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Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane; Intelligence Bulletin Warns Police to Review Active Shooting Drilling; Rep. Gregory Meeks Talks ISIS Threats to NYC; Investigation on Whether Central Command Doctored Intelligence on War on ISIS. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 24, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And the Turkish F-16s shooting down a Russian SU-24, and Turks saying it was in Turkish air space and the Russians saying it was in Syrian air space. And so you have two leaders in Turkey and in Russia, Putin, in Russia and Erdogan, in Turkey, and these are touch guys. Neither one likes to blink, if you will. This crisis could clearly escalate.

REP. JOHN KATKO, (R), NEW YORK: It really could. It made a volatile situation in Syria and Iraq that much more volatile. And if you think about it, there's a three-sided war going on in Syria, and the rebels going against Assad, and ISIS against Assad, and Assad fighting back against both of them. And Russia coming in to ostensibly fight against ISIS, and now going after the rebels. And now Turkey and Russia going at it. It is really making an extremely tough situation to try to figure out what is going on. To me, it is crying out for more international leadership and international stability into what is going on over there.

BLITZER: And it all comes back -- and you are on the House Homeland Security Committee to the fears here in the United States right now. A new U.S. intelligence bulletin, reported on CNN, is warning the local law enforcement to review the training to deal with active shooters. What can you tell us about this? Are we going to see more drills like we saw in New York City Sunday?

KATKO: Oh, yes, we will have more active shooter situations all over the country. On the Transportation Subcommittee, we passed a law that mandated the active shooting situations in airports, because it is a vulnerable hot spot, and airports nationwide pursuant to the law that was signed into law by the president to have more of that readiness for those situations as they arise.

BLITZER: And the State Department has issued a worldwide travel alert for the next three months for all U.S. citizens around the world for what is seen as an increased terror threat. You have been reviewing this, I'm sure, and how worried are you for foreign travel for Americans specifically right now?

KATKO: Well, I have been worried about foreign travel for Americans since I got on Homeland Security, and that is part of the job to worry about it. It is amazing how many people are working behind the scenes to keep people safe. The biggest concern is that, I have had concerns with the American foreign travel, but when we travel overseas that is the concern. And that is borne out by what happened in Sharm el Sheikh and the deployment of bombs in airports is a real concern. And we have a heightened state of alert right now, no question about it. When ISIS upped the game and started taking down airliners, it is a different ball game now, and we have to respond to that by being more vigilant in what we are doing.

BLITZER: Congressman Katko, thank you for joining us.

KATKO: Thank you, and happy Thanksgiving.

BLITZER: Happy Thanksgiving to you, as well.

As ISIS steps up its threats against the West there are now new concerns about security, especially as the U.S. heads into the holiday Thanksgiving weekend, we will talk to one of the lawmakers in a city ISIS has threatened to attack. There he is, Congressman Gregory Meeks, from New York City. That is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:37:24] BLITZER: We are looking at the video just coming in. Only moments ago, the U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter welcoming his French counterpart, the French defense minister, for an honor accord at the ceremony at the Pentagon. And topping the agenda is the huge development today, Turkey, a NATO ally, shooting down a Russian warplane near the Turkish and Syrian border. They will discuss the joint efforts to fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria as well as the fallout from the attacks in Paris.

In light of those attacks in Paris and a series of ISIS videos threatening the United States, security is clearly being ramped up here ahead of the Thanksgiving weekend.

Joining me is Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks, of New York, who is representing part of the city directly cited in some of the ISIS videos. He's a senior member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Thank you, Congressman, for joining us.

What is going on in New York City, first of all, because the Paris attacks certainly have focused in on the threat to soft targets in your beautiful city as well?

REP. GREGORY MEEKS, (D), NEW YORK: Well, Wolf, what is going on is what we do every time this time of the year. We have the great New York City Police Department working with Homeland Security and other intelligence agencies to make sure that all New Yorkers and the visitors to New York are safe in this festive holiday of Thanksgiving, and the Thanksgiving Day Parade. I see people though that they are living their lives and people are walking the streets and doing shopping, and all are looking forward to the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. So, yes, security is up, and you know one thing that police Commissioner Bratton keeps talking about, "If you see something, say something." That is in place. But we feel confident all will be safe and we will have a great Thanksgiving here in New York City. BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about the foreign affairs right now,

one of the areas of expertise. In the news conference with the French President Hollande, President Obama said the U.S. now will share more security information with France to stop efforts to stop the flow of foreign fighters. Here is the question, is Turkey, based on everything that you know, doing enough to protect its border with Syria, and prevent ISIS terrorists from coming from Syria back into Turkey, a NATO ally from which they can go into the Europe and maybe even come to the United States?

