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Updates On Friday Shooting Colorado Planned Parenthood; Officer Garett Swasey Killed During Colorado Springs Standoff; Russia and Turkey Tense After Russian Place Downed In Turkish Airspace; Donald Trump Demanding Apology From "The New York Times." Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 28, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:13] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM.

The day after. Shooting at a Colorado Planned Parenthood. Three are dead, including a police officer. Today, new details on the victims and what could have sparked the standoff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Started shooting and I was looking at his face. Five seconds we stared at each other, and in the five second period, those bullet holes went right through my windshield.

BROWN: Breaking now, France on edge denying entry to hundreds of people deemed a security risk.

Magnificent mile protest. Thousands take to protest the shooting death of Laquan McDonald. Today we're asking, did the protest work?

And Carson in Jordan. The Republican presidential candidate making a surprise trip going overseas to visit refugees. But will the trip silence critics of his grasp of foreign policy?

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BROWN: And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Pamela Brown in for Poppy Harlow on this Saturday.

And we begin with new developments in that deadly shooting at the Colorado clinic. The suspect in the bloody siege will be in court on Monday. 57-year-old Robert Dear is being held without bail. He allegedly opened fire yesterday shooting a police officers and others at the Planned Parenthood facility.

And this just into CNN, take a look, we are getting our first glance at the suspect's residence, this tiny yellow shack and black mountain North Carolina. This is where Robert Dear lived before he allegedly went to Colorado and unleashed his gunfire. We still do not know a motive at this hour.

All of Colorado is in mourning after last night's six-hour siege. Nine people are still in the hospital, including five police officers. The injured are all in good condition, we are told.

And we have team coverage of the story. Our Dan Simon is live in Colorado Springs. Our Sara Ganim who is looking into the life of this fallen officer is in New York.

But first, just moments ago, the Colorado governor John Hickenlooper spoke at the fire department complex. Let's listen in.

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GOV. JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), COLORADO: For his leadership, his dedication, along with all of the first responders. Anytime you have a situation like that, you really do see that this country is filled with heroes, and people that are willing to put their lives --

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BROWN: And, of course, one of the first responders the governor was thanking was Officer Garrett Swasey. And our Sarah Ganim has been looking into his incredible life.

Sara, what a man he was.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pam. By the accounts of everyone who knew him, this was a man that was selfless in everything he did. From being a father and a husband to also his former career as an ice dancer, selfless towards his former partner and also in his involvement in his church. Everyone who knew him is in mourning today.

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GANIM (voice-over): Officer Garett Swasey was a loving father of two, a former championship ice skater and a leader at his church. He was also a devoted police officer killed Friday in the line of duty when a man opened fire at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs.

44-year-old Swasey was an officer for the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs campus. He was on duty Friday when he heard the call of shots fired and rushed to the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've known him for about ten years and throughout the entire time watched him faithfully serve others and place others before himself in nearly every situation.

GANIM: (INAUDIBLE), a pastor with Swasey at his church was there when Swasey's wife had to tell their two young children what happened to their dad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cries and the sobs of her children learning that their daddy was never returning is something that will probably be etched in my mind for the rest of my life.

GANIM: Swasey was born in Melrose, Massachusetts, a graduate of Melrose high school. The mayor there saying as a class of 1989 graduate, I remember him to be a kind and caring young man with many friends dedicated to his skating career and excelling at all areas.

A six-year veteran of the police force, law enforcement was his second career after retiring from figure skating. He competed in the 1995 national championships and won a junior national title in 1992 in Orlando.

CHRISTINE FOWLER BINDER, SLAIN OFFICER'S SKATING PARTNER: Garrett is -- was the most selfless person I knew. Always there as kind of my confidant, my brother. He put up with me.

[15:05:11] GANIM: His skating partner Christine Fowler Binder talked to Swasey's mother on the phone.

