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Shooting at a Colorado Planned Parenthood; Officer Garett Swasey Killed During Colorado Spring Standoff; Russia and Turkey Sharply Disagree on Downed Russian Warplane; Father Greg Boyle Hiring People Who Just Got Out Of Prison; Demonstrators Disrupting Black Friday in Chicago; Police Vowing to "Obliterate" Gangs Responsible for the Execution-Style Killing of Tyshawn Lee. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 28, 2015 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:06] PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And you in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Poppy Harlow.

And we begin this hour in Colorado where at least four survivors have been released from the hospital after the deadly rampage in Colorado Springs. At this point, we believe five people are still being treated. The suspect, Robert Dear, is due in court Monday. This is his mug shot here, held without bail in Colorado.

And I want to show you this. A look at the suspect's residence, this tiny yellow shack located in the woods near black mountain, North Carolina. This is a place where Robert Dear allegedly lived before he traveled to Colorado and unleashed his gun fire. It is about 15 miles east of Asheville, North Carolina. And coming up in 15 minutes from now, the suspect's neighbors are speaking out what they had to say about the accuse murder. You will not want to miss that.

And we are also hearing from survivors held hostage at Planned Parenthood for hours, one of them is 22-year-old Kentanya Craion. She's he pregnant. She went in with her boyfriend yesterday to get an ultrasound.

And I want to bring in Dan Simon in Colorado Spring.

Dan, you spoke to this incredibly brave woman. And I want to play the interview and talk with you on the other side of. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KENTANYA CRAION, HELD HOSTAGE INSIDE COLORADO CLINIC: Last thing I recall was he was paying for the service, his card was declined. And from there, he went outside. And within 25 seconds, I just heard gun shots.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When you saw the gunman outside.

CRAION: Yes.

SIMON: What did he look like?

CRAION: Like he had no remorse. And this was just a game to him.

SIMON: Do you immediately recognize those as gun shots?

CRAION: No, I didn't. It tool someone to tell me to get down, you know, the various gunshots. Even within, I couldn't register because it felt so surreal. And at that point, when I had heard the gun shots, I was able to make out a picture of what was going on because I saw the gunman, and I saw him shooting. And once I realized that this is really happening, is when I flee the scene and went in the back rooms.

SIMON: So you saw him outside?

CRAION: Yes.

SIMON: OK. As you see him, you hear the gun shots and realize what's going on?

CRAION: Exactly.

SIMON: What are you thinking in your mind?

CRAION: Where's my boyfriend? What's going on? This can't be happening. It felt like a dream. Didn't feel real.

SIMON: And then you go into a back room?

CRAION: Yes. So I ran down the hall. I try to open one door, it was locked. I opened another door, and there was two people there. One was a nurse. And one was an actual patient. And from there, they had no idea what was going on. So I immediately pushed them in the door. Shut the door. And I let them know there was a gunman, you know, armed. Once they realized the gun shots is when we grabbed the table and placed it against the door because we don't have a lock on the door.

Time went by, I wasn't hearing much. Around 2:00, I don't know if it was before, you know, the armed car drove into Planned Parenthood or after. It was one of the two. But right after that had happened, you hear gun shots. And the gun shots weren't like the ones I heard prior. Because the ones I heard prior were clearly, you know, somewhere outside. It wasn't near, you could tell. It was not in the building. But when I heard around 2:00 the second gun shots, you could clearly tell it was in the building. It was near, it was close.

One of the ladies beside me started screaming, I had to tell her to remain calm, everything's fine. Because like I said the gun shots were there as clear as day. We can hear it. We actually had a bullet go through our wall. It came through one and went through the other. And you could see the gun powder and smell it. And it was just frightening at that point. We all just wanted to get out.

