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Trump: I Did Not Suggest Database; 21 Killed in Mali Hotel Attack; Roanoke Mayor Under Fire for Comments on Internment Camps for Syrian Refugees. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 20, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: He certainly didn't bring it up himself. It was interesting to see him minutes after leaving this event tweeting sort of saying that this isn't an issue he brought up himself, but rather that a journalist asked him this question. This is an idea that has gotten him a ton of backlash including from some of his rivals. Today, Ted Cruz, who has been reticent to go after Trump saying he doesn't think a database is a good idea and would infringe on religious liberties. Someone else commented Ben Carson saying this is not what America is about. People in America should all be treated the same way. Before Trump took the stage, I took some time to talk to some of the Trump fans who were in the audience. I have to tell you, the response to this idea of a database, a national database to track Muslims in the country got a lot of mixed reviews. Some thought it was a great idea. They think Muslims in the country should be tracked more closely because they fear they could be radicalized, but other people telling me that this is about religious liberties and that Americans should be treated the same way. And they worry that people would be discriminated against.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: So that's what you're getting from the crowd.

Bob Cusack, I'm just curious, do you think -- you hear this reporter. That's what reporters do when you're covering folks that want to be president. You throw a lot of questions at them. Do you think the fact that the reporter led him to this, although he said certainly would implement, does that dilute the headline?

BOB CUSACK, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE HILL: He's not saying Muslim data because. That's where supporters are saying he never said but responding to the question. The big picture here is that Trump is walking this back. Trump doesn't walk much back because --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Didn't he support it? Didn't he say he was agreeing yes?

CUSACK: Based upon that tape, absolutely. I would be implementing that and other systems.

BALDWIN: Yeah, OK.

CUSACK: That's why I think he had to send out that tweet to back away from it because it's been out there and he viewed it as I think clearly hurting him, especially when Ted Cruz, who has not gone after Trump, basically distanced himself from that idea.

BALDWIN: How about moving off of Trump. Ben Carson is giving Trump the most competition here in the race for the nomination. On some of this, he said this with regard to refugees and this whole debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & RETIRED NEUROSURGEON: If there's a rabid dog running around your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog. And you're probably going to put your children out of the way. It doesn't mean that you hate all dogs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Bob, rabid dog as an analogy to human beings. No matter how you feel about refugees, come on.

CUSACK: Very controversial, no doubt about it. I think, though, these Republican candidates are talking to the Republican base. And clearly after this Paris attack, the tragedy, I think there's certainly going to be some Republican who is having no problems with comparing terrorists to dogs, even if they are human beings. Carson has had a very rough week, especially on foreign policy. And this is maybe somewhat of an attempt to move away from his less than stellar answers in recent interviews and the Carson camp itself has been going after itself and one adviser criticizing Carson for not knowing much about foreign policy. That's not an asset when talking about ISIS and the rise of ISIS over the last week. This could be a diversion. I don't think it hurts him that much.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

Bob Cusack, thank you, as always.

And M.J. Lee, thank you, in South Carolina.

Coming up next, back to Africa and Mali. The latest on the deadly siege and how Special Forces managed to take back this hotel from armed killers. Ambassador Wendy Sherman joins us live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:38:30] JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. Let's go to some breaking news out of Mali, that hotel siege that has entered its 12th hour. A United Nations spokesman now telling CNN that 21 people were killed during this attack at the Radisson Blu Hotel. No more hostages are inside, but it's believed some of the attackers could still be inside, some of the terrorists who laid siege on this hotel.

What is behind today's attack? Mali is a former French colony. It is a hotbed for terrorist activity. Joining me to talk more about this is Ambassador Wendy Sherman,

former undersecretary of state for political affairs. Currently, she's a senior fellow at Harvard University's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs.

Ambassador Sherman, thank you for joining us.

What is Mali's history with terror groups? Is today's attack a sign of more trouble ahead?

AMB. WENDY SHERMAN, SENIOR FELLOW, HARVARD UNIVERSITY'S BELFER CENTER FOR SCIENCE AND INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS & FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE: Well, Mali has a very difficult history. Its northern part of its country, it's nearly twice the size of Texas just to give listeners some idea of the size of the country. It's staggeringly poor. A vast majority of the people live on $1.25 a day. And it's basically an agricultural country, but with some resources that it tries to mine.

