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NEW DAY SATURDAY
Police: Gunman Is 59-Year-Old Robert Dear; Police: No Motive Yet In Clinic Shooting; Carson Camp: Refugee Visit Is Not A Press Event; Man Charged With "Assassination" Of 9-Year-Old; Colorado Springs Officers Salute Fallen Colleague; Security Tight in Brussels; Protests in Chicago. Aired 6-7 ET
Aired November 28, 2015 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: We're so glad to be starting it with you. I'm Christi Paul.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Victor Blackwell. We are following new developments out of Colorado. We now know the name of the man who killed three people including that veteran police officer in Colorado Springs. Police say the shooter is Robert Luis Dear, 59 years old.
PAUL: Police say Dear opened fire in that Planned Parenthood clinic yesterday sending nine people to the hospital including four officers. The 911 was flooded with calls as investigators say Deer held people hostage in an hours long standup nearly six hours before eventually surrendering to police.
BLACKWELL: Just moments ago, police gathered there to remember Officer Garrett Swasey. His body transported to the morgue. Officer Swasey was 44 years old, a six-year veteran of the police force. We will have more on the officers later in the show.
But first let's go to Stephanie Elam live in Colorado Springs with the developments overnight. They're learning a lot. But of course the big question is, the motive here, what else do we know about this gunman?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Victor, yes. I mean, you are talking about a six-hour standoff here in Colorado Springs yesterday. Still the motive is the question no one knows the answer to.
We do know that Robert Luis Deer is 59-years-old. We know that he was captured on the scene, which happened just down this road back here, which is as you can it has been snowing non-stop since this all happened.
But lots of questions on how this happened, but people are staying that the police really were heroic in doing their part to stop this and bring it to a resolution. Take a listen to what we heard about the end of this conflict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. CATHERINE BUCKLEY, COLORADO SPRINGS POLICE: We did get officers inside of the building of the Planned Parenthood. The officers were able to shout to the suspect and make communication with him. And at that point, they were able to get him to surrender and he was taken into custody.
There were 11 people that were transported to local hospitals. Of those 11 people, five of them were police officers from various agencies that have responded to date.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELAM: And what we're also learning is that apparently Dear was shooting randomly through walls and that's how so many of the officers were hit and injured, just a very scary intense situation here in Colorado Springs -- Victor.
BLACKWELL: Stephanie, there were others injured here, right? What do we know about the conditions of those people?
ELAM: Right. Right, so you have the loss of life of three people, right. The police officer and two civilians, who we still don't know who they are at this point.
But then have you the other people that were injured, the other police officers, totaled nine people that were injured, those five police officers and, of course, civilians.
What we understand is that they are all in good condition in the hospital, which is really quite extraordinarily considering how indeterminately this man was shooting and for hours while held up inside that Planned Parenthood building there -- Victor.
PAUL: All right, Stephanie Elam, we so appreciate it. Thank you.
BLACKWELL: So we also heard from some of the victims in yesterday's shooting. We played some of that sound at the top of the show including a man who said the killer looked right at him before firing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought about it. It was like 5 seconds we stared at each other and in that 5-second period, those bullet holes sort of went right to my windshield and then I had the blood.
And 4 seconds later, I'm turning, I think I saw his vehicle, which is a dark looking SUV with the front door opened, driver side. And then I just started getting away and I heard him shooting more at me. I never experience anything like that before.
[06:05:09] At that time, I wasn't scared. I was more angry and I don't know why. That's what's bothering me the most. I can't imagine. There were a lot of women in there, very innocent people in there. I just felt helpless that's all. I don't like feeling helpless. That's why I was angry, I guess. It's not right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Police say this shooter is now in custody and investigators, as we said, are trying to figure out the motive behind yesterday's attack. We have with us to learn as much as we can from CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI systems director, Tom Fuentes.
Tom, first with this motive, there isn't one that's at least identified publicly yet, but in your experience, if this shooting is politically driven, ideologically driven, is that something investigators typically have to pry out of a shooter?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Victor, good morning, normally no, because whoever does something like that if it's for political purposes or other, you know, that type of ideology purposes, they want people to know it. It's not just the attack itself, but they want the public to see.
But they want to actually have that confirmed. Now, most of the time in these situations, the individual ends up either killing themselves or killed in the police shootout. I think in this situation, it's a little bit unusual because they negotiated with them.