About, I would say 30, 45 minutes later, a police officer had contacted one of us and he let us know that he is coming. They are coming to get us. He wanted to know what end of Planned Parenthood we were at and he explained the procedures on how we would know it is him. And then after that phone call, maybe 20, 15 minutes after that, you hear people walking in the hall. And then you hear the procedure and you open the door and there was a SWAT team.

SIMON: I know this was a sensitive topic with your boyfriend. You haven't heard from him. What do you think? What do you think may have gone on or happened?

CRAION: I don't know if the people who are injured have reached out to families yet or they just doesn't know my number. I'm hoping everything is OK.

[18:05:07] SIMON: Because his number may have been stored in your phone.

CRAION: Exactly. I mean, I have called his phone like when it was happening, I called him, I text him and there was no reply. But his phone was active. And at a certain point my sister called and she heard someone pick up and then they hung up twice. And after that, his phone has been dead ever since.

SIMON: What was the scariest moment?

CRAION: I think the -- there was a -- probably when I saw the gunman, then when I heard gunshots in the room. Like I mentioned, gunshots were there, they were close. It sounded like he was right out in the hallway we were in. So I mean, those two right there it definitely was the hardest the most terrifying thing that I've experienced in my entire life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Unbelievable. And to think they didn't have a lock on the door, in the room where they were and the bullet went right through the wall, unbelievable interview there,

Dan Simon in Colorado Springs. What more do we know about her boyfriend? Have they been able to make contact? Are authorities helping her at all?

SIMON: Well, it's still a very much a mystery, at least to us, what happened to her boyfriend. We know that they came together. They had that ultrasound. They were going to leave together. He went to the parking lot before she was going to exit and that's when the shots rang out. Obviously, as time goes by, truthfully it doesn't sound good. Hopefully there's some sort of explanation in terms of what happened. But right now, we are still very much in the dark. We know that authorities have released the name of the police officer who lost his life, but there were two civilians who also died in that shooting. And their names have yet to be released, Pamela.

BROWN: And they are saying these names will come out Monday at the earliest. And what about the crime scene? You have brand-new details, right?

SIMON: Well, we know that police are done processing the clinic. They went through and took all of the evidence. We know the investigation will continue.

Pamela, we know that one thing that authorities were really interested to know is whether or not there were explosives in the building. There were some indication that perhaps there may have been, both inside the building and outside the building. That's within thing that we're anxiously awaiting to hear to see what may have been on this guy's mind. Did he have a more sinister plot here? Of course at this point authorities have not released any kind of motive.

BROWN: All right. We will wait to hear and see about that.

Thank you so much, Dan Simon.

And as the Colorado standoff rolled into its fourth and fifth hours, thousands of people started listening online to the police scanner. They could hear police officers inside the Planned Parenthood clinic, discussing possible ways to diffuse the suspect. As listeners hung on to every word, police spotted the gunman crouched behind the counter. And I want you to listen to the carefully to this compilation of police scanner sound.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zero one. Multiple shots fired. Automatic gunfire coming from the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zero one, we still have shots. (INAUDIBLE) In contact. Gunfire is from inside the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zero one, gunshots fired zero one, zero seven, or zero one roll call.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE). We are shooting gunfire. Keep us posted. We have him isolated to a room (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Described that we have gunfire into that room through the walls, whatever. We have got to stop this guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We've been trying. First, second door you're looking at on the left.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two parties on the phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have him contained within a room? Can we effect those rescues?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Contained in that room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can see the suspect on camera. He is laying down on the ground. He jumped over the counter and he is laying down in the hallway. It looks like to the right. I'm not sure which direction it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back up here. Come around the front. Drive up here. Front door the lobby. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Confirmed. Did we have any squad guys jump over

the counter? Be advised, it looks like he is almost waiting. Use caution. He's coming out, got the AK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is he coming out? The front of the building. Get to the front of the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 39, he is sitting in a chair right behind that counter with AK. He is looking up the ceiling, white male, trench coat, it looks like maybe a beard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looking around?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's looking around. But he's still sitting. He's got the gun, low ready position.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And part of the way they were able to track gunman's movement as remote footage from security cameras inside the Planned Parenthood building. And one of the three fallen victim was University of Colorado officer Garrett Swasey. The 44-year-old father of two well- loved in this community.