But that said, it has had ungovernable territory. People don't know it's in Mali and nobody has been able to visit that for quite some time. Most Americans know of Timbuktu, but they don't know it's in Mali. And nobody has been able to visit that for quite some time.

[14:40:] In 2013, the French, at the request of the temporary transitional Mali government, intervened to try to get Islamists out of the north and to reclaim the region for the central government. There was a perceived victory working with troops. Those who started some of the issues came on the side of the government fighting against the Islamists. But it's a very mixed history. And although a French colony some time ago and for quite a long time, it's been independent for some time and has tried to become a democracy. But it is a very tough environment.

There was a successful Democratic election for all intents and purposes. And people thought that Mali was headed in a better direction. But it is very challenged. And many people believe that some of Boko Haram got its training in the desert in Mali for the horrible things that they have done in Nigeria. So this is a tough, tough environment.

TAPPER: I was told an offshoot of al Qaeda in the Islamic territory has claimed responsibility for this attack. Some terrorism experts are speculating that it's possible that al Qaeda, a rival terrorist group, for want of a better term, to ISIS, might be trying to get some attention. Is that a possibility? Is that credible?

SHERMAN: I suppose it's possible. At the end of the day, what we all have it to remember is what President Obama has talked about and Hillary Clinton talked about yesterday in her speech, which is this is a network of terrorism that we are discussing. If ISIL disappeared tomorrow and if al Qaeda, the original al Qaeda, sort of collapsed, we now have al Qaeda in the Maghreb. We're going to have to continue to deal with this, not only militarily, which is really the smallest response to this, but to deal with the financing infrastructure, to get strong, peaceful governance in place. That's what Secretary Kerry is trying to get moving in Syria so we end the civil war and we can focus our attention all on ISIL as opposed to the brutality of the Assad government. We have to deal with that infrastructure. We have to deal with the propaganda war and help each country get its security chops so they can deal with these ongoing threats.

This is a long-term process. We've made some progress, but there's a little bit of Whack-a-Mole we're all going to have to continue to deal with.

TAPPER: Ambassador Wendy Sherman, thank you so much.

Brooke, back to you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, the mayor of Roanoke, Virginia, under fire for comparing the Syrian refugee crisis to the internment of Japanese-Americans. My next guest, "Star Trek's" George Takei, has some thoughts about that mayor's letter. He's actually starring on Broadway here in New York right now in this musical sort of based upon his past, based upon his life. He and his family spent years in those camps. George Takei, live on CNN, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:48:06] BALDWIN: The Democratic mayor of Roanoke, Virginia, coming under fire for comparing the Syrian refugee crisis to one of the United States' most shameful chapters. In a quest to keep refugees out, Mayor David Bowers said in a statement, quote, "I'm reminded that President Franklin D. Roosevelt felt compelled to sequester Japanese foreign nationals after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and it appears that the threat of harm to America from ISIS now is just as real and serious as that from our enemies then."

He's referring to the Japanese internment camps that detained 120,000 Japanese-Americans following the bombing of Pearl Harbor. The Reagan administration issued an apology to internment camp survivors. And the mayor has apologized to anyone offended by his remarks.

George Takei, known for his role in "Star Trek," now starring in a musical, "Allegiance," about the time he spent at one of those internment camps. He's publically invited the mayor to attend a performance.

Mr. Takei, an honor and a pleasure. Thank you for coming in.

GEORGE TAKEI, ACTOR: Good to be here.

BALDWIN: Has the mayor taken you up on that offer?

TAKEI: He's been silent. We haven't heard from him at all. But the offer still stands. I think he can benefit and be enlightened from a visit.

BALDWIN: We'll see if that happens.

In the meantime, the story this week, the House has passed this bill that would suspend the program to allow Iraqi refugees into the country. Looking at two recent polls, the majority of Americans agree with the House of Representatives in their stance.

You disagree. This is personal for you.

TAKEI: You know, in the '70s, a movement began to get an apology and redress. Congress organized a commission to examine the reasons why that internment of Japanese-Americans happened. I testified at that commission hearing. They found that there were three main reasons. One was racial prejudice. Two, it was war hysteria. And three, it was lack of political leadership. Political leadership failed. And the same thing is happening now.

