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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Anti-Terror Raids in Brussels; Soda Can Bomb on Metrojet Flight; France under State of Emergency; Obama Threatens to Veto GOP Syrian Refugee Bill. Aired 5-5:30a ET

Aired November 19, 2015 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Separate raids in six separate locations in Belgium apparently connected to the attacks here on Friday, apparently connected to at least one of the attackers killed here on Friday. We will have much more on that in just a moment.

Meanwhile, here in France, police literally digging through the rubble of an apartment in the suburb of Saint-Denis. That is where the raid was yesterday, the huge raid involving more than 100 law enforcement officials, 5,000 rounds fired. It was targeting the man believed to be the ringleader of last week's attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud.

Officials say they moved in toward that apartment because of wire taps. They had information showing that, at a minimum, Abaaoud's cousin was staying there. It is believed at this point that cousin is dead. She apparently blew herself up early in the operation, wearing some kind of suicide explosive device.

At this point, police say they do not believe Abaaoud is among the eight people arrested. There were eight people taken into custody and in custody right now. Abaaoud is not one of them.

However, what they are doing is going through the apartment building, testing body parts. So much destruction, all that is left is body parts. Trying to link DNA to that man, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, to see if he was killed inside the raids.

Joining me now is CNN's Frederik Pleitgen.

Fred, you were in Saint-Denis yesterday during those raids. You saw the level of destruction inside that building, which explains what they are doing now. They are going through, piece by piece, trying to determine if it was Abaaoud.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They're going piece by piece and they keep having to stop as well simply because the destruction is so bad, as you said. One of the things that happened is they met so much resistance, especially in the second apartment they went into.

They went into two apartments in total. They had to use some pretty heavy ordnance to get their way in there. That apparently caused a whole floor of the building to collapse. Also there is a lot of unexploded ordnance still inside that building. So you have to imagine, they are sifting through that rubble, looking for body parts especially, to try to get some sort of DNA samples.

But at the same time they have to watch out not to step on anything, for something not to explode. I was there until way late last night. And even then they were still blowing things up. They were still doing controlled detonations to make sure that the building was cleared and to make sure they could go through it safely. It is a very, very slow and painstaking process in a very, very badly destroyed place.

BERMAN: -- scientific battle right now because it is not as if they had DNA from Abaaoud on file now. Now they have to match what is there with perhaps finding relatives to see if they can make a definitive link, which is so crucial, because he is believed to be the ringleader of the Friday attacks and French police tell CNN they believe they got to Saint-Denis yesterday just in time.

PLEITGEN: They believe that there was another possible attack imminent. They said, like you said, absolutely just if time. And it was from the intercepts they got, the cell phone intercepts as well as cell phone that they apparently found near one of the scenes of the attacks here on Friday that showed them intel that led them to the house.

This house was under surveillance for about 24 hours. It's not a long time because normally you want to establish patterns and see when people are coming and going and possibly what sort of firepower they have in the house.

So they moved in fairly quickly because they felt that something was imminent. They still believe that that would have been the case.

Then if you look at the member of people who were arrested in all, there were eight people arrested and two people killed, that puts that cell about the same size as the number of attackers that caused so much carnage here last Friday.

BERMAN: More than enough to carry out serious devastation.

The French government, French officials have been criticized for intelligence failures leading up to Friday's attacks. However, this needs to be considered rightly so an intelligence success, based on cell phones that were found at the sites of the attacks on Friday, based on wire taps only in the last few days.

PLEITGEN: They moved very quickly. They certainly did move very quickly. They apparently got some intel from Belgian officials as well. And it's one of the things, because with the intelligence failures, there were two things people were saying. First of all, you are not acting fast enough.

Second of all, in Europe, you are not sharing intelligence fast enough and not sharing enough intelligence. So in this case, it looked as though things moved forward pretty quickly. Now we don't know how much of that is connected to the fact that we

have these emergency measures in place. But of course legally makes it easier for them to put in place surveillance, also to take people into custody and to conduct these kinds of raids.

