern from all of this increased pressure that they're putting on with all of these operations and their detentions of people. And that is that they may be pushing these cells into acting more quickly because of the sense of urgency now. What do you make of that?

TIM LISTER, CNN EXECUTIVE EDITOR: I think that's quite conceivable, Chris, yes.

In a way, these groups don't have a lot of time because they know the intensive manhunt on for them, for their support networks is going on all the time. I think they set themselves timetables, schedules within which to act because of both security, money, and other issues, logistical issues.

We know from what the French prosecutor said this evening that the operation on Friday night was extremely well-coordinated. There was a cell phone that was used that was subsequently thrown in a bin, saying, we're here, we're ready to do our part. All the cars converged on the sites, the different sites, on Friday night at the same time.

There was a lot of coordination going on. And they are I think pushing this intensity, and not least because France has become a much more active partner in the coalition strikes against Syria. And I think ISIS is putting down a major marker and changing the landscape of this conflict with the West through these operations. It wants to make a big point, and it's succeeding.

CUOMO: Tim, what is the weight of the unknown here when you hear from officials that we don't know if this operation today, this team, this cell, whatever you want to call them, is the end of it, that there could be others?

LISTER: I think one thing that's become absolutely apparent from this series of events is that European intelligence agencies don't have much of a handle on who's coming back from Syria, whether they have intent to carry out attacks on European soil.

It's normally estimated that of the several hundred European fighters in Syria and Iraq with ISIS, about a quarter have come back. But we know that at least two, probably three of those involved last Friday had gone to Syria, come back undetected. Even their families had no idea that they had come back.

The Belgian justice minister said, we hadn't a clue that one of these attackers was back on Belgian soil. He made the point that they simply don't have the resources to track all these people. But every single fighter that comes back from Syria or Iraq is estimated that 25 officers, analysts are required to track their movements.

This is the scale of the task. And the Europeans are really scrambling to catch up with the flow, both outwards and backwards, on top of which you have these silos of intelligence, intelligence agencies very jealous of their sources, their methods. They're not sharing enough information. It's a huge challenge, Chris.

CUOMO: Tim Lister, Stefan de Vries, thank you very much.

You would have thought that the police, the authorities would be celebratory today. They weren't. They said this is just the beginning, this place very much on edge.

Let's take a quick break. Coming up, disturbing new claims that ISIS according to itself said they used a soda can bomb to take down that Russian passenger jet. Is that believable?

And we continue to monitor breaking news. There's an active manhunt, as well as five men from Syria reportedly detained in Honduras with fake passports at an airport. Keep it on CNN. Special live coverage ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:18:23]

CUOMO: We are here in Paris and we have new claims about exactly what brought down that Russian passenger jet in Egypt.

ISIS is posting a picture today online showing what they say is what the bomb was all about. Take a look at it right there on your screen. That is a Schweppes soda can and a very simple detonator. That's what they're saying brought down that plane.

A bomb expert CNN talked with say the picture contains a blasting cap, wires and a toggle switch that was attached to a battery. Now, ISIS claims these items were all hidden inside that can. Is that true? Is that reasonable?

Let's talk more about this with people who know, CNN safety analyst David Soucie, a former FAA safety inspector and the author of "Why Planes Crash." We also have CNN political analyst Josh Rogin, who writes about national security and foreign affairs.

David, from what you can see in this picture, we were told that this was a one-kilogram, 2.2-pound, explosive that took down the plane. Now they're saying it's a soda can. Is what you see compelling?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, it's not a 2.2-pound explosive. That's for certain if this is what it was.

And it would take about that to take down an airplane. So I'm a little skeptical on this, Chris, unless it was perfectly placed in the airplane for the pressurization vulnerability, which I'm not at liberty to discuss, but that is the only possibility I could see that this would happen. And it would have to be very well-placed by someone who knew exactly where to put it.

CUOMO: It looks crude. However, can something as simple as that, this type of IED, basically, be detonated remotely? Or did you need someone on that plane?

[15:20:05]

SOUCIE: I don't see any way that this could be remote. If you notice looking at it, there's no transmission device, there's nothing like a little antenna, anything like that.

If it is remotely charged, this thing, it would have to be remotely activated by a very close distance, very close to it. It doesn't look to me there's any capability here that would indicate that it could be remotely detonated from the ground.

