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Obama And Hollande Hold Joint News Conference; NATO Warplane Shoots Down Russian Warplane; Two World Leaders Discuss Terror, ISIS, Russia; Turkey Downs Russian Warplane; ISIS Strategy. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 24, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:12] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The two presidents, the president of the United States, the president of France, are wrapping up a one-hour news conference at the White House following important talks on what's going on in Iraq and Syria. This on a critically important day when there was an encounter, an ugly encounter, involving Russian and Turkish warplanes. This is a serious is situation.

Once again, we want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington.

We have our Chief White House Correspondent Jim Acosta standing by, our Chief National Correspondent John King, our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto and our Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour. They're all standing by.

Jim Acosta, we're going to get to him in moment, but let's start with Christiane Amanpour. Christiane, this is the first time I think since the 50s that a NATO warplane, an F-16 belonging (ph) to Turkey, a NATO ally, has shot down a Russian warplane. This represents a serious problem. I want you to listen to what the president had to say, urging everyone to avoid any escalation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Turkey, like every country, has a right to defend its territory and its airspace. I think it's very important right now for us to make sure that both the Russians and the Turks are talking to each other to find out exactly what happened and take measures to discourage any kind of escalation.

I do think that this points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations in the sense that they are operating very close to a Turkish border, and they are going after moderate opposition that are supported by not only Turkey but a wide range of countries. And if Russia is directing its energies towards DASH and ISIL, some of the conflicts or potentials for mistakes or escalation are less likely to occur.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: Christiane, hold on for one moment. Jim Acosta is in the White House, in the East Room of the White House, where this news conference took place. Jim, the president is clearly underscoring what has already been a very complicated situation even becoming much more complicated --

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

BLITZER: -- and even more dangerous right now in the aftermath of this Turkish downing of this Russian warplane.

ACOSTA: That's right. And you heard the president say when he was asked, did Turkey, in fact, shoot down that Russian warplane in Turkish airspace? He said, well, we're still gathering the facts.

But, at the same time, you know, the president made it very clear, at that point, that he said that this potential that Russia went into Turkey's airspace and, because of that, were shot down highlights this problem that they have been going after ISIS.

You have different characters with different goals carrying out different actions at the same time. The U.S. and its coalition going after ISIS and the understanding of the White House and the United States, Russia, at times, going after ISIS but also going after forces that are loyal to Bashar Al Assad. And this whole Turkish episode of shooting down that warplane just sort of highlights that entire episode.

But, you know, it is clear, from listening to president Obama and President Hollande during this news conference, Wolf, that they are very much on the same page.

And I thought it was very interesting when Francois Hollande said that the French do not intend to go into the ground -- into Syria militarily on the ground. That seemed to give President Obama a little bit breathing room, in terms of this global pressure. And especially coming from Republicans here in Washington that the president be much more severe in going after ISIS. Go in there on the ground. Put forces on the ground to root ISIS out of Raqqa.

So, the president did get a little bit of breathing room from Francois Hollande. But I think you also heard from Francois Hollande, at one point towards the end of this news conference, say France appreciates all of the emotion that's been expressed, appreciates all the compassion that has been shown to the French people. But he says we must act.

And it sounds like, Wolf, that Russia and Vladimir Putin has become such a problem for this U.S.-led coalition that Hollande is now, essentially, going to Moscow later this week. Not only on his own behalf, but on President Obama's behalf to see if he can also implore Vladimir Putin to get on the same page as this coalition in going after ISIS.

We saw a little bit of hope for that when the president met with Vladimir Putin in Turkey last week. But it -- he may need Francois Hollande to help close this deal, in terms of getting Vladimir Putin on the same page. He's not there, at this point. And you can hear, from this president, that he's still very frustrated with Vladimir Putin -- Wolf.

BLITZER: He certainly is.

Christiane Amanpour, as we know, the president of France, President Hollande, will be in Moscow on Thursday meeting with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. They've got to try to de-escalate what is clearly a dangerous situation right now.

[13:05:13] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the immediate situation. And NATO is meeting in Brussels in the -- in the current moment right now, in a couple of hours. And, obviously, they want to make sure that there is no escalation and that Russian doesn't retaliate.

So, we wonder whether the statements from both presidents were significantly in Turkey NATO members' favor in order to deter Russian retaliation. So, that's one issue.

The other issue is, as Jim said, that obviously President Hollande talked about what needs to be done in Syria and didn't say that he would not put any boots on the ground. But he said that there needs to be a closure of the Syria-Turkey border. And that coupled with President Obama's comments about how Russia is acting too close to the Turkey border. There's no known ISIS in -- certainly in the area that that Russian plane was today. And implying that Russia is going after the wrong targets to bolster Assad.