Sara Ganim joins me now.

And Sara, tell us what you've learned about him.

[18:10:17] SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Pamela. You know, officer Garrett Swasey was more than ten miles away, working for a different police department, when he heard the call at one of his fallen colleagues was being shot at and he rushed the scene to help. And people who we talked to today who knew him say that this is who he was. He was selfless in everything that he did from his family to his former career as ice skater to his leadership at this church. Everyone who knew him, is in mourning today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM (voice-over): Officer Garett Swasey was a loving father of two, a former championship ice skater and a leader at his church. He was also a devoted police officer killed Friday in the line of duty when a man opened fire at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs.

44-year-old Swasey was an officer for the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs campus. He was on duty Friday when he heard the call of shots fired and rushed to the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've known him for about ten years and throughout the entire time watched him faithfully serve others and place others before himself in nearly every situation.

GANIM: (INAUDIBLE), a pastor with Swasey at his church was there when Swasey's wife had to tell their two young children what happened to their dad. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cries and the sobs of her children learning

that their daddy was never returning is something that will probably be etched in my mind for the rest of my life.

GANIM: Swasey was born in Melrose, Massachusetts, a graduate of Melrose high school. The mayor there saying as a class of 1989 graduate, I remember him to be a kind and caring young man with many friends dedicated to his skating career and excelling at all areas.

A six-year veteran of the police force, law enforcement was his second career after retiring from figure skating. He competed in the 1995 national championships and won a junior national title in 1992 in Orlando.

CHRISTINE FOWLER BINDER, SLAIN OFFICER'S SKATING PARTNER: Garrett is -- was the most selfless person I knew. Always there as kind of my confidant, my brother. He put up with me.

GANIM: His skating partner Christine Fowler Binder talked to Swasey's mother on the phone.

BINDER: She just wanted me to say, to remind everyone that, you know, Garrett died in the line of duty protecting everyone in our country. And that there's no time that he ever would not have done that.

GANIM: In the early 1990s, Swasey moved to Colorado Springs to train at the Olympic training center. Friends at the church say he defined himself through his faith.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here's a man who stands on principle and loves Christ. He might not be in alignment with the abortion industry, but he would be willing to go down and lay his life for those people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: There was a packed vigil today in honor of all three of those victims killed during that shooting. And today, every single sporting event at the University of Colorado, there will be a moment of silence in memory of their fallen officer -- Pamela.

BROWN: So many people mourning his loss.

Sara Ganim, thank you so much.

And this in just in to CNN, right now, New York is increasing security at Planned Parenthood sites across the country. Governor Andrew Cuomo says state police began increased patrol yesterday and will visit all of the more than 60 Planned Parenthood clinics in New York Monday. Cuomo adds a deadly shootings are a quote "senseless act of violence that left us all shocked and heart broken."

And with the world focused on ISIS, which terrorists are the biggest threat to America? Foreign or homegrown?

Plus, for the first time, we are hearing from a neighbor of the suspect in that deadly attack on Planned Parenthood in Colorado. Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:17:22] BROWN: Could the deadly siege on a Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood clinic be considered an act of domestic terrorism. The very definition of terrorism is use of violent acted to frighten people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal.

Let's talk about that with former CIA operative and CNN intelligence and security analyst Bob Baer.

Thanks for coming on, Bob. First off, should we be looking at Colorado Springs attacker as a domestic terrorist? Do we know enough about the suspect to say whether he would qualify as a terrorist?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, the more I see of him, the more I read about him, he was clearly had psychological problems. He had a long history of it. But the fact is he attacked a target, a likely target for domestic terrorism. And if he had no personal problems with people in that office, Planned Parenthood, I would say we would have to call it domestic terrorism. I mean, he is -- he probably had a political goal, but let's wait for the Colorado Springs police.