BINDER: She wanted me to say, to remind everyone that, you know, Garrett died in the line of duty protecting everyone in our country. And that there's no time that he ever would not have done that.

GANIM: In the early 1990s, Swasey moved to Colorado Springs to train at the Olympic training center. Friends at the church say he defined himself through his faith.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here's a man who stands on principle and loves Christ. He might not be in alignment with the abortion industry, but he would be willing to go down and lay his life for those people.

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GANIM: There was a packed vigil today at a Colorado church honoring those three victims that died, including Officer Swasey. In addition today, all the sporting events will have a moment of silence in honor of their fallen officer - Pam.

BROWN: Sara, I just keep thinking, he was an officer at the local college. He didn't have to run into that danger, but he put himself in harm's way to rescue others. An incredible man.

Sara Ganim, thank you so much.

And take a look, this is new video of one of the vigils being held for the victims of the shooting. A crowd gathering at the all Souls Unitarian University's church in Colorado Springs to mourn those killed. And also honor survivors and first responders. Among those speaking, the president of the local Planned Parenthood clinic that was targeted.

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VICKI COWERT, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD, ROCKY MOUNTAINS: Yesterday, we know that the people in our health center responded quickly and with love. The 15 smart, brave people in that health center. Women and men did what they need to do to protect everybody in that building. They got them into safe spaces. They got them into lock down. And they waited. They got quiet. They turned their phones off. Our entire system was warned, don't call anyone in Colorado Springs. And we didn't. We waited. Long, long wait. And today, all of our staff are OK. They are home. They are safe. They're with their families. And I know that they're going to be back.

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BROWN: Incredible that all of the staff survived. And we are also hearing from survivors held hostage at Planned Parenthood for hours. One of them is 22-year-old Kentanya Craion. She is pregnant and went with her boyfriend to Planned Parenthood to get an ultrasound.

I'm going to bring in Dan Simon in Colorado Springs.

Dan, you spoke with this brave young woman. And I want to play your interview and talk with you, again, afterwards. She starts by describing the last moment she saw her boyfriend before gunfire erupted.

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KENTANYA CRAION, HELD HOSTAGE INSIDE COLORADO CLINIC: Last thing I recall was he was paying for the service, his card was declined. And from there, he went outside. And within 25 seconds, I just heard gun shots.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When you saw the gunman outside.

CRAION: Yes.

SIMON: What did he look like?

CRAION: Like he had no remorse. And this was just a game to him.

SIMON: Do you immediately recognize those as gun shots?

CRAION: No, I didn't. It tool someone to tell me to get down, you know, the various gunshots. Even within, I couldn't register because it felt so surreal. And at that point, when I had heard the gun shots, I was able to make out a picture of what was going on because I saw the gunman, and I saw him shooting. And once I realized that this is really happening, is when I flee the scene and went in the back rooms.

SIMON: So you saw him outside?

CRAION: Yes.

SIMON: OK. As you see him, you hear the gun shots and realize what's going on?

CRAION: Exactly.

SIMON: What are you thinking in your mind?

CRAION: Where's my boyfriend? What's going on? This can't be happening. It felt like a dream. Didn't feel real.

SIMON: And then you go into a back room? CRAION: Yes. So I ran down the hall. I try to open one door, it was

locked. I opened another door, and there was two people there. One was a nurse. And one was an actual patient. And from there, they had no idea what was going on. So I immediately pushed them in the door. Shut the door. And I let them know there was a gunman, you know, armed. Once they realized the gun shots is when we grabbed the table and placed it against the door because we don't have a lock on the door.

Time went by, I wasn't hearing much. Around 2:00, I don't know if it was before, you know, the armed car drove into Planned Parenthood or after. It was one of the two. But right after that had happened, you hear gun shots. And the gun shots weren't like the ones I heard prior. Because the ones I heard prior were clearly, you know, somewhere outside. It wasn't near, you could tell. It was not in the building. But when I heard around 2:00 the second gun shots, you could clearly tell it was in the building. It was near, it was close.