[14:50:26] BALDWIN: Our leaders are failing?

TAKEI: People are being stamped and the elected leadership is stampeding with them. A number of governors have said they will not accept Syrian refugees. Then mayor bower made that same statement. First of all, mayor bower's statement is very uninformed. For one thing, mayors and governors don't have the authority, nor the power to do that. The Refugees Act of 1980 says only the president has that power. So they are just wind bags on that issue. But he said that it was a sequester of Japanese nationals. It was not a sequester, it was an internment. It was not Japanese nationals. They were American citizens of Japanese ancestry, like me. It was racial prejudice.

BALDWIN: He says -- I'm just telling you what he recently said to us. He hasn't talked to you. He says he didn't mean to offend anyone. He says he's sorry. But still, I understand the sentiment is out there.

With your own personal story, and especially testifying, you're the perfect person to talk to about this. The fact is with regard to these Syrian and Iraqi refugees, we now know that at least one of the Paris terrorists came in to Europe via Greece as a refugee. So there's concern from a majority governors that we are at risk.

TAKEI: Our vetting process is intense and it is rigorous. There have been 1,800 plus Syrian refugees that have been allowed into the country. They have been vetted. Not a single one of them has been -- in fact, they are fleeing the counterterrorism that we're afraid of it. They are fleeing that kind of terrorism. None of them have been found to be in any way connected to terrorism. Since 9/11 over 75,000 Syrian refugees have been accepted into the United States. There's no --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Can you appreciate the concern from some Americans?

TAKEI: There was the same kind of concern then of us. We're American citizens. And there were no charges. It was just hysteria. There should be due process. There should be charges on individuals who are suspicious, but not this wholesale blanket racially or religiously motivated broad brush painting of a whole group of people. That's not the United States. That's not what we stand for. BALDWIN: With your own personal story and allegiance, do you

remember the day you were forced to leave your home?

TAKEI: I do remember that. I was 5 years old. I had just turned 5 a few weeks before that particular morning when my parents got me, my younger brother, a year younger, and our baby sister, not a year old yet, up very early in the morning. They hurriedly dressed and we were told to wait in the living room. We were gazing out the front window and we saw American soldiers with bayonets on their rifles march up our driveway, two of them, stomp up the front porch, and with their firsts, banged on the front door. My father answered it and, literally at gunpoint, we were ordered out of our home. This in America in Los Angeles in 1942. We were taken from our home and taken to the horse stables of a racetrack. So we were housed in horse stalls that were ripe with the scent of horse manure. But to 5-year- old me, I thought it was kind of neat to sleep where the horses sleep. But for my parents, it was degrading. It was debasing. It was painful. And that was just the beginning of that whole experience.

BALDWIN: Is it the final scene in "Allegiance," where you deliver this monologue, and it's an apology to your father? What do you say?

[14:54:55] TAKEI: As a teenager, I became very interested in my childhood internment because the history books that I read, the civics books that I read, talked about the shining ideals of our American democracy. And so we had many discussions on that. And I was inspired by Dr. Martin Luther King at that time. I was an idealistic young teenager. And idealistic teens can be very arrogant at times. And when our discussion got heated one night, I said, "Daddy, you led us like sheep to slaughter into the internment camp," and suddenly my father was silent. That give and take stopped and you knew immediately I had touched a nerve. This man, who suffered so much, and after the internment worked his fingers to the bones to get back on our feet, this man who sacrificed and suffered so much, I had hurt. And I felt terribly. My father looked at me and said, "Well, maybe you're right." And he got up and went into the bedroom and closed the door. I wanted to go and knock on the door and apologize, but it felt awkward, so I didn't.

(CROSSTALK)

TAKEI: I thought I would do it the following morning. It was even more awkward then and I never did. And so I'm using my memory of that discussion to apologize.

BALDWIN: It's on every night here on Broadway.

TAKEI: Eight times a week.

BALDWIN: That's incredible.

George Takei, what a story. Thank you so much.

"Allegiance" on Broadway.

TAKEI: "Allegiance."

BALDWIN: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)