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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Protesters Disrupt Black Friday in Chicago. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired November 27, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

[12:00:11] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashley Banfield, and welcome to LEGAL VIEW. We're following two breaking stories and both are out of Chicago.

First to the protesters who are aiming to disrupt Black Friday today descending upon Chicago's major shopping district as we speak. The anger continues to grow over a video of a white police officer shooting a black teenager 16 times and most of those shot after Laquan McDonald was already down on the ground.

Protesters are now demanding the resignation of the police commissioner as well as a federal investigation into the department itself.

Also breaking this our Chicago police holding a news conference just a short time ago announcing that a convicted felon and no gang member has been arrested in the execution style killing of little Tyshawn Lee. Tyshawn is of course this 9-year-old boy who was lured down an alley right near his grandmother's home and then shot multiple times at close range execution style. Police say it was all for retribution because of his father's rivalry with another gang.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARRY MCCARTHY, CHICAGO POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: That gang just signed its own death warrant because all along from day one when we knew the circumstances of this being gang interaction, I said, prepare the plan. Don't jeopardize the investigation, but we're going to go and destroy that gang now. And by the way, the rival gang, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We are covering both of these breaking stories at this hour, and I want to begin with CNN's Rosa Flores. She was at that news conference where police offered some detail on that little boys murder.

So get me up to speed on what we know about the crime itself, Rosa, and the people they think responsible.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's what we learned. We learned that three individuals, Ashleigh, are responsible for this killing. First of all, there's Corey Morgan. We'd learned that his arrested in a first-degree murder charges for the killing of Tyshawn Lee, the 9-year-old.

We've also learned that another man, Kevin Edwards, is wanted and he's already wanted on gun charges, now he's wanted in the killing of Tyshawn Lee as well. The name on their individual authorities not releasing his name at this time but they say that they're on to him. They're looking for this man and they believe that he is still in the area and that they will in fact arrest them at some point. They're asking for the community come together and do that.

Now how did they piece this together. Authorities say that they have forensic evidence and also witness IDs. People from the community, the superintendent says, coming together to help them build their case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCCARTHY: This is very clearly not a case of no snitching but there was a lot of fear which is completely understandable. If you have a monster who is willing to assassinate a 9-year-old, what is that person likely to do if they know that somebody is cooperating with the case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now we also learned more details about the actual crime. Authorities tell us that Tyshawn Lee was actually in the playground. He was lured from that playground to the alley that we've been talking about. Now I was there moments after that crime scene was cleared. We were covering it for CNN, Ashleigh. I remember speaking to you that the scene was gory. There was blood all over the place. People in the neighborhood very nervous because like you mentioned this is a, according to authorities, gang-on-gang related incident.

Now we also learned that this was the third murder in a series of murders that had been going on between these two gangs and like we heard the superintendent moments ago just say -- the police superintendent that this is a death warrant for all of these gang members that are operating in Chicago. They want to make sure that they stop this activity.

Just think about it, a 9-year-old shot in close range and this community calling for a stop to that type of violence -- Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yes. Truly an act of barbarism in their words, Rosa. A boy targeted and executed. A little boy targeted like that.

Rosa Flores, thank you for that.

Joining me now CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos and CNN law enforcement analyst Jonathan Gilliam.

Danny, first to you. That whole issue of the -- of the official saying this was not a situation where we had a snitching issue, but this was a situation where we had a lot of people very afraid to speak. [12:05:12] The worry here is that that could play into any defense

attorney case trying to protect these guys from going away for a very long time. If they were so scared you think, they're really going to tell the truth in this intelligence?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, number one, I think the way the chief moved away from the word snitching was important because he doesn't want to put targets on anyone's back in the community, but you know you always hear that snitches get stitches and nobody supposed to talk, but at the same time, perhaps there's no more gossipy group of people than organized crime members. We've seen that throughout history and no matter what the streets end up talking.