BROWN: To come out with the information on a motive.

And I wouldn't look at this study that was -- it's really interesting. It was by new America, Washington research center. And it shows that since 9/11 nearly twice as many people in the U.S. have been killed by white supremists anti-government fanatics and other non-Muslim extremists than radical jihadists.

In light of that, Bob, what do you think the bigger threat is do you think domestic terrorism is a bigger threat than jihadists?

BAER: I think right now domestic terrorism, I think it conflicts in the Middle East keep on going, eventually will be a blowback in the country almost certainly. But right now, I think law enforcement, especially ATF, is worried about domestic terrorism. There is a lot of loose weapons out there. People with causes, very angry. They can get automatic weapons. And I know in Colorado, there's a big problem with improvised explosives. I attended an ATF court a couple years ago, that was mare major concern, was domestic terrorism, not Middle Eastern.

BROWN: Bob, what do you think, though, because it seems like we focus a lot more and the media may be to blame, but we focus a lot more on ISIS and these terrorists overseas and people in the U.S. who align themselves with white supremacy groups and anti-government groups and that kind of thing, who may want to launch a terrorist attack. Why do you think that is?

BAER: Well, Pamela, I think the problem is these people are more organized in the Middle East. They are used to violence. They have been on battlefronts for a long time. They have grievances with the United States. We look at Paris. We look at "Charlie Hebdo" attack also this year and we say why aren't these people coming after us? And how easy it would be. And I think the analysts are all considering that, is the intention is to hit us. And they have the means, and what big question is why haven't they done it so far? Because it's so easy to do weapons are easy. Improvised explosives easy to make in the country. And all those shooters in Paris, a lot of them could have come to this country on a visa waiver program. And I'm cannot answer that question, but I understand why people are worried about ISIS. And also, their ability, of course, to knock down airplanes, which they presumably could do here.

[18:20:32] BROWN: And certainly not to undermine ISIS. And we saw what they did in the Sinai Peninsula with bringing down that Russian airliner, a clearly big threat.

Bob Baer, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

BAER: Thank you.

BROWN: And for the first time, we are hearing from people who know the suspected gunman in the Planned Parenthood attack. What they can tell us that may shed light on the motive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:24:35] BROWN: We have brand-new details about the bloody siege at a Colorado clinic. Twenty four people were safely evacuated from the clinic yesterday during a nearly six-hour stand-off with police. Also, 300 people sheltered in place at nearby stores, including a grocery store, a nail salon and a hair salon.

The suspect, Robert Dear, lists his residency in Colorado but also has ties to North Carolina. He is due in court Monday, accused of killing three people and injuring at least nine others. A neighbor of the suspect is describing his encounters with the man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:25:09] ZIGMOND POST, LIVES DOWN ROAD FROM SUSPECT: It's about the end of May when our dogs went over there. We had a couple of dogs over here. The guy that was helping me with my house, dogs went running over there, we had to retrieve them. And when we did, they were nice, really nice guy, you know, talking to us and everything. Gave us some anti- Obama flyers, little pamphlets. And I didn't even really read them. I just - I think I used them to start the fire in our campfire that night. But, yes, it was like the only thing I ever encountered. He had a wife or girlfriend, heavy-set lady that was staying there at the house. That's about all I have run into him. And I saw him at the post office on Wednesday. Said hi to him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Did he have anything to say?

POST: No. Asked me how I was doing. I said doing great. And we are passing each other in the parking lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Another man in that same town says he doesn't remember seeing the suspect around ever.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT DAIRYMPLE, LIVES NEAR SUSPECT: We have a lot of recluse out in the middle of nowhere out here. You drive around, there's little shacks and trailers and campers. And he could have been in any one. I don't know who he was. He didn't frequent the bar or we would probably known who he was. That's our community center. That's how you meet people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You see his picture.