One of the ladies beside me started screaming, I had to tell her to remain calm, everything's fine. Because like I said the gun shots were there as clear as day. We can hear it. We actually had a bullet go through our wall. It came through one and went through the other. And you could see the gun powder and smell it. And it was just frightening at that point. We all just wanted to get out.

About, I would say 30, 45 minutes later, a police officer had contacted one of us and he let us know that he is coming. They are coming to get us. He wanted to know what end of Planned Parenthood we were at and he explained the procedures on how we would it is him. And then after that phone call, maybe 20, 15 minutes after that, you hear people walking in the hall. And then you hear the procedure and you open the door and there was a SWAT team.

SIMON: I know this was a sensitive topic with your boyfriend. You haven't heard from him. What do you think? What do you think may have gone on? Or happened?

CRAION: I don't know if the people who are injured have reached out to families yet or they just doesn't know my number. I'm hoping everything is OK.

SIMON: His number may have been stored in your phone.

CRAION: Exactly. I mean, I have called his phone like when it was happening, I called him, I text him and there was no reply. But his phone was active. And at a certain point my sister called and she heard someone pick up and then they hung up twice. And after that, his phone has been dead ever since.

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BROWN: What an interview, Dan Simon, in Colorado Springs for us.

Dan, first off, are authorities helping this woman track down her boyfriend? What do we know about that? SIMON: Well, she called police and they couldn't really help her.

They told her to call the hospital and ask perhaps maybe he might be one of the victims. And so she did that, and she found out that he is not in the hospital. So, obviously, as the time goes on, the worse it looks. Hopefully there are some kind of explanation behind all of this. But very trying time for her and her family. She just wants to know what happened here. We know that authorities have released the name of the police officer who died, but they have not released the names of those two civilians and we are told that's not going to take place until Monday.

BROWN: That must be agonizing for this woman to deal with that on top of the trauma of going through this active shooter situation. What stood out to you about her?

SIMON: Well, obviously, it would be anxious for anybody, you know, going in to have an ultrasound. She just found out that she was pregnant. She was there with her boyfriend. And here she is and she's about to leave and she hears the gun shots and sees this gunman walking around in the parking lot. She seems to be very welcome posed, however, especially given the fact that a bullet whizzed right by her sitting in that room. And so, we are grateful she shared her story with us and we wish her the best and hopefully she hears what happened to her boyfriend very soon -- Pamela.

BROWN: Absolutely. Dan Simon, thank you.

And still to come, the Paris terror attacks, new arrests and new security concerns. Hundreds being denied entry at the country's border.

Plus, black Friday shutdown. Thousands block holiday shoppers on Chicago's Michigan Avenue. Protesting the shooting death of Laquan McDonald and demanding the mayor and police superintendent resign.

And this --

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, this guy, I don't know what I said. I don't remember.

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BROWN: Donald Trump and the "New York Times" reporter new fallout and new questions today. Some asking has he gone too far this time?

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[15:17:58] BROWN: Well, France says it will not postpone the annual U.N. climate conference set to get underway on Monday. But security is high as nearly 150 heads of state and 40,000 others descend on Paris. President Obama is due to arrive tomorrow. And since the deadly attacks two weeks ago, France has denied entry to

nearly 1,000 people deemed to be security risks. And France says there are close to 15,000 officers stationed along the borders. Public demonstrations surrounding the climate conference have also been banned for security reasons.

And Turkey's president says he hopes to talk with Russian president Putin at the Paris climate conference. President Erdogan said that today that he did not want tensions with Russia to escalate. But he stopped short of apologizing for this week's shoot down of the Russian war plane. He says quote "we wouldn't have wished this to happen, but unfortunately, it did."

Russia and Turkey sharply disagree on whether the Russian plane was in Turkish air space when it was shot down. And today, Russia announced it's enforcing economic restrictions against Turkey.