But by all measures, this was very much an intelligence success because if these people would have gone on a rampage with AK-47s and suicide vests in Paris at this point in time, you probably would have seen another massacre happen.

BERMAN: That's exactly right. Again, this morning, the big question, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, is he dead? Is he among those killed in that attack? We are waiting to find out. Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much.

Again, there is breaking news happening right now in Belgium. Anti- terror raids --

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BERMAN: -- underway, we are told now, in four separate locations, four neighborhoods, including apparently the district where the ringleader of these Paris attacks, a man we were just discussing, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, apparently one of the areas where he once lived.

But there are other attackers who were killed here. There were other attackers involved here, also from that area.

From Brussels right now, I believe still headed to the scene of some of those raids, I'm joined by senior correspondent Ivan Watson.

Ivan, give us a sense of what is happening.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The announcement that the Belgian police conducting the raids came just as the Belgium prime minister was addressing parliament and talking about new measures to try to combat terrorism in this country.

And the Belgian prosecutor's office -- that's part of why we were coming to you from the car right now, en route to these locations, John -- the Belgian federal prosecutor's office says that the police are targeting at least six different locations across the city.

The family and entourage they are looking for is the family of Bilal Hafdi. He is roughly 19-29 years old and he is one of the suicide bombers from the Paris attacks.

Now he had been on the radar of Belgian authorities long before the attacks because they believe he had left Brussels where he lived and traveled to Syria to join the ranks of ISIS, as hundreds of others of people here in Belgium have done in the past.

What the Belgian officials did not know was that he had somehow gotten himself back into Europe. They didn't know he was back in Europe until he blew himself up on the streets of Paris outside the football stadium there. So they say, again, that they are targeting his family and entourage.

They also say that they have detained somebody for questioning in connection with the Paris attacks.

Again, this comes as the Belgian prime minister came out with the speech claiming credit for the intelligence that the Belgian security services gave to France to carry out the raids in Saint-Denis that we saw, but also calling for new measures to crack down on what is clearly a problem in this country, saying that perhaps Belgium has to begin stripping citizenship from would-be jihadis, perhaps placing electronic ankle bracelets on people who are suspected of wanting to go to Syria or who have come back from there and some tough talk coming from him as well, saying that anybody who is a jihadi, who comes back should be put in prison -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Ivan Watson for us. You can see Ivan on the move right now in Belgium, headed to the site of one of the raids there. Raids on associates believed to be connected with one of the suicide attackers here in Paris on Friday. We will have much more on that developing situation in Belgium just ahead.

Meanwhile, ISIS this morning appears to be ramping up its propaganda machine. The official sort of online magazine of the terrorist organization has published a photo of what looks like a soda can bomb allegedly used they say to take down the Russian airliner over the Sinai Peninsula.

The White House at this point does not confirm whether or not they believe the Schweppes can here did take down that plane although the administration does say that it is convinced that ISIS was behind the attack.

We want to go straight now to Moscow, our senior correspondent Matthew Chance is there.

Matthew, the image of that soda can, that can of Schweppes plus what appears to be some kind of a detonator. It is chilling. The Russian officials told us the other day they believe that it was only about a 2-pound bomb that took down that plane. That would certainly fit in that soda can.

Do they have any reaction this morning?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. They said it would be up to two pounds, up to a kilo is what they said, which would mean that this doesn't rule out the possibility that the explosives fitted inside this tin can, which looks like it's a Schweppes fizzy pineapple drink.

There is a switch there as well, which also raises the question about how this device, if it is the device, was detonated. There has been speculation that it could have been somebody on board but that is not verified or confirmed.

The Russian press is speculating that it could have been on a timer. That is another means of having the device detonated as well. For the Kremlin, they have been very tight-lipped on this, saying only

that they have seen the images that have been published on that daish website and stopping short of saying what they are doing about it, except to say that they intend to find those responsible and bring those perpetrators to justice.