DAIRYMPLE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Does that face look familiar in any way?

DAIRYMPLE: No, not to me. I just haven't seen him. But there's - there is a lot of people here and you only get to know a certain few. You don't get -- it isn't a really tight-knit community where everybody knows everybody. Most of people are up here because there's nothing to be on their own. I don't know that many people. I like to stay by myself.

The community is -- it isn't a really tight, cohesive community. Yes, we have the town of Hartsel. But the problem is most people that live up here like to be left alone. Most people are out there. And there is really Hartsel. All we have is the bar and a cafe and a gas station.

So if you don't bump into him there, you don't bump into him. So basically he could, you know, there is a lot of people that live here, people just don't know. I'm sure there's people that know him. I don't know anybody. A lot of people have called me and I don't know who he is. I've seen his picture, don't remember seeing him around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And that suspect allegedly lived at one time inside this tiny yellow shack, located in the woods near black mountain, North Carolina. It's about 15 miles east of Asheville there.

Well, turning around the lives of gang members, how one group is helping them get jobs and get off the streets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:31:10] BROWN: As homicides rise in major cities across the country from Chicago to New York to Baltimore, a gray haired Jesuit priest has been on a three-year mission to curb the violence, and not only save lives but turn them around through Homeboy Industry in Los Angeles, his is a mission of redemption, hope, second chances for men and women most of society has written off.

Poppy Harlow reports on this week's American opportunity.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They call him Pops, and Father G.

FATHER GREG BOYLE, HOMEBOY INDUSTRIES: This is a portrait of me from a guy on death row.

HARLOW: And this --

BOYLE: I'll see you, I promise.

HARLOW: -- is his church.

BOYLE: I have seen folks who completely despondent and can't conjure up an image of what tomorrow is going to look like. But I never met a monster. I never met an evil person, never.

HARLOW: This Jesuit priest has buried more than 200 people, many of them under 18 years old, all lost to gang violence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know out here in L.A., on the streets it's real.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been shot on two different occasions, for the record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cycle of violence. Cycle of being in the neighborhood.

HARLOW: Why do you do this?

BOYLE: Scripture has the thing of the widow orphan and stranger and these are folks you're supposed to have a preferential love for. These are folks at margins with folk whose dignity has been denied and folks who are demonized.

HARLOW: You call it boundless compassion what happen is that?

BOYLE: Well, it's a way of kind of making room for all of these folks, you know, no matter what. Kind of -- you know everybody's more than the worst things they've ever done.

HARLOW: In the city of angels, gang life and drive-bys, not just the stuff of Hollywood tales. L.A. has more than 450 gangs with membership over 45,000, according to the LAPD. You'll hear Father Greg Boyle talk about infusing hope in those to whom hope is foreign.

You call gang involvement the lethal absence of hope. What is that?

BOYLE: You know, not all choices are created equal. Wasn't ex- supposed to violence or people running up to car selling drugs or shooting. Everybody here has been exposed to that many times over.

HARLOW: The luck he was born with drove Father Boyle nearly 30 years ago to create home boy industries, pulling gang members out of the often deadly track they're on, helping them clean up their lives and giving them jobs.

Who gets to come here?

JOSE OSUNA, DIRECTOR OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS HOMEBOY INDUSTRIES: It's pretty much like the opposite of your typical job interview. We're looking for those people that have multiple felonies. We are looking for those people that are probably the hardest to serve as far as coming out of a gang life, coming out of those type of situations. Having served prison time doesn't hurt either. And the more tattoos you have, the better chance you have of being part of home boy industries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came in to remove my tattoos.

HARLOW: They help them remove symbol of their former life, taking off tattoos that bind them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like a different person. As you can see, trying to be a better father figure. A whole different life now.

HARLOW: We've got people who have killed people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

HARLOW: Who have carried out heinous crimes? Why does each person who walks through this door getting a second chance matter?