And also in Turkey today, a prominent pro-Kurdish lawyer was gunned down during a news conference. And the entire incident was caught on camera.

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BROWN: You see the lawyer Tahir Elci highlighted right there. By the time the shooting was over, he was dead along with two police officers, another was wounded. His death sparked protests and police used water cannons to subdue the crowds.

Our Ian Lee is live from Istanbul with more.

So why was this lawyer targeted, Ian?

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, that is really the big question at that this hour. There is a lot of dramatic footage surrounding the moment where he is shot and killed. The one thing we do not see in this video is who shot and killed him and the exact moment it happened.

This man, Tahir Elci, is a prominent Kurdish human rights lawyer. He has been advocating for peace between the Turkish government and the Kurdish PKK rebels. And he was out, actually, there at -- holding a press conference about this very same thing saying that there needs to be political dialogue and peace between them. And that's when he is shot and killed.

Now, the prime minister of Turkey is saying this could be one of two things. It could either be an assassination or he could have been caught in the cross-fire of something else and just happened to be killed that way. They say they will carry out a thorough investigation.

But a little bit of background on Elci. Last month, he went on CNN Turk and talked about how the PKK, an organization that is a terrorist group, declared a terrorist group by Turkey as well as the United States that there should be called - that there should a political dialogue with them. Well, he was arrested after that. He was interrogated. He also had death threats against them. All of these things are going to be considered in this investigation, Pam.

BROWN: I imagine. Ian Lee, thank you.

And coming up in the NEWSROOM, the nightmare of Colorado lasted for hours. Civilians taking cover, and three innocent lives lost. So should we be calling this an act of terrorism? We'll discuss up next.

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[15:25:51] BROWN: Any motive for the bloody siege at the Colorado clinic remains unclear. Three people were shot dead, including a police officer. The suspect, 57-year-old Robert Dear is being held without bail. Nine people are hospitalized, including five officers.

And this deadly rampage was certainly a violent tragedy. But was it an act of terrorism? We will talk it over with our political panel, Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill.

And before we talk, guys, I want to begin by reading the definition of terrorism in the dictionary. And here is what it says. It says, terrorism, the use of violent acts to frighten people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal. To be clear here, we still do not know the motive of this shooter.

Ben, is it too soon to call it an act of terrorism given the fact it was in a Planned Parenthood building?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, if it comes out that this individual targeted this because it was Planned Parenthood, then it's absolutely an act of domestic terrorism. And I think there's no -- we shouldn't have a big issue with calling it that. When you have an individual or people that purposely target a group or a set of people for specific reasons, ideological reasons, let's call it what it is. That is an act of terrorism to not only scare the people at this place, this Planned Parenthood or any other clinic that may be going on. It's wrong, we should condemn it. And I'm glad that thank goodness, luckily he wasn't as successful as he probably wanted to be at killing people.

BROWN: Marc, I want to get your opinion on this. Because, you know, sometimes the line isn't so clear between crazy and someone doing something for their political ideology.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that's what's interesting, right? Because when it's an Arab, we immediately say it's an act of terrorism. Or if it's someone who was Muslim. About a year ago I caught so much flak because I didn't want to call a workplace beheading an act of terrorism because I said I didn't know the person's political ideology.

BROWN: That was in Oklahoma, right?

HILL: Exactly. And I said just because he is Muslim and beheads someone doesn't necessarily mean it is terrorism. He could be crazy. We need to know the political dimensions of this. I'm going to say the same thing. Now, if this person is advancing an anti-Planned Parenthood or what he would call a pro-life, ironically, stance, then yes, he is absolutely a domestic terrorist. But let's get the information first. Let's not threw the terrorist like a lot too fast. But let's also not exclusively reserve the term terrorism for people who are in the Middle East, to people who practice Islam, and not people right here in the United States who are the primary purveyors of domestic terrorism.