So the Russians taking still a very hard line on this. They have launched increasing numbers of military strikes on targets inside Syria, targeting ISIS as well, targeting a number of things --

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CHANCE: -- targeting the oil tankers that are used, they say, to fund ISIS but also launching cruise missiles against various other targets across Syria as well. But they're really upping their military game in Syria after it was confirmed that this attack on the Metrojet airliner was indeed a bomb.

BERMAN: An attack in Sinai and attacks in Beirut and attacks in Paris shows you the scope of what is going on with ISIS and the level of concern all around the world. Matthew Chance in Moscow, thank you so much.

Christine, let's go back to you.

ROMANS: All right, John, yes, new ISIS threats and concerns here in the U.S. as well. A brand new ISIS video claims New York City could be the next terror target.

This video shows scenes of Manhattan's Times Square and Herald Square. What you are seeing there is video or these pictures of a suicide bomber, zipping up a jacket after putting on an explosive belt. New York's mayor flanked by police officials assuring the city's residents there are no specific credible threats.

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BILL DE BLASIO, MAYOR OF NEW YORK: The people of New York City will not be intimidated. We understand it is the goal of terrorists to intimidate and disrupt our democratic society. We will not submit to their wishes.

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ROMANS: The NYPD has just initiated a new critical response command with 500 officers dedicated solely to anti-terrorism activities.

Five Syrian nationals trying to reach the United States using stolen Greek passports, they have been arrested in the Bahamas. These five men were arrested late Tuesday after flying into the airport in the Honduran capital.

They will face a judge later today. Authorities claim they were planning to make their way to the U.S. by land by crossing Guatemala and Mexico. The brutality of ISIS keeping France on edge. Lawmakers are meeting right now on the state of emergency and new government powers. Should it be extended? Live team coverage continues next.

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BERMAN: Tensions running high across France this morning as we speak, French lawmakers debating whether to extend the current state of emergency for as long as three months. They've already banned public demonstrations, parades and the like, for another few weeks.

This as we wait to hear whether the suspected ringleader of the Paris attacks has been killed. Forensic tests right now on body parts found inside that apartment building, trying to link them to Abdelhamid Abaaoud.

Was he inside?

Is he dead?

Joining us now is CNN international anchor Hala Gorani; also Melissa Bell, international affairs editor for the France 24 television network.

Hala, the big question this morning, we are just waiting.

Was it Abaaoud?

That's the question everyone wants to know.

GORANI: And of course the big challenge is in order to conduct DNA tests, you have to have something to test it against, the DNA of Abdelhamid Abaaoud presumably not on any database. So in other words, you have to find relatives. It will take time. That's challenge number one.

Challenge number two as well as what happened inside the apartment, explosives were used. There was resistance. There is an entire floor in the building that is not even structurally sound. So it takes a lot of effort and a lot of planning and some risk involved as far as the investigators are concerned to enter that building and continue these tests.

BERMAN: Five thousand rounds fired in that raid to give you a sense of the confrontation there.

Melissa, this discussion of whether it was in fact Abaaoud or not, obscures the larger issue. The mere suspicion that it was, the mere suspicion that this guy could have traveled back and forth to Syria when he had been the focus of so much concern here in Belgium, in the United States for the last year. It's extraordinary.

MELISSA BELL, INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR, FRANCE 24: And throughout this, his name came up fairly quickly. The French authorities suggest he may have been the mastermind. But obviously not physically on the ground. It was not at all what people had envisaged.

The idea was that he was fighting in Syria and had been for some time. When he boasted of coming to and from Europe, you did not quite know whether to take it seriously.

But yes, the fact that, according to what police said is that Monday night, they had a certain number of cross-information that led them to believe he might actually have been.

