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Interview with Sen. Bob Corker; Counterattack Underway in Mali Hotel Siege; House Ok's Bill That Could Limit Syrian Refugees; Muslims Fear Backlash as Rhetoric Escalates. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired November 20, 2015 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:29:56] SEN. BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: So it's really an executive decision first. And then I think once that decision is made, it is collecting from our, you know, great military leaders the best way to go about doing that.
We as a nation really haven't made the decision yet in my opinion that we want to destroy them. It's been a decision to contain. You've heard, you know, Iraq first, we'll deal with Syria later. You know the fact that the robustness of what we're doing in the air. We know the air cannot end this. We all understand that.
So I think again, it has to be a decision by the United States that, yes, this is important enough for us to -- and France has to make the same kind of decisions, other countries, too. But that decision really hasn't been made in my opinion.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And in your opinion, U.S. leadership is critical.
CORKER: Absolutely. You know, you see President Hollande going to the U.S. He's going to be in Russia just a few days after. I mean he's running around, doing what you would expect him to do after what has happened here. And you know, what they're doing in Mali and other places. I mean France has demonstrated leadership in multiple areas.
But I think with something like this, the only way for it to be successful is with U.S. leadership.
COOPER: Senator Corker, I appreciate you time. Thank you so much for coming down.
CORKER: Thank you. Any time.
COSTELLO: Appreciate it.
CORKER: Thank you.
COOPER: Good luck to you on your trip.
Coming up, the latest on Mali -- how many hostages remain inside the hotel and who could be responsible for the attack? There are a number of groups. We'll take a look at all of them ahead. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:35:48] COOPER: In Mali an ongoing operation to free dozens of hostages after gunmen stormed a luxury hotel. Security forces including U.N. troops and U.S. Special Forces launching the counterassault after an early morning attack that has left at least three people dead.
CNN's Robin Kriel joins now from Nairobi. Robin -- what are you learning?
ROBIN KRIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it sounds like some bad news coming from the Radisson Blu Hotel in Bamako. We are hearing -- I'm speaking to a local journalist on the ground there Anderson, who says that he has seen a number of bodies go past and a number of injured people and a number of ambulances as well.
So, at the moment, just three dead officially -- we are waiting to see if that has been updated. But according to an eyewitness on the ground, they have seen more bodies. That's also according to a U.N. official who is at the scene saying that the death toll is likely to rise from where it is now at three.
Also Anderson, we are hearing that an al Qaeda group has begun to claim responsibility. An al Qaeda-linked group has begun to claim responsibility for this deadly attack. We're not sure whether it is al-Mourabitoun or Ansar Dine at this stage.
Al-Mourabitoun was responsible for a hotel attack -- very similar to this one in early August in central at the Byblos Hotel. They killed 17 people there. It began very early in the morning on a Friday -- so very similar M.O. However Ansar Dine's leader just released an audio statements, a few days ago saying that they should step up the tempo to attack French interests and to attack the French in general.
So at the moment we're not sure which of these al Qaeda affiliates it could be but there are the two, we understand are the most likely.
Also Anderson, on the back of this ISIS attacks in Paris -- a number of experts are worried that this has ignited some kind of a war for PR between al Qaeda linked groups and ISIS affiliate. Indeed the Foreign Policy Research Institute saying back in 2013 that competing al Qaeda affiliates may actually increase their attack tempo in an effort to assert themselves.
So this could be very, very worrying if it becomes a battle for attention between al Qaeda linked group and ISIS linked groups. We're seeing more and more of that on the ground here in East Africa as well.
COOPER: Robin Kriel, appreciate the update. We'll continue to check back with you throughout this morning.
We go now to New York to my colleague, Carol Costello -- Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Anderson -- thanks.
The attack on the Mali hotel comes just one day after French President Francois Hollande praised troops for successfully fighting jihadist in that West African nation. It takes place against the background of the terrorist attacks and a heated debate over Syrian refugees and now Muslims here in the United States.
On Capitol Hill, House lawmakers overwhelmingly approved a bill that could limit the number of Syrian refugees admitted into the United States. And for some Republican presidential candidates, the issue has become a popular talking point on the campaign trail. The Democratic National Committee is putting out this ad in response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are at war with radical Islam.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Radical Islamic terrorism.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You do have a problem with radical Muslims.
DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Radical Islamic jihadists.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Radical Islamic terrorism.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do not fight against Islam. We fight against evil.
The war against terrorism is not a war against Muslims. Nor is it a war against Arabs. It's a war --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All right. You get the idea here. Joining me now to talk about this and more Democratic Congressman Kurt Schrader of Oregon. He voted yes on that bill that could limit Syrian refugees coming into the United States. Good morning, sir.
REP. KURT SCHRADER (D), OREGON: Hey -- good morning. How are you?
