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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Mali Hotel Attack; Paris Terror Attacks Ringleader on CCTV. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired November 20, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:00:27] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow, live in Paris, where it is just past 6:00 in the evening. We are following the latest developments on the investigation into the deadly terror attack just one week ago.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Ashleigh Banfield, live in New York City. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW. We're also following two breaking stories today.

First to the breaking news in Mali. A week to the day of the coordinated terror attacks in Paris, another terrifying siege, this one at the Radisson Blu Hotel in Bamako, the capital of the west African nation of Mali. An unknown number of attackers carrying AK-47s arrived in a vehicle with diplomatic plates on it. They stormed into the hotel this morning, firing their guns and taking roughly 170 people hostage.

We are now hearing there are no more hostages inside that hotel and AFP is reporting two gunmen were killed. But it is still very much an active situation. A colonel in the Mali army says there are still attackers who are inside the hotel and 10 people have been found dead in one of the hallways. Most of the hostages from multiple countries did manage to escape this ordeal. And there were six American citizens among them.

Our Robyn Kriel joins me live now from Nairobi, Kenya.

Robyn, get us up to speed on the very latest on the situation there.

ROBYN KRIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a Malian of ministry security minister told journalists, AFP, in fact, that the hostages had all been freed and that two gunmen had been killed. However, they have not said that the operation is by any means over. It is a huge hotel, about 190 rooms, I believe, and they're still going, clearing room by room.

We do have a local journalist on the scene who says that he can see military men working through room by room, checking to make sure that there are no gunmen. Now, whether there were just two or whether there are still gunmen on the loose, that is what they're trying to ascertain. As you said, a number of people were freed or either escaped the terrible hostage situation, but we do understand that the number of dead could rise. We are hearing that it could rise quite substantially from 10. The AFP is reporting 18. We're hearing it could go even higher than that.

BANFIELD: All right, Robyn Kriel, thank you for that.

I want to get the very latest now from Mongi Hamdi, who's a special representative and head of the U.N. stabilization mission in Mali. He joins me live now.

Sir, if you could just get me up to speed on what you are hearing given the fact that you have so many of your U.N. staffers who were actually at that hotel. What do you know about their safety and about the hostage takers?

MONGI HAMDI, SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE, U.N. MISSION IN MALI (via telephone): Yes. Early this morning we sent a large number of force - security forces to be exact. We sent almost 40 vehicles (ph) down. They went inside the hotel to participate and to collaborate and to further to - with the Malian security forces. We were able to evacuate some of our staff. In fact, we had the - from the U.N. system (ph) of our private staff. We - they - we evacuated all of them. We were also able to evacuate a large number for the participants in the meeting of the committee (INAUDIBLE) of the peace agreement - of the Mali peace agreement that have been attending a meeting that started yesterday here in Bamako within the framework of the peace process (ph).

I just want to add here the significance of this attack. I think there - this attack has been perpetrated by negative forces, by terrorists who do not want to see peace in Mali, who are trying to make all efforts to (INAUDIBLE) peace process and the - by attacking the hotel today at the time when we have this very important meeting. I think it has a lot of significance. The (INAUDIBLE) now not only a minister (ph) and the Malian forces and the Malian government, but also affecting the - all of Malian partners that they have signed agreements. But the - the much -

[12:05:09] BANFIELD: Can I ask you -

HAMDI: Yes? Yes?

BANFIELD: I'm sorry to interrupt, Mr. Hamdi, but I'm just so curious, there are varying reports that have been coming out regarding the situation currently.

HAMDI: Yes.

BANFIELD: Some reports say it's over. Others reports say that there are no more hostages being held in that hotel. And yet other reports say this situation is not over. Are you getting any more clarity on whether there are still live gunmen hold up in that hotel or whether the two who are dead, according to (INAUDIBLE) are it?

HAMDI: Well, as we speak now, and this is the information from our security forces, we can't say with certainty that the operation is fully over. But it is almost over. Unfortunately, there are a large number of victims. We are slow (ph) can confirm the deaths of two terrorists. We also can confirm that we are almost at the end of the operation, but they cannot say with certainty that the operation is over now. They are still looking at the last pockets in the hotel to make sure that there is no surprise.