They get information, whether it's from someone who's a potential suspect who comes in for an interview and believe me, police detectives are geniuses at getting information out of people whether they're using the Reid technique or any of the other more modern techniques. They're very good at whether they're somebody who's a person of interest or just somebody on the street who may have information who gives it up confidentially but you're absolutely right. This is always right information for cross-examination by a defense attorney.

BANFIELD: Yes. You know, the issue of this police superintendent getting up in front of this audience, you know, Jonathan, the signing of death warrant for gangs sounds incredible. It sounds tough. It sounds like what the community wants to hear, but in practicality, cannot really be done.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it depends on the size and scope of the gang first of all. And this is organized crime so people need to realize that organized crime doesn't always stop with the particular gang. They could've affiliates were the drugs are coming from and it gets -- the picture gets bigger as you dive in there. What he can do, though, is similar to what Giuliani did here were when he was mayor and he went in and did the safe streets program where he had a cop on, he would pick an area where it was unsafe and put a cop on every block in order to identify and then eliminate those individuals in and around that area. And that's how, by and large, besides sources, actually sources coming forward and telling law enforcement, this person or that person is a gang member. That's the best way to go after them.

BANFIELD: Can we put that picture up, by the way, as we're talking about these most recent developments in this case, of Corey Morgan. This is the person who is now facing a first-degree murder charge in this execution-style murder of a 9-year-old boy, so they're not only talking about Corey Morgan. They're also talking about a second guy who was in custody and they're not naming him yet, and they're talking about a third guy, happy to name him because there's a warrant out for when they need him. His name is Kevin Edwards. If you know anything, if you can help these police bring him in.

These are the three names they say they believe are directly connected to this murder, although, Danny, they do not know who pulled the trigger and when you have three co-dependent, the defense is always that guy did it, not me, the other guy did it, and those are great defenses because it causes reasonable doubt.

CEVALLOS: They are but I wish they were as effective sometimes in -- as effective as the public perceives them to be because under conspiracy law, and I actually have to give a shout out to my law school professor who authored the RICO statutes that gave us conspiracy law and that allows that that for each of those people to be convicted. If they show that they were involved in the shooting it's almost immaterial who actually pulled the trigger, although in Illinois there are enhancements for the trigger man.

Conspiracy laws allowed us to charge defendants where we don't exactly know who pulled the trigger, but if we can show they were all part of the conspiracy, and that one of them committed an overt act in furtherance of that conspiracy with the intent then they can all be charged whether as accomplices, co-conspirators.

BANFIELD: Or a getaway driver.

CEVALLOS: Or getaway drivers. A classic example of an accomplice who can be liable.

BANFIELD: Yes.

CEVALLOS: Even for murder. If you never even possessed a gun.

BANFIELD: And you can bet your bottom dollar they are focusing intently on getting every piece of evidence they can because this is going to be a tough case and they don't want to mess it up.

GILLIAM: If somebody is a source or if they're thinking about giving information or if they're afraid now is the time to come forward and tell officers about this because it's an honorable thing for what happened to that child and they don't want to get caught up in this, so if you're a gang member and you're teetering on whether or not this is moral for you and you're having a moment of clarity --

BANFIELD: Think about 9-year-old Tyshawn Lee for just one moment.

GILLIAM: Now is the time. Right.

BANFIELD: That little boy had no skin in the game, nothing at all, and yet was just the most brutal of victims.

Thank you both, Danny and Jonathan. I appreciate it.

Coming up next, there are live pictures we're bringing in of protesters who are very angry over the -- at the Chicago police over that shooting. They're now hitting the streets of Chicago and they want to hit where it hurt right in the pocketbook of that town. They're trying to disrupt all that Black Friday shopping.

[12:10:03] Are they having an impact? Going to take you there live after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BANFIELD: I want to take you back live Chicago now and the very loud cry for justice in the wake of the police shooting of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald. These are protesters marching along the city's Magnificent Mile, and this is of course Black Friday, a critical timing for them as well. The Rev. Jesse Jackson is among these protesters. They are demanding the resignation of the Chicago Police Commissioner, Gary McCarthy.