OSUNA: I think that that answer is as di diverse as humanity is. We have live by one of Father Greg's sayings, you're not as bad as the worst thing you've ever done.

HARLOW: About a thousand former gang members and men and women just released from prison walk through the doors each month. For many of them, it's a choice between life and death. And the way they see it here, nothing stops a bullet like a job.

For Steve, Angela, Janet, Carlos, and Lami, all former gang members, uphill battle has been tremendous. How old were you when you joined the gang.

[18:35:21] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 16.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 13.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 13.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 13.

HARLOW: Did you think you'd live to see age 50? Raise your hand. Any of you? No. Now, do you think you'll live to see age 50?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

HARLOW: Everyone. Angela has lost custody of her four children. How do you feel?

ANGELA NAJERA, TRAINEE, HOMEBOY INDUSTRIES: Every day is like -- you just have a hope, you know I mean. I know as long as I keep one foot in front of the other and do the right thing, it's going to be OK.

HARLOW: Janet spent three years in prison. Carlos served 13. And Lami served eight. Steve was sentenced to life but released after 17 years.

The gang life, what is it that drew you in?

NAJERA: It's just the feeling of being welcomed, you know, like a bunch of brothers and sisters you didn't have.

HARLOW: Like another family.

NAJERA: Yes, like another family away from my family.

STEVE AVALOS, SENIOR NAVIGATOR, HOMEBOY INDUSTRIES: My whole life pretty much family members killed or in prison. The same thing, the gang was a way of life. It was I don't really feel like I chose that lifestyle. That lifestyle in a way chose me.

NAJERA: For me it's like second chances. It's like a chance at life. Like a life I didn't know I had. Come here, Father Greg sees in us a normal human being and then some, you know. He sees us as equal.

HARLOW: Were you ever scared of relapsing, falling back into jail?

LAMI GLENN, TRAINEE, HOMEBOY INDUSTRIES: Yes, very much so. Very much so. Because we're what kind of drove me into the gang culture making money. It started with money making drugs, you know, selling drugs.

CARLOS LICEAGA, TRAINEE, HOMEBOY INDUSTRIES: I mean, after a while you come to realize that you do need a change. You can't just be out there your whole life running around not doing nothing for yourself.

HARLOW: Why do you think this works?

JANET CONTRERAS, SENIOR NAVIGATOR, HOMEBOY INDUSTRIES: I think it works because people come in, wanting that change. We don't look for them. We don't advertise it. It's on you, you know, you want to come here. You come willingly.

HARLOW: More than 30,000 former gang members have come through Homeboy, for those completing special 18-month program, Boyle says only 30 percent return to prison. That's compared to more than 60 percent across California, close to 70 percent nationwide. Just three years after they're released.

Why are your numbers so much better?

BOYLE: Well, I think a lot of times, you know, we have a menu and list of services to deliver, and then we become the DMV. You know, it's like now serving number 43. So what do you need? So you need counseling, OK. Parenting, good. Anger management. And we sort of dispatch people, we don't do that here.

HARLOW: What they do at Homeboy is job placement, mental health counseling, legal aid, solar panel insulation training and much more.

BOYLE: Then a bond developed that stronger than even their family and certainly stronger than their gang.

BOYLE: Homeboy only gets two percent of its funding from the government, and admits it is hard to raise money for many.

BOYLE: We are a tougher sell because they are human beings who have been to prison and who are gang members. This place begs the question, what if we were to invest in these folks rather than endlessly futilely trying to incarcerate our way out of this problem.

BOYLE: HARLOW: Jose Osuna sees this through their eyes like few others can.

Why do you help them?

OSUNA: I help them because that's the world I came from. I served 13 years of my life in prison myself. Eight years ago my 17-year-old son was shot in front of my house. I don't want any other parent to experience that type of pain.

HARLOW: What is the most profound thing that has happened to you here?

