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Not A Woman Who Set Off Suicide Vest; At Least 10 Killed In Hotel Siege In Mali; Videos Threaten Attacks In U.S. And Europe; Growing Calls For Visa Waiver Rule Change; Hotel Siege; Frontline Near Raqqa. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 20, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in Bamako, Mali, 7:00 p.m. in Paris. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And there's break -- major breaking news unfolding. Today marks one week since the horrific terror attacks in Paris. France's prime minister is now saying another person from that massacre has died. That brings the death toll to 130. There are also important new developments in the overall investigation. Authorities now say the woman thought to be a suicide bomber in Wednesday's raid did not blow herself up.

Our International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson is joining us from Paris right now. And, Nic, what are authorities now saying about how this woman died and who she actually was?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, she may well have not blown herself up in a suicide explosion which is what we're being told now. Now, the police say it is possible that she was caught in the explosion of either Abdelhamid Abaaoud's blowing himself up or detonating his explosives or what we have discovered through the day -- through this day by -- from investigators is that there were actually three people killed in that apartment building in Saint Denis. We had originally been told it was two, then possibly two or three.

The investigators, Wolf, have had a hard time going through that apartment and discerning precisely what happened, 5,000 rounds fired, a lot of grenades fired, a lot of heavy explosives used to breech the entry to get into the doors there.

So, we were told that Abaaoud's body itself had multiple, multiple impacts on it. But now, they're making this very, very clear distinction that Hasna Aitboulahcen is the cousin of Abaaoud believed previously to have been a suicide bomber, therefore believed to be the first female suicide bomber to detonate her suicide vest in Europe.

That appears now, from what the police are saying, not to be the case. How else is this going to change the investigation? It's not clear. But what it does tell us, Wolf, is the painstaking way investigators are going through this situation. They're learning new details all the time. And sometimes, the new details contradict what they previously understood. So, a very, very difficult and lengthy process involved in this investigation -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And, Nic, the surveillance video has now (INAUDIBLE) Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the Paris attack ring leader who was killed in the raid. Where is this new video that we're now getting from and what does it show?

ROBERTSON: It's from a subway station in one of Paris' suburbs. What's significant about this subway station, i8t's close to where one of the black vehicles was dumped by the attackers. So, it raises the question, because this video was shot at about 10:00 p.m. in the evening and the attacks took place 9:20 going through to about 9:50.

So, it gives the impression, potentially, he was there in the Paris suburbs when the attackers left that vehicle there or did he park the vehicle for them? It raises the question, was he in direct contact with the attackers in the immediate minutes before they set off the detonator and explosives and began their -- began their assaults? So, again, another piece of the puzzle for investigators.

And remember this, Wolf, the French authorities that night, last Friday night, a week ago tonight, did not know he was in Paris. They believed that he might have been in Syria. It wasn't until three days later that Moroccan intelligence officials were able to tip them off because he was Belgian and Moroccan origin, tip them off and say actually he was on French territory.

So, now what they're doing, like any investigation, they've got their starting points. They've got the place that he died. They are able to backtrack through various means, through cell phone usage, perhaps through CCTV video. They know what they're looking for now so they can backtrack and go back through time and work out what he was doing in the days before. But this latest development potentially significant. Again, tying him closer and closer still to this attack last Friday -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson in Paris for us. Nic, stand by.

I want to get to another breaking story we're following right now, that brazen hotel attack in western Africa. It happened the capital of Mali, Bamako, a country that has seen its share of terror attacks. This one seemingly targeted foreign national staying at the Radisson Blue Hotel there, one of the nicest hotels in the country.

And among them were American, French and Chinese citizens. Nearly 12 hours after the siege started, Mali government officials said all hostages were cleared from the building. The Pentagon now also says that all U.S. defense military personnel have been accounted for who were in the Mali capital.

Joining us now from neighboring Nairobi, Kenya is our Correspondent Robyn Kriel. Robyn, what do we know about the gunmen and the casualty count? [13:05:01] ROBYN KRIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The casualty count, we

understand, is -- could be as low as 10. However, AFP are reporting from the scene that it's up to 18. And we're hearing from eyewitnesses that they do keep seeing more bodies come out so it could go up even from there, Wolf.

In terms of the attackers, we understand that there are at least two but possibly more. We -- from what we understand from eyewitnesses, at the moment, Special Forces from Mali and possibly from foreign governments as well, are going room to room searching and clearing each room looking for more attackers. As you know, a hotel of this size around 190 rooms, we understand, would be prime place for attackers to hide. They're also finding terrified hotel residents who didn't get caught up in this horrific hostage siege which lasted pretty much all day.