COSTELLO: I'm good.
Some on Twitter have not been kind, calling you a traitor to Oregon and a xenophobic. Are you concerned?
SCHRADER: No. Because there's been misrepresentation in the press, just like you did a minute ago about how this would limit Syrian refugees into this country. I ask everyone in Oregon and the country just read the bill. It's all three pages very straightforward. [10:40:03] All it talks about is making sure that our
intelligence and security forces, including the FBI, certify that people coming in through the refugee program, which every member of Congress wants to continue, are not a threat under the current processes to people of the United States.
People in this country are afraid -- Carol. They deserve to know that the United States government and their Congress is doing everything to make sure that the refugees that need to get out of these horrible places can do so safely and they do not pose a threat to America.
COSTELLO: I will say some say the intent of this bill is to really create so many checks that it would be impossible for any Syrian refugee to come into this country any time soon.
SCHRADER: Well, that's absolutely false. Absolutely false -- again, read the bill. Republican leadership could have put on a very strange, you know, whack-a-doodle type of bill that would have gone against Muslims, would have had all sorts of restrictions, stopping the Syrian refugee program all together.
I give Speaker Ryan some credit for putting a responsible bill on the floor that just says, "Hey, let's make sure we're doing our due diligence and let's get the FBI really involved." We've heard in the Paris attacks how the FBI has been integral to helping the French authorities figure out what's going.
We're asking just the same thing for this country. I think that's a major responsibility of members of Congress, is national security and reassure the American people it's all good.
Read the bill. It's not at all what it's been hyped up to be.
COSTELLO: Ok. So, Congressman, this vote to keep Syrian refugees -- you know a pause on Syrian refugees, I guess I should put it this way --
SCHRADER: There's no pause -- Carol. That's incorrect, with all due respect.
COSTELLO: So dozens and dozens of checks. I'll go along with you -- ok.
SCHRADER: One additional check -- yes, ma'am.
COSTELLO: A lot of people say -- one additional check -- some say that's just one part of what some call what's becoming a disturbing climate in America.
Donald Trump said he would not rule out a database that registered U.S. American-Muslims; Ben Carson comparing these refugees to rabid dogs. Is this the kind of language that's good for our country?
SCHRADER: Absolutely not. I think it's important -- I think it's good to have folks on both sides of the debate maybe on this bill in Congress to show people that we're not a xenophobic country. We're a country of immigrants. My own country immigrated to this country in the late 1800s. I'm proud of that heritage. We should embrace that. That's one of the vital aspects of this country is new thinking, new blood.
But we want to make sure it's done safely. And unfortunately, different groups and some in the media are conflating these two. And that's not the case. I think what we need to make sure that we understand this. This is not a crazy Republican presidential contest with all these nut cases saying these extremist things.
This is responsible members of Congress having a serious debate about making sure this program is safe and in some cases making a statement that they support the refugee program. I get that.
COSTELLO: Right. So what you're saying is the bill is sane and some of the rhetoric coming from these Republican candidates are in your words nut cakes?
SCHRADER: Yes, ma'am.
COSTELLO: Ok. I just wanted to make that clear.
George W. Bush, you heard him in that ad. He said those things about American Muslims after 9/11. The rhetoric about Muslims seems to be much more harsh today. What happened?
SCHRADER: Well, again, I think people tend to be afraid. Unfortunately, a person that doesn't look like you, doesn't sound like you, maybe doesn't dress like you, they're an easy target to potentially vilify or blame for certain things that are happening.
As we heard in an earlier segment on your show with Senator Corker, this is a tough problem. The Syrian conflict is very, very complex. I don't agree with him that it's the United States' sole responsibility to jump in there. That did not work in Iraq. It did not work in Afghanistan.
We have to have the way to a peace. We need to have Europe step up in a big way, put their ground forces there. Need to step up -- have the Gulf States step up. And, frankly, engage the Russians who are now victims of the Islamic state into coming up with a political resolution for the Syrian government so there's a stable force there that can stay on the ground and keep the peace after everyone's gone.
COSTELLO: Congressman Kirk Schrader of Oregon -- thank you so much for being with me.
SCHRADER: Thanks -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You're welcome. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, in the aftermath of the Paris terror attacks, growing fears of backlash against Muslims here in the United States. We'll parse that up some more after a break.
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[10:48:52] COOPER: Well, it's rare that you hear a father who is relieved to hear that his son is dead. That's apparently what the father of the man who orchestrated the Paris terror attacks has told his attorney. He's relieved over the news that his son died during that police raid in suburban Paris -- that, according to the attorney representing the ringleader's father.
