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Donald Trump: I Did Not Suggest Muslim Database in the United States; Hackers Working in Shadows to Disrupt Terror Groups. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired November 20, 2015 - 15:30   ET


[15:32:37] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Bottom of the hour. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

On to politics we go because the whole Muslim database in the United States, that whole idea, yes, Donald Trump now saying not his idea. He just tweeted this. Quote 'I didn't suggest a database, a reporter did. We must defeat Islamic terrorism and have surveillance, including a watch list to protect America." He definitely raised some eyebrows last night there in Iowa when it appeared to support precisely this kind of database to register and track Muslims in the U.S. Here he was talking to a journalist with NBC News.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Should there be a database that tracks Muslims in this country?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There should be a lot of systems beyond database. We should have a lot of systems. And today, you can do it. But right now, we have to have a border. We have to have strength. We have to have a wall. We cannot let what's happening to this country happen.


TRUMP: I would certainly implement that, absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: What do you think it effect of that would be?

TRUMP: It would stop people from coming from illegally. We have to stop people from coming in to our country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: On Muslims specifically, how do you get them registered?

TRUMP: It would be just good management. You have to do good management procedures. And we can do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Do you go to mosques to sign these people up?

TRUMP: Different places. You sign them up at different places, but it's all about management. Our country has no management.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Mr. Trump, how would Muslim database would not be the same thing as requiring Jews to register in Nazi Germany? What would be the difference? Is there a difference between the two? Is there a difference?

TRUMP: Who are you with?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: I'm with NBC NEWS. Is there a difference between requiring Muslims registering Jews?

TRUMP: You tell me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Do you believe there is? Should Muslims be, I mean, fearful? Will there be consequences if they don't register?


BALDWIN: All right, so wanted to play that for you in its entirety. Trump did not say a word about the database controversy when he spoke at a rally just a little while ago in South Carolina.

Let's talk about this. Michael Smerconish in our weekly Friday date. Michael Smerconish radio host and anchor of CNN's "SMERCONISH" is here.

All right. So now we have this tweet. You know, he hadn't said anything from last night. He says I did not suggest this database. The reporter got me there, which is true. But I believe the word he used was certainly.

[15:35:01] MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: OK. I didn't suggest it, but I go beyond databases. That's point one that he offered. Certainly, I would implement that. That's point two. And thirdly, how do you do it, through good management.

I mean, come on. He has a habit of doing this, of trying to walk these sort of things back. And I think it's important that he and the others be held accountable. He was asked a question, a fair question. He responded to it. He can't then lay off his response on the fact that he was asked the question. I would go further and say this was not a proud week for politics in America because it is not just Trump and databases and this is incomplete list.

John Kasich, for whom I have a great deal of respect, talking about the need to confront all of this by spreading Judeo Christian values. Frankly, I think that's playing their game of trying to turn this into a war and we are the crusaders in that type of a mindset.

How about Cruz and Jeb talking about religious tests or Governor Christie saying, no, not even to orphans. And then, of course, there's Doctor Carson who equates --

BALDWIN: Roll the sound byte.


BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If there's a rabid dog running around your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog and you probably going to put your children out of the way. Doesn't mean that you hate all dogs.


BALDWIN: Continue.

SMERCONISH: That's not who we are. I mean, I don't think any of these -- I think it has brought out the absolute worst. Cut some slack to them, only because it's campaign season. And frankly, they are trying to reach the lowest common denominator because those are the folks that come out and are the most reliable voters.

BALDWIN: All about that base.

SMERCONISH: Yes. It is all about that base. And just so I'm an equal opportunity offender, the week began with a Democratic debate on Saturday night, which began with all of the semantic gymnastics over the use of words of radical Islam which I am entirely comfortable with. The reports today from Mali are that they arrived, the gunmen did, shouting Allah Akbar and that if you could recite Koranic verses, you were allowed to leave. We have to deal with this. Let's have an open dialogue and bring it all in.

BALDWIN: Who does all of these the headlines with regard to Paris, Belgium, Syria, Mali, of all these candidates who wants to be president, who does it help or hurt the most?

