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San Bernardino Mass Shooting; Race for 2016; Democrats Launch New Gun Control Debate, Republicans Say 'No' to New Gun Legislation. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 04, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm live in San Bernardino, California.

A lot of disconnects and unknowns. Those words from a lawyer representing the family of the San Bernardino shooters. That same attorney questioning key facts about that day. CNN's Chris Cuomo is here. He talked with those lawyers and what did they tell you?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Well, the interview was surprising to me. They don't represent the shooters, obviously, they're dead, but they don't represent their interests as well. They say that the family is in shock. They say the family didn't know. We don't have any reason to disbelieve that from the investigators at this point. But they go farther. They question whether or not this is terrorism. They question whether or not this even happened the way we think it happened. Listen to why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Where do you go with this in terms of how they explained how he went from someone they knew and loved to somebody who could do something so monstrous?

DAVID S. CHESLEY, FAMILY'S ATTORNEY: There's - there's a lot of disconnects and there's a lot of unknowns and there's a lot of things that quite frankly don't add up or seem implausible. I - I don't - she - she was never involved in shooting. She's probably about 90 pounds, so it's - it's unlikely she could even carry a weapon or wear some type of a vest or - or do any of this. Where the couple was found, from what I understand, is that they were handcuffed, lying face down in this truck shot up. There - there's a lot of things that just don't make sense. You know, no one has ever seen Syed with any of the things that they - I mean, with some of the things they found on the scene, they haven't seen him with them.

CUOMO: Like what?

CHESLEY: The - the pipe bombs, for example. He - he - no one had ever seen him use or have anything like that. And it just doesn't make sense for - for these two to be able to act like some kind of Bonnie and Clyde or something. It - it's just ridiculous. It doesn't add up.

CUOMO: It doesn't add up.

CHESLEY: They don't have the military skills to carry out something like this, really, frankly.

CUOMO: Well, authorities go back and forth on whether or not this show's sophistication or lack of sophistication in terms of how it was carried out. But are you saying that you're not sure that they did this?

CHESLEY: Um, I'm just - I'm just telling you straight out that it doesn't - it doesn't make sense. It looks like - if - if somebody had military training or something, yes, but there was none of that. And - and this person was not aggressive. We sat with the FBI for three hours and they tried to identify some characteristics or some affiliations that he might have had that could have led him to act in this way and they couldn't find anything. They were totally stumped, totally frustrated. You know, in the media some have said that it may be work related, like a - like he was disgruntled in some way. But really everyone is clueless because there's nothing that would characterize him to act in - in this manner.

CUOMO: But to be clear, does the family have any doubts as to whether or not this was him and his wife who did it? Because the authorities have none, as you know.

MOHAMMAD ABUERSHAID, FAMILY'S ATTORNEY: I think the family has come to terms with the situation as the facts have been coming out and they've been very accepting of it. They send their apologies and their wishes and their prayers to everybody who lost their lives and they have let that - they've let that be known already. So I think the family has been accepting of everything that has come out through the media, through the police reports and they're very remorseful and they're very sad. They - they lost two family members of their own as well.

CUOMO: I just want to make sure that I'm hearing the same thing from you, counselor -

CHESLEY: Sure. Sure.

CUOMO: Because it seems like you're saying it doesn't make sense. She might not have done this.

CHESLEY: I'm just telling you, as an attorney, I don't speak for the family and their views and they're not - they're not deniers in any way. They're not - they're not actually affiliated with this in any way. They were really surprised to hear about these events. They were shocked. When they started to hear about them, they were worried for the safety of Syed. They thought that he might have been getting attacked. They were - they were completely shocked when they found out about it. So they're not denying anything. I'm just telling you from an attorney's perspective and the cases I've had, it - the facts don't - don't make sense. That's all I would say.

CUOMO: That's the part I don't get. I know that you're not here to plead the case for the people who did the killing, I hope.

CHESLEY: Yes. I'm frustrated - yes, I'm frustrated about it.

CUOMO: But -

ABUERSHAID: I think what David is trying to say is that he -

CUOMO: Right. But you know the officers say they took fire from this SUV. The people in the SUV were him and her. That's kind of the end of the analysis of possibilities, right?

ABUERSHAID: Well, Chris, as you know, as an attorney yourself, you do also understand that we have to wait for everything to come in. Not just bits and parts of the factual basis. Wait for the whole -

CUOMO: What could come in?

ABUERSHAID: (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: Give me a possibility. What could come in (INAUDIBLE)?

ABUERSHAID: There's not - I don't know what could come in, but there's more information that we still haven't received yet. You guys haven't received everything yet. Nobody has.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It's just - it just strikes me as kind of strange. Really, they - like especially the younger attorney who said that it might not be them? Is that what he was saying?

CUOMO: I think that you have to chalk this up to some lawyering. There is a lot of unknown. The investigators tell us as well, they're telling us to go slow, ruling out workplace as an incendiary here as well. I know that's frustrating to people, but that's what investigators say. So a little bit of it is lawyering. We don't know all the facts.

