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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Man Accused of Deadly Rampage to Appear in Court; First of Trials Related To Freddie Gray's Death Begins. Aired 12:30p-13:00p ET

Aired November 30, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ROBERT BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: ... Europe and coming back that's what the Paris attack difficult to get to him.

[12:30:03] And if in fact, he got away, I will tell you what this really tells me if there's some sort of underground railway for this Jihadists going into Europe and coming back, that's what the Paris attack has told us that you get in and hit a target and then going back to Syria safely.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: If in fact, yeah, if in fact he is there.

BAER: If in fact he is there, yes.

BANFIELD: Yeah, so what about the notion that we have not seen any go pro video, we have not seen any of the kinds of things that we would have expected from the terrorists like this who are young and media savvy, we knew that go pro cameras were found in some of these sites where raids were actually conducted and yet nothing yet, Bob, online, and you know it's their holy grail, you know that's what they do, they do the terror attack, and they continue to terrorize by making people afraid of the images they see afterwards.

BAER: Well, they don't have a fixed operating manual. Sometimes they'll use the go pro or sometimes they'll just depend upon people on the street to film the whole thing with the iPhone cameras. They don't really care. A lot of the operations are very ad hoc.

The Islamic state as I look at it is a franchise. So if someone wants to swear allegiance to it, carry out an attack, they'll provide the money, they'll provide the, you know, ways to make bombs and they'll go ahead and do these attacks on their own.

And the less centralization there is, the more likely they're going to fly under the radar European Security Services as well as the United States. So, you know, discussing this back and forth in e-mail, they want to avoid that. All they really want to do is teach this people how to make explosives, improvised devices and where to get arms from the black arms market.

BANFIELD: Yeah, but you know the last guy who was really reckless and showed a lot of the bravado in his online presence was Jihadi John who had a target painted on him from above and he is now dead. That's the operating thinking at this point, which makes me wonder if this Jihadist, Salah Abdeslam knows better than to trumpet what he thinks are successes.

BAER: Well, if the French catch sight of him, they'll kill him, they'll assassinate him no question about that. If he goes up online in Eastern Raqqa or some place like that, they will bomb him and kill him. I have no doubt that the French are after him.

BANFIELD: All right, Bob Baer joining us live from the Telluride, Colorado. Thank you so much for your expertise today, appreciate it.

Coming up next, the horrible act that united both sides of the abortion debate, the suspect in this weekend's Planned Parenthood slaughter due in court today, wait until you hear what he told police just after that six-hour standoff.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:37:08] BANFIELD: The man accused of a deadly rampage at a Planned Parenthood clinic is due to appear in court just about three hours from now.

It's going to be the first appearance for this man. By now you may have heard his name, it's Robert Lewis Dear, Colorado recluse who is accused of killing three people and wounding nine others in the siege in Colorado Springs on Friday.

Police say that Mr. Dear told them that he was against abortion.

The victims, a mother, Jennifer Markovsky and Iraq war veteran Ke'Arre Stewart and a police officer Garrett Swasey.

Officer Swasey was a former figure skater who had trained at one time with Nancy Kerrigan. But Kerrigan spoke out about the killing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY KERRIGAN, VICTIM'S FORMER SKATE-TRAINING PARTNER: A true friend, he was very loyal and loving, caring person. Good listener.

He was sort of passionate about everything, everything was done with a great big giant smile, and he had fun in life. So sad, he's got two young kids that they literally run to him every time he comes in the door.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: CNN's Stephanie Elam is standing by live in Colorado Springs.

You know, there are such curiosity about this defendant, and he's about to walk into the court appearance. Walk me through what he is going to be expecting this afternoon.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, what we understand is that it's going to be by video uplink, he's being held here where we are at right now at the El Paso County Criminal Justice Center. And we understand he's going to be arraigned, he's been held on without bond so far.

He'll learn the charges against him and we understand that the districts attorney office has 10 days to either amend those charges, add more charges against him based on what happened on Friday afternoon here in Colorado Springs.

BANFIELD: There much of a security presence where you are given the political nature of this crime?

ELAM: No, where we are, it's pretty secure. I wouldn't mess around with anything around here just looking around, so not a lot here. But we definitely that some people are on edge, people who were hurt, people who are injured. There were nine people who were injured in the shooting let alone the three people who lost their lives.

The police though have not actually called this a crime against Planned Parenthood even though everything happened there, they say it's going to take them six or seven days to actually process the entire crime scene, and figure out that that exactly was his target despite the fact that he mentioned things about "Baby parts and anti- government sentiments, and anti-abortion sentiments," as well.

BANFIELD: All right, Stephanie Elam, standing by for us live, thank for that we're going to come back to you during that appearance and albeit by video link, that there'll be some information we can glean from it.