But that's not all. Also want a federal investigation into the Chicago Police Department. Department. Why? Much like we've seen happen in Baltimore and in Cleveland and in Ferguson, Missouri.

Chicago Urban League interim president Sherry Reiner issued a statement saying, "We believe the CPD officers have engaged in the systematic use of excessive force and carried out a pattern of discriminatory harassment against African-American residents in the city.

[12:15:13] "Furthermore, they had been dishonest about those practices and in some cases even covering up illegal activity. It is imperative that the Department of Justice step in and correct this conduct before there is any more loss of life again."

Again that's the Chicago Urban League interim president releasing that statement. All of this in the meantime, Chicago's top cop is saying that he had no plans to step down and that he's working to revamp any negative aspect of his department.

I want to take you out live now to the streets of Chicago where our Ryan Young is standing by in and amongst all of those protesters, I'll add. And then we're also going to talk from Philadelphia with CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill who is a professor at Morehouse College.

First to you, Ryan, take me down to street level and just give me the state of the union down on the street. It's what the protesters are saying and what they want today.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, we talked to the Reverend Jesse Jackson in the last hour and now the crowd has started moving down Michigan Avenue. The first they stay on the North and South, but they decided not to do that. The crowd has really started passing us.

I'm going to turn the camera this way to show you how it took over the south side as well. So you can where we're standing. We're standing on top of a planter, and you can look this way and see how the crowd has taken over all of Michigan Avenue, both north and south at this point. Pushing down (INAUDIBLE). They were going to head south bound traffic still open but the protesters have spilled into outside closing southbound traffic down Michigan as well.

There are several different protesters that have come together for this protest. I can tell you at first some were listening to the police officers about which side to stand on, others decided they were not going to do that. They decided to get on that south side. We've already seen one arrest made just in the last 10 minutes so. But people want to make sure their voices are heard. So we've heard "16 shots, 16 shots." That is a prevailing chant being made throughout this crowd. And we hear people as they push their way down Michigan Avenue at this point heading to all the famous shops that everyone knows here.

This of course being done for Laquan McDonald. If you talk about who they want to get fired, they also want the state attorney to be fired as well. Of course there's a reelection coming up so voters will have that chance and make their voices heard if they want to. But you can see the action happening as everyone pushes up Michigan Avenue.

BANFIELD: So, Ryan, I want to get you to, as we're watching these live pictures, get your microphone as close to your mouth as possible that the protesters are loud and that is -- it is by intention as well. Are we losing Ryan there in the midst of protesters?

(CROSSTALK)

YOUNG: Yes. No -- no, no, we're still here.

BANFIELD: A little trouble hearing you but I'm glad I can still ask you a question, Ryan.

YOUNG: OK.

BANFIELD: And that is this.

YOUNG: Yes.

BANFIELD: If you can work me into the situation between those who have turned out on that strip to do those Black Friday, you know, shopping stores and deal, and whether there have been disruptions because as I understand it, the protesters would really want to be heard not only vocally but economically. They want to make a dent into the economic affairs of the city today on a very important day for economic affairs.

YOUNG: Certainly, but look that interaction hasn't happened just yet. That should happen maybe in the next two minutes or so when they make their way just down toward the mall here so that will happen. So far we've seen people who've showed up to shop early. But we haven't seen the intersection between protesters and mall shoppers at all. In fact we're going to step down office planners and start walking in that direction with the protesters live here. And Michael, just go ahead and do this.

But, look, you can see the traffic here. Police have tried to block this off, but you can see people trying to push their cars forward. And this is just what's happening. You can see the protesters who range in age and color and nationality, who've all shown up to be a part of this, but this city is one that never stops moving, so you can see the fact that there are cars, there are buses, there are taxis that are being blocked by this protest, of people showing up to voice their concerns and to show their passion in the streets of Chicago. BANFIELD: All right. Let's keep your shot up there, Ryan, and at the

same time while we watch what you're seeing, I want to get Marc Lamont Hill to comment on this.