BLITZER: And -- but it -- basically, based on everything we're hearing, Robyn, it's over now, except for the search for the terrorists. Is that right?

KRIEL: Yes. From what we understand, there are no more hostages to be freed. So, those who survived are all free. We understand of the dead so far, only four nationalities thus far. There is one Belgian man, one French national and two Malian nationals that came from the United Nations earlier this morning.

We also understand that at least -- I mean, people from various nationalities were rescued and what I'm sure will turn out to be terrific stories coming up. Turkish nationals, Chinese nationals, Indian nationals, a -- two Germans and at least six U.S. citizens, we're told, were also rescued successfully.

So, these are sort of some of the positive stories coming out. And, of course, now it's going to be a matter of counting the dead and, obviously, going room to room to try and find those who are still hiding, be they good or bad.

BLITZER: All right. Robyn Kriel reporting for us from Nairobi. Robyn, thanks very much. We'll stay in close touch with you.

I want to bring in Senator Ben Cardin, the ranking member -- or the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thanks very much for joining us. What can you tell us about this hostage situation, this attack on the Radisson Blue Hotel in Mali?

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D), RANKING MEMBER, SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Well, Wolf, obviously, we're watching this very closely. We don't have enough details to draw conclusions. We -- Al Qaeda's claimed credit. They're certainly interest as to whether ISIL had any influence on this terrorist attack or not.

The bottom line is that we need global attention and unity in fighting these terrorists. And that we need to be able to be prepared wherever they may try to attack. So, it's -- it just shows the vulnerability. Now, it's surprising. We know we've had attacks here before so we know of the terrorist threat in that region. We just need to be able to protect our global interests in a more unified way.

BLITZER: There's been some suspicion in the past, as you know, that ISIS terrorists in Mali have actually cooperated with Al Qaeda related terrorists in Mali. Have you heard that?

CARDIN: Well, they're -- you know, they're terrorists. And terrorists have a lot in common whether it be ISIL terrorists or whether they be Al Qaeda. They have different philosophies. ISIL is very much understood in taking territory and showing that they can hold territory.

And so, there are certainly relationships and that's one of the issues that we're going to be very interested in following the Mali attacks as to what relationship, if any, did this attack have with the ISIL command? And we'll get to the bottom of this. And we had presence in Mali because of the concern here. And we'll find out what happened.

BLITZER: I know you've been well briefed, Senator, on the Paris terror attacks. Is it the working assumption still, I've heard this but I want confirmation from you if you have it, that there are still other terrorists who were involved in that Paris attack still a terrorist cell, if you will, other ISIS terrorists at large in Paris or Belgium or the Netherlands or elsewhere.

CARDIN: Yes, the French are pretty confident that there are still terrorists at loose -- in the communities in Paris and elsewhere in that region. So, they are very concerned about that. That's why they're ongoing, actively doing the raids, getting as much information as possible. There's at least one perpetrator of the Paris attack that has not been accounted for yet that they believe is still in the region. So, yes, there is major concern that there are still terrorists at large that could be planning other attacks.

BLITZER: How seriously, Senator, do you take these threats and these ISIS propaganda videos that have been released against various targets, high-profile targets in New York City like Times Square or Washington, D.C., like the White House? How seriously are you taking those threats?

CARDIN: Well, the -- we take every threat seriously. The Department of Homeland Security knows of no credible information on any specific attack in the United States.

[13:10:05] We know that we're different than Europe. We have different systems in place. But, obviously, we have to be on our guard. We know that and in an open society like the United States with so many places that people congregate. And that individuals could be motivated to action that may not be part of the network. We've got to be very smart. We've got to do the best intelligence gathering in order to protect our homeland.

BLITZER: One quick question on this whole refugee debate that has surfaced here in the United States in the aftermath of the Paris terror attacks. You know the House of Representatives, yesterday, voted overwhelmingly, almost all of the Republicans and almost 50 Democrats voting to make it more difficult for refugees to come into the United States from Syria and Iraq. And to put it on pause, if you will, for the time being. That legislation is now going to come to the U.S. Senate. How are you going to vote on it?

CARDIN: Well, I think we're going to look at it in a more comprehensive way. We want to make sure that we have the strongest possible security clearances for all people who come to our country who are non-Americans. So, we want to make sure that no foreign fighters can get into America.

We are more concerned, quite frankly, about the visa waiver program where 10s of millions of people come into the United States. We have a lot of foreign fighters that are holding passports from countries that have a visa waiver program with the United States where these people can enter without a visa.