OSUNA: I jumped a guy into a gang when he was nine years old. And when he was 18, he received three life sentences. And all three life sentences were for crimes that he didn't commit. Eventually, through the appeal process, he was released. It took 18 years for that to happen. And last December he walked through the door of my office and asked me to help him. And I felt that my life had gone complete circle because I had helped bring this individual into such a violent and negative lifestyle and now I've been able to help him re-enter society and start the process of finding himself, because I love him. I've always loved him. That's what he was seeking from me. When he was eight, nine, ten years old, and I didn't know how to love him then. So I'm just grateful I know how to love him now. Father Greg taught me that.

[18:40:26] HARLOW: A gift so great, repayment is nearly impossible.

Is there any one that you have not been able to find Grace in somewhere?

BOYLE: Never. Never.

HARLOW: Poppy Harlow, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: What a powerful story from Poppy Harlow. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:44:28] BROWN: Beautiful shot there of Chicago's skyline. And in Chicago, tensions are high.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

BROWN: Demonstrators disrupting black Friday shopping along Michigan Avenue. This, after release of a graphic video that shows an officer shooting a black teen 16 times.

Also in Chicago, police are vowing to quote "obliterate" the gangs responsible for the execution-style killing of Tyshawn Lee. He is that little boy, nine years old. He was lured down an alley right near his grandmother's house and then shot multiple times at close range. Police say it was all because of his father's gang rivalry. And officials have now arrested this man, 27-year-old Corey Morgan, convicted felon and known gang member, and charged him with first- degree murder. Police believe he was one of three men involved.

And I want to bring in Michael Daly now, special correspondent to "the Daily Beast."

And Michael, you looked into this gang war that ended this little boy's life about those gangs you wrote quote "never mind your blood ties, faction affiliation, and therefore life and death is decided by what block you happen to be raised on." What did you mean by that?

[18:45:45] MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, I mean, if you spoke -- I spoke to a number of members of the banks involved, and you know, it isn't like a guy, you know, decides, all right, I'm going to join the new money gang or I'm going to join the bang-bang gang. Because if you happen to live on that block, that's the gang you're in. And the terrible thing beyond the age of this child was that he didn't even really live on that block. He lived with his grandmother in the other gang's territory and he just happened to have a blood line to someone who was with the rival gang.

Back in October, there was a gang member shot and killed, with his mother, and the mother was wounded. And the person is now under arrest for murdering that child was the brother of the guy who got killed.

BROWN: What was the reaction, I'm curious, these gang members you talked to, what was the reaction that a fellow gang member killed this little boy?

DALY: There were various reactions. The worst reaction I heard was a guy telling me, there are no innocents. That's the game. They call it the game.

BROWN: Wow.

DALY: And you are talking about people who this particular back and forth with these two, they are actually factions of factions of gangs. It goes back maybe two, three years. But the war itself, I mean, it goes back, you are talking - you are talking to guy whose are 25, 26 years old and that's all they have known. And it's just guns, guns, guns.

BROWN: And you also looked into the family of Tyshawn Lee. I imagine, they are still going through so much shock after what happened here.

DALY: Can you imagine if you were told that your son, your 9-year-old son, was in a playground on a swing set, and three gang members were sitting in an SUV watching him, one of them got out of the SUV, went up, took your son's basketball and bounced it a couple of types and handed it back to him and walked with him along and down into an alley and these other two guys came in behind him? Imagine hearing that.

BROWN: It is unimaginable. Unimaginable. Our hearts go out to that family.

Michael Daly, thank you.

DALY: Thank you.

BROWN: And stay with us.

