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Interview with Senior Pastor Daniel Hill; Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi's Ex-Wife, Daughter, Were Released by Lebanese Authorities; New Drug Reduces Chances of Getting Infected with HIV. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 01, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: And turning now to this death investigation into capital of Alaska where the mayor of Juneau has been found dead in his home. A CNN affiliate KTUU reports that police say Steven Greg Fisk's body was found by his adult son and called 911. Fisk was just a couple of weeks into his first term. He elected in October. There have been rumors that the 70-year-old had been assaulted. But investigators not been down speculation. Police say there were no signs of forced entry into Fisk's home. An official cause of death is pending the results of an autopsy.

Coming up next, a unique voice will respond to the breaking news that Chicago's police chief has been fired. We will talk live to Chicago pastor who has called upon white people to repent for a system of widespread racial injustice. He will have him explain his comments in his prayer last night outside of that jail where that police officer posted bond.

Also ahead the ex-wife of the head of ISIS has been released in this prisoner swap. And she now says she doesn't want anything to do with the terror group. Details on how and why she was set free.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:31] BALDWIN: We are just past bottom of the hour. You are watching CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In the hours after a Chicago police officer Jason Van Dyke bonded out of jail on murder charges in the death of the 17-year-old, Laquan McDonald, Black Lives Matter protesters rallied outside that jail. And one those protesters was a local pastor by the name of Daniel Hill and Pastor Hill's wife. And for a moment, he turned the protest staging area into a pulpit. He openly prayed and confessed before the crowd asking God to forgive his white brother and sisters for devaluing so many black lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENIOR PASTOR DANIEL HILL, RIVER CITY COMMUNITY CHURCH: To confess on behalf of my white brothers and sisters, for the history we have brought to this moment. The history of holding our people, our color, our kind as the epitome of most valuable and of devaluing so many other people of devaluing so many black lives. And none of us want to say it out loud, but we show it in the ways that our systems play out every day in our country. We see it when brothers and sisters are made in your precious image are shot down and shot over and over and over. We think of the precious bloodshed in the city by Laquan McDonald and by so many names who are precious to you. So we repent of the violent acts done in the name of racism. We repent of the apathy that has caused so many of us to sit on the sidelines and just watch in a bewildered state. We confess of everything that has gotten in your way of righteous injustice flowing like we confessed the ways that our white supremacy has affected our judicial system the way that it infected our police system. Where it has minimized the lives of other people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You just heard the powerful prayer. Here is the man himself, senior pastor of River City community church, Daniel Hill.

Pastor Hill, thank you for the time.

HILL: It's great to be with you.

BALDWIN: Take me back to last night and just tell me what moved you to pray like that.

HILL: Well, we're all just heartbroken over what happened and heartbroken over the reality there. So when a group of us pastors work together to do this prayer rally, I was asked by them to do a prayer of repentance. And so, that is what I felt was most appropriate in that moment.

BALDWIN: And when you said we don't want to say it out loud, what were you getting at there?

HILL: Well, you know, I'm coming at this from a Christian perspective. So one of the signature believes of Christianity is that repentance is the key to God's heart. That we believe in a God who is loving, who is gracious, that is compassionate and wants to pour that out, but, that we have to confess our sins and we have to acknowledge it and we have to name it.

And I like that it word repent. It has an idea of, at least in the biblical sense, when you repent, you're supposed to change your actions. But if you change your action, you're supposed to change the way you think. That is thinking kind of word. We have the same word from it.

And so, I think Brian Stevenson does a great job on this. He talks about how going all the way back to slavery. When you see that we instituted this system of slavery in our country, it was horrific in every way. We all know that. And human beings, every kind of human being knew how terrible that it was. So we had to do something to justify it. We have to do something to make peace with this horrible reality that was all around us. So we created a narrative. We creative a narrative that black people could be dehumanized, that black people could be devalued, that they could be seen as less than white people. We confirm that narrative along the way. We even put three fifths

human into the constitution for black people. And we are mourning, we are confessing, we are repenting the fact that that narrative though slavery may have been formerly overturned, that narrative is alive and well in today's day in age. And it infect its diseases every system and every structure and it continues to perpetuate this lie that black lives can be devalued and that we can denied personhood. And that's something that I believe we have to constantly repent of.

BALDWIN: I think that you are speaking about something that a lot of people perhaps don't have the confidence to say out loud. And so, I appreciate you talking about this.

Let me read, I was on you Web site today. And you know, you have written similar messages before. This was after - this was a blog of yours from July following the death of a black man by a white police officer.