CUOMO: All right, now, Josh, the last thing that anybody wants to do is brag for ISIS, but when you look at this combination effect, you have got that jet in Egypt, obviously the Paris attacks, it does seem as though their capabilities just reach of the threat is real and expanding. Now, when we talk about that, is there any reason to check that understanding, or do you believe it is what it seems, that the ability of this terror group to reach out and touch innocents is expanding?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, Chris.

First of all, on the earlier point, I just received a statement from a senior U.S. intelligence official about the soda can bomb, and this official speaking on behalf of the intelligence community -- and this is first on CNN -- told me -- and I quote -- "Although I cannot confirm this was the bomb that took the plane down, a similar device could be sufficient to cause catastrophic damage to an aircraft."

So, this is the U.S. intelligence community responding to these reports in the ISIS propaganda magazine and saying that a similar device is capable of doing this type of damage. This also dovetails with reports that the soda can -- that the bomb that brought down the Russia plane was in the cabin, not the cargo hold, as was previously reported.

To your question directly, if you read through the "Dabiq" magazine, it's very clear -- and this is part of an article in the magazine written by British hostage journalist John Cantlie -- that the Islamic State has an active plan to expand its operations, and in addition to the three that we have seen over the past weeks, is planning more.

Their theory, their mission, as they describe it themselves, again, taking into account that this is terrorist propaganda, is that they want to draw the West into a larger invasion of their caliphate to bring about a prophetic final battle between the Muslims and the crusaders.

CUOMO: This obviously is consistent with their perverse view of the apocalypse and Armageddon and what is supposed to bring the end of days and everything else they sell to people that they're radicalizing.

But the bottom line for us is, in terms of the capabilities, that admission by nonadmission that you got from that official seems to say, yes, something like this would have been enough, didn't have to be in the cargo hold. It could have been smuggled in dozens of different ways without even having someone on board. Bottom line?

ROGIN: Exactly. The bottom line is that U.S. intelligence officials and Homeland Security officials are taking this threat of continued attacks added with the chatter on ISIS social media about plans to attack Washington very, very seriously.

TSA can only do so much. It's a combined law enforcement/intelligence and homeland security matter. The threat is real and everyone is working to thwart it as diligently as they possibly can.

CUOMO: We will take that as the silver lining, is that every time they put something out about how they did it, it allows the good guys to figure out how to combat it a little bit better.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Mr. Rogin, Mr. Soucie, thank you very much for your understanding.

Let's take a quick break. When we get back, let's get back to our breaking news here in Paris. Paris -- French police say that they literally got to an attack just in time. They went into two apartments. It became a battle scene just outside of Paris, a major operation that led to the arrest of eight suspects who again may have been close to launching yet another attack.

We're going to bring in Erin Burnett. She spoke with neighbors in that area. Get their perspective next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:02]

BALDWIN: Just about the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN's special live coverage here. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Back on our breaking story here, this other thread. We're getting reports that five men reportedly from Syria have been detained at the airport in Tegucigalpa. That is the capital of Honduras. Police say they were traveling with fake passports.

Want to go to our justice correspondent Evan Perez with more information here.

Evan, what do you know about these five?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, there's a couple of these incidents that have happened in the last few days in the wake of the Paris attacks that are getting people's attention.

And so let me explain just a little bit about it. For instance, a couple of days ago, authorities in Saint Martin, the Dutch part of Saint Martin, a Caribbean island, they detained three men who they believed were of Syrian origin and who were carrying fake or false Greek passports or passports that were not theirs.

And so those people were detained. They're under investigation. That information has been provided, kicked up to U.S. law enforcement. Now, this is part of a greater effort that the U.S. is doing. I'm told, since the Paris attacks, there's been a new effort to share a lot more information on this database of false documents, travel documents, passports, which is really a problem, a phenomenon around the world.

A lot of migrants use false documents. Some of them have lost their documents as they were trying to escape Syria or other countries. Some of them -- again, this is a way for them to move around, and so we shouldn't be making -- anybody should be making the assumptions about what the intentions of these people are.

It's not clear. There's no indication that any of them are terrorists hiding. Obviously, that is a big concern. And that's one reason why the U.S. is doing a lot more sharing of this information. But it's really more to also help these countries in Latin America secure their own borders.

And so there's a lot -- there's a bigger effort that is being made in the last few days, I'm told, by U.S. authorities to share some of this information, so that authorities can keep an eye out for this. U.S. law enforcement obviously is very concerned that there are indication terrorist groups have tried to exploit this flow of migrants and this big market really of false documents out there, again, no indication yet that these men in Honduras or these in -- in -- in Saint Martin had anything to do with terrorism.