MEEKS: Clearly, Wolf, we know that more can be done, that the borders between Turkey and Syria have been sparse. That is where some of the fighters have been going across the -- you know, are from the crossing one border to another. So there is much more that can be done. And Turkey, who has been helpful, and continuing to be helpful as part of the NATO ally, but we have to beef it up, and make sure that wherever is there is a weak link, it is strengthened. That is what the president is talking about along with President Hollande, and we have to make sure that happens, working in a collective way, working in a multilateral way.

[13:40:19] BLITZER: And when you heard that the Turks shot down a Russian airplane along the Turkish/Syrian border, what was your reaction?

MEEKS: That there needs to be more communication, and that the Russians need to come on board with the other 65 nations that are part of our coalition. Because if we were all focused on Daesh, this would not happen. We would be sharing the common information necessary, and all be focused on the common enemy. Russia should understand now, because their jet was shot down by ISIL, their plane by ISIL, through a bomb, through terrorist attacks, and that we have to be on the same side and coordinate together. And so I have been told by some of my administrative sources that the Russian plane was in fact over in Turkey territory. So, that has got to be -- and I'm hopeful that the dialogue and the conversation will make Mr. Putin understand that he should come to be part of the coalition of 65, as opposed to the coalition of two as the president talked about.

BLITZER: Congressman Meeks, thank you for joining us. I hope it is a happy and wonderful Thanksgiving holiday for you and your family as well.

MEEKS: Thank you, Wolf, same to you.

BLITZER: Coming up, more on the breaking news, Turkey shooting down of a Russian fighter plane near the Syrian border, saying the plane violated its air space. We'll ask our intelligence panel if this is going to exacerbate tensions with Russia. The security crisis in and around Syria clearly, clearly, a very disturbing development. Much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:46:19] BLITZER: There is a new development in the Paris terror attacks investigation. A judge in Belgium has just issued an international arrest warrant for this man, Mohammad Abrani (ph). Investigators say he drove a car that was found abandoned in a neighborhood where one of the attacks took place. They believe he dropped off one of the stadium attackers. We will get more information and update you as it comes in.

Meanwhile, President Obama met with the French President Francois Hollande at the White House today and the fight against ISIS certainly topped the agenda. President Obama said he is ready to step up the U.S.-led air campaign against the ISIS terror group, but neither he nor President Hollande is prepared to put U.S. troops on the ground in any significant numbers.

There was also an emergency NATO meeting today in Brussels to discuss the downing of a Russian fighter jet by Turkey.

We will talk about all of the breaking developments here with our panel. Aki Peritz is a former CIA terrorism analyst; our CNN global affairs analyst, Kimberly Dozier, here; with Jim Sciutto, our national security correspondent.

This downing of the Russian plane could potentially be a game-changer, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No question. They have been warning about a possible U.S./Russia conflict in the skies, and that is why you have these de-conflictions meetings, et cetera. But here you have a NATO ally, Turkey, with a deadly military conflict in the sky with Russia. It's another reminder of how messy not just the air space but the ground is in Syria. You have so many players and the sensitivity of this -- it will be very interesting to see how they avoid escalation in the wake.

BLITZER: And the thought right now, Kimberly, and you are doing the reporting here, is that the Turks were sensitive that the Russian SU- 24 would try to the bomb their allies inside of Syria, these Turkmen rebels, as opposed to al Bashar's regime.

KIM DOZIER, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Turkmen on the ground, and it is not the first time the Russians have buzzed this area. The Pentagon has gone on record to say there are no ISIS targets here, and nothing that Russia should have been hitting. This is a waste of their time and manpower at a time when the Pentagon is also tracking Russia being over extended in the military campaign in Syria. They have opened up more than 60 fronts up mostly up against the moderate Syrian rebels. A couple of areas they are targeting ISIS, but the Pentagon doesn't know how Russia can sustain this campaign. So the question is, how do you help with the fight against ISIS when you can barely keep going with what you are doing.

BLITZER: You heard President Obama at that news conference, Aki, repeatedly said that, right now, you need to de-escalate this confrontation between Turkey, the NATO ally, and Russia, but you have two leaders, Erdogan and Putin, and these are tough guys who don't easily blink.

AKI PERITZ, FORMER CIA TERRORISM ANALYST: They don't blink at all, and they are individuals who do not back down from any conflict. So this is the scenario that we are all very, very concerned about.

Remember that the plane went down near Latakia Province, which is on the coast of Syria, nowhere near ISIS-held territory, so therefore the fact the Russians are attacking in places where there are no ISIS that obviously did a lot of damage in Egypt, Turkey, Paris, elsewhere. So it is cause for real concern.

BLITZER: The U.S. will know, presumably they already know, whether or not this Russian, Kimberly, was in Turkish air space or Syrian air space. They probably know already by now, although the president said in the news conference, we will know soon enough.

DOZIER: They were being coy about it in the briefings this morning, saying it looks like it was right on the border and we are assessing, but they confirmed that they heard the audio of the Turks warn the Russian jet 10 times to get out of our air space, and the Russian jet not responding before the Turkish planes opened fire.