BANFIELD: And I - I do want to ask you about another report, and given that you had, you know, upwards, I think, of 50 different U.N. staffers who were at this hotel at some point, there is a report that these killers were segregating the victims and asking them to recite a Shihada (ph), a Muslim pledge of sort, and releasing those who could cite it. Have you been able to speak with any of your U.N. staffers who have been able to verify that or knock that story down, either way?

HAMID: Yes, I just want to clarify something. The 50 U.N. staffers are not staying in the hotel, but rather security forces that we have mobilized responding to help the Malian security forces rescue the clients of the hotel.

With respect to what you just mentioned with the recite of the Shihada, I have not heard (INAUDIBLE) and - but we'll soon find out. My - our security forces did not inform us about this but I cannot confirm or deny it, frankly. I have not heard about it.

BANFIELD: Mr. Mongi Hamdi, thank you so much for taking part in this interview today and for helping us at this difficult time. We do appreciate your time and your insight.

I want to go now to terror analyst Paul Cruickshank, who's live with us in Paris right now.

I know you've been able to work your source, Paul, and there are those who have come forward claiming responsibility for this. What are you hearing?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Ashleigh, that's right, there has been a claim of responsibility distributed on a Sahara jihadi media portal. That claim of responsibility coming from al Qaeda- aligned groups in the region. And the U.S. government analysts are look into these claims at the moment. But the claim is that this was the responsibility of al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, working together with Almurbitum. Now, Almurbitum is a group which was founded by Moktar Belmoktar, a one-eyed Algerian terrorist who was responsible for that hostage siege in southern Algeria at a gas plant in 2013. Also his group responsible for an attack on a restaurant, (INAUDIBLE), in Bamako in March of this year. Belmoktar was targeted in a U.S. air strike in Ajdabia (ph), Libya, in June of this year and his fate is uncertain. But his group, and al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, claiming responsibility for this, Ashleigh.

It appears to be perhaps if it is indeed them, an attempt to compete with ISIS, because, of course, ISIS has had this big propaganda victory in recent weeks with the attacks on the Russian jet and also here in Paris and there's this competition globally between the two organizations, a sort of oneupmanship, and so this could well be al Qaeda here, their response to the Paris attacks. And maybe we'll see another response from ISIS. This is a very worrying competition between the two groups.

BANFIELD: But, Paul -

CRUICKSHANK: One extra point here. From - from - you know, when you're looking at this attack, this idea that they were separating Muslims from non-Muslims is also the al Qaeda M.O. right now. In 2013, the leader of al Qaeda sent out guidelines saying that the group should not kill Muslims. Should do everything possible not to kill Muslims. ISIS hasn't put out that same sort of guidance. So it may well have been a group reacting to those guidelines put out by al Qaeda, absolutely chilling guidelines put out by al Qaeda, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And I - and I have to be really clear, we have yet to get that confirmation. This came from a reporter who was cited in "The New York Times." So we still don't know for sure if that was happening, but we'll continue to watch that.

[12:10:10] In the meantime, our Erin Burnett was able to speak with someone who was actually inside the hotel, saying that the one attacker who had burst in with an AK was dressed in very western clothing, jeans and a plaid shirt and a hat, and that that person was speaking in a local language, not speaking Arabic, not speaking French. And so did that tell you anything about whether this was a local group sort of jockeying for position with other terror groups or does it tell you nothing at all?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, there's a lot of confusion in the early reporting, often, but it would stand to reason that they've recruited people from Mali, people from the region to launch this attack. The group, these various jihadi groups, have a presence in the northeast of the country in particular. About 1,000 French special forces, U.N. forces trying to sort of cleanse those regions from these various jihadi groups. They were pretty successful doing that in 2013, but over the last year or two, these jihadi groups have grown stronger, the insurgency has grown stronger. They've targeted increasingly U.N. forces. And there's all these weapons that have come in from Libya. The region is destabilize and these jihadi groups are flourishing and competing, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Our Paul Cruickshank live for us in Paris. Thank you for that.

Coming up next, our other big story of the day, another victim of last Friday's terror attacks in Paris has died and another body has been found in the rubble of this week's raid that ended the attack ringleader's life. We're going to take you live to Paris next on LEGAL VIEW.