You're right. We have to wait a couple of hours. Apparently the violence we heard from -- France's chief prosecutor's office last night was such within that apartment that the bodies will take a while to be identified and recognized and pieced back together in order to identify them. The Belgian authorities meanwhile have transferred all the information they have on Abdelhamid Abaaoud to the French in order that they can test what is inside that dossier with elements found on the body to see whether they can confirm that it was indeed him.

BERMAN: You brought up Belgian officials. As we speak right now, there are raids, we are just learning, going on in Belgium right now, targeting one of the suicide attackers here on Friday, trying to go after some of his associates. You can see the web widening here in the investigation, not just in Paris but in Belgium as well.

GORANI: Right. This has been a two-country story from the beginning. The links between Belgium and France in this investigation from really the first hours after the terrible attacks on Friday. Well, in fact, the suspected ringleader is Belgian there in Molenbeek, that suburb outside of Brussels as well, where he comes from, the suspected ringleader. Someone who has planned and tried to orchestrate deadly attacks but failed on this scale, on the scale of Friday night in the past.

Is he in the building?

Who does he know there?

Investigators from the beginning, beyond the fact that eight additional suspects and two dead, several arrested in Saint-Denis, have said this is a much bigger network. It is not just a handful of people. And that is what they are trying to determine now.

BERMAN: Plus, 100 raids a night every night since the attack.

How much longer do the French authorities can keep this up?

BELL: They will probably have to keep it going for some time. The state of emergency that's being discussed right now in parliament will give them the ability to do that, hugely beefed-up powers that will be in place because the parliament will give the powers the state -- [05:20:00]

BELL: -- is requesting, powers to essentially move in on anyone it has suspicions on, place them under house arrest, keep an eye on them much more closely than it has before. You've seen those raids and the number of arrests that have been made over the past few days, the arsenal that's been uncovered in many of these locations.

BERMAN: Rocket launchers in an apartment in Lyon, it's just not the kind of thing you see, you would expect to see in a country like France.

Melissa Bell and Hala Gorani, thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

Syria's president must go. That message just coming again this morning from President Obama. We'll have much more on what he says needs to happen before ISIS can be defeated. We are live next.

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ROMANS: The fight over Syrian refugees coming to America hits the House floor today. Lawmakers set to vote on a Republican backed bill that would effectively suspend the refugee resettlement program. President Obama has promised to veto; he is blasting Congress for jumping on the refugee issue, trying to, in his words, "solve the threat of widows and orphans fleeing a war-torn land."

CNN's Michelle Kosinski traveling with the president overseas. She joins us this morning from the Philippines -- Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, good morning. We heard the president go off on this plan this week, calling it irresponsible, not who we are as a nation, political posturing.

Today, the administration wasn't quite so harsh. But the press secretary did call this something that isn't focused on national security so much as it is preying on fear, panic and, as he put it, cheap political calculations.

So, yes, the administration is completely opposed to stopping the program even if it were a temporary pause. They said in their response to it officially, that it is just untenable. It would not add anything to national security. It would only cause unnecessary delays and chip away at the U.S.' humanitarian goal of actually helping out victims of war.

There is another plan brewing in Congress over the visa waiver program. That is nations that have an agreement with the U.S. that people can travel here without getting a visa. Some in Congress, a bipartisan bill is being shaped that would put additional restrictions on that.

The administration today would not go so far as to say whether they thought that was overly broad. Something like not allowing people to come here if they have been to Iraq or Syria in the last five years, as it is looking like the framework would be for this.

But they are saying they would be open to tightening things up, not only on the visa waiver program, which has been called into question for years as to how that effects national security, but also on the refugee vetting itself. They don't believe in a stoppage. But they say they are open to evaluating it, tightening it up where it can be that it won't affect the program too much, in a way that's overly broad.

ROMANS: All right. Michelle Kosinski, who is traveling with the president in Manila. And, again, that vote in the House scheduled for today.

It's 27 minutes past the hour.

Was the ringleader of the Paris terror attacks killed in that police raid in a Paris apartment? DNA testing and an intense investigation happening right now in France and raids happening in Belgium. Live team coverage next.

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