SMERCONISH: I think in the short-term, the Donald may actually benefit. Because I think in some of the talk of bombing, I say, the crap out of them plays well with his constituency and they don't appear to be bonding him any time soon.

My hope is that in the long-term, there's going to be a more cerebral approach and the thought and that doesn't mean weakness, but the thought and deliberation and how we really win in the global sense of this is going to prevail. And so, that wouldn't favor the bombast at the outset. The dust hasn't settled. There was another attack we are still dealing with. And so, I think that when we get beyond some of this, you will see a different group emerge.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about the Syrian and Iraqi refugees in this whole debate. We know the house vote yesterday and the fact that these latest polls, we heard from Bloomberg poll 53 percent of American saying should not accept any Syrian refugees. Now we have this new "Washington Post"/ABC News poll, 54 percent say should not take the refugees.

So you have the House of Representatives, you have the majority of Americans, do you think that the White House is increasingly isolated on this?

SMERCONISH: I do. And the fact that 47 Democrats in the house -- BALDWIN: Yes, this was not on party lines.

SMERCONISH: Start with the Republicans, I think is the most significant part of the data. When you delve in to the internals, you find that you're absolutely right, whether it's 53 or 54 percent, it's seven or eight of every 10 Republicans. So among the GOP, they are really hardened in opposition.

I think that there is a lot of misinformation as to what the vetting process entails. I think there's a misperception among many Americans that you simply allow them to walk right into this country and that there's no vetting whatsoever and we allow them to assume identities, which is not the case.

BALDWIN: Michael Smerconish, tune in 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. Thank you so much, sir. I really appreciate it.

SMERCONISH: Me too. Thank you.

BALDWIN: The coalition is fighting ISIS, of course, from the air. There is a group of hackers fighting ISIS online. You have probably never heard of them, but they are making strive in taking them down. We'll tell you about it with Laurie Segall, coming up.

But first, some happy news on this Friday, if I may. CNN is about to celebrate the amazing work of this year's top ten CNN heroes of an all-star tribute on Sunday, December 6th at 8:00 eastern. Here's a look behind the scenes.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: I'm inside the museum of natural history. We are set to honor ten everyday people who are doing truly extraordinary things. I'm giving you your very own backstage pass. Let's get going.

Since 2007 CNN heroes has been an annual event from assembling the stage to placing the cameras and rolling out the red carpet, this army of pros knows what it takes to make this evening memorable.

How do you keep it fresh?

[15:30:10] KELLY FLYNN, CNN SENIOR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Keep it fresh. Ten new heroes every year.


FLYNN: Great story.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: It's Anderson Cooper and a-Lister's galore turned out to salute our honorees for their work helping others. Rising music (INAUDIBLE) star was drawn to the evening's positive message.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A purpose for creating a song in the beginning is it's something encouraging and inspiring and healing for people. So I think it works well with the theme of tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A 21,000-pound blue whale rarely has to share the spotlight, but on this night, our top 10 CNN heroes will take center stage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The minute you walk into the place, you're just overwhelmed. It's intense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This event is going to be spectacular.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And maybe motivate all of us to make an impact.



[15:45:31] BALDWIN: You can call it the unauthorized war against ISIS. There are no missiles, no bombs, instead a small army of hackers is working in the shadows to disrupt terror groups and how they operate online. In a rare interview, CNN Money tech correspondent Laurie Segall talks with a secretive leader to one of these hacking groups.


LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Anonymous, the hack-tivist group shrouded in secrecy has declared war on ISIS following the attacks in Paris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a message to ISIS. You have reached your limit.

SEGALL: They claim to have disabled thousands of pro-ISIS twitter accounts. But there's another technically sophisticated group fighting an online war with ISIS. They call themselves Ghost Security Group. It is lesser known but has a track radar. Its leaders and ex- anonymous member, a man who calls himself Digita shadow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My online name is Digita Shadow. The Islamic State is hunting for us. We receive multiple threats daily. That's exactly the reason why we can't use our real online names. To date we have taken down 14G Islamic State propaganda sites, 110,000 social media accounts and over 6,000 propaganda videos.