Marc, the president just two days ago tweeted out how he was so proud of his hometown for voicing their concerns in a peaceful manner. This is definitely a peaceful manner that were seeing so far but it will have an impact. I mean, if they're able to do what they want to do they're going to affect the merchants of that city. They're going to affect those who want to do that Black Friday shopping, an American tradition.

I'm just so curious if there might be any kind of a backlash at all, the message they don't want, which is that this is sort of troublesome and not helpful.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I can't imagine how someone would think protesting injustice would be troublesome or unhelpful. I can't imagine how someone saying that we're not going to continue to fund our own genocide to be troublesome or unhelpful.

[12:20:03] I think it's actually a beautiful plan. If anything I would encourage people to expand the plan, right? We can't just protest on Friday because if you protest Black Friday, then it just becomes Black Saturday or Black Monday or black next week Friday, right? At some point, we have to make a different choice and say, we are not going to invest in institutions that are committed to ignoring our pain or making money off our pain.

We have to take the profit out of our misery and that's what we're seeing right now with people in the street. With people all around the country. This isn't just a Chicago problem. And this isn't just a Chicago act of resistance. This is a nationwide active resistance that were seeing and that I'm quite proud of.

BANFIELD: So, Marc, at the same time it's hard not to ignore the fact that there is another big lead story out of this city today and involving the police force and it's at the other side of the spectrum. The police today announcing an arrest, a first-degree murder charge for a gang member in the execution-style killing of Tyshawn Lee, and saying the words, we went days and days and days without sleep. You know, committed to finding justice for this little boy. This 9-year- old targeted execution.

Do you think that they will be able to foster any goodwill amid what we're seeing which is a lot of frustration and angst? Because on one hand they were giving justice for the death of a young black boy, and on the other hand, these people are protesting injustice for the death of a black teenager.

HILL: Well, first of all, I don't know how much we should applaud the Chicago police for doing the job that they're supposed to do. I'm glad that they're doing their job in some instances, as opposed to what we saw here with Laquan McDonald, but a more cynical reading of what's happening is they decided to make an arrest and make an announcement that diverts attention away from their own misdeeds, number one, and number two, that re-centers the conversations so that we're once again talking about gang violence and black-on-black violence instead of state violence against black people. Because as soon as they announce, OK, we've got the killer of a gang-related shooting then suddenly people say, see, you people are killing yourselves, therefore we shouldn't be putting so much attention on the fact that law enforcement are killing people or shooting them 16 times, 14 of which are done when they're on the ground.

So for me -- and I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm simply saying that this is a spin and a media opportunity for the police to make some good out of something that actually shouldn't be good. I'd like to have a sustained conversation about this young man whose life was lost. I'd like to have a sustained conversation about black-on-black violence but I don't want it to come at the expense of a more entrenched and deep conversation about the consistent execution of black and brown bodies, male and female, all around this country by state agents.

It doesn't police kill everybody. It doesn't mean that every shooting is bad. But it happens with enough consistency because we hear a lot talking about this girl. It happens with enough consistency that we need to have a national conversation on that and that constantly have our attention diverted by the black-on-black violence red herring.

BANFIELD: You got Ashleigh here, but I know it's tough. You're on a different location without a monitor, but listen, Marc, it's great to have you. Thank you for doing this on a holiday weekend and our Thanksgiving wishes to you and your family.

HILL: Happy Thanksgiving.

BANFIELD: And to our Ryan Young, we're going to keep those live pictures going and continue to give you live reports out of Washington as well.

Before the shooting video went public the white officer who killed the black 17-year-old was charged with first-degree murder so what more are the protesters demanding? Well, for one they want some answers about why it took more than a year. Answers next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:41] BANFIELD: Want to take you back out to the streets of Chicago. It is alive on the magnificent mile known famously for the shopping opportunities and today definitely a different view from the street level. This is an effort to disrupt the economic activity, the Black Friday, with a march in support of Laquan McDonald, that 17- year-old teenager who was shot dead by a police officer who unloaded 16 shot. The criticism is that the video took a year plus to be released and when it was it showed that young man was on the ground for the majority of those bullets being fired.