You wrote. Dear white people, I hope you will burn with outrage when you are exposed to the chronic, persistent racial injustice in our society. Don't defend yourself, don't disassociate yourself, don't redirect the anger, just let it burn.

Here's what I'm wondering with these words. I'm also wondering on the flip side. Do you risk painting an entire race of people as racists?

[15:40:26] HILL: Well, I'm much more concerned with the system in structures than I am on individual behavior. And I think this is where I get stuck in conversations with a lot of my white friends is. They are so eager to show that they are on the right side of this and that they avoid, you know, anything that could sound politically incorrect or sound racist. And I'm like, great, I hope you do that. I think that is only a small part of what is the problem.

There's a narrative that's alive and well and it is diseasing, it is infecting the very roots of our systems and structures. And until we begin a de-rooting process of that, there's never going to be a change. Don't have the will to change that. So my goal isn't to help people prove we are not racists. My goal is help white people and others confess that we are all infected by this diseased narrative. And that until as narrative gets named and we start to root it out, things are not going to change.

BALDWIN: Pastor Daniel Hill, senior pastor, River City community church, thank you.

HILL: Thank you so much.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, new details about the mastermind of the Paris terrorist attacks and the expensive new clothes he was trying to buy for a future attack. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:58] BALDWIN: You have to look at these pictures with me. CNN now has these incredible pictures of the moment when this ex-wife and daughter of the most wanted man on the planet is handed over to terrorists. This is the woman who was married to ISIS chief Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Just now released by Lebanese authorities among 25 prisoners handed over to Al-Qaeda Syrian affiliate al-Nusra front. And you can see there are black flags there with the white inscription on its pickup truck. And as part of these prison exchange, the terror group freed 16 Lebanese soldiers and the remains of one of their comrades.

So CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank is joining me with more on this.

And Paul, we know that Lebanese security officials described the release of al-Baghdadi's ex-wife as this high value catch. So why release her like that?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I mean, her name is Saja al-Dulaimi. It's not clear how high value she is because she was married to al-Baghdadi only briefly. And six years ago just before he took the top job within ISIS, he was already involved in a senior position in Isis when they were married. But it was quite some time ago. So not clear what kind of role she may have played. I mean, ISIS has basically had their women play roles as wives, as mothers rather than operationally. Some of them have played roles as couriers or transporting money around, but by and large, it's a patriarchal group. So not clear how big a role she was playing.

And these days her family allegiances are much more towards Al-Qaeda, towards Jabhat al-Nusra which organized this prisoner swap and wanted her to be free. Her brother is a senior member of al-Qaeda in Syria. And her current new husband also believed to be involved with a group according to a Lebanese security source. And so the allegiance is going more towards Al-Qaeda these days. But along with her, and we'll likely travel into Turkey eventually too, the 6-year-old daughter of Abu Bark al-Baghdadi, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Let's move off the two of them and I want to get to the other news about this Paris terror attack mastermind. Because I know a source is telling you that Abdelhamid Abaaoud had tried getting clothes, very fancy clothes, shoes for, as he was hoping, an upcoming attack. Tell me about that.

CRUICKSHANK: Well, this is extraordinary new information that he was trying to task his female cousin, (INAUDIBLE), to go out and buy two suits and shoes worth 5,000 euros. That's more than $5,000, extremely expensive suits so that they could dress the part to launch an attack in the Latin parts areas of Paris which is an upscale shopping mall area of Paris, as a sort follow on attacks on the Friday 13th attacks.

And Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the ringleader in the plot who was going to be dressed in these suits had a previous track record of being involved in plots in Belgium in January were obtaining police uniforms to obtain the element of surprise. And it seems that they wanted to obtain that same element of surprise in this follow on potential attack in Paris.

Imagine you're shopping in this upscale mall and these two very well- dressed men suddenly open up against you with Kalashnikovs or blow themselves up. I mean, it's that element of surprise they were looking to get so they could kill as many people as possible, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Surprise and blending in did not happen, thank goodness.

Paul Cruickshank, thank you so much in Washington for us today.

Coming up next, this controversial new drug promises to significantly reduce risk of HIV infection. But some say it offers false sense of security. We will talk next to Dr. Sanjay Gupta and former child star (INAUDIBLE) who is living with HIV. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:54:15] BALDWIN: Want to make sure we talk about this today. Here is a sobering number, globally. Nearly 37 million people are infected with HIV-AIDS. Of those, nearly 22 million aren't getting any sort of treatment. So I wanted to talk about this today because today is world AIDS today. Two recent celebrity disclosures put HIV and AIDS back in the public eye. You have this story, actor Charlie Sheen made news just a couple of weeks ago by announcing he is HIV positive. And in September, former child star from the '80s sitcom, "Who's the Boss" Danny Pintauro told an Oprah audience he is living with HIV.