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[12:15:58] HARLOW: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to LEGAL VIEW. I'm Poppy Harlow, along with Ashleigh Banfield, coming to you live tonight from Paris, France.

One week ago since those horrific ISIS terror attacks unleashed a wave of suicide bombings and mass shooting in this iconic city of lights. The death toll now rising. The French prime minister saying just a few hours ago that one more victim has died. That brings the total number of murdered to 130 killed inside a concert hall, outside of a stadium, and at multiple cafes and restaurants.

We also know that a third body has not yet been identified, but it has been found in the rubble of Wednesday's violent raids in the suburb of Saint-Denis. That is when the mastermind of the Paris attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, was killed, along with his cousin, a female, who blew herself up when police came looking for Abaaoud. Authorities now have surveillance video as well of Abaaoud in Paris, in the Metro, in the subway station on Friday night while all of these attacks were underway. That is just remarkable. Those images not yet being made public.

And French police continue to make the most of their emergency powers, carrying out an additional 182 raids in just the past day. They took 17 more people into custody overnight. They have seized 76 more weapons. Consider these numbers. In the past five days they have searched almost 800 places with 90 people taken into custody and they have seized 174 weapons.

Let's go straight to CNN's Nic Robertson, who is following all the latest on these developments and more.

Nic, it is astonishing to learn, as we have today, that the ringleader, the mastermind, well known to authorities, anti-terrorism authorities around the world, was riding the Metro, the train on Friday night here while his counterparts were carrying out these horrific attacks. How can that be?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's a staggering piece of information for the investigators to learn that right under their noses the ringleader was here. Also, a piece - perhaps a piece of information that will help them in the puzzle of how they put all of this together, the Metro station he was spotted on, on the CCTV, was very close to where one of the vehicles that was used by the attackers was discovered. So does this mean that he was actually in direct personal contact with them, you know, in the hours before they launched their attack, giving them final instruction, perhaps involved in distributing the, you know, weapons or explosive vests. We just don't know. This is something investigators are no doubt working on.

But it is staggering also in the CCTV video, he appears to sort of seen, you know, going through the Metro station there without - without paying for a ticket. This is a man who kind of sort of have a low profile. Why would he be acting in this sort of way. Even that doesn't add up.

HARLOW: Wow.

ROBERTSON: So this is a - this is a puzzle for all of us who look at it and wonder just how it could have happened. For the police, obviously, it's an important lead in the investigation as they dig deeper, Poppy.

HARLOW: Absolutely, Nic Robertson, stay with me, because I want to get Paul Cruickshank's take on the fact that you still have Salah Abdeslam, the eighth attacker on Friday night, on the run, last seen driving from Paris towards Belgian. He's still on the run. It's astonishing to me that you have literally police officers, experts from around the world looking for him, not even a lead.

CRUICKSHANK: Not even a lead, and - but, of course, he was stopped, 9:00 in the morning on the Saturday after the attack, by the French as he approached in his car, when he got picked up in Paris by two friends from Molenbeek that night, put out - put out an urgent phone call, come and pick me up, and was then stopped in this road stop. They were stopping a lot of the traffic going in to Belgium. That they, at that point, did not know that he was a suspect. They let him go. They arrested the two friends in Molenbeek. But by the time they moved in, he was gone. They have no idea if he even got to Brussels or not. He could be just about anywhere in Europe by now.

[12:20:08] But he's the most wanted man in Europe. So it's going to be very, very difficult for him to move around from place he may try to seek out support of the people he knows. The people he knows are based in Molenbeek.

HARLOW: Sure.

CRUICKSHANK: So I think there's some concern that he could be in Brussels hiding out in the cellar of a friend or something like that.

HARLOW: That is - that is per capita sent the most westerners to join the jihad. Not sent, but have gone from Brussels. At least 500 of them have gone the Syria and Iraq to join with ISIS.

Nic Robertson, to you. You just came from this army recruitment center and a lot of what we've been talking about all week, and we don't have Nic any more - but what we've been talking about all week is the fact that they don't have the staff. They don't have enough officers to keep an eye on all of these ISIS sympathizers that they're watching. Nic just told me, being at this recruitment center, he saw how much that is ramping up. What will we see change here in these next three months that France is likely going to be in the state of emergency, which gives the police sweeping powers to detain more people, preventative detention, much more of these raids. What - what becomes the new normal here?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, they're clearly going to try and hire more people. They're going to put more resources into counter terrorism. There's going to be sort of - they're going to tell the public, you know, you've got to be careful. If you see something, say something. Take security precaution. It's really changed the whole mood of Europe when it comes to security.

