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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

NYC Ramps Up Counterterror Effort For Macy's Parade; New Program Allows Texts To Homeland Security; Holiday Travel Security Beefed Up; Belgium Drops Terror Threat Level; Hollande Seeks Putin's Help Against ISIS; Putin Waiting For Turkish Apology. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired November 26, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Happy Thanksgiving to you and welcome to "Legal View." And I want to begin with the unprecedented show of force right here in New York City, this city deploying the most officers ever for the Thanksgiving Day holiday parade. This was the scene at the Macy's parade, just wrapping up a few moments ago, 3.5 million spectators all gathering along that parade route, peering up at the big balloons.

But take a look at what was peering back down at those people. Police sharpshooters on roof tops. I actually took these pictures myself earlier, before getting on the set. There were sharpshooters on buildings all along this parade route. There were also helicopters circling that entire parade route, there were bomb-sniffing dogs, officers who were on horseback keeping tabs on that crowd. Police also relying on mobile cameras and radiation detectors, hoping to seek out any possible dirty bombs. All of this, all of it, part of the amped-up security across the United States following the terror attacks in Paris.

Our team has been on the ground, in the air, and across the country, covering it all. CNN's Miguel Marquez got the assignment on the parade route. He's watching the police presence in New York. Meanwhile Rene Marsh is monitoring Homeland Security efforts from D.C. and developments overseas as well. And also with us, CNN law enforcement analyst Jonathan Gilliam. Miguel, if I could start with you, it looks nice and empty behind you now. Moments ago there were thousands upon thousands lining those streets beside you. What were some of the things we did not see that the police were active doing?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they aren't talking a lot that we're not seeing out there, but certainly they had a giant presence here, both seen and unseen. The uniformed officers here along the parade route was big, it always is. They also had a lot of officers in civilian clothes, those undercover officers who were at different parts, not only within the parade, but blocks away from it, basically protecting the perimeter of the parade itself. Three and a half million people, as you said, along the parade route, and in areas away from it you had bomb-sniffer dogs looking for anything that might be suspicious, even those radiation detectors that they had at the ready in case of any sort of dirty bomb. But for three and a half million people that lined the routes here,

and to have this parade go through, and I mean forget ISIS and forget everything else, there, there weren't any big issues. There weren't even any small issues. No arrests. There were concerns last year about Black Lives Matter trying to break into the parade. The Black Lives Matter protest went to Macy's last night late and were able to sort of disrupt operations there at Macy's. There may have been some concern of that here. None of that, none of that happened today. A spectacular day here in New York, and the police did their job. At some points during the parade, the biggest applause came for the police as they were just walking down the parade route, protecting it. Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, that's, that's quite a headline, considering we're also covering, you know, a story in Chicago involving police and allegations of now murder with regard to how the police handled a situation there. There's been marching in the street, so that's quite a story if you're telling me there was a cheering presence there from the crowd. Miguel, just one more thing that the police have actually tried to engage average citizens with in this vigilance against terror, and it's as simple as an app, an app on your phone. You know, fight fire with fire. If they're going to use social media against us, we can use social media against them. Explain what they're telling crowds.

MARQUEZ: Yeh, a lot of, a lot of states, several states still have this, now New York has launched its. The Governor of New York launching his if you see something say something app basically. So when, when you have mass numbers of people reporting things to police agencies, it's very difficult for them to (feeze) through that and respond in kind to that, to that particular location. So now individuals can take a picture, make a note, send it in to the state police intelligence center. They can then assess the relevance of it and what agency it needs to go to, if it needs to go anywhere else. Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: We're just seeing some of the evidence of that imagery beside you as you were reporting, and it's just a giant what looks like chemicals and explosives in a truck. For days on end people walking right by without mentioning anything. So, Miguel Marquez, stand by, if you would, please. I want to go to Rene Marsh, she's standing by live in Washington, D.C. I want to turn the tables a little bit because leading up to today and I'm so glad we're having this conversation today, Rene, instead of breaking news about what might have happened at the parade. Still the vigilance has to be as strong as ever as we learn these stories out of, of France, particularly that more than a hundred public transit workers from the bus service had actually left for Syria since 2012. Transit workers, people who are handed the care of average citizens every day.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And you know, with that as a full picture, we saw just yesterday the President coming out to reassure Americans. We also saw Homeland Security Secretary Jay Johnson actually hop on an Amtrak train from D.C. to New Jersey, both of the clearly trying to send a message to Americans that it's OK to take mass transit, and get on with your life.