So, I think you're going to find in the Senate that we want to make sure we take all necessary steps. We know that we have rigorous security screenings for the refugee resettlements. Can we strengthen it? We'll look at it. But we also want to take a broader look as to how people come into our country.

BLITZER: So, you haven't decided yet. If that specific language in the House legislation comes to the Senate, you haven't decided yet whether you will vote yea or nay?

CARDIN: Well, I am concerned. The administration is telling us it could, in fact, put the refugee resettlement program on hold. I want to make sure there's justification for it going on hold.

At this moment, we have had not a single problem with a Syrian refugee who has come into America as far as any terrorist problems. They must establish themselves as being at risk, as being victims of terrorists. And they must go through screenings concerning their -- any connections to terrorist organizations or any criminal activities.

We're going to check to see if that's adequate. If we need to strengthen it, we'll strengthen it. We want to make sure that we do everything necessary to keep Americans safe. I'm not sure the House bill is the right way to go.

BLITZER: Senator Ben Cardin is a ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thanks very much for joining us.

CARDIN: My pleasure. Good to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Coming up, the copy-cat threats. CNN has now learned that the FBI is closely watching dozens of people here in the United States who could've been inspired by those terrorist attacks.

And we're also going to take a closer look at the hotel attack in Mali and who might have been behind it.

[13:13:02

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:05] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get back now to that hotel attack in Mali. Nearly 12 hours after the siege started at the Radisson Blu Hotel there, Mali government officials now say all hostages have been cleared from the building.

Let's talk more about this situation moving forward. Joining us is Tom Fuentes, our CNN law enforcement analyst, the former FBI assistant director, and Foria Younis, former FBI special agent, joint terrorism task force member, now a security consultant for overseas law enforcement.

Foria, you've been to Mali as - when you were in the U.S. government working at the FBI. When you heard about this attack at the Radisson Blu hotel today, what went through your mind?

FORIA YOUNIS, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, I looked to see why they attacked this hotel. And you can see the group is now calling themselves al Qaeda of West Africa. They've picked these when they - when the killers decide where they're going to attack, they look at a couple of things. One is, can they kill the people that they want to kill, which in this case seems to be foreigners, mainly French? Can they get past the security? And can they get the coverage that they want to inspire others? So in this particular case, they were able to get all of these things done. And as you might have heard, they were separating certain victims, letting some people go and then holding other people hostage.

BLITZER: And the people that they were letting go were?

YOUNIS: They were trying to see if they knew the basic Muslim prayer. If you could recite that basic prayer that almost every Muslim will know, they were letting those people go. So they were letting the Muslims go and keeping the others inside.

BLITZER: That was a pretty chilling situation.

You've never been to Mali, Tom, but you've covered these kinds of incidents all over the years - over the years when you were in the FBI. There were some U.S. personnel there on the ground. Presumably they were helping the Mali government.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I've been to a number of the countries in that neighborhood and all over Africa and, you know, typically, especially the really poor countries, they may have only one western standard hotel or one or two. So foreign businessmen coming in, whether from the U.S. or from Europe, are going to stay because of the quality of the hotel compared to everything else in that town. So that's why it's targeted. That's why these hotels get targeted like that, whether it's an American hotel, American-owned hotel in Pakistan or Africa or wherever it might be, but that's why. They know that when they go in there and kill people, they're going to be killing westerners.

BLITZER: That would be their goal.

How strong is al Qaeda in Mali?

YOUNIS: It's getting stronger. I mean there's a lot of weak governments there. They had that military coup that didn't succeed. So that's when a lot of these five militia groups were able to kind of come in and caused a lot of havoc. You have Boko Haram in Nigeria. And you have other unstable governments. And you have these (INAUDIBLE) people that live in the Sahara Desert. They're joining some of these groups and coming up to fight.

BLITZER: Can we assume, Tom, and it's an assumption, that what's going on in Mali right now has a connection to what happened a week ago last Friday night in Paris?

FUENTES: Well, the only reason to wonder is that this has been a steady drum beat of terrorism there on its own. So to link it just specifically to terrorist, maybe. It just may be business as usual for them.

BLITZER: And there's concern about copycats?

[13:20:01] FUENTES: Well, not just copycats. They've been doing this. They've been threatening. They've been attacking in Mali and in the neighboring countries and al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, which started in Algeria originally, attacked Algerians, Zawahiri 10 years ago said, wait a minute, if you want to carry the al Qaeda name, you have to kill westerns. So these groups have been expanding from northern Africa in - further south, sub-Saharan Africa, and they've been attacking westerners now. And in Mali we've seen that. In Libya and Algeria we've seen that as well where they're no longer just attacking their local interests, they're attacking western interests as well.