There is a lot of anger in the community and they have united to march on the magnificent mile in a very significant part of Chicago. And it's just actually been getting underway in the last couple of hours so we're keeping alive eye on it and we're going to take you live to our Ryan Young who is down on the ground at a point in a few moments but as I mentioned little more than a year, if you want to be specific on how long it took, it was 400 days before the police and the Cook County Illinois prosecutor released the video of that shooting of Laquan McDonald.

But that was only after a reporter actually made an official request that whole government thing, the Freedom of Information Act. It was the reporter and those actions that got that video out. All of this the protesters say requires a federal investigation. The attorney for the police officer who shot and killed the 17-year-old is no doubt working on overdrive, especially when you consider that that officer, Jason Van Dyke, has a bit of a record of his own. He's been the subject of 18 different citizen complaints, including excessive force and use of racial slurs.

And then you consider how he continued firing his gun at Laquan even after Laquan was down on the ground. That sounds pretty darn indefensible. And if you're his defense attorney, it is an uphill climb. They're called bad facts for a reason.

I want to bring CNN law enforcement analyst Jonathan Gilliam, a former police officer and former FBI Special Agent, and HLN legal analyst and defense attorney Joey Jackson.

Jonathan, first to you about that record. It does not sound good when you are charged with first-degree murder in a death like Laquan's and all of a sudden it comes out that you have all of these complaints against you.

[12:30:02] Can you put it in perspective? Is that more or less, average or above average, or below average when it comes to policing and people filing complaints?

GILLIAM: Well, I mean, look -- I can't speak specifically to this guy, Van Dyke, because I don't know the nature of each complaint, but law enforcement is on the street every day. That's their job. Like a doctor who goes in the hospital, a lawyer goes into court, officers are on the street every day and by and large they're interacting with the public when the public's not real happy. So you're going to get a lot of complaints. People do get complaints throughout their careers.

I don't know if they got the same -- if they get the same complaints or the number that are there but here's the thing that I'm seeing right now. You know, I've got a lot of heat because I'm backing the use of force, not the excessive use of force, but the use of deadly force in this scenario. However, if an officer is a problem that the department has to take care of that person and be willing and have policies set so they can fire them at the same time we are just talking about a 9-year-old that's killed in a community and you are talking about in this particular case with Officer Van Dyke, a 17- year-old running through a neighborhood with a knife.

None of these things are normal so as the law enforcement cleans up the department and sits policies to get rid of bad officers, I suggest this community in Chicago which has a real problem and communities all across the United States, that they go in and look at the morality of what's going on inside these neighborhoods and start taking care of the neighborhood and clean themselves up.

BANFIELD: Well, in fact the superintendent just said he signed the death warrant for one of those gangs. But I want you to speak to that issue specifically because as an attorney you know full well, whatever you've done in the past doesn't necessarily get into your current case.

GILLIAM: It does.

BANFIELD: In the case of this officer I have read account that that is not an unusual number of complaints for the number of years he was on the force. And it might not matter anyway.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, there are lies and then there are statistics. So statistics we can play with. This is what I do know from at least evaluating what I see and what I've learned about this case. You have 12,000 officers in Chicago. You have 465 of them who have 20 complaints or more. OK. And depending upon what you look at, either Van Dyke had 18 or 20, he's up there. That's about 3 percent of the police force. So, you know, I don't know how --

BANFIELD: Half of them unfounded.

JACKSON: You have --

BANFIELD: It's been reported that half of them --

JACKSON: Let's get specifically -- right -- to what his complaints were. But again, looking at those facts, 12,000 officers, 465 officers, about 3 percent, would have as many complaints as him. So this tells me something about this officer.