But they were in a very difficult spot because they knew bullets traveled within walls within buildings and that many of the people that were wounded and killed, that's how that happened. So they were afraid to shoot at him even though they had him cornered and knew he was in a particular room at that point.
But they also knew that there were people sheltered in place in nearby rooms that would be in danger if a continuing shootout happened.
BLACKWELL: Let's talk about how this ended because typically in these mass shootings or hostage situations, the shooter reserves that last bullet for himself. In this case, it ended after about six hours with this man walking out of the building. Does that indicate a man who did not have a plan, a man whose plan went awry? What are you gleaning from that?
FUENTES: Well, I think it's hard to tell. We don't know. We'll see if he says why he was willing to finally surrender and walk out the door. It may be that he was unaware of anybody being killed at that point and thought that the charges would not be that serious if he went ahead and surrendered.
It could be any number of reasons that all of a sudden caused him to stop shooting and actually do the surrender. That will be something police and interviewers working with him will help to find out. BLACKWELL: Any indication that this was involving more than one person, more than Robert Dear?
FUENTES: No, so far, no. Police have no indication that others were helping him, but of course, they have a tremendous fear of copycats or other individuals in the country they may have already been independently planning their own attacks. The FBI issued a bulletin in September warning Planned Parenthood officers around the country that there was a danger.
At the time when the hearings were being conducted in Congress, about Planned Parenthood, there was concern that it might spawn some people to commit violence either on the premises or against people working or using the facilities.
BLACKWELL: Yes, the "New York Times" reporting that this building was equipped with a security room with a supply of bulletproof vests. So we'll talk about that security concern throughout the show. Tom Fuentes, always good to have you.
FUENTES: Thank you, Victor.
BLACKWELL: Next hour, as we said, we are going to continue the conversation including more information about the 44-year-old officer, Garrett Swasey who was killed yesterday in that attack.
PAUL: Meanwhile, Republican presidential candidate, Ben Carson, is in Jordan to visit refugees. He is facing increased scrutiny for his foreign policy credentials, though. So a lot of people are wondering if this fact-finding mission will help his campaign. We are going live to Amman next.
BLACKWELL: Protesters in Chicago not backing down from their call for justice over police violence. A live report on what they did on Black Friday to stop the shopping there.
PAUL: And heavy rains, slamming Texas, deadly flooding here. We know at least two people have died. We'll tell you what we know.
PAUL: It's 13 minutes past the hour right now. Dr. Ben Carson is in Jordan this morning. He wrapped up his tour of a Syrian refugee camp. The goal of this trip is reportedly to better understand the refugee crisis stemming from Syria's civil war.
This also comes as the race turns towards a renewed focus on foreign policy and national security, the race for the White House, of course.
Meanwhile, we know Carson is in Northern Jordan, where he just met with some of those refugees. That's also where we will find CNN's Oren Lieberman.
Oren, what can you tell us first of all about the refugees that he did meet with and a conversation that were had between the two?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christi, at this point we don't know much about this yet. That's because this has been a very secretive visit that was only put out at the last minute. We weren't allowed inside with Ben Carson, who is here for about two hours and 45 minutes, just under three hours earlier this morning.
This behind me is the Azrac refugee camp with some 22,000 Syrian refugees. Carson according to the "New York Times" came here not only to share some toys and balls, but also to learn himself about the refugee crisis.
Carson like many of the other Republican presidential candidates opposes bringing Syrian refugees into the U.S. and more importantly at least for Carson, this is seen as one of his weaknesses, foreign policy, and national security.
In fact in an interview, he compared some Syrian refugees to rabid dogs. He flubbed the question about China and Syria. So this is very much seen as his weak point and this trip could be an attempt and not only learn more about the Syrian refugee crisis, but also to boost his foreign policy and national security credentials.
[06:15:11]So we know he was here for about two hours and 45 minutes. We know according to "New York Times" that he planned on visiting a women's clinic here in the hospital and a number of the other facilities within the camp.
But other than that we don't know much. He came. We saw him go in. He left. We saw him leave a short time ago. But the trip, so far at least, has been very secretive -- Christi.
PAUL: What is the makeup of this camp? Are they primarily families, children, what do you know about them and how long have they been there? Where are they going, those kinds of things.