I want to bring in my legal panel now CNN Legal Analyst Danny Cevallos and Mel Robbins.

[12:40:02] I am sure that the two of you having been in this business as long as I have or maybe Danny a little shorter for you.

Immediately, we hearken back, when we saw his image to Ted Kaczynski, similar to disheveled appearance, roughly the same age and then we saw reporting about his living accommodations. At one point he was living in a trailer out in isolated area in Colorado and then there was a shack, a shack in the woods, and that to me right there brought Ted Kaczynski to mind.

And then I wondered about the kinds of defense that this man would mount. So let's talk about insanity, because a lot of people wonder right off of the bat, will he have any grounds for that kind of defense?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, Ashleigh, it's an excellent question, and yeah I did think of the Unabomber for sure given the similarities and age and the fact that he was living in a shack. But there's another case that I think a lot of our viewers are going to also think about and that is the Aurora shooting case.

And James Holmes who was also tried to bring an insanity defense in Colorado, and Colorado is interesting because it's one of very few states where the prosecution has the burden of proving that he was sane. And that means legally sane, he knew right from wrong at the moment that the crime was committed, not medically sane.

And so he will be, I am certain, bringing a defense based on insanity, and I find it very hard to believe that since James Holmes, the Aurora shooter was not successful that this man will be successful. But you can bet that that's the only defense that he's got.

BANFIELD: So Danny, I look at the very scant facts that we have now at this early stage, he has even made this first appearance yet today. But we do know this CNN learned that he muttered some words to the investigating officers right away after he was brought in about baby parts and being an anti-abortionist.

And he also allegedly shot at responding officers. Into the layperson that says, "Well, he kind of knew something must have been wrong if he was shooting at the responders who were trying to stop him.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Can you honed right in on the inquiry. And insanity defense which is often misunderstood.

The issue is was he aware of the wrongfulness of his actions, and that's not a test of whether you personally believed what you were doing is morally justified. Instead is, it's are you aware that society deems what you're doing to be wrong.

So typically if you hide a body or run away that's evidence that, you know, that whether or not you feel you're morally justified, you know, society deems what you're doing to be wrong?

And I also hid it on the fact that if he has made any statements whatsoever to the investigators, those will be used by the prosecutors to show that he had some awareness that what he was doing was wrong, even if it's some sort of justification, anything that he tells the investigators...

ROBBINS: Well, even its own behavior he drove him was 50 miles, he brought a weapon, he hid and waited an ambush this people, he killed three people, I mean his own action show that he knew what he was doing, he was purposeful, he intended the result that he got.

BANFIELD: Yes, it's going to be real uphill battle, even again, like I said we know scant facts at this stage, but they are bad facts already.

Danny and Mel, thank you both, appreciate it.

Coming up next, back to the top story, the death of Freddie Gray and the first of six police officers who will stand trial successively in a row, in this type of an environment, how do you choose just one jury? How do you choose all six juries, impartial juries?

We're going to dig in to that with a jury consultant next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:48:06] BANFIELD: I want to get back to the top story now, choosing a jury for the 1st of six Baltimore police officers to go on trial in the death of Freddie Gray. William Porter is charged with manslaughter, second-degree assault, reckless endangerment and misconduct. So what he allegedly did not do while Freddie Gray was in the back of a police van on roof to a lockup after this arrest on April 12th.

Porter met up with the van on it's third stop when the driver called in for backup. Allegedly Gray asked at least twice for a medic, but neither Porter nor the driver obliged him nor did they buckle Gray into a seat belt which could have prevented further injury.

I'm joined now by Andrew Alperstein who is a Baltimore Defense Attorney and former Prosecutor and CNN Contributor, and Josh Dublin who is a jury and trail consultant.

Welcome to the both of you and thanks so much for joining me today. If I can dig in with you Andrew, it is often said that cases are won and lost in jury selection, and this is the day that the jury for the very first defendant is going to be chosen, but it is an extraordinary process in an extraordinary case.

What do you think the odds are that they are going to be able to find a proper jury with all of the right appearances, and a fair and impartial look to the community in Baltimore when just about everyone is connected to the case? Andrew.

ANDREW ALPERSTEIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's really difficult. I mean, you know, it's a high publicity case, and any high publicity case is challenging, but in this case, we have a city that was under curfew. So 100 percent of the people that live in the city were affected by the case, everybody knows about it, everybody that live here could have been a arrested if they left the house.

[12:50:02] Now, we are going to be putting those same people in the jury pool, because 100 percent of jurors come from people living in a city. So by definition, everybody knows about it. The challenge is going to be whether they can find people who can put their personal views aside and be neutral and impartial. I don't know how they are going to do it.

