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More U.S. Troops Headed to Iraq, Syria; Giuliani's Take on Muslims Celebrating on 9/11; Trump Still on Top of Polls. Aired 1:30- 2p ET

Aired December 01, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:37] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Let's get back to the breaking news in the war against ISIS. More U.S. Special Operations forces are now heading, not only to Iraq, but to Syria as well. No exact number, but maybe as many as 200. Apparently, more than the 50 who were originally deployed some weeks ago. They are on the way right now. As a result, the potential of 250 U.S. troops, combat boots on the ground at one point could be in Syria at any moment.

Earlier, up on Capitol Hill, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Joseph Dunford, testified before the House Committee on the strategy against ISIS, and he spoke about the overall force of some 3500 U.S. troops still in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOSEPH DUNFORD, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I don't believe that we are limited by the number 3500. And we are managing 3500, because that is the number of the troops that the president has approved to date. But I assure you that I don't feel at all inhibited to make recommendations that would cause us to grow greater than 3500 if I believe it would help us to defeat ISIL. The enemy does not respect boundaries, and neither do we. We are fighting a campaign across Iraq and Syria, so we will go where the enemy is, and we will conduct operations where they most effectively degrade the capabilities of the enemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Representative Mike Coffman is a Republican from Colorado, a member of the House Armed Services Committee. He was there at the hearings. He's with me right now.

Representative, thanks very much for joining us.

REP. MIKE COFFMAN (R), COLORADO: thanks very much for having me.

BLITZER: Are you satisfied by what you heard from the chairman of the joint chiefs?

COFFMAN: Well, I think that we are moving in the right direction, and the notion of putting the Special Operators in theater to take out the high-value targets is positive. Going after the revenue sources such as oil tankers or trucks, it is positive. We could still be more aggressive in pursuing that the oil infrastructure which fuels ISIS and the local economy, but the footprint has shrunk, but popping up in places like Libya, and we are moving in the right direction, but albeit, slowly.

BLITZER: You know the criticism, because you are bracing for it, and originally the president said 50 Special Operations forces would be deployed inside of Syria, and now another 200 base based in Iraq, and they will go into Syria and that is going to be bringing it up to the 250, and the phrase mission creep comes to mind. Are you concerned about that?

COFFMAN: Well, it is a commander-in-chief who has been very slow to grasp the magnitude of the problem. He assessed them at one point in time as the J.V. time, and we know that is not accurate. But I think that we have to degrade and destroy ISIS, and we are on the road at least to doing that in Iraq and Syria.

BLITZER: How frustrated are you that the Turkey, apparently, if you believe the president of the United States, is not doing what it should be doing and sealing off the border between Syria and Turkey?

COFFMAN: Well, it is very frustrating, because it is key to the sustainment of is. That is where they are able to sell oil to Turkey.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: And why would Turkey cooperate with ISIS? Just to make the money?

COFFMAN: Well, it is so complex, this region in terms of where people cooperate, and where the countries don't cooperate with us on the war on ISIS, but the president is certainly right in that pressing them. I think that the president needs to do more. We need to knock out the toil infrastructure that is within ISIS-controlled territory.

BLITZER: And General Dunford and Secretary Carter said that they are going to diminish their oil production.

COFFMAN: But we can do more than just diminish. Their view is that we need to not destroy it for the post-ISIS period, but I disagree. I served in the First Gulf War, and Saddam Hussein did that.

BLITZER: And it was a disaster for years and years, and it is still a disaster to some magnitude.

COFFMAN: Well, they don't have that magnitude of oil wells in the ISIS-controlled area, but it is something that needs, if not considered for economic reasons. There are three sources of revenue for ISIS, one from contributions of abroad, two is their ability to sell oil, and three is their taxing of the economic activity within the controlled territory to support them. We can have a dramatic impact on the economy, and the ability to govern.

[13:35:30] BLITZER: But in the end, when you hear General Dunford say that he may ask the president for authorization deployment of the combat troops on the ground in Syria as well, and are you with him on that? COFFMAN: Well, I don't support the notion of conventional troops on

the ground, but as a former combat operator, I would support taking it out. And also, going forward with those indigenous persons on the ground who have sight of it and they can exact damage.

BLITZER: I know a lot of members of Congress, Democrats and Republicans, want to see us supply weapons directly to the Kurds who are fighting with the U.S. and not go through the central government in Baghdad. Is there progress there on that front? I don't know where you stand on it, but I know the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee, Max Thornberry, wants the arms to go directly to the Kurds.