But despite that message, what travelers are seeing is law enforcement out in full force. At trains, bus stations, airports. We're seeing heavy weaponry, bomb-sniffing dogs. We know that the TSA has been conducting these random checks for explosives at airports. And we also know on the law enforcement side, the FBI says it is paying very close attention to dozens of people who they think pose the highest threat of attempting to carry on -- out some sort of copycat attack in the United States. So, although we're hearing this message of, you know, live your life and clearly from the more than three million people who showed up, they, they followed those instructions, we are still seeing a reaction which is an increased police presence. A lot of work being down behind the scenes to make sure that that threat does not impact those here in the homeland. Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And, Rene, stand by if you will. I want to add Jonathan Gilliam to the conversation. And, Jonathan, look, I think we all sort of were on edge...

JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Mm-hmm.

BANFIELD: ...from nine until noon, and before that, as these crowds amassed. That kind of a presence it doesn't shock anybody anymore as they bring their children to the Thanksgiving Day parade route.

GILLIAM: Right.

BANFIELD: I am thrilled nothing happened. But at the same time, you get all the bravado from ISIS, you get videos showing a suicide bomber closing his bomb up with a nice puffy jacket.

GILLIAM: Right.

BANFIELD: It didn't happen. Will the guard be let down across America because it's looked at as bravado? Is that even more dangerous?

GILLIAM: Well, excellent question.

BANFIELD: False bravado, I should say.

GILLIAM: Right. And we have to be very careful because right now -- see, this parade route was actually somewhat of a hardened target. They went out, they secured it, they had areas where you, you, you know, you couldn't have a backpack in a lot of these areas. And where the crowds were big, the police presence was, presence was huge. But now what you see is this, these same groups of people have gone to places where it's not hardened. A cafe, maybe they're going to another celebration. You may have a thousand people in the same area right now as we speak. Times Square as we speak right now is the biggest soft target in the United States. Right this second.

BANFIELD: We've got the Christmas tree lighting coming up at Rockefeller Center.

GILLIAM: Right. BANFIELD: And we've got New Year's Eve in Times Square. Those are extraordinarily nervous times, I think for New Yorkers, for, for people who are traveling to New York, and I would imagine Homeland Security and NYPD.

GILLIAM: Yes. And right now there's a joint special operations command that is -- or, excuse me, a joint operations command that is set up here in the city that includes everyone that would be involved with this, whether it be from the FBI, even the Secret Service has members on there, the NYPD, Port Authority. So they're ready to respond. The problem though, and God bless those individuals, they give up every holiday normally to stand up that (jock) here in, in the city. But what -- I don't care what technology you put out there, and I've said this a thousand times, these two eyes are what are going to spot the abnormal behavior and the people who are doing something. We literally have millions of eyes in the city right now who can be deterrents or can effectively look around and say that is not normal. And that is how we're going to stop this.

BANFIELD: All right. Jonathan Gilliam, thank you for that. I appreciate it. And Miguel Marquez, thank you as well. And Rene Marsh for her reporting in Washington, D.C. Thank you, and Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.

I have this is in from Belgium as well. That has been a really frightening place to be. And just today, just actually within the hour, Belgium dropped its terror level one level down. This is after a week of fears that possible Paris-styled attacks might be imminent in the capitol city of Brussels. That news comes on the heels of a decision yesterday to finally reopen those schools and much of the metro system there, although both of those systems remain under heavy guard. But that de facto lock down is lifting in Brussels. Coming up next, the terror attacks in Paris, the downing of a Russian passenger plane, then the downing of a war plane. So much at stake for the Presidents of France and Russia right now at the face to face meeting this hour. Can they find common ground in the fight against ISIS?

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BANFIELD: He has rallied his allies. Britain on Monday, the United States on Tuesday, Germany yesterday, and now the President of France, Francois Hollande, is capping his whirlwind week of diplomacy with meetings in Moscow, and unifying East and West against ISIS. And if they're sticking to their schedule, Hollande and Russian President Vladimir Putin are now working in a working dinner after closed-door consultations and before a joint news conference that is scheduled to start sometime later this hour, which we are monitoring very closely. CNN's Matthew Chance is hard at work. He is in the Russian capitol. He joins me now live. In the easiest of terms, in a very complicated story with a very complicated meeting, what does President Hollande what to get out of Vladimir Putin today?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, President Hollande has been touring the world, coming to Washington, visiting Angela Merkel, visiting the British Prime Minister as well, although that was in Paris. Trying to build an international coalition to combat ISIS. I mean France has obviously been affected terribly by the attacks in Paris. The Russians have also had some blows dealt to them as well with the downing of that Russian airliner in the Sinai Peninsula with 224 people on board. And so they've got this shared interest in defeating the terrorism of ISIS, and that's why they've come together today. And in fact, within the past few minutes, there's been a brief photo opportunity of the two leaders sitting down inside the Kremlin with the press pool before they go into that working dinner.