Here's part of her interview with CNN's Erin Burnett.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATHALIE GALLANT, ATTORNEY FOR ABDELHAMID ABAAOUD'S FATHER: It was during 2013. His son was beginning to make a lot of criticism concerning the way the father was educating the small kids because he was educating them, you know, like European. And Abdelhamid was totally upset because of that.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Abdelhamid Abaaoud has said some horrible things Nathalie, of course. One of the things he said -- I quote him from a video he put out. "It gives me pleasure from time to time to see blood of the disbelievers run."
He put out another video. You see him in this video dragging a pile of bodies behind a truck in Syria.
[10:50:03] What did his father say to you when he saw this video, when he heard these horrible things?
GALLANT: He said exactly that this was the behavior of a psychopath. For him, it was the proof that his son became a devil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That son now is dead, as you know, killed in the police raid in Saint-Denis and we learned earlier today that a third body has actually been found in the rubble -- or in the wreckage of that apartment.
Police do not yet, or at least have not publicly said who that third person is who died in the raid. As you know, not only did the ringleader die but also his cousin, a female, who detonated a suicide device, obviously, police are going to be conducting DNA testing to find out the identity of that third person.
We do know the eighth terrorist, Abdel -- I'm blanking on his name -- Abdeslam is still at large. And also a ninth person who may have been with him is also still at large and unidentified. We'll have all the latest on that, Carol, shortly throughout the day.
COSTELLO: All right, Anderson, thanks so much. You've been up for a long time, so we totally understand.
We do have good news --
COOPER: Sorry about that. COSTELLO: We do have good news out of Mali, however. All the
hostages have been freed from that hotel, that's according to AFP. Of course, CNN will be covering that throughout the day.
The heated rhetoric from some on the campaign trail here in the United States is upsetting many American Muslims. Ben Carson comparing Syrian refugees to rabid dogs and Donald Trump -- listen to what he said when asked if he would require Muslims to register in a national database.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would certainly implement that. Absolutely.
CARSON: If there's a rabid dog running around your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: It's not just Republicans, the mayor of Roanoke, Virginia, a Democratic, brought up Japanese interment camps during World War II to justify keeping Syrian refugees out of Virginia.
Joining me now is Rabiah Ahmed, communications director for the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Washington. Welcome.
RABIAH AHMED, MUSLIM PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL: Thank you.
COSTELLO: With terrorists in Mali forcing hostages to read the Koran and attackers in Paris killing in the name of Islam -- can you understand why many Americans are afraid at the moment?
AHMED: Oh, absolutely, definitely, but we as American Muslims are also afraid. The very fact that I am here as an American born and raised citizen, a proud Midwestern girl, a mother, on national TV, having to speak out against the terrorist attacks of people a continent away is indicative of how those attacks affect our lives here in this country.
Our struggle here is two-fold. We have to push back against extremist ideology overseas, defend ourselves physically from their attacks but also have to deal with the political extremists in this country who choose to marginalize us instead of seeing us as fellow American counterparts.
COSTELLO: When the idea of American Muslims possibly having to register in a database, what went through your mind?
AHMED: I mean it was very absurd and very surreal. I couldn't really believe that this was actually being said and that people were actually entertaining the idea and that more people weren't speaking out against this.
I mean is this responsible rhetoric coming from a potential presidential candidate? What kind of America are we trying to move forward to? Is this the America that we want to fight and stand up for? It's very -- it's very alarming. It's actually very counterproductive because the political extremist ideologies that coming from these presidential candidates is actually playing into the hands of ISIS and the terrorists abroad. They are trying to push a framework that promotes that the west is at war with Islam and Muslims and by trying to disenfranchise and marginalize the Muslims it only plays into their hands and promotes the ISIS agenda.
So I would caution people to be very careful about what they're promoting even if it's just to gain political points in an election year.
COSTELLO: Just to be clear, in that bill that went through the House that kind of puts a pause on United States accepting Syrian refugees, for the moment, is that a good idea?
AHMED: Look, we understand. We are all concerned about the security and safety of our nation. We want security measures, of course, to be in place and they should be in place across the board, but they shouldn't be targeted to people based on their faith or based on people's emotions or fear.
[10:55:08] That's not the country that we are. And that's not how we make policies.
I understand the fear, but I feel like we have to look at the facts and we have to make policies based on sound judgment.
COSTELLO: And you know just -- I just wonder how people -- have people been reacting to you in a different way since the Paris attacks? Has that happened?
AHMED: Yes, yes, it has been, but we've seen both the bad and the good. I don't want to focus on the bad. I would rather focus on the many gestures of outreach that we have received. That is -- you know, that is the future I want for my kids. And that is the future that I'm going to work for.
COSTELLO: Rabiah Ahmed -- thanks for being with me this morning.
AHMED: Thank you.
COSTELLO: You're welcome. And thanks to you for joining me today and thanks to Anderson Cooper reporting live from Paris.
I'm Carol Costello.
"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan after a break.
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