COFFMAN: Well, we're pretty much there. There is a customs process that we are going through with the Baghdad government. But we are able to, according to the briefing today, to give the arms directly to the Kurds who have had a tremendous impact in terms of moving ISIS back, but I think that we need to verify that, that it is occurring.

BLITZER: And the Kurds, you know, they are using old weapons, and feel frustrated because the good stuff stays in Baghdad and they get the bad stuff.

COFFMAN: When you go through the Baghdad government, and we were doing that, giving it to the Shia-dominated Baghdad government who were reluctant to give anything to the Kurds as you mentioned. That was occurring. That is not, according to the briefing today, said that's changed and they will expeditiously get the right equipment to the Kurds.

BLITZER: Congressman Coffman, thanks so much for coming in.

COFFMAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: And let's see if that works out, if the Kurds start to get the good stuff, as we were calling it.

Appreciate it very much.

COFFMAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: We will monitor.

Coming up, the race for the White House, the mayor of New York during the 9/11 attacks now weighing in on Donald Trump's claim of thousands and thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating the World Trade Center falling. Mayor Rudy Giuliani is speaking out, telling CNN what he remembers from those very, very bitter days.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:42:22] BLITZER: It is a story that Donald Trump is sticking to. He insists thousands of Muslim Americans in New Jersey celebrating in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. He has not provided evidence to back up the claim that there were thousands of people involved, though there were news reports at some time of some Muslims celebrating in New Jersey. On CNN's "New Day," the former New York City Major Rudy Giuliani

called Trump's claims an exaggeration. Giuliani said the police department did set up a special unit to watch out for violence against Muslims.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUDY GIULIANI, (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: And we kept tracking it for about three or four weeks, and we had some attacks and we did have some celebrating, and that is true. We had pockets of celebration, some in Queens, and some in Brooklyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN CO-ANCHOR, NEW DAY: How many people?

GIULIANI: 10, 12, 30, 40.

CAMEROTA: And those were not just rumors. Those weren't just reports. You went out to check it out.

GIULIANI: No, no, no, no. They were -- we had a situation in which a candy store owned by a Muslim family was celebrating that day right near a housing development, and the kids of the housing development came in and beat them up. Those facts were corroborated to be true. They were celebrating the towers had come down, and some of the kids in the housing development got upset about it, and they came in and did a pretty good job of beating them up.

CAMEROTA: A handful of isolated incidents you are saying?

GIULIANI: Yes. I was proud of that, because we expected a lot of it. Bernie Kerik was the police commissioner back then. We expect -- because the anger was so great, we expected a lot of irrational acts of violence against people who appeared to Islamic or Muslim.

CAMEROTA: Right. So you expected violence against Muslims, and not to be able to celebrate?

GIULIANI: Right. We had very, very little. And we had some language, some yelling and screaming. I can't give you a count of the number of acts of violence --

CAMEROTA: OK, but you're --

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: -- but nothing really serious. And we did have some reports of people celebrating that day while the towers were coming down.

CAMEROTA: But if there had been thousands of people --

GIULIANI: I would have known it for sure.

CAMEROTA: You would have known it.

Yes, so Donald Trump is therefore not telling the truth? GIULIANI: Well, I think what he is doing is to exaggerating. And so

people were celebrating, you are right about that.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: But a handful of people?

GIULIANI: I did not see any evidence thousands, nor have I seen it since then, of thousands of people.

CAMEROTA: Why do you seem to be hedging? Why aren't you saying, no, that it didn't happen?

GIULIANI: Because I don't know if it didn't happen.

CAMEROTA: But you would have know if thousands of people --

GIULIANI: No, I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have known if it happened in some part of New Jersey. I think --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: You don't think that would have come through your office that thousands of extremists were celebrating, you don't think --

(CROSSTALK)

[13:45:07] GIULIANI: I think that I would have. I think I would have. But I don't think that it happened. He keeps saying it did. I don't want to say that he is not telling the truth about it.

CAMEROTA: Why not?

GIULIANI: Because let him do it, let him explain it to people, and let him show the evidence of it. If thousands of people were demonstrating, and he saw it on television, there has to be some tape of it somewhere. If it shows up, it will corroborate him, and if doesn't show up, it will make him look really bad.

CAMEROTA: Why is Donald Trump allowed to say things that, if you had said that while you were running for president, what would have happened?