LIEBERMANN: This is one of two major Syrian refugee camps in Jordan. There are reports that Carson is headed right now. That's the larger of the two that has some 82,000, but that camp is full. This is the newer camp.
This is where Syrian refugees now go when they're coming in from Syria. So this camp as of right now is about half full. It can be expanded. There are families here.
There is a high percentage, according to U.N., somewhere in the 40 percent range of children under 11-years-old so really children, boys and girls. Families, people fleeing the civil war in Syria and trying to find some sort of safe place.
That has been one of Carson's ideas, creating safe havens here, instead of bringing Syrian refugees to the U.S. So we hope to find out. We'll see what the Carson camp puts out about the visit here. We will see if that influenced his decision here.
The people he met, the facilities he saw. How this changed Carson as a presidential candidate. We've seen him struggling in the polls lately. A month ago he was ahead. Now it looks like the latest Quinnipiac poll he is in third.
PAUL: A very good point. Oren Liebermann, we appreciate it. I thank you so much. Victor, it's interesting to hear that he is now on his way, Dr. Carson, to that second refugee camp, too.
BLACKWELL: Yes, we'll find out what the purpose of this trip is. Let's start our talk now with CNN political analyst, Errol Louis. Errol, even Dr. Carson, himself, has acknowledged that concerns about his political chaps is certainly before the Paris attack and certainly since the Paris attack have been the reason for this drop in the polls.
There is also the question of his knowledge of the war in Syria. Listen to what the doctor said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we have to recognize is that Putin is trying to really spread his influence throughout the Middle East. This is going to be his base and we have to oppose him there in an effective way. We also must recognize it's a very complex place. You know, the Chinese are there as well as the Russians and you have all kinds of factions there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: No evidence the Chinese military is there. His campaign said they would release some information proving that. They never did. Is this a gimmick?
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The visit you mean, is that a gimmick? If it is a gimmick, it is one that is often used by presidential candidates. It wasn't that long ago that we saw Chris Christie heading over to Europe. They were pretty up front about saying what the purpose of it was.
It was for him to go and learn something about the world because it wasn't his wheelhouse. I don't know if Dr. Carson's team is putting it that bluntly. That's clearly what it is and you see from time to time.
Frankly, it's one of the parts of the political campaign season that is actually kind of refreshing to see candidates acknowledge that they just don't know certain things. They will try and learn.
If that's the spirit in which this is being undertaken, in which he sort of comes back and shares his conclusions with the public, then we can count that as time well spent as opposed to speaking off the cuff into an Iowa cornfield.
BLACKWELL: We have that sound, guys, let's play it in which Dr. Carson compared the Syrian refugees to rabid dogs. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CARSON: For instance, you know, if there is a rabid dog running around in your neighborhood, you probably are not going to assume something good about that dog and you will probably put your children out of the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: So the campaign says he's going there to learn, to listen to stories. Understand the flight. He's taken soccer balls and beanie babies. Can the doctor come back and still compare these refugees to rabid dogs or do you expect a change in rhetoric?
LOUIS: I would definitely expect a change of rhetoric. I think what you heard in that unfortunate gap was Dr. Carson kind of reaching beyond his competence for some kind of metaphor, some kind of image.
It's some kind of logic to talk his way through an area that he obviously didn't know very much about. I think once he's gone and in particular seen the medical facilities, which goes back to his strength.
I think he will come back hopefully with sort of a much more nuanced view and a reminder that these are actual human being that they're not an abstraction or some rabid dog or something like that.
[06:20:13]And by the way, the underlying thinking there about trying to solve the problem there to prevent the refugee crisis here and throughout Europe is absolutely sound. Where that's leading your viewers should know is to armed intervention.
The idea would be that the United States and perhaps the coalition of the west would carve out some space, create some refugee camps, take land from ISIS and create the possibility of refugees going or remaining within Syria or nearby countries rather than making the threat here.
So I think we've got the beginnings hopefully of a real policy debate. Let's hope we can get more about this trip that's been kind of cloak in secrecy thus far. We expect him tomorrow in the U.S. Errol Louis, thanks so much.
LOUIS: Thank you, Victor.
PAUL: Ahead, Pope Francis in Africa for his historic visit amid a lot of violence. Even though authorities say they don't have the capacity to ensure his safety.