There is a sense that perhaps Hollande was talking about a no-fly zone and other former NATO officials have started to say this, that along the Syria-Turkey border, if there was a no-fly zone, it would stop this business of any incursions into Turkish airspace or any dangerous incursions. Plus, it would protect civilians and also allow these boots on the ground that they want, the local boots on the ground to be able to train and stay.

So, I think that's interesting to see how that pans out. Both leaders were very clear to say that they should not be confusing refugees and immigrants with terrorists. They laid that out categorically, despite the fact that a few of these slaughterists in Paris had infiltrated illegally some of those refugees coming in.

So, it was really interesting. And, of course, Hollande said that they recently passed a U.N. Security Council resolution, unanimously passed which means including Russia and China gives the ability to the coalition to act.

But what is the coalition? Because right now, there are definitely two coalitions, Russia on one side and the U.S.-led coalition on the other side. And that's going to be the challenge, to make one coalition or one coordinated intervention in trying to defeat ISIS.

BLITZER: Standby, Christiane. John king, at the same time as all of this is happening along the Turkish-Syrian border, and it's very serious, obviously, at the same time as this investigation continues, the manhunt continues in France and Belgium.

President Obama also spoke to the American people about the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday, fears of ISIS terrorist plots here in the United States. He's obviously walking a delicate tight rope right now. On the one hand, he wants everyone to be prepared. On the other hand, he doesn't want people to overreact and get overly nervous about the situation.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And Wolf, frankly, he does not want them to listen to a lot of the criticism that's playing out as we have to acknowledge that we are in the, you know -- I was going to say early stages. We're in the middle stages of a presidential campaign in this country right now.

The president saying, at one point, we must not -- we must uphold our ideals now. We must uphold our ideals now, essentially saying, don't get prejudiced against the Syrian refugees. Don't get prejudiced against Muslims. Don't listen to all this political rhetoric you're hearing about monitoring mosques or shutting down the refugee program. The president trying to get Americans to rally to the security questions before us but not, as he would -- as he made the case, give into the terrorists by accepting fear, accepting discrimination and accepting prejudice.

So, as the two leaders were trying to make this case, Wolf, and what you heard there, such a sober assessment from both of them. We've been talking to Putin about this for years. We've been trying to get the Turks to do things for months if not longer. You heard how complicated it was. You heard how difficult it was. That's from a policy perspective.

And the president was pretty candid. He knows as he faces pressure here at home and as he tries to step up, as he said, and do more in cooperation with the French and others, he's doing so in a very difficult and, sometimes, kind of ugly political environment here at home.

BLITZER: It certainly is. It's a very, very tense political environment here in the United States.

Jim Sciutto, the suspicion is that Turks shot down this Russian S.U. --- this warplane, this Russian plane, in part because they suspected the Russians were targeting their allies, Turk allies, Turkman inside Syria opposed to Bashar Al Assad's regime, which the Russians, of course, support. And that's why they didn't want those Russians planes to go ahead and hit those Turkmen sites inside Syria. What's your analysis of that?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This is a reminder that you have about 27 different participants in France in this war on the ground in Syria right now, including the international component. I mean, you start with Russia with its own objectives. You have the west, the U.S.-led coalition with its own objectives focused on the ISIS, Russian focused on Assad. Then, you have Turkey who's been accused even by its own allies of being less than aggressive enough, in terms of stopping the flow from foreign fighters across the border there.

[13:10:06] Christiane mentions the idea of a no-fly zone but there's also this problem of that border being so porous. And you have accusations, frankly, against Turkey from all sides. You heard this from Vladimir Putin today calling Turkey, in effect in his words, accomplices with terrorists. That gives you a sense of just how many sides here to this conflict. And that's one thing that the U.S. has been worried about with Russia getting in there, not just de- confliction in the air, but also the number of forces on the ground facing up against each other. That's complicated.

You hear from the president though, it's interesting, you have Russia get a plane shot down, possibly lose one of its pilots, but the president, in effect, coming to the defense of his NATO allies, saying that Turkey has a right to defend its airspace. And then, immediately pivoting to say that this is part of an ongoing problem with Russia's military involvement in Syria. The message pretty clear there that, hey, Russia, you're playing in this very crowded playing field. It's dangerous in there which is a fairly tough message.