Now how is that going to be used in this case? The prosecution of course is going to want to look at those complaints and want to introduce them at trial, not to show that he had a propensity, not to show that he acted in conformity with this, but to show that he has a intent. A prior plan and scheme, and this was his actual MO and that's problematic.

BANFIELD: Let me just jump in for a moment only because our Ryan Young is live on the street in Chicago, as I understand, I think, Ryan, were you able to find the Reverend Jesse Jackson? I want to jump down to you on street level.

YOUNG: Yes, we're -- we are, we're with Jesse Jackson and Congressman Rush. We're walking along with them now.

Look, both of you gentlemen are here and I want to make sure you guys have a chance. As you're walking, you see the power of this march.

REV. JESSE JACKSON, ACTIVIST: Brothers who are here (INAUDIBLE) Black Lives Matters, ministers, officials, all around a single proposition in our urban areas. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The ban on urban policy, drugs and guns in, and jobs our, and there is no substantial urban policy developments and reinvestment in construction. In this case, while Laquan has kept our attention 450 have been killed this year, 2700 shot. Some of those person have not been captured who did the killing.

There's been a rush these last few days to bring about some relief. But I'll submit those who saw the tape and help it up at 13 months, the police chief saw it no doubt and sat on it. And the nine police who were his accomplices who saw it. Then I recommend they be fired. And this state attorney all need to go.

YOUNG: Thank you very much.

Congressman Rush, if you can make changes, what should happen now?

REP. BOBBY RUSH (D), ILLINOIS: Well, we want Chief (INAUDIBLE), we want to chief (INAUDIBLE) until we get it right. We haven't just started this. 45 years ago we were in the same position. It was the murder of (INAUDIBLE). 46 later here we are again. We want the state's attorney gone, we want to see a new grand jury, a grand jury. We want the police indicted, independent prosecutor, we want all of these things. I would like (INAUDIBLE) will not stop. These young people are taking the lead right now.

[12:35:00] YOUNG: And I don't want to stop because as a young person, how do you feel to see all this happen?

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, BLACK YOUTH PROJECT 100: Yes. So my name is Charlene Carruthers, I'm the national director of the Black Youth Project 100. Young black people from various organizations are calling on the police to be defunded. We live in a city where the Chicago Police Department takes up 40 percent of our city's budget while just a few years ago, we closed over 50 schools. What signal does that send about the value of the lives of young black people when we don't have a school to go to?

We need immediate firing or resignation of Anita Alvarez. We need Mayor Rahm Emanuel to resign. We need Superintendent McCarthy to resign. And (INAUDIBLE) be in the system where cops who kill our people, not only take our lives, they take our money and they do not invest in our future.

YOUNG: Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Look, the march stopped just for a second so we could do that interview. We're walking amongst the people. This is what they wanted to do. They are shutting parts of Michigan Avenue down. We're getting to the parts where there's Ann Taylor, Hugo Boss, Nordstrom, all these stores that we're walking by right now, people can't get to them with their cars. They can talk to them and right now the protesters are covering the streets.

BANFIELD: And that is what you call a citizen disruption and it is peaceful which his very important to know. This is something that President Obama had outlined that he was extraordinarily proud of the citizens of Chicago for keeping the protest peaceful.

We're going to continue to watch these pictures. Ryan, excellent job. I know that it's very difficult to do but he's

done a very skilled and adept job at getting that interview for us.

Right after the break we're going to continue our discussion of the legalities that surround what happened. The protesters are livid. But there is law at work and it is a tough case. But it doesn't mean it's impossible. We're going to discuss that in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:42:28] BANFIELD: We got live pictures again for you on the streets of Chicago. It is Black Friday, typically a day for shopping across this country. But these protesters have descended upon the magnificent mile in Chicago, known for its line after line of stories, to specifically disrupt the economics of Black Friday with the message that they want the superintendent of the police force there to step down. They want state's attorney to step down and they want the federal government to investigate the shooting death of a 17-year-old who was fired upon 16 times. The majority of those bullets when he was on the ground.