Back in the U.S., police make an arrest of the death of that 9- year-old Chicago boy. The city superintendent now turns attention to the gangs involved saying the gang just signed its own death warrant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- the assassination of a 9-year-old child, as a gang retaliation to get back at his father. We're going to go and destroy that gang now and, by the way the rival gang, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Police say gang member, Cory Morgan, lured the 9-year-old Taishan Lee into an alley and then killed him execution style.
[06:25:13]Morgan has been charged with first degree murder, but investigators say he did not act alone. They have another man in custody, but police are still looking for this man, Kevin Edwards.
PAUL: At least three people died in North Texas after heavy rains caused widespread flooding. Take a look at some of the pictures we have coming in. One man, 29, could not get out of his vehicle before it submerged.
Then a 70-year-old woman presumed dead after her vehicle was swept away. That third person is unidentified right now. There is a flash flood watch in that area until 6:00 a.m. tomorrow.
BLACKWELL: In about an hour, we will go live where Pope Francis will meet with the country's youth. One hundred thousand are expected to gather. The young people and children there will talk about their experiences with militia kidnappings and homelessness.
Uganda is one of the fourth countries in the world and as you know the pope's biggest message is to help them live and support the poor.
More on the major story we've been following this morning, that shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado. We'll go live back to Colorado Springs for an update.
PAUL: And later, several protesters arrested in Chicago during the destruction of last Friday sales. A live report plus legal analysis of the case of Jason Van Dyke.
BLACKWELL: A short time ago, Colorado Springs officers gathered on a snowy road there and paused to salute a fallen colleague, Officer Garrett Swasey.
PAUL: He was a six-year veteran on the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs police force. He was 44-years-old father of two children, ten-year-old boy, six-year-old girl. And they are now taking care of him to find out exactly and investigating exactly what happened and how, the motive for this gunmen at the Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs.
BLACKWELL: Yeah, still questions there. But we do have this morning at least the name of this man. He is, of course, accused of killing that officer and two other people in Colorado Springs. Police say he is Robert Dear, 59-years-old.
PAUL: Police say he opened fire in that Planned Parenthood clinic yesterday sending nine people to the hospital, including five officers and a witness says the gunman unleashed a barrage of bullets with a quote "cold stoned face." Let's talk to Eric Singer, he is a reporter and news anchor at the Colorado Springs "Gazette."
Eric, do you have any word on when we are going to hear more from police about a possible motive or what this suspect may be telling them right now?
ERIC SINGER, COLORADO SPRINGS GAZETTE: Well, that's a great question, Christie. And at this moment, we are trying to assess that, trying to get new information as you well know on these kind of active shooter investigations or any act of criminal investigation. Information is slow, but sure to come out. Because they want to make sure that they are continuing to build their case and making sure that they leave no stones unturned.
Just a few moments ago, I was doing a little more of investigating, and I learned that the Kings Super shopping center, which was the epicenter of this whole crime scene, which is where the Planned Parenthood meeting is still closed down as police and other investigators comb the area trying to look for more clues.
PAUL: OK, so. Then talk to me if you can, please, about what you know about Officer Swasey and what it was like there this morning during this procession?
SINGER: Well, as you can imagine, watching officers salute their fallen comrade, it is certainly an emotional moment and learning more a little bit more about Officer Swasey, he grew up in Massachusetts and he competed with his partner Rachel Meyer, with the skating club of Boston in the eastern sectional championships. He and follower, Baltimore native living in the Springs in the early '90s, won the junior dance competition by winning both the original and pre-dance programs. He and Lori Thompkins, finished 13th in the 1995 U.S. figure skating championships, and later performed in ice shows in northern Maine. And he was a man of faith. He was an elder in Hope Chapel, which is a northeast Colorado Springs church, overseeing its three care groups and participating its teaching team and playing guitar as part of its worship team. And as you both were saying just few moments ago, he is survived by his wife Rachel and a young son Elijah and a young daughter Faith.
PAUL: I wanted to ask you about this center as well. There are reports that there was a security room in this Planned Parenthood center with a supply of bulletproof vests that are being picketed, I suppose or protests outside that center were not uncommon. What do you know about that?
SINGER: Well, I can tell you that just being a resident of Colorado Springs for many years, I did see Planned Parenthood protests outside of the center. That was on the sidewalk away from the center itself. And on public property. I never saw personally or reported on any Planned Parenthood protesters ever going onto the area unless, of course, they were immediately escorted off.