But here's the problem, Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes.

CRUICKSHANK: I mean even if they triple the resources - I've been speaking to European counterterrorism officials, they - they - that still won't give them enough resources to deal with a scale this - the fact that they're having to monitor thousands, if not tens of thousands of people who have suspected ties to radicalism across Europe.

HARLOW: Sure.

CRUICKSHANK: They're overstretched. They're exhausted right now this week and -

HARLOW: What about the cooperation, the intelligence cooperation globally, right? We know the United States has now given over what they call the raw intelligence to the French. That's a really big deal. But at the same time, you've got Morocco, was really integral in tracking down Abaaoud. He comes from Moroccan origin. They had eyes on him. We're told today that they knew that he was in France and then you would assume immediate told French authorities but it was too late. How critical are these other players, especially Middle Eastern players, in this?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, it wasn't too late to prevent the - the second spectacular attack -

HARLOW: Stop the second one.

CRUICKSHANK: That they were planning. So it was absolutely vital intelligence. The French have already said, thank you very much to the Moroccans on this. What the Moroccans have not said is what kind of intelligence this was. How do they know that he was in Paris. But it's possible certainly that there was some kind of intercepted communication going from family members in Morocco to family members in Paris. There was this cousin who was living in Paris, who ended up being in that apartment in Saint-Denis, where they were all holed up. And we - we have been told that an intercepted communication played a key role in them locating this group at the Saint-Denis safe house.

HARLOW: Right. Wow. Paul Cruickshank, thank you very much for your expertise on both Mali and on this ongoing situation here in Paris.

You know, the worst of the carnage on the horrific night, Friday night, one week ago here in Paris, took place at the Bataclan theater where we know about 90 people were murdered. Attackers armed with Kalashnikov rifles and wrapped in explosives opened fire on these concertgoers until an elite unit of French police moved in. NBC News anchor Lester Holt spoke with the captain who led that raid. And we want you to hear his remarkable account of what happened.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We took position at the enter of the theater, and then we discover like a hell on earth. I mean more than maybe 7,000 to 8,000 people were lay on the floor.

LESTER HOLT, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Seven, maybe 800?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Laying on the floor. Tons of blood everywhere. No sound. Nobody was screaming. In the last door, we approach the door and suddenly one of the terrorists on the stage, we don't know, asks us to go backwards. So I try to speak with them and he told me that he wanted to negotiate. So I, OK, said give me a phone number. As soon as we opened the door, the terrorists - one of the terrorists, they shoot like between 25 to 30 rounds of AK-47 bullets. So 7.62 (ph) caliber

HOLT: And that's a - these are the - the holes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. Immediately the guy in the middle of the group, he got hit in the hand, so he fell down because of the pain and fell down -

HOLT: One of your officers was hit?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes. In the middle of the group. First thing we saw that the guy shooting, and a lot of maybe 20 hostage between the shooter and us. We cannot shoot at that time, because it was too risky for the hostages. At the end of the hallway, we found the two terrorists. It was like a dead end for them. And the first one blew himself with the - with the explosive jacket. And the second one tried to do the same, but he was shot by the two first BRI officers.

[12:25:07] HOLT: They were both wearing suicide vests?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.

HOLT: And one of them went off?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. The blood everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Unbelievable to hear that first-hand account. The same French police unit rescued hostages from that kosher market here in January after the "Charlie Hebdo" rampage.

Also I want you to go to cnn.com/impact. That is our Impact your World page. We have been gathering ways where you can support this city, it's people, the victims of Friday's attack. Go to cnn.com/impact.

A quick break. On the other side, we will take you back to that hotel siege in Mali. Still a very fluid situation. Much more breaking news ahead, next.

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[12:29:58] BANFIELD: I want to take you back to the breaking news out of Mali. It is still a very active situation there. Attackers who stormed the Radisson Blu Hotel in the capital of Bamako this morning are still inside that hotel. But we've also learned that two gunmen are dead