[09:35:13] The investigators believe more may have been involved. They do not believe fewer may have been involved. The idea of the woman being handcuffed is simply irrelevant. She was certainly in the car. They were taking fire from the officers they were giving it to. That's what started it. That's beyond fact.

I think what matters most is, move past the lawyering to the family. They say they didn't know. The investigators haven't given us any indication to question that. They're in an impossible situation if what they're saying is true, that they didn't know, because it's going to be so hard for so many to accept that.

COSTELLO: So does - do these lawyers represent Farook or his wife or both?

CUOMO: No. They represent the family of Farook.

COSTELLO: Gotcha.

CUOMO: And now people are suspicious of that. Why did they lawyer up? COSTELLO: Right.

CUOMO: Well, because they need to. Because they're dealing with a federal investigation and you want to make sure that your rights are secured as well. I do not think that should be seen by anybody as an admission of anything.

COSTELLO: All right, Chris Cuomo, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump tops his Republican rivals yet again. New polls show a commanding lead. Can anything stop the Trump momentum?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:42] COSTELLO: All right, let's talk politics now. Donald Trump's dominance showing no sign of slowing down. A new CNN poll showing Trump firmly in first place with a 20 point lead over his closest rival. Ted Cruz. Ben Carson, Marco Rubio and Chris Christie round out the top five. Jeb Bush and Carly Fiorina aren't doing so well. They're tied for sixth place. And in a speech to the Republican Jewish Coalition, Trump reiterated his belief that he will win the presidency, while criticizing lawmakers he says have failed voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We know where the Democrats are coming from, but these Republican politicians, they go to Washington and they're going to do this and they're going to do budgets and then they become mainstream. They vote on Obamacare. Yes, I vote. They don't want to leave. They lose all of their courage. I want to use a nice word, because otherwise I get reported for foul language. They lose - they lose all of their courage and they've let us down. That won't happen with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about this. Errol Louis is CNN political commentator and political anchor for New York 1, and Cheri Jacobus is a Republican strategist.

Welcome to both of you.

CHERI JACOBUS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being with me.

Errol, earlier this summer we said it's too early, don't read too much into these polls, but now the Iowa caucuses are less than two months away. Is this a realistic portrait of the state of the race?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, as they always tell us, Carol, it's a snapshot of what it is taking a snapshot of, in this case, a national sampling mostly of Republican voters. Of course the primary process is a state by state contest and those numbers look considerably different. But you're absolutely right I think to point to both the very large lead that Donald Trump has, as well as some of the reasons, which your clip I think really sort of perfectly nailed, is this notion that Republican voters feel like they've been let down. That the Tea Party made lots and lots of promises that have not come true.

I think where they may bump into a reality problem is - the fact is, it's not simply a matter of courage, it's really a matter of a system that has a lot of checks and balances, a lot of different levels of government, a lot of different court rulings and, of course, there are, in fact, a lot of Democrats there, including that guy who works out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. So that there has to be some negotiation, some give and take. Whether or not a President Trump can do that, well, that remains to be seen, of course.

COSTELLO: Well, interestingly enough, Cheri Jacobus, Robert Gates, the former secretary of defense under Presidents Bush and Obama, he wrote an op-ed for "The Washington Post" and he says, "we need a president who understands there are three branches of government. Coalition building is important." He ended his op-ed with this. "Our new leader should appeal to the better angels of our nature." He was quoting Abraham Lincoln. And you got to believe he was talking about Donald Trump.

JACOBUS: Yes, I agree with that. And I agree with just about everything that Errol said as well. Look, the Trump rise is not - he's not Teflon. He's not magical. He's not hypnotizing people. There are a number of things at play. First of all, he came into a very large field. I think it's clear the field needs to narrow. We now have a clear top four and there seems to be a tie for second, third and fourth place. I think the lower tier people need to stop their vanity campaigns and drop out.

But Trump came in with upwards of about $50 million worth of free media. That was an estimate by Nate Silver (ph) this summer. I think it's safe to say by now it is $100 million. We have many right wing media figures supporting him. And I think that, you know, many of these people know that a Trump candidacy, a Trump nomination means a Hillary in the White House and that means selling a lot of anti- Hillary books. Yes, I said that out loud. I'm sure I'll get flak from that. But many of these people made their careers and their fortunes with a Clinton in the White House. They'd like that again.

There has been no concerted sustained effort to go against Trump. If you do this in Iowa, if you do this in New Hampshire, he disappears. But this has not happened. I think people are just -- don't quite know what to do about him, but he is a man who is not really a Republican. He's changed parties five different times. He's bringing in new people to this effort that will not vote Republican if he is not the Republican nominee.