And I will say this, he says that Turkey has a right to defend its airspace. Russian warplanes have been buzzing, not just Turkish airspace as we know, but European airspace, even U.S. airspace. In effect, it's not a threat but it is a reminder that the U.S. takes that airspace very seriously as does NATO. And that just reminds you that, heck, you know, yes, you have de-confliction between U.S. and Russian warplanes in there, but they're flying very close. That risk is something that the defense officials say, to me, is real. And they want to avoid having a deadly conflict in the air, certainly between the U.S. and Russia.

BLITZER: Yes, whenever you have U.S.-made F-16 warplanes flown by Turkish fighter pilots, S.U.-24 warplanes flown by Russian pilots in a very, very sensitive area along that border -- and we should note, soon enough, whether the Turkish allegation that these Russian planes were in the Turkish airspace or the Russian allegation they were strictly in Syrian airspace, we'll know that soon enough which -- where that -- those planes were. Obviously, this is a, clearly, dangerous situation.

Guys, stand by. We have much more coming up, including more on the fallout of the downing of that Russian fighter jet, what happened to the pilots who were seen parachuting from the burning plane. We'll have live reports from Russia and from Turkey. Much more of our special coverage right after this.

[13:12:28]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:32] BLITZER: Let's get to more now on the breaking news out of Turkey, where a Russian fighter jet was shot down along the border with Syria. And there's dramatic video of the incident allegedly showing the two Russian pilots being shot at in the sky after ejecting from the plane. Watch this.

(VIDEO TAPE)

BLITZER: Apparently, Syrian rebels, opposed to the regime of Bashar al Assad, can be heard there shouting, don't shoot at them, let's capture them alive. The fate, however, of the two pilots unknown. Turkey says the jet was shot down after it repeatedly invaded Turkish air space along the border with Syria, ignoring several warnings. Russia, however, says its military jet was flying strictly over Syria, not Turkey. We have full coverage of this important development. Nick Paton Walsh is joining us from Istanbul in Turkey. Matthew Chance is in Moscow. Our military analyst, retired General Mark Hertling, is joining us as well.

Nick, the Turkish government, they're not backing off at all. They're saying they were clearly provoked. They had every right to shoot down this SU-24.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Their line very straight forward, that under their rules of engagement, they saw a Russian aircraft enter their air space. They released a map showing the area or the air space, which was said to be flown through. They said in a five minute period they gave 10 separate warnings. And then one of their F-16 shot down that aircraft.

Now, you mentioned that video there which shows two of the pilots ejecting and the scenes on the ground as well seemed to be Turkmen, Syrian rebels there, explaining why they're talking Turkish, firing up at it and saying, yes, let's take one of them live, maybe for a prisoner exchange. We do now know, though, on Russian state news agency Rianovisty (ph), military sources saying that one of those pilots was, in fact, killed from fire, from the ground as well. So a potential first admission of a death here. That will escalate the tension over this.

But Turkey's prime minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, very clear that Turkey will take, quote, all kinds of measures to defend its borders. This is not the first time this has happened. Back in late September, when Russian air strikes first began, there were a number of supposed violations that Turkey registered. It began talking with the Russian officials here and in Ankara as well to try and get a system together to smooth that out. But, it happened again. And, obviously, in this case, that Turkey says happened again here. Although I should just say actually (INAUDIBLE) again are now quoting a source from the general staff of Russia's military command saying that in fact according to Syrian air traffic control telling them and their radar it was a Turkish aircraft that violated Syrian air space. So we'll see this back and forth now in the days ahead certainly, but no doubt it seems now from Russia that in that video you saw one of those pilots lost their lives before they hit the ground.

Wolf.

BLITZER: And you heard President Obama just say you've got to de- escalate this very tense situation that has now developed.

Matthew, you're in Moscow. Putin has been calling the downing of this Russian warplane by the Turks a stab in the back. The Russian foreign minister has cancelled a trip to Turkey. He was supposed to be there tomorrow. So what else are we -- what other reaction are you picking up there in Moscow?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Russians are absolutely beside themselves with fury that this has taken place. You remember, they potentially lost two pilots. They've lost a plane. It's the first casualties effectively of their campaign inside Syria. And so it's a huge blow.

[13:20:09] And the fact that this plane was shot out of the sky by a Turkish F-16 has come as a real insult, I think, to the Russians. Again, Vladimir Putin saying it was a stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorist, accusing effectively the Turks of being behind the rebel groups and behind ISIS on the ground, which is what, you know, you know, has been an accusation that's been leveled against Turkey in the past.