BROWN: And I want to read the statement from Planned Parenthood on the shooting. This is released before the suspect surrendered last night. It's from the rocky mountain Planned Parenthood president and CEO. And she says, we share the concerns of many Americans that extremists are creating a poisonous environment that feeds domestic terrorism in this country.

Marc, what's your reaction to that statement?

HILL: I agree with it. Now, I believe later on they adjusted the statement and they said acts of violence instead of domestic terrorism because they also wanted to wait and see. But I think they are right. There's a nasty environment right now that breeds domestic terrorism. When we see acts like this, it only emboldens others to do the same thing.

Planned Parenthood has been under attack unfairly for last - forever, especially for the last six months or so. And I think acts like this are the result of it. But they also produce more of it if we are not careful and vigilant about defending Planned Parenthood but also every day citizens who have the right to practice what is a legal act.

BROWN: Ben, why do you think --?

FERGUSON: I disagree. And here's why. It is absolutely OK to criticize a group and to go after a group for what they are doing behind closed doors with the videos that came out by Planned Parenthood.

HILL: I agree.

FERGUSON: To imply that somehow this individual acted because of those videos or because of the intent scrutiny on Planned Parenthood and what they were doing, which was harvesting baby parts and selling them, that is, I think, stretching a little bit too far. There are crazy people.

BROWN: That's disputed by Planned Parenthood.

FERGUSON: Of course it's been disputed. But let me make this clear. There are people every day that criticize people. It doesn't mean that someone that is crazy that does this, it is somehow is because of that discussion or that debate. There should have been a debate about Planned Parenthood. And we shouldn't not have that debate about Planned Parenthood on the videos that came out because we are afraid that one nut job might do this.

[15:30:07] BROWN: Marc? HILL: I agree with that point. But my point isn't to say talking

about Planned Parenthood leads to these crazy attacks. I'm simply saying that this is an extension of a very ugly sort of discourse about Planned Parenthood.

You can criticize Planned Parenthood all you want. But I'm saying that things like this are an extension of that. And it only makes it, if we don't handle it properly, we will have more of these incidents.

But what's fascinating to me is that that's the opposite of what people said when police officers tragically were killed after the Black Lives Matter process. People are saying, my God, all this anti- police rhetoric is leading to police dying. But somehow when it's Planned Parenthood, we can separate discourse from acts. But when it comes to the police, it is always a one to one relationship between the two. We can't have it both ways.

FERGUSON: When somebody -- but, Marc, let's be clear, when someone walks up and assassinates a police officer and you have people, they are protesting with the Black Lives Matter banner saying pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon. It's not as if I'm somehow making a connection that's not a connection. When we have whether we want dead cops, when it now being chanted in New York City; that is not an unrealistic connection to make.

BROWN: OK. Hold on, guys.

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BROWN: Can we hit the pause button on this and I want you to save your energy and sit tight because up next, we turn to Chicago, a city on edge, our Ryan Young is live in Chicago - Ryan.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As you look behind me, you can see Michigan Avenue is back open and people are shopping once again. But that was not the case yesterday as protesters shut down the middle of the street u upset about an officer shooting a black teen. We will have the story coming up, live, next.

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[15:36:41] BROWN: In Chicago, four people are under arrest following demonstrations that paralyzed the city's luxury shopping district on black Friday.

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BROWN: Those protesters aren't just demanding the resignations of top city officials, but they are also alleging there was a yearlong cover- up of a police dash cam video showing an officer fatally shooting a black teenager 16 times. Most of those shots after Laquan McDonald was already on the ground. That officer is off the force and has been charged with first-degree murder. But activists say there needs to be a federal investigation into the entire Chicago police department.

CNN's Ryan Young joins us now from Chicago. Ryan, you have been there in the midst of all of the action. Is there

any indication at this point that these protesters will get what they want?

YOUNG: You know, that's the big question. Everybody wants to know why it took 400 days for the video to be released. And that is the conversation that they had out here on the street yesterday.