Laquan McDonald is the subject of many of those protesters' angst. The police are out but you can hear them yelling "16 shots." Sixteen shots, again, the majority of the shots when Laquan McDonald was on the ground.

There are a lot of issues in this case and we are going to talk at length about it. But first I want to take you out somewhere in that crowd and it's very hard to pinpoint where he is his father, Michael Pfleger, who is going to speak to me via telephone at the marches with those protesters. And if you don't know who Father Michael Pfleger is, he's been very outspoken in this community since the death of Tyshawn Lee, then 9-year-old child who is executed gangland style in an alley in a retribution style gang killing to avenge another murder and to punish his father.

The allegation that his father belongs to another gang today and arrested in first-degree charge of murder against that person who was arrested Corey Morgan.

Father Pfleger, can you hear me?

FR. MICHAEL PFLEGER, ACTIVIST: Yes. I can hear you now.

BANFIELD: Father Pfleger, I want to talk to you on this two stories that you're involved in today. The first of which was the announcement by the Chicago police that they've made an arrest in that brutal and barbaric murder of Tyshawn Lee, the 9-year-old boy. But then today the police not in the good graces because we're not talking about an arrested, we were talking about the killing of this 17-year- old. What is your message for the people of Chicago and for the protesters with whom you're marching right now?

PFLEGER: Right. I think what we're seeing today is murder of black youths is going on. Showing on the community who (INAUDIBLE). [12:45:02] I'm glad they arrested (INAUDIBLE) today but they also have

to remember the community with major (INAUDIBLE) as well as the community. But they also have to be just as strong about what happens to the (INAUDIBLE). And that's why people in Chicago, a man was shot down the shopping at Magnificent Mile (INAUDIBLE). And we're talking about people knowing that we're not going -- we're not going to tolerate this in Chicago. The state's attorney sat on this for 13 months. They put out $5 million and instead and the federal government has still not responded to this charge. This is unacceptable. People of Chicago saying enough of the killing of black children.

BANFIELD: Is there any thought among the protesters, though, about what's happened in the last hour? The news conference, the Chicago police gave to announce the arrest and hopefully a path of justice for the death of Tyshawn Lee?

PFLEGER: I'm sorry, I didn't hear your question. What?

BANFIELD: Yes, I know it's hard to hear because you're amidst the protesters. I'll try again. The Chicago police in the hour before we came live and we were able to come to you in this protest protesting the killing of Laquan McDonald, to these protesters have any affinity or thought towards the police for having made an arrest and a charge of first-degree murder in the in the brutal execution of Tyshawn Lee?

PFLEGER: I'm not even sure how many people are out actually to know all that but what I do know is they (INAUDIBLE) around Chicago to say they're tired of this police cover-up and they're tired of the state attorney's cover-up. And today we want to make sure in Chicago (INAUDIBLE) anymore. Outside you get louder and louder. But I tell people you met in Chicago that this is the (INAUDIBLE) in Chicago.

BANFIELD: Father Michael Pfleger on the telephone with us as he marches among those protesters. You'll have to forgive us, it's been very difficult to track him down. We know he's in amongst these peaceful protesters but the only way to actually catch him was via the cell phone and we appreciate him making that effort to stop to talk to us about this today.

We're going to take a quick break and when we come back we'll touch back on the streets of Chicago and the defense of the man these people without question, you could say, want to go down for the murder of Laquan McDonald.

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[12:51:48] BANFIELD: Live pictures once again on this Black Friday, notoriously a shopping day but today a day of protest down on the streets of Chicago. These are live pictures as you can, you know, on the Magnificent Mile and up until now things have looked very peaceful. They still do but you can see obviously a little bit of consternation in the crowd of protesters there. I can't tell you why. There a lot of different shots coming in all at the same time. There are many who have turned out to voice their support for these protesters and their anger over the shooting death of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald, a young man who was shot 16 times the majority the bullet fired after he was down, albeit with a knife in his hand, and that is a critical element.