SEGALL: CNN cannot independently verify this information. Digita Shadow says he is one of 14 members of the secretive group who says it's been infiltrating private ISIS communications since the "Charlie Hebdo" attack earlier this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are murdering people, persecuting from their religious believes, expelling them from their lands. Just appalling. Something has to be done. They have to be slowed down and stopped.

SEGALL: Ghost security's members say they are a global mix of ex- military, ex-counterintelligence and IT specialists. So what makes them different from anonymous? They share their Intel with the U.S. government. They funnel potential threats and information on ISIS operatives through one man, intelligence adviser Michael Smith, who then passes it on to U.S. law enforcement officials.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They use me to present information to federal authorities here in the United States. That information is sometimes shared with officials abroad.

SEGALL: (INAUDIBLE), the group is actually thwarted several ISIS attacks. He cites an example in Tunisia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The group was able to identify communications concerning a plot targeting British tourists and Jews at a popular marketplace in Germa, Tunisia. And there were more than a dozen arrests made as a result of the information that was collected by Ghost Security. I mean, more people were apprehended than at this it point are known to be involved with the plot in Paris. A loss of life conceivably could have been greater than what just occurred in Paris.

SEGALL: But even though Ghost Security says they use hacking skills for good, it may still be operating outside the bounds of the law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It really does fall into a big grey area. Yes, is hacking illegal, absolutely. Is fighting ISIS to try and stop threats and stop their propaganda, would that be considered illegal, it falls into a giant grey area.

SEGALL: You are telling me you are working kind of 24/7 on this. Are you compensated?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not compensated whatsoever. We are independent organization. We survive off donations alone.

SEGALL: Despite struggling to make ends meet, Digita Shadow says they won't stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we were to stop now, lives would be at risk. It's not a choice. It's more of a way of life for us now.


BALDWIN: More of a way of life.


BALDWIN: Laurie Segall. And so, he, this person, who we don't know who this person is, is American, but they have people in the Middle East.

SEGALL: All over the world. So 14 core members. Middle East, Europe and the United States. And then another handful of members that they say are all around that help manage social media accounts, Brooke.

BALDWIN: As far as hackers like this guy and the government and he talks about this grey area of the law, but the relationship between the two is pretty interesting.

SEGALL: Yes. It's fascinating because if we remember like, hackers are traditionally very anti-establishment, very anti-government especially anonymous. But these guys are saying we kept finding all this really valuable information. They kept trying to go to the FBI hotline. Couldn't get through. And they found these potential attacks in Tunisia and they said we need to find someone. And Mike Smith that you heard from, took him seriously enough. And now they developed a working relationship.

BALDWIN: A working relationship.

SEGALL: Yes. It's an interesting. So Michael Smith says this is by the book. They change their ways a little bit. They are collecting data. You speak to the hacker, Digita Shadow, that was his name, and he'll tell you a bit of a different story. He told he told me we only hack when there's really lives at risk. So there definitely is that grey area of legality, Brooke.

[15:50:06] BALDWIN: Hearing all these different voices, all these people you find, Laurie Segall, keep finding them and telling your stories.

SEGALL: You got it.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Now to this, 100 percent preventable, that is what sexual assault activists say about rape on campus, a crime that can be ended. Coming up next I talk with two pretty incredible young women who are really the stars of thrust behind this new CNN film, the hunting ground, their stories and more on their movement for change next.


[15:55:01] BALDWIN: This Sunday will be a special night here on CNN. It is the premiere of "the hunting ground." The film is an inspiring look at how two college students, who are incredible strong young women, might I add, both survivors of sexual assault join together to challenge universities on how to take sexual assault much more seriously. And we are fortunate enough to be joined now by Annie and Andrea.

So thank you so much for being here. We all went to the same college. We have that in common. And let's get right to it into this story.

First, just both to you all, I mean, talk about the journey from what I imagine was one of the most horrendous, you know, experiences of your lives to how you have now as young women turned this into a massive movement for change. How?