(LAUGHTER)

GIULIANI: Well, I would have been thrown out of the race. He is judge by a different standard. Maybe it is because of his background on "The Apprentice" and an entertainer and the fact that he's been a big personality. He almost like speaks in headline, and then gets your attention, and then, a lot of the points that he makes are substantive, but the headline turns out to be exaggerated

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Giuliani also said that Trump's headline-making comments are helping other Republican candidates get more media attention than they would otherwise.

Just ahead, more on the race for the White House. Donald Trump with kind words for Senator Ted Cruz, but that so-called "bromance" may be over soon. Trump predicts Cruz will start attacking him. Our panel will discuss how the Republican race for the White House is shaping up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:51:05] BLITZER: We're just two weeks away from the next Republican presidential debate. Two months away from the Iowa caucuses. Donald Trump's dominance in the polls so far have pundits scratching their heads. He's still on top nationally and in key battleground states. An article on our CNN Politics web site poses the question, could Trump win the GOP nomination? Senator Ted Cruz, who is gaining on Trump in the polls, doesn't think so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't believe Donald Trump is going to be our nominee. I don't believe he's going to be our president. And I think the men and women in this room have something powerful to say about it. One of the reasons I love the state of Iowa, because in Iowa, you all take politics seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our CNN political commentators, Democratic strategist, Donna Brazil; and conservative writer, Amanda Carpenter.

Amanda, let me start with you.

You're a former communications director for Senator Cruz. Ted Cruz is being pretty blunt. Is that bromance between Cruz and Trump sort of ending?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: These comments are fairly benign. I have seen personally what he's saying on the stump is there's a big difference between the people who view politics as entertainment in the hard core grass roots organizers who have been so horrified by what's happened during the Obama administration when it comes to the economy and who will walk through glass to go for a proven conservative like Ted Cruz on a cold primary night in Iowa in February.

BLITZER: Trump is predicting that these other Republicans, including Cruz, are eventually going to start hitting him a little harder. Listen to his remarks last night in Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Rubio has to hit me. There's only one way you get to the top and it's it all through Trump. Let's face it. They have to. They have to. Even I think Cruz is going to have to hit me because he's a nice guy. He's been so supportive. Everything I've said, he's supported. Every single thing I said. And he's been so supportive. But at some point, he's going to have to hit me right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Cruz and Rubio have been hitting each other, but you think they are increasingly going to hit Trump?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Donald Trump is on top for one reason. He knows the audience and played very well with that conservative audience. Two months from now, the voters in Iowa are going to caucus, and can Donald Trump get people to caucus for him? That's the big question. You don't think so. We'll see in a couple months.

This has been a very entertaining phase. Donald Trump has a lot of support out there. We know that. But at the end of the day, it's all about delegates.

BLITZER: Our CNN political report, Steven Collinson, has an article on CNN.com. Let me read a couple sentences from the article. "Controversies and outraged that things that would topple ordinary political candidates leave Trump without a scratch. In fact, the Republican front runner seems to be deliberately stoking the outrage among his supporters that sustains his campaign."

The question is, though, can he go the distance? Will he be the Republican nominee?

CARPENTER: He thrives on controversy. That's why you saw him begging them to punch at him so he can engage on the personal attacks. And when he doesn't have the oxygen feeding his fire, that's when he goes away. He kind of fades away to the sidelines because he doesn't have anything substantive to ay.

BRAZILE: There's no substance. That's the thing. There's no policy, no substance. The last time we heard some substance was about the so- called wall. We haven't heard much since the wall. We hear Donald Trump ready to fight, but we don't hear Donald Trump ready to propose how to fix things other than to call people nasty names.

BLITZER: Quickly, Hillary Clinton, she's the Democratic presidential front runner. She had an event last night. All the Democratic women Senators, with one exception, stood alongside her and endorsed her. Elizabeth Warren, of Massachusetts, was absent, missing in action. Why wasn't she there?

[13:55:18] BRAZILE: I don't know. But I can tell you this much, the fact she has the support of 13, I'm not focusing on the one person who is not there. I think people should understand that Hillary Clinton has broad support within the Democratic Party. They are her colleagues. They know her. Elizabeth Warren signed a letter for her to run. Elizabeth Warren is not running. Senator Warren will have her day and we welcome that.

BLITZER: We'll leave it on that note. We'll see what Elizabeth Warren winds up doing.

BRAZILE: She's a great lady.

BLITZER: Guys, thanks very much.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

For our international views, AMANPOUR is next.

For our viewers here in North America, NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin will start right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:10] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.