There a lot of people in this crowd right now who say that everything that happened in that shooting was indefensible but there is at least one defense attorney who said it is not. And I want to talk about that job, of that defense attorney with my expert CNN law enforcement analyst Jonathan Gilliam who's a former police officer and former FBI Special Agent and also HLN legal analyst and defense attorney himself Joey Jackson.

Joey Gilliam, first to you. With your law enforcement training you enlighten me as to some of the training that these police officers get because the first thing from a layperson's view is you did not need to shoot that young man, here was on the ground.

GILLIAM: Sure.

BANFIELD: So what if he had a knife in his hand. He wasn't going anywhere near you. Why is that maybe only the layperson's view and not that police officer's view?

GILLIAM: Because police officers are taught not just tactics but the history of how those tactics developed and with the knife is the same with a gun. You have to look at each individual threat and the standoff distance in which it becomes dangerous.

BANFIELD: So I've got some video actually that helps me to illustrate your parent.

GILLIAM: Sure.

BANFIELD: A training video that shows the difference between someone at 10 feet away from you with a knife, 15 feet away from you, brandishing a knife, and 21 feet away from you, brandishing a knife. So maybe start at the 10-foot rule. If we can roll it from that video it will help show what the police are trained. Explain what happened.

GILLIAM: So basically this guy right here is at 10 feet and you see how quickly he can actually approach and close on the officer before he can even draw.

BANFIELD: 1.5 in fact. OK. And then in the next scenario.

GILLIAM: Even though this is at 15 feet you would think that it would change quite a bit, but the reality is if an officer doesn't have his weapon drawn already, they can actually close and stab the officer before they actually get a shot off.

BANFIELD: So now you're 21 feet.

GILLIAM: 21 feet but here's the thing to remember, even at 21 feet he'll be able to get a shot off, but is it an accurate shot? And that's the thing. All this comes down to defense of life, are you able to defend your life, the public's life, by having an accurate shot? And as the person charges you it doesn't mean that you're going to have an accurate shot just because you pull a gun and shoot it?

BANFIELD: So the critical thing here, Joey, is that the person charges you and a lot of critics have said Laquan McDonald wasn't charging anybody. He wasn't even walking toward, and yet there was 10 feet so that was the worst case scenario in the training video. Take me now into that courtroom in the defense of this officer because you know his lawyer is going to invoke this stuff?

JACKSON: Without question. Let's talk about both sides, OK. The prosecution is going to say that those issues, what we just saw, that's hogwash. Why? It's completely distinguishable from the facts of this particular case.

[12:55:03] Now in these videos you see that the officer doesn't have the gun drawn, right? And at the time of course their attack. In this scenario, you had officers who had their guns drawn were trained on the particular suspect.

BANFIELD: No, this one doesn't. This 10-footer doesn't have his gun draw.

JACKSON: Doesn't -- right. And of course he gets stabbed, the 10 feet, he doesn't have his guns drawn.

BANFIELD: And you're saying --

JACKSON: In this case --

BANFIELD: The officer --

JACKSON: The officer had his weapon drawn trained on the suspect, and the suspect was moving away, and so you're going to have the prosecutor say that it's distinguishable, entirely different from this. Of course the defense wants this and what we just saw to give the perspective of the particular officer to demonstrate how dangerous it is to be an officer and to demonstrate how much time it takes, very little time, in order for you to be attacked.

BANFIELD: All right. Have to leave it there but we're going to continue our coverage live on the street.

Jonathan, thank you. And Joey, as always, thank you. Have a lovely Thanksgiving weekend to you and your families. Appreciate it.

JACKSON: Thank you. Really appreciate.

GILLIAM: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Thank you, everyone, for watching. It's been good to have you with us. My colleague Brianna Keilar is life. She's in for Wolf. And she's going to take over the hammer after this quick break. Have a great weekend with your families.

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