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[18:52:14] BROWN: In just two day, world leaders will convene in Paris for a climate conference. But it's the fight against ISIS and the chaos in Syria that will surely dominate any sideline conversations among major players. With all the tension in the world right now, CNN opinion contributor and "Miami Herald" world affairs columnist Frida Ghitis wrote a piece for CNN.com that sparked a lot of interest. In this article she asks, how is this not World War III? Frida spoke with CNN's Fredricka Whitfield earlier today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRIDA GHITIS, CNN OPINION CONTRIBUTOR: We have seen -- we have seen the terrorism that has expanded and blown across the world from that we saw in Paris, in Brussels, in Australia, and Canada. And we have seen this brutal world between sectarian groups in the region, between Shiites and Sunnis. We have seen all these, these other conflicts between the Arabs of the region and in Iran. And now we are seeing the conflict between Russia and the west now starting to play out on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So for more on this, let's bring in CNN intelligence security analyst Bob Baer and also CNN global affairs analyst and "Daily Beast" contributor Kimberly Dozier. Thanks for coming on.

Bob, I'm going to start with you. I'm curious, do you agree what Frida says that there are signs of another world war here?

BAER: Well, I think we are certainly heading that way. Turkey is not backing down in the shooting down of this Russian airplane. Neither is Putin. They have levied sanctions. Reports sanctions. I mean, this has gone a long way already. I mean, the last time a NATO member shot down a soviet airplane was during the Korean War. We came close to a world war then.

You also have the fight also between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It is through proxies. But could this turn into a hot war in some slow motion logic of war? I think absolutely. We are certainly get closer there. What concerns me is no one has a political solution to head this off.

BROWN: That is frightening. Kimberly, what are your thoughts?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think that there is a lot of symbolism here that both Russia and Turkey are drawing lines to say this is an issue of sovereignty. But I think you would see Russia eventually back down if Turkey would issue an official apology. You have the Turkish president saying that he is saddened, that he regrets that it has happened. But he is still sticking by Turkey having a right to have shot down that jet while Russia is sticking to the story of we never heard a warning and we never went into Turkish airspace.

It is a lot of posturing ahead of the climate talks meeting. I think you are going to see another snub of the Turkish leader by the Russian leader. But I think down the line, Russia is also saying this is our first foray into the Middle East. And we are making a mark here. And they are setting themselves up for negotiations in the future to be in a strong position.

[18:55:09] BROWN: And, Bob, on that note, what do you make of Turkey now saying it is open to dialogue with Russia, as Kim said, after shooting down that Russia warplane. And now Russia is not softening at all. In fact, it is only hardening its stance now imposing these economic restrictions on Turkey.

BAER: Well, I try to look into Putin's mind. His invasion of Crimea. I mean, that could have, you know, precipitated a war, an important war. I mean, the man intends to keep Bashar al-Assad in power. And right now is continuing to bomb effect itchy our proxies and Turkey's proxies.

So he does not appear to be packing down. I hope he will. I hope he's rational. Just like he backed down on Crimea, I hope he does in the Middle East. But, you know, I have never seen the Middle East this bad before. I have never seen these divisions so deep, and so much hostility. And I have never seen a terrorist movement move out in such a strong way in the last month, shooting down the airplane, attacks in Tunisia, Mali, and then Paris.

I mean, it seems to be getting worse, not better. And coming up with a solution is going to take a unified world. Russia, the United States, Turkey, Iran and the European Union. And without that we are going to have a lot more violence which could break out into something that looks like World War III.

BROWN: And quickly on that note, Kim. You have all these countries bombing Syria right now that it seems like not all these countries are on the same page. And only if they were, it seems that would make a bigger dent against ISIS. DOZIER: I mean, you are right. And Bob's points are right that

Russia doesn't seem to be backing down. And yet we don't have major powers facing off against each other. We have proxies. We also have Russian and U.S. officials still meeting with each other and planning to get all the sides to a negotiating table at the U.N. sometime after January 1st. So they are still talking.

BROWN: Yes. Bob Baer, Kim Dozer, thank you very much. We have to go.

And next on CNN, back to back episodes of the CNN special series, "The Seventies."

Remember, you can get the latest breaking news anytime on CNN.com.

Have a great night.

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