Look, thousands of people showed up. They took over the entire street. Look at here now, you can see everyone is back to the shopping. Back to the sales they wanted to get to. This was completely different yesterday when we saw the people going block by block. Look, they stopped by the middle of the intersection. They said 16 shots, 16 shots. And then it will go all the way down. This happened during down the entire mile and this went on for several hours. In fact last night, as late as 7:00, 8:00, they were still standing with their arms locked, blocking people from going inside the stores. In fact, we talked to one protester who said this worked out the best way he thought possible.

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BRADY CHALMER, CHICAGO PROTESTER: They thought that we would respond by burning it down. The precious magnificent mile would be up in flames. But look at the city, we are out here peaceful. We want peace, we want justice, we want opportunity.

YOUNG: You see people locking their arms together. A lot of these folks don't know each other and making sure they are chanting. It has not been commerce (ph). How does that make you feel?

CHALMER: It's beautiful. I mean, it makes my eyes well up with joy. Look at the diversity. Old, young, rich, poor, white, black. We are all out here fighting for the same thing. We love this city.

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YOUNG: Pam, I talked to some managers who say their business sales yesterday flat lined after what happened here. Look, for several hours, they thought they would only block up the north lanes of traffic, but now they block north and south lanes. When you talk about the four arrests, when you think about the thousands of people here, there were very few incidents out here at all. In fact, police officers and protesters for the most part coordinated their efforts. I mean, they walked up one side of the street, the police officers made sure traffic stopped. They blocked both sides of the road. We saw protesters talking with police officers. Yes, we did see some chanting and asking for changes. Look, there is a federal investigation that some of these protesters want. So you can obviously understand they are taking this seriously and they want to see changes within the city.

BROWN: Ryan, the "Chicago Tribune" this morning reported that some shoppers out there in the magnificent mile balked at the protesters yesterday. One woman reportedly said she was American and just wanted to get inside that store and shop. What reactions do you see along the magnificent mile?

YOUNG: Well, we did see pushing and shoving early on when people locked their arms. In fact, one guy decided he was going to go inside the Nike store no matter what and ended up getting into a pushing match. But outside of that, we saw a lot of people just having a vocal conversation about trying to get in and out of the store which is good to see. You think about it. Only four arrests. So you know most of the incidents didn't get out of hand. We did see police officers some time coming to the aid of people inside the stores to get them out.

[15:40:09] BROWN: All right. Ryan Young, appreciate it. We will talk to you, again, soon.

And I want to bring our panel back in. CNN political commentators Marc Lamont Hill, a professor Morehouse College and Ben Ferguson, host of the Ben Ferguson show.

I told you all we had a lot more to talk about here.

And Marc, to you first. There was a lot of anger as we see in Chicago and a lot of it has to do with the fact it took 400 days for this video to be released. And only after a freedom of information act request. If the protesters get these top officials to step down, do you think that's enough? How far would that go toward bringing the city together?

HILL: Well, I think the only way you bring the city together is to get justice. People often call for peace, but justice is a precondition for peace. The only way you get justice is, one, for the officers to be investigated in this case and for the proper legal channels to be taken. Two, you need the people who were involved in this cover-up to be dealt with, as well. That goes for police and city officials. That's also something. And then third, we need some kind of sustainable solutions. That means citizen review boards. That means internal affairs not being the primary investigators of police. Police in Chicago in particular have demonstrated they can't police themselves. And so we need some sort of long-term sustainable solution to monitor the police and the police and to create sustainable outcomes in our communities.

BROWN: And the justice department denied an investigation to the police department. I believe it was last year.

Ben, what is your take on all of this on the protests and these demands for these top officials to step down?

FERGUSON: Well, there should be accountability. I also think that 400 days, plus, for the video to come out is just far too long. The public deserves to see that. I also think this is another blatant example of where, if we would have had body cameras, it would have given us a much better view of this probably a lot earlier on. We shouldn't have to rely on the dash board camera.