And they both sort of sympathize with each other because of the various atrocities committed in both countries by ISIS terrorists. And Vladimir Putin offered a ray of hope, saying essentially, look, we are going to work together to defeat a common evil. And that's exactly the kind of language that the French President wants to hear as he tries to build this grand coalition of all these different countries, to try and finally defeat ISIS. The problem is of course that Syr -- that in Syria, where ISIS is primarily based, Russia has a very different perspective on how that conflict should end than, you know, the West does and France does. You know, so it is a very complicated situation.

BANFIELD: Matthew Chance, stand by, if you will. Keep a live eye on that as well for us. And at an earlier event, I should mention, at the Kremlin today, Vladimir Putin complained that Turkey has not apologized nor offered any compensation for that Russian war plane that it shot down on Tuesday with pilots inside. Today, in an exclusive interview with CNN, the Turkish President made it clear, don't be expecting any forthcoming apology.

PRESIDENT RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKEY (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Well, I think if there's a party that needs to apologize, it's not us. Those who violated our air space are the ones who need to apologize. Our pilots and our armed forces they simply fulfilled their duties, which consisted of responding to a violation of the rules of engagement. I think this is the essence.

BANFIELD: Russia still insists that its planes were never in Turkish air space and never got any warnings from those Turks. Turkey says the world can hear the proof for itself, releasing these recordings.

TURKISH MILITARY: Unknown air traffic position to Humanynim. 040 This is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately. Change your heading south.

BANFIELD: So the leader of Turkey says that the leader of Russia is making a quote huge mistake accusing Turkey of being an accomplice -- his words -- accomplice to ISIS. Turkey says Russia helps ISIS by targeting so-called moderate opposition members to the Syrian regime. So it's getting pretty ugly out there. And in London today the British Prime Minister, David Cameron, tried once again to persuade his own Parliament to authorize Syrian air strikes.

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We shouldn't be content with outsourcing our security to our allies. If we believe that actions can help protect us, then with our allies we should be part of that action, not standing aside from it. And from this moral point comes a fundamental question. If we won't act now, when our friend and ally France has been struck in this way, then our allies in the world can be forgiven for asking if not now, when?

BANFIELD: Britain has been hitting ISIS in Iraq for more than a year now, but the law makers specifically refuse to OK any other attacks on the Syrian side of that border. Now Mr. Cameron says he's not going to call another vote unless he is sure that he's going to prevail, and we expect that that vote's going to happen. It's going to take place sometime next week.

I'm going to talk about all of this with my global security brain trust. Mark Hertling is a CNN military analyst and former Commanding General of the U.S. Army Europe. Bob Baer is a CNN intelligence and security analyst and former CIA operative. And Rick Francona is CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel. So we've got some, some big minds to put to work right now. General Hertling, I want to begin with you. That's quite a list that you have to tick off right now if you're talking about the crisis in diplomacy right now. You got no apology going towards the Russians from Turkey. You got a financial squeeze now being threatened from the Russians to Turkey, and Turkey needs Russia financially. And then you've got these accusations from Russia that Turkey is actually aiding and abetting ISIS. All of that is very ugly from the talk level. But does that mean anything when it gets to much more serious action, and that is military action.

GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, you got about an hour, Ashleigh? We'll talk about it. Let's -- first of all what I'd suggest is you're going to continue to hear this bellicose language between Mr. Erdogan and Mr. Putin. Because truthfully they're both similar characters. They are both protecting their people, but under the radar of these top leaders, you're going to see a whole lot of foreign ministers continuing to try and do some coordination about what it is they're after. And truthfully, when you look at each nation, each one of them have national objectives as regards to Syria and as regards to ISIS. And there's not a whole lot of intersection. Most of Mr. Hollande's problems are internal to France. Most of what Mr. Putin is doing is supporting the Assad regime, which is in fact contributing to ISIS' growth. Most of what Turkey is going is sudden -- somewhat of the same thing Mr. Putin is doing by fighting the Kurds while supporting the Turkmen in Northern Syria. So you really have to take a look at a map and figure out who all the players are, and it is unbelievably confusing.

BANFIELD: Yeh.