ANNIE CLARK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR/CO-FOUNDER, END RAPE ON CAMPUS: Well, thank you for having us here. I think it's really important to acknowledge that we are just two of many, many college students who face something like this. And it was, you know, only after years of hearing similar stories that I even decided to come public. And after meeting Andrea, you know, we put our names and faces to an issue.

ANDREA PINO, CO-FOUNDER, END RAPE ON CAMPUS: And I think, Brooke, we are also hearing same too of many students working on this issue, but I mean, we were just students, it was reading course material and being in the law school libraries, they were able to figure out title 9 was and figure out what happened to us wasn't isolated.

BALDWIN: That's the thing. So you're not lawyers. Nobody has gone to law school yet that I'm aware of.


BALDWIN: Not yet, she says. I love that. So here, when I think of title 9, we have covered a lot of title 9, right, it's when the law requires schools to fund women's sports. How did you take title 9 though and apply it toward sex assault survivors?

CLARK: Right. So a lot of people think of title 9 in terms of sports, but it's an educational equity law. And so, basically regardless of your gender you can't be denied equal access to your education. And so what we learned from studying law cases and 1970 and 1980 is that women argued that pervasive climate of sexual harassment meant that their educational experiences weren't equal. And so, we said if education wasn't equal because of harassment, it definitely is not equal because of rape.

And if women not just that one instance but if you are afraid to go to the library at night, if you change your jogging course around campus, if you change your major, all of those things speak to education equity and therefore were violations of title 9.

BALDWIN: Do you feel like -- I mean, we were even covering on my show the vice president last week at Syracuse. So, you know, he has been such an issue for him and so passionate about talking about sexual assault. I'm wondering though like since you guys were at Carolina, do you feel like there's been real change not just, you know, in North Carolina but nationwide? Like real actual change.

PINO: I think we're at the tipping point of this issue. I think we're finally at the point where it's a national agenda item. And I think it took a very long time because when we came forward this was not a conversation. We had reporters laughing at us.

BALDWIN: The University laughed at you.

PINO: The University told us our allegations were false, untrue and just plain wrong.

BALDWIN: I don't like to hear that.

PINO: And I would say definitely change has come and I really thank, you know, the White House for being so proactive on this issue more than any other administration before. But I do think it has largely been on the backs of students. It's been us sacrificing our education, you know, sacrificing our 20s and sacrificing our college experience to do this work. And I think it's unacceptable. I think we have to be much more proactive on this issue. And I think administrations shouldn't wait until they're called out to do something (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: How do you though measure change? Because to me it's seems like it is almost like a cultural shift on campus or you never really know how many people this is affecting because so many people don't come forward. Do you know what I'm saying?

CLARK: Yes, absolutely. And I think change happens in two ways, and one is policy change. And we are starting to see that both on the federal level with Senator Kirsten Gillibrand and on the state level with affirmative consent policies and education starting in high school and middle school that desperately needs to happen.

But you also need culture change. And you can't legislate culture change. And like Andrea was saying, it shouldn't be on the backs of, you know, those mostly effected. So women of color, LGBT students, student survivors, and we need allies and we need parents as well.

BALDWIN: I love that, you know, we were talking before and you said parents should be watching, young men should be watching Sunday night. Just quickly let me get into some of the criticisms, though, of the film. You know, some people have said that this problem of sexual assault on campuses has been overblown, that you are only talking to victims. Your response to that and what do you hope will come from this airing on CNN on Sunday?

CLARK: I think the first thing some of the statistics have been called out. They have been vetted. There have been numerous studies. The statistics are right. But even if they weren't, even if it wasn't one in five, if it was one in 20 or one in 100, if one in 100 students laptops were stolen, right, we would have this conversation. And yet we're not having it about sexual assault. And it's unacceptable.

PINO: And also for so long this wasn't a conversation. I mean, survivors were not getting media coverage. I mean, even for us to get to the point where administration were listening to us was really, really difficult.

BALDWIN: Annie, Andrea, thank you both so much.

Make sure you watch "the Hunting Ground" that airs this Sunday night 8:00 eastern right here on CNN.

I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. Thank you so much for being with me this Friday. Have a wonderful weekend.

But stay right here. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper live from Pairs starts now.