And Marc and I have come on here a lot. We disagree on a lot of things, but there's one thing we both agree on. How long is it going to take for something so readily available, so easy to implement in police forces around the country to just say, we are going to do this and police are going to have the body cameras so that we can see all angles of this quickly so there can be justice. Whether you're a wrongfully accused police officer or you're an individual that was attacked by the police and they went too far on their side.

This, I think, would help the situation out. And we keep saying these situations. And yet, we keep seeing dragging their feet by local community and police organizations and government officials. This is so easy to implement. This is something we should all be able to get behind. And yet, we still don't have body cameras on the mass majority of cops.

HILL: They just don't want it. I remember being in Ferguson last year, and we were on the ground there during all the uprising. And, you know, I saw SWAT team gear. I saw military-style weapons, grenades, helicopters, rocket launchers, I saw everything but dash board cameras. They had the resources to do it. They don't want to investigate themselves. They don't want accountability.

BROWN: But some police departments are adopting body cameras in the wake of all this.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I want to ask you this, Marc. Because we see this incredible display there on the streets of Chicago at the magnificent mile. So many people out protesting. We don't see this kind of display, though, after what happened with the killing of this 9-year-old little boy at the hands of a gang member. And we -- that kind of crime happens far too often, as well. Why don't you think we see the same type of protests?

HILL: Well, I think, first of all, I don't want to confuse with protests with response or resistance. Black people in particular have always resisted black on black crime. We have always challenged it. We have always been upset about it. We don't march against (INAUDIBLE) because I'm not sure that it would lead to an outcome. We march against law enforcement in the state because we have a good faith relationship based on our social contract that the state will protect us and the state will serve us. That is the least how it supposed to work. And so, when police kill us, we expect due process. Black people go to jail for killing black people all the time. There is no shortage of black people in jail for killing black people. But that doesn't happen with law enforcement. So we need a different response.

The way to respond on black on black violence isn't to march. Who would you march on? What you do is you have violence interruption which is what we see in Chicago. You have conflict resolution, which we see in Chicago. But also you need jobs, you need after school programs, you need music programs, you need arts programs, you need teachers, you need housing, food, clothes, and shelter. There are a range of things that are needed to prevent black on black violence. And we're trying to do that stuff.

BROWN: Ben, quickly.

FERGUSON: Let's be clear, though. If communities started to march against the gangs that were killing 9-year-olds, it might actually have an effect on these communities and start to turn things around. I think there needs to be some consistency here with those that are killing African-Americans regardless of what their race is. And if you have gangs that are infiltrated into your community, having a march and putting a spotlight on those leaders, most people in a community outside of that neighborhood don't know who the leaders are and who the gang members are.

HILL: That is happening.

FERGUSON: Starting to take them on in a public way. Let me finish this. If you started to take them on in a same public way that these people that were protesting yesterday are demanding that these public officials step down. Well, if you demand that the police take on these leaders and out them in your community, it could have a very big impact on violent crime against young African-American children.

[15:45:18] BROWN: All right. Ben and Marc, got to go. Let you both give your opinions there. Stick around, because we have a lot more to discuss.

We are talking Trump up next after this break. The Republican presidential front-runner accused of mocking a reporter with a physical disability. Did he finally go too far? Or will he continue to defy political gravity? We'll discuss it right after this quick break.

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[15:50:25] BROWN: Donald Trump is demanding an apology from the "New York Times" after flat-out denying accusations he mocked one of the newspaper's reporters for having a physical disability. Trump addressed the controversy a short time ago during a campaign rally in Florida.

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TRUMP: This reporter is so happy. People have heard of him now. Nobody ever heard of the guy. Now people -- he's having such a good time. The person has a disability. And the person said, I know him, I know him. And I said, when? In the 1980s. That's a long time, 30, 35 years. That's a long time ago.