They've also rejected out of hand this allegation, this claim, this account by the Turks that this Russian plane violated Turkish air space. They are saying that all of the time it was flying its mission, it did so inside Syrian air space. It says it's got data to demonstrate that, although it hasn't made that data public, unlike the Turks who have released those -- those radar maps of the routes they say the plane took.

But nevertheless, the Russians and Vladimir Putin articulating this, saying that this incident is going to have a serious impact on the relations between Russia and Turkey. Already the diplomatic issue has come up. The foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, abandoning his trip to -- to Turkey tomorrow, which was pre-planned.

Also, interesting thing, is like the economic pressure Russia is starting to bring to bear. The foreign minister saying that Russian citizens should no longer travel to Turkey on holiday and the Russian Association of Tour Operators backing that up saying, look, we're not going to recommend package tours to Turkey anymore. It's significant -- a significant flow of Russian tourists to Turkey. But you know, you get the sense that the Russians are really trying to work out what their response could be.

BLITZER: General Hertling, if, in fact, these Turkmen rebels allied with Turkey inside Syria were shooting at these two pilots as they ejected from their SU-24 warplane, there's been already some suggestion that's a -- that's a criminal act if not a war -- a crime against -- a war crime, if you will, if you're shooting at parachuting pilots. You've served in Europe. You've commanded these kinds of positions. This is clearly a tense situation. Is that, in fact, a war crime to shoot at pilots who have ejected?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It is indeed, Wolf. It's a violation of the law of land combat. Whenever you're shooting at someone who's parachuting or is unarmed at the time of an attack like this. And again, this is one of those kinds of things that I think will infuriate the Russian president perhaps as much, or maybe even more, than the shooting down of the aircraft is this shooting by the Turkmen, if that's, in fact, who is conducting that attack, against the pilots who were parachuting from the aircraft. And all of the things that have said, you know, this is coming during a time when there appeared to be a glimmer of increased cooperation by Russia with the other coalition forces. This is just not coming at a very good time.

But again, as the president said, we have to look at all the details. I'm sure -- or almost certain that there was probably an AWAX (ph) plane overhead, because that has been attempting to contribute to the de-confliction between the coalition aircraft and the Russian and Syrian aircraft that have been flying in support of Mr. Assad. And again, remember, that's what Russia wanted. They did not want cooperation in the air space, they wanted de-confliction. And there have been multiple occurrences, as Jim Sciutto mentioned earlier, of Russia flying into Turkish air space, even at a point where they had a Mig-29 recently harassing some Turkish F-16s and then going back into Syria.

So multiple events like this. I think the Turks had made multiple warnings of Russia to stay out of their air space. So this is an indicator of what happens when Russia is somewhat tweaking their nose at the NATO alliance.

BLITZER: And if there was a NATO or U.S. AWAX aerial surveillance plane flying, the U.S. and the NATO allies will all know specifically whether or not that Russian warplane was flying in Turkish air space or Syrian air space. The Turkmen, they make the point that these Russian airplanes were coming in to kill them, to bomb those sites and they had every right to go ahead and therefore kill these Russian pilots, even if they were parachuting. That's their argument.

All right, guys, standby. We're standing on top of the breaking news. Much more coming up. Does President Obama's strategy to fight ISIS go far enough right now? We'll ask a key member of the House Homeland Security Committee, Congressman John Katko. He's standing by live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:46] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've seen some success, but the question now is, how can we accelerate it. And, in fact, even before the tragedy in Paris, I had gathered together my national security forces, it had been a year, to review where we had made progress, what worked, what did not, and had put together a plan to accelerate and advance the pressure that we can place on ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Obama, just moments ago, speaking on the fight against ISIS during that joint news conference at the White House with the visiting French president, Francois Hollande. Let's bring in Republican Congressman John Katko of New York. He serves on the House Homeland Security Committee. He was chairman of the Foreign Fighters Task Force as well.

Were you satisfied with what you heard from the president in that little clip right there, congressman?

REP. JOHN KATKO (R), NEW YORK: Well, I mean, he's trying to be as diplomatic as he possibly can, but, you know, we definitely need a beefed up strategy in the Middle East and a more cohesive international strategy to combat some of the problem that have been arising.

[13:29:51] BLITZER: The clash today between Russia and Turkey, Turkish F-16s shooting down a Russian SU-24, and the Turks saying it was in Turkish airspace, the Russians saying it was in Syrian airspace. You've got two leaders in Turkey and in Russia, Putin in Russia, Erdogan in Turkey, these are tough guys. Neither one likes to blink, if you will. This crisis could clearly escalate.