BLITZER: The French have played a significant role in dealing - in trying to deal with this terror threat in Mali.

YOUNIS: Yes, they have about 3,000 counterterrorism offices in that entire region of five countries and they definitely have a lot of people in Mali. They've had some - hostages killed in the past and they're doing other operations to help the government of Mali.

BLITZER: So when you were there, this is several years ago, you were part of, what, the joint terrorism task force?

YOUNIS: No, I was there from - with another U.S. government agency. And I'm speaking unofficially. And we were there providing some training to the government.

BLITZER: To the government of Mali.

YOUNIS: Yes. Yes.

BLITZER: All right, Foria, thanks very much. Tom, thanks to you as well.

Up next, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh got extraordinarily close to the front lines in the war against ISIS. He's standing by. He's inside Syria. He'll join us live when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:33] BLITZER: Welcome back to our viewer in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting.

Our senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh has just returned from the Kurdish front lines inside Syria. Nick is joining us now live.

Tell us what you saw. What's the situation on the ground, Nick?

NIC PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, from where we were about 20 miles away from the main city of Raqqa, which ISIS have declaring its capital of the caliphate, it was clear there are a lightly armed small number of Kurdish fighters. We didn't, ourselves, the time we were at the front, hear any of the very large number of loud explosions report by activists. We had a few thuds. But the activists - Raqqa (INAUDIBLE) silently, saying that they heard - there were four missiles in total that hit the western parts of Raqqa. They claim that they were Russian, although it's hard to tell quite how you would define that. And they also go on to say that, in fact, ISIS fired four missiles of their own, homemade missiles. What people on the front line refer to as Katyushas, at the direction of those front lines too. But you'll hear more of our reporting from the front line on Monday, Wolf.

BLITZER: Any indication, Nick, of an intensification, of Russian, French, U.S., Turkish air strikes on ISIS positions in and around Raqqa?

WALSH: Without a doubt. And certainly there's been no question that for the last four days there's been a significant uptick in the number of air strike. That's been visible from the front lines, everybody we spoke to, and it's caused a real concern, Wolf, about the civilian casualties because the severe number of targets that have suddenly become available in such a short window of time, varied as they are, with many asking really if the Americans are supplying information to the French, which appears to be the case of, why did the Americans not hit these targets earlier? Old targets being hit twice.

The Russians, careful (ph) it was trying to avoid civilian casualties, as the coalition and French say they are. And you have to remember that inside that city there are thousands of people, tens of thousands, it not hundreds of thousands who have been brutalized by ISIS, unable to leave and are now having what seems like vengeance against ISIS, exacted on the city that they live in at this stage.

We don't know the full details about civilian casualties. We know that the same activists we cite about the impact of the strikes say seven died two nights ago when a fuel truck was hit in that city. They were the first that they reported, but there could be more. And the impact is clear, too, and the ISIS leaders are fleeing, we are told, by some activists out to the east, but I think also some are digging in potentially for a longer fight here because I think Raqqa is very much in the crosshairs of what international reaction there may be, and it sits on a very empty, open plane surrounded by vast expanses of nothingness. Frankly, exposed, but also, you might argue, easily to defend and a lot of air power now over that city.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Raqqa, at one point before the civil war, was considered pretty secular, relatively liberal city of a few hundred - a couple hundred thousand. Any idea how many people are really left inside Raqqa right now? I assume most of the people have at least tried to flee.

WALSH: Well, way back in November 2013, we talked to secular inhabitants who had fled back then. Slowly their numbers, of course, and quicker once ISIS got into full swing, their numbers have dropped. But ISIS has brought in people with them too. Remember, those they held captive, those foreign fighters, those other Syrian fighters who have joined their ranks are now inside of Raqqa. It is, frankly, impossible to give you an accurate gauge of how many people are left inside, particularly now with the renewal of air strikes, particularly with the outside possibility that ISIS infrastructure there may not be as solid as it once was.

Remember, they have had a number of losses in the past few weeks or so. Jihadi John killed by an air strike. Not an operational figure but a symbolic one. Sinjar, a very symbolic and strategic town in Iraq, taken from them by the Peshmerga without much of a fight from ISIS. It's a key point because I think many have accessed that as the notion ISIS learned from the loss of Kobani, the lengthy siege of which - lost hundreds of their fighters and realized that in Sinjar they didn't want to hold out and perhaps didn't have the manpower to hold out. So pulled their people out.

[13:30:03] Sinjar sat on a key route between Mosul and Iraq and Raqqa in Syria. That's now cut off.