PAUL: Okay. Eric Singer, we so appreciate the update this morning. Thank you so much. SINGER: Thank you.
BLACKWELL: All right, we are joined now by CNN law enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander. Cedrick, good to have you here. A question here, so many hours after Robert Dear surrendered, do you expect law enforcement knows now a motive, although they've not made it public?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN ANALYST: Well, they may or may not, Victor. It's going to depend on Mr. Dear, himself, and how willing he is to cooperate with the investigation. He may be very opened. And all telling as to what his motives and ideologies may or may not happen to be. But I think over the next few days, as the news continue to emerge. I believe we are going to find more out about what his motives were, but is it just very hard to tell what he is saying to investigators at this point.
BLACKWELL: What do you make of that decision, as we see here those images of this man coming out of the Planned Parenthood Center? The decision to surrender. In many cases, these gunmen take their life before the investigators get inside the building.
ALEXANDER: Well, that was rather surprise, quite frankly, that it ended up the way that it did.
ALEXANDER: I hadn't expected, to be very honest with you, that he probably would have been neutralized in a shootout there with the police. But it did end without incident and one of the advantages of him being alive is hopefully we can learn what had started this with him. What was in his mind? Is there some mental health issues here, or there is some ideologies? Or whatever - it could be a variety of things that may have moved him to this point. But I think over the course of the investigation, and as they continue to interview him, we are going to know more being that he is a live subject and there is something hopefully to be gained. But here again, I also want to say too, my hearts and prayers go out to those who lost their lives on yesterday and those who are injured to recover very quickly.
BLACKWELL: Three people killed including one officer and the nine others injured as well. I wonder what you make of. And Christie discussed this for just a moment. The security precautions that the officials at this clinic had already taken, a security room with the bulletproof vests. We've had many conversations about soft targets as it relates to terrorism. But what more can be done realistically?
ALEXANDER: Well, you know, we do what we can. There are a number of soft targets in our environment and our local communities and across the country. But I think if we're just all, all of us as American citizens I think it's important in this day and time that we stay alert. If we see something, we say something, we hear that a lot. And we have to be able to practice that as well, too, Victor. But we live in a very, very different time in America's history. And rather the terrorism is domestic or foreign. We all have to be very alert. So, at these soft targets, there is only so much protection you can do, but all of us as Americans have a responsibility to look out for each other and look out for the environments that we're in, pay attention, notify your local police if you see something that's awry. And I don't care where you live, small town, large towns, medium size town, we all need to be on alert and stay on alert at all times.
BLACKWELL: Cedrick Alexander, always appreciate your insight.
ALEXANDER: Thank you.
BLACKWELL: All right, next hour, we'll take a closer look at, of course, the victims of this tragedy.
PAUL: And still ahead, 150-plus heads of state set to gather in Paris for huge climate summit. This, of course, just weeks after the horrific terror attacks. A lot of people wondering is it safe. Also, anger, gridlock, arrest in the streets of Chicago - the latest on massive protests over a teen's shooting death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Abat Bagrun (ph), 23. Rene Bishon (ph), 62. Claud Bussileaux, 27.
BLACKWELL: You see here France marking two weeks since the terror attacks there in Paris. The country honors the 130 people who lost their lives back on November 13th. And you hear there the names of the dead are being read out, their ages as well. You see President Hollande here in silence as he led that ceremony of remembrance. Of course, this morning, we are following the latest on the investigation after that attack in Europe.
PAUL: Despite the threat level in Brussels being lowered, there is still an awful lot of anxiety in the street. Security is tight at a popular Christmas market that opened yesterday in the Belgium capital. CNN's Martin Savidge joining us now live from Paris. Martin, what is the latest on the manhunt, first of all, for the terror suspects?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Christie, and good morning, Victor. Salah Abdeslam is considered the most wanted man now in Europe, and he is also thought to be the sole survivor of that terrorist cell that carried out the terrorist attacks here in Paris. He hasn't been seen since the Saturday after those attacks. And he was actually seen by French authorities. Now it's about 9:00 in the morning here in France after the Friday the 13TH, authorities pulled him over with two other men in the car they were headed in the direction of Belgium. There was no warrant out at that time for his arrest. He hadn't been named. So, after a quick check of the documents, they were allowed to move on.