[09:44:53] So there's a lot of things going on here. The free media, the wall-to-wall coverage of his rallies that are substance free but nary a mention of the fact that less than two weeks ago he tweeted racist information from a neo-Nazi white supremacist site. That tweet is still up today getting retweets and likes. The fact that he tried to trick 100 black clergy into endorsing him, thinking they were stupid. They caught on. It didn't work. These are the things that should be discussed. Many people don't understand this is going on. But again, if the field narrows, if there is a sustained effort to run against him, people should not be afraid that his friends in the right-wing media are going to support him forever. But these numbers will change -

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: (inaudible) pushback. Cheri has gotten on her soapbox this morning. I enjoyed it though, thank you. Look Errol, let's talk about those lower tier candidates, because according to this poll, the lower tier candidates are Jeb Bush and John Kasich, two candidates who are pushing back against Donald Trump.

LOUIS: Well, that's right. Look. There are a lot of people - I'd throw Chris Christie in there as well. There are -- there is absolutely no reason. Cheri is right. If there is going to be an anti-Trump candidate who emerges as somebody who is going to really take him on and says let's make this a race between what Trump represents and what I represent, there are any number of people who can plausibly lay claim to that title. And we won't know, I mean, until - I'd say New Hampshire at the earliest, who that person might be. So, you know, mid-February I think we'll have a sense of that.

COSTELLO: All right. Errol Louis, Cheri Jacobus, thanks so much for being with me this morning.

JACOBUS: Thank you.

LOUIS: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM - you're welcome. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the Senate might have just shot it down, but one man is not giving up his fight to enforce stricter gun control. After a break, Alison Parker's father joins me with the latest on his mission to evoke change in Washington.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:08] COSTELLO: The arsenal the killers in San Bernardino had is mind-blowing. On them, two assault rifles, two handguns, 1600-plus rounds of ammunition and then there was what was found inside their home: 4600 more rounds, 12 bombs, hundreds of bomb-making tools. President Obama saying this can't become a new normal for Americans. For years he's called for stricter gun control measures. Just yesterday Senate Republicans saying, no, once again to new gun control legislation.

Someone all too familiar with this is Andy Parker. His daughter Alison, alongside her cameraman Adam Ward, were killed on live television back in August. Immediately after Alison's death, Mr. Parker vowed to do whatever it took to end gun violence. That mission leading straight to the steps of the Capitol.

Andy Parker joins me now live from Washington. Good morning, sir. ANDY PARKER, ALISON PARKER'S FATHER: Good morning, Carol. I wish we were seeing each, again, under happier circumstances. But perhaps one day we will.

COSTELLO: I hope so. You've been on a mission ever since your daughter's death. Has there been any progress, in your mind?

PARKER: Carol, I think we have moved the needle. I think if you look at the presidential debates, the Democratic presidential debates for the first time ever, it's in the conversation. Gun-sense legislation is -- and commonsense gun legislation is in the conversation, and that's never happened before. I think with each one of these tragic events, it has an exponential effect and I think it's affecting more and more people and groups that I'm working with, like Every Town for Gun Safety and Moms Demand Action, the numbers are swelling from a grassroots standpoint. So, yes, I think we are seeing progress and I think the tide is turning.

COSTELLO: I think for the tide to really turn, though, you have to establish some sort of a relationship with gun rights advocates. Have you been able to do that?

PARKER: Actually, we have. We -- we met -- there were a group of commonsense and responsible gun owners that we met with a couple of weeks ago in Washington at the Every Town headquarters. These guys own guns. They also said, you know, we've had enough of this. This is craziness. And I think most of the NRA membership -- I don't think, I know that most of the NRA membership and the majority of responsible gun owners want to close gun show loopholes and they want universal background checks. That's the low-hanging fruit. We know there's a mental illness problem in this country. We're not the only country that has mental illness, but we have the market cornered on these people, dangerous people being able to have access to weapons. And what the Senate did yesterday is appalling to me.

COSTELLO: "The New York Daily News" had a headline the day after this terrible shooting in San Bernardino. And it said -- in essence it said, you know, prayer isn't enough. God won't make this stop happening. A lot of -- a lot of gun rights advocates took offense to that. What do you think?

PARKER: Well, I think that's -- unfortunately, it's become a code word for sanctimonious politicians. It's -- our thoughts and prayers are with you, and they feel like that that's enough to get by. That's the code word for, we're not going to do anything. You know, thoughts and prayers are certainly appreciated, but we want to see action.

[09:54:56] And when you have guys like Bob Goodlatte, who was the Congressman where Alison lived, that has 100 gun legislative bills sitting at his desk that he will not consider for a hearing, when you have Mike McCaul who is supposed to be looking after us as the chairman of the House Committee to -- the Homeland House -- the Homeland Security Committee, and you look at what they do and they're obstructionists, you know, I've called them cowards before. I now go so far as to say they're acting in a treasonist fashion, frankly.

COSTELLO: Treasonist fashion?

PARKER: Yes. When you have murder going on the way we have it and when you have the ability to affect gun legislation, sensible gun legislation, at least hearing it, you know, holding hearings, and when the gun lobby is- you know, is giving these guys money to preempt that, yes, I think you're aiding and abetting terrorists, which in my mind is treasonist.

COSTELLO: Andy Parker, thanks for joining me this morning.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)