BANFIELD: So josh, let me bring you in. As the guy that the attorneys employ to sit with them at the defense table or just behind to either give the nod or the nix to those jurors, you know, under voir dire. We have already heard out of the 75 in the pool today that 38 of them, you know, that's roughly half of them have some connection to crime, themselves, either a victim of crime, investigated by law enforcement, convicted, incarcerated or under pending criminal charges. Put yourself on the panel, on either side, and tell me what that would say to you today.

JOSH DUBLIN, JURY/TRIAL CONSULTANT: It says to me that this case should absolutely be moved. It is actually as alarming as the recent assaults and murders of young men of color across this country, as alarming as that is, what should be just as alarming is the erosion of the presumption of innocence across this country, as made manifest by the judge. In this case is denial of a change of venue. There couldn't be a more perfect case, a more perfect candidate than a case like this that sparked riots, that the media coverage has been explosive, and what you are seeing here is a judge bending the to political pressure, and instead of upholding the constitution. There is no way, no way to get a fair and impartial jury in Baltimore.

BANFIELD: You know, I got to say, I have to just disagree with you only because, and I always come back to O.J., seems all rosely (ph) to O.J. They found a fair and impartial jury in O.J. they found one in Casey Anthony, they have found one in just about every one of these cases we assume it can't be done. Let me ask you Andrew.

DUBLIN: I disagree by the way.

BANFIELD: the motion was -- well, and you're not the only person. I mean, other definitely people who disagree, but, you know, again today, that motion for a change of venue was raised, I can only imagine it's going to be raised several more times through the process, but is it going to be an appellant issue, Andrew?

ALPERSTEIN: Well, before we get to that, the judge didn't deny it. He said that he denied it right now. He wants to see if he can seat this jury. So, I think that yes, he did deny it, but he's going to seeing how people answer these questions. People are going to get asked the question. Do you know about it? Sure. Everybody says yes.

The follow-up question that's going to be asked to these jurors is, can you put your personal feels aside and be neutral and impartial, and if people say yes, and their qualified under the Maryland law, because that we trust the answer answers that people give under the case law, and so, if they can't get a neutral and impartial jury, if people are say, no, we can't be neutral and impartial then at that point then the judge might reconsider this change of venue issue.

BANFIELD: Yeah, I've seen it in happened. I have seen through the process, and they had to up and move or they have to go to the other jurisdiction to bring in Jurors. We have to do it six times guys, so I'm to invite you both back, because there is going to be a lot of conversation as we go through picking stick different juries in succession.

Thank you to both of you. Andrew Alperstein and Josh Dublin.

ALPERSTEIN: Thank you Ashleigh. Thank you Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Coming up next. The hearing for the Chicago cop who killed a 17-year-old. H's charge with first-degree murder. But that has not kept angry protesters from marching through this street and talking about a cover up.

Will he get bail?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:57:55] BANFIELD: In just a few moments, from now the Chicago police officer who shot and killed 17-year-old Laquan McDonald is set to have a hearing. At first, the judge ruled that Jason Van Dyke had to stay behind bars, no bond after he was charged with first-degree murder, but that was because the judge wanted some time to look at the video. And today at 1:00 p.m. eastern and after having a chance to look at that picture at the series of pictures, the judge is going to make a final determination that's the plan.

Anyway, Rosa Flores joins me live now from Chicago with the latest. So to our expectation, the judge has had the weekend to review that very damning video, and maybe even the other videos. But do we know anything else might happen in the process, Rosa?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Ashleigh, if this judge watched whether it's local television or national television, he probably already watched the videos. So what we are going to be watching today in court is probably him making a final determination. But let me give you the background here because like you said, Jason Van Dyke was arrested and charge in the killing of Laquan McDonald last week, the initial bond hearing happened last week, and the judge denied bond, but he asked about video, and at the time the video has not been released. And so he asked for the video.

Now, we have that video for you, it is very graphic as you know, it shows Laquan McDonald walking through the street with a knife in his right hand, and then police cruisers were responding to the scene, including Jason Van Dyke. Now we know from the court documents that he started to shoot six seconds after he arrived on scene, and discharge his weapon 16 times, and according to the autopsy report, he hit Laquan McDonald 16 time. And of course, a lot of controversies here in the city of Chicago because of this, there were protests through the week...

BANFIELD: Yeah, of course.

FLORES:: and through the weekend and of course, the defense attorney in this case saying that his client, that Jason Van Dyke acted in self-defense. Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: All right, Rosa Flores live for us in Chicago, presumably the judge wanting all unedited videos, television not doing the trick for him, he wanted the real raw material. We'll see what happens Rosa is going to be covering that for us

[13:00:05] Thank you for watching everyone. Wolf start right now.