Now, the timing of these disclosures comes as controversy grows over this promising new drug, as known as Prep to be taken daily. It can reduce the risk of getting HIV from sex by more than 90 percent.

So I have Danny with me from Los Angeles but I also have our chief medical correspondent standing by to be part of this conversation, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. So great to have both of you.

And Danny, if I may begin with you, on the phone here, before we talk about, you know, this new drug, I understand you just finished participating in this event, which is why we have you on the phone. You are just on this event with Elizabeth Taylor AIDS foundation in UCLA. What has your day-to-day been like since you revealed your status?

DANNY PINTAURO, ACTOR (on the phone): Wow, that's a hard question, in the sense that it's been really great and really rough all at once. I keep saying, you know, the idea is that as a celebrity you talk about your movie or your TV show and it doesn't have to get more interesting than that. But when you switch over to becoming an activist, the conversations change completely. And you really have to sort of hone your words and guide the conversation, know what you're talking about and really become that person that people can go to for answers and questions. And you know, it empower people to want to make a difference. It's a whole other ball game, but I'm learning quickly.

BALDWIN: Let me stay with you because I remember I was in middle school when, you know, magic Johnson shocked the nation and announced, you know, he was HIV positive. And I talked to him on TV about that and all of the questions, you know, to this day that he still gets. And now that you have been so open about this, what are the -- what are the questions people ask of you? PINTAURO: You know, the questions haven't changed, which is part of

the unfortunate problem, you know. The media is in some ways still sort of stuck in the magic Johnson period time when it comes to their sort of knowledge on where we have come with HIV and what the right questions to ask are.

You know, the last question that anyone should really be worried about is how I specifically got it. The question should be, what am I doing to fix it, and what am I doing to take care of myself, and how am I doing things to help others and help the people I love. You know, that's the important question for sure.

So it really starts with that. Like that -- it doesn't matter, you know. I've got it and I'm dealing with it. And let's talk about what we can do together to end the epidemic, because it is still an epidemic, 50,000 people a year are still contracting the virus. That number hasn't changed in 20 years.

BALDWIN: So, with that, Danny, stay with me.

But Sanjay, let me bring just you in. I want your voice. And you have talked a lot about this through the years. And you know, what are some of the -- I don't know if fix is the right word, but as we talk about this epidemic, what is helping those who do have -- who are HIV positive?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, one of the big pieces of news just over the last couple of years has been a new medication, known as (INAUDIBLE) which is also have been called Prep, pre-exposure prophylaxis. But this is a medication that if it's a pill taken once a day, can greatly limit the chance of you contracting HIV. So someone who is considered high risk for HIV, there are doctors out there who may offer this as an option to those patients.

Now, what is striking, Brooke, and I think Danny sort of touched on this, is that, that is pretty big news. I mean, think about that. It can reduce the chance of someone infected by 90 percent in certain situations. That's a big deal. And yet there is a lot of people who are still not getting it because there is always - there is always some conflict with these sort of things. If you give a medication that can prevent or greatly diminish chance of getting HIV, might it lead to higher risk behavior again?

The studies haven't shown that it leads to higher risk behavior with this particular medication, but that's a good option for people if we can get beyond some of these philosophical concerns.

BALDWIN: What should people know? On this world AIDS day, it is something we don't talk enough about and, you know, the onus is on us, we should be, but what should we be telling people, educating people, in the 60 seconds I have with you, Sanjay? You've talked so much about in this.

GUPTA: There was a funny thing that happened sometimes in public health and in medicine overall. And that is in some ways, we can become victims of our success. We have developed wonderful options and treatments. And as I just mentioned, possible preventative therapy as well.

And the idea that because of those successes, that can sometimes lead to complacency. That can sometimes lead to lack of urgency. We don't have a cure for the disease yet. And, as Danny point the out, it's still a large number of people who are contracting the virus in the United States and around the world. There are tens of millions of people who are still living with the virus. So we cannot get complacent just because we have had some wins. That can't let people take their eyes off the ball on this.

BALDWIN: Danny, 20 seconds, what do you want people to know today?

PINTAURO: Get tested. We could end the whole situation if everyone knows their status. If you know your status, you are getting medications to take care of yourself if you're positive. And if you're negative, then you are doing what you need to do to take care of yourself. If everybody knows their status, then we can eliminate new infections.

BALDWIN: Get tested, get tested, get tested.

Danny Pintauro and Sanjay Gupta, thank you both so much. Such an important message on this world AIDS day, and really any other day for that matter.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me. I will see you back here tomorrow.

In the meantime, "the LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.