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BROWN: So at a South Carolina event this week that Trump flailed his arms as we see here on this video and seemed to distort his speech while talking about the Times reporter, Serge Kovaleski. He has a condition that limits the movement in his arms. And though Trump claims he had no idea what the reporter even look like, Kovaleski says he and Trump were once on a first name basis.

Let's bring back our political commentators Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson to discuss.

Marc, to you first again. If any other candidate said what Donald Trump said and did what he did, what do you think would happen?

HILL: Well, I think different candidates have different leashes. Some are short, some are long. But I can't imagine anybody getting away with this but Donald Trump. It's remarkable what he's been able to say or do with almost no penalty. He is a side show. The one thing Bobby Jindal has ever been right about in his life is that Donald Trump is like a carnival barker. And as a result, everything he does is absurd and bizarre just creates more spectacle and bigger crowd. I don't know if it translates into votes when we get to Iowa. But it certainly right now is translating into a lot of attention.

BROWN: And Ben, Catherine Parker (ph) has an opinion piece in the "Washington Post" titled, "the Nazi Trump's gets the more some people like him." And this is what she write. Trump display was reminiscent of Rush Limbaugh's similar mockery of Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease. Though, their critics may rival them in private, few are willing to call either of them out foe their callousness for the same reason. Both (INAUDIBLE) have legions of fans who if you're a political candidate must not be offended."

What do you think about that assessment, Ben? And why do you think Donald Trump gets away with it?

FERGUSON: Look. I think there's people that like Donald Trump and there's virtually nothing that he is going to can say that is going to alienate them or make them stop supporting him. And that is what you call having fanatics that are around you.

The big question is are there new people that are willing to come to Donald Trump's side and/or vote for him. And I think that's where these comments get him in trouble. He has become the Teflon candidate, yes. But when it comes down to actually walking in a voting booth, closing that curtain behind you and pressing a button, can you do it for an individual that you're literally saying I want to be president of the United States of America who has actually mocked a reporter for being disabled?

Now, Donald Trump can sit there and say he didn't know who the guy was and he say, there's an unfair attack on me. I didn't know what he looked like. I don't believe him. And I think most voters that aren't fanatics for Donald Trump don't believe him. And sometimes the man have to say you are wrong when you are wrong and apologize and say that you are sorry because what Donald Trump did is reprehensible, it's disgusting, it's vile, and it certainly should not be a quality that people support when they are running for president regardless of what party they are in.

BROWN: Ben, Donald Trump is awaiting that apology from the "New York Times," doubtful that's going to happen.

Ben Ferguson, Marc Lamont Hill, thank you very much.

HILL: Pleasure. FERGUSON: Thanks.

BROWN: And we are just a little more than a week away from the night CNN recognizes this year's top CNN heroes. All of these remarkable individuals are making a difference. And what better time than Thanksgiving Day weekend to help them continue their inspiring work.

Here is Anderson Cooper to show you how.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, AC 360: I'm Anderson Cooper.

Hopefully by now you have had a chance to check out the ten remarkable people we're honoring on "CNN heroes: an all-star tribute." Each of them is proof that one person really can make a difference. And again, this year we are making it easy for you to support their greatly work.

Just go to CNNheroes.com on your laptop, tablet or smart phone and click the "donate" button to support any of our 2015 top 10 CNN heroes. You will see this page where you can make a contribution for amazon payments to one or more of this year's honorees. It is fast, secure, and a 100 percent that your donation will go directly to your CNN hero's designated nonprofit. You'll also receive an email confirming your donation, which is tax deductible in the United States.

CNN is proud to celebrate all these everyday people changing the world. And through December 31st, we offer you this simple way to make a contribution to their cause.

Again, from your laptop, your tablet, or your phone, just go to CNNheroes.com. Your donation in any amount will help them help others. Thank you.

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[15:55:22] BROWN: And all of our top ten heroes will be honored on "CNN heroes: an all-star tribute" hosted by Anderson Cooper next Sunday night, December 6th.

We will be right back.

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