BLITZER: What does it say that Turkey -- even if it were in Turkish air space, what does it say that the Turkish government decided to tell that F-16 fighter launch an air-to-air missile and knock down that Russian SU-24?

[13:50:21] SCIUTTO: It says they are willing to take enormous risks and face at least a danger of serious consequences to send a strong message about defending their air space. In this war, you hear so many strong statements, especially in the wake of the Paris attacks, we're at war and so on. Meanwhile, from President Hollande and Obama, you see them essentially sticking with the same tactics, increasing air strikes, cooperation, et cetera. This is a reminder you are at war, and that the players are not just players on the ground but the players in the air. But the dangers of escalation are real.

BLITZER: Quickly on these reports that the inspector general of the Department of Defense is investigating whether the U.S. military Central Command was doctoring intelligence to make it look more rosy in this war against ISIS. When you hear that, what do you think?

PERITZ: I think it's 2002/2003 all over again. If we find out that senior military officials are doctoring or altering the analysis that are put out by CENTCOM analysts, that is a terrifying -- something that is incredibly terribly about how --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: When you were at the CIA writing intelligence analysis, were you pressured to write something on paper that you wouldn't believe in yourself but only because political higher ups were telling you to do this?

PERITZ: Absolutely not. That was never done. We were well insulated in the Counterterrorism Center from this kind of political chicanery. And to hear that CENTCOM analysts might have been pressured or things have been changed is a terrifying thing for analysis.

BLITZER: It is a serious investigation, Kimberly, based on everything you're hearing.

DOZIER: It is. It's been going on for several months now. It will probably be months more before we see the results. But remember, this is not always doctoring for political purposes as much as doctoring possibly because the people in charge of this campaign want to say that their campaign is working. They are invested in the outcome of their own analysis.

BLITZER: Guys, standby for a moment.

Before we go, a very important programming note. Jim Sciutto has a very special documentary on CNN later tonight. It's called "Targeting Terror: Inside the Intelligence War." Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): We came here, a place you probably never heard of, a place you have certainly never seen, until now.

(on camera): We're approaching the mission ground station in White Sands, New Mexico. The very existence of this ground station and others in the U.S. was classified until 2008, and we're the first reporters allowed inside.

(voice-over): Inside this ground station, the place the NRO calls its brain, from this room, the NRO watches over the agency satellites, checking their systems, receiving their data, and troubleshooting any problems.

(on camera): What goes wrong, you loose touch with them or --

LT. COL. JEFF CRINDER (ph), NRO: It's a piece of hardware with electronics on it and, just like anything could go wrong with your cell phone or television, that can go wrong.

SCIUTTO: Each satellite on Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Crinder's (ph) radar has an important job to do.

CRINDER (ph): Every day we have a plan of what those satellites are going to collect. If we get a call in real time where a crisis is happening, we have the capability to retest those satellites.

SCIUTTO (on camera): How often has that happen? Is that a regular thing where you get a call to say I known you've been looking over here but look here?

CRINDER (ph): I'd say as often as CNN gets a breaking news story.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: That's pretty often.

I know you've worked really hard for a long time on this documentary that will air later tonight. And you're going to take our viewers to places they have never seen or been to before. SCIUTTO: I think knowing the extent of the intelligence community --

there's 16 intelligence agencies. People know about the CIA and the NSA. But they don't know about so many of these others, the NRO that launches and operates the spy satellites, the NGA that looks at the data that comes from the satellites. The Defense Intelligence Agency has their own intelligence agency. But they are working together with enormous capabilities to keep the country safe.

The trouble is you can have all that capability in the world, but your adversaries, whether big or small, are always looking for holes. Being out in Paris this last week that came up all the time is terrorists going dark. Something so simple you can put on your phone, an encryption application that basically means the NSA can't listen to your conversations. And that's difficult when they are trying to track terrorists.

BLITZER: All indications that the terrorists were involved in that Friday night plot in Paris, they did use that encrypted communication.

SCIUTTO: They had encryption apps on the phones found at the scenes of the attacks. Then you have bigger-picture issues. We talk a lot about terrorism. You and I have talked about cyber attacks and so on. But when we go inside the cyber world, and we went into the NSA Cyber Command Center, the level of capability from cyber actors, and this goes from small groups to countries, like China, Russia, Iran, to shut down key systems in the U.S., it's truly worrisome. That's one thing that keeps them up at night.

[13:55:24] BLITZER: It's a timely documentary. I know you worked on it a long time. You got permission to go to certain areas that our viewers will be deeply appreciative, based on everything, certainly, this investigation now, whether the U.S. was doctoring intelligence. Very timely. We're looking forward to it later tonight.

SCIUTTO: Thank you very much.

BLITZER: Thanks for doing it.

Be sure to watch CNN's exclusive look inside the war on terror, "Targeting Terror: Inside the Intelligence War." It airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern here on CNN.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

For our international visitors, "Amanpour" is coming up next.

For our viewers in North America, NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin in Paris starts after a quick break.

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