HERTLING: And it's just, it's interesting to me that now Mr. Hollande is wanting to build a coalition against ISIS. I think that's what's been taking place over the last year or so by the United States and other powers.

BANFIELD: Well, how the tables have turned in 13 years. I mean they were, you know, Hollande was arriving here at the White House, beating the drums of war, when that was exactly the opposite the scenario when it came time to try to build a coalition of the willing for Iraq. Let me ask you this, Bob Baer, there is also this concern that Russia is suggesting it is no longer going to cooperate with the military authorities in Turkey when it comes to intelligence sharing. That's no longer sabre rattling, that, that General Hertling was just talking about. That's intelligence sharing in the place in the world right now where we need it most. Is this a big problem, or can other players fill in that void?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Ashleigh, it's a huge problem because Turkey is key on this because it controls that border with Syria. We have to know who's going into Syria and who's leaving. Hollande in the press conference on Tuesday with Obama said we have to control that border. And he's absolutely right because, if ISIS members can cross it without any checks, get their training and come back and go to Europe and undertake attacks, that's a big problem. And also the Russians have been saying that Turkey has been allowing the smuggling of oil from ISIS-controlled areas, which I believe is true. There's a, there's an oil Mafia in that part of the world. So, unless Turkey controls that border, nothing's going to happen to ISIS. And the Russians, on the other hand, are not exactly innocent in all of this because they are supporting the Bashar al- Assad regime, and they're doing little against the Islamic State. So everybody, as General Hertling said, has different goals in this. Unless we get on the same page, this war will continue and spread.

BANFIELD: So I want to touch that, that word that everybody loves to throw around, even in the campaigns, and that is oil. Colonel Francona, I know you have spent a lot of time in Syria, much of it people didn't know about and probably will never know about, but you have an intimate understanding of the Iraqi oil circumstance as it pertains to the surrounding countries. The Russians are accusing right now the Turks of using ISIS oil, of paying ISIS for their oil supplies. And I believe the Turks are saying the same thing. There's a lot of back and forth about who's supporting ISIS by paying them for all the oil that they're stealing. A, is it true? B, is this a serious crisis? And, C, is there anything anyone can do about this anyway?

COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, let's take the last one first. We are trying to do something about it. You know just over the last couple of weeks you've seen a concentrated effort to go after all of these oil tanker trucks that we see out in the desert, hundreds of them. And they're moving this oil almost freely. And of course they're selling it to the Turks, they're selling it to the Syrians as well. Oil is -- trumps everything else in the region because it generates income. ISIS needs the income. Turkey and Syria need the oil. So it's -- they're willing to overlook the war that's going on to provide this income that they all need and the oil that they all want. So we -- and we've seen this for years. This happened during -- when the sanctions were in pace against Iraqi oil, the Turks were one of the big conduits of illicit oil coming out of there. So we, we see this over and over. So, yes, it is true. And what's going to stop it? Nothing's going to stop until the political situation and the military situation gel together. And, as both the General and Bob pointed out, all of these countries different agendas, nobody's on the same sheet of music. It, it's very complicated. You can put pieces of it together, but there's no one overarching strategy right now. And I don't see that changing. I don't think Mr. Hollande is going to have much success with Vladimir Putin. Putin now has to play catchup after losing an airliner and a, and a fighter bomber.

BANFIELD: Yeh, I mean if it weren't already extraordinarily complicated, it just got much more complicated. Yeh, last word real quickly. Go ahead, General.

HERTLING: Yeh, Ashleigh, if I could just add to what Rick said, because it's a critically important point. Mr. Erdogan is basically saying, no, we purchase oil from -- and petroleum products from these countries, and it's a very above-board thing. Russia's saying the same thing. But, truthfully, what Rick just said -- when, when I was in Northern Iraq, every one of those oil tankers that goes across the border generates about a quarter of a million dollars. If you can just get 10 of those across, you're on the black market. Not officially, but on the black market, you're talking about a significant amount of funding that's going to support a terrorist organization. We saw the same with Al-Qaeda.

BANFIELD: And you're talking about a really big fireball when it's bombed from the sky. So we can probably expect that to continue as well. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Mark Hertling, General Hertling, Bob Baer, Colonel Francona, always good to see you and happy Thanksgiving to you and your families.

HERTLING: Happy Thanksgiving to you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Thank you, appreciate it. Coming up next, there is brand new video that has come out of that police shooting that led to murder charges against the officer and set off protests in Chicago, all because of the shooting death of this young man, Laquan McDonald.

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