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FBI Confirms San Bernardino Shooting ISIS-Linked Terrorism; Officer Describes Scene of San Bernardino Mass Shooting. Aired 2:30-2p ET
Aired December 04, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] DAVID BOWDICH, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI, LOS ANGELES OFFICE: That's where we're going. That takes time. That's not a three-day process.
Yes, ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: I was told they were in a nearby trash can found by investigators.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: We don't know. That's what we hope to build is a working theory and then ultimately some sort of a design of what we believe they were going to do, but again, day three, we just don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: December 7th is Monday (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: Pardon me?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: We don't know yet.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: It's certainly a possibility, but we don't know yet.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: We are still exploiting the data. I have not seen it yet. We are still exploiting that and that will take time. I truly believe that's going to be the potential golden nuggets, but we don't know yet.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: December 7th is Monday. Do you have any information that there may have been something planned for that particular day and for some reason it got moved up?
BOWDICH: December 7th, you said?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yeah.
BOWDICH: Yes, I don't know any reason it was on that day. Remember, there was a Christmas party that took place inside that room. So you had a lot of people. You had a lot of management. You had a lot of employees in that room at that point.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: He was not under active surveillance. I'm not aware and do not believe there was any type to have an investigation pending on him.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did his name come up? I'm thinking similar to the Boston bombing.
BOWDICH: Yes, and I don't have any information that indicates that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you concerned about the press being in the apartment today? There was a man there who took the landlord away and said he didn't have permission to let people into the apartment. The apartment was re-boarded up. Any concerns about that being entered?
BOWDICH: You're going to have to repeat that. I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Any concerns about the press entering the town home even though you completed your investigation?
BOWDICH: Once we turn that location back over to the occupants of that residence or once we board it up, anyone who goes in at that point has nothing to do with us.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You say this is an act of terrorism. Does this mean this is the first time, if you conclude that it's is, this is the first time is attacked America?
BOWDICH: I think you're taking a leap. We're not there. What I'm confirming is we are currently investigating this case as an act of terrorism.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: I'm sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Were they in telephonic communications with the U.S. or elsewhere?
BOWDICH: We know they were in conversations with people here in the U.S. I'm not aware of the overseas connections yet. We're working with foreign partners on that.
(CROSSTALK)
BOWDICH: I can only hear one at a time, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The family and their lawyers, what do you have to say to that?
BOWDICH: The question, the veracity of -- not unusual that they would.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: That's their official website.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BOWDICH: I'm not surprised. I have not heard of that, but I'm not surprised if they would claim. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It only helps them to be able to attach themselves to an act like this. I don't know the answer.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did someone give them the rifles?
BOWDICH: There's a person -- we don't know -- let me go back on that one. There's some differentiations there. There is a person that we know of their location who purchased those weapons, but I'm going o to let had ATF answer the questions on the guns because that's what they are here to do.
BOWDICH: The person is not under arrest at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So they are in custody?
BOWDICH: They are not under arrest at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why do you think they stopped shooting?
BOWDICH: I don't know the answer.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The Facebook post, did they pledge allegiance to ISIS or al Baghdadi? Any other people connected specifically with any known terrorism posts?
BOWDICH: I'm aware of the Facebook post you're mentioning. I saw the same thing you did. We don't know what's there yet. We're still continuing to look into that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mark Zuckerberg confirms that post had been made and there it has been made as the attack was starting.
BOWDICH: I know it was in a general time line and, yes, there was a pledge of allegiance.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The dynamic of the marriage, there's a lot of curiosity there. And some people are saying that perhaps the wife may have influenced him. Do you have any insight?
[14:35:13] BOWDICH: I have been asked that and I don't know the answer whether she influenced him or not. Being a husband myself, we're all influenced to an extent, but I don't know the answer.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Does that influence your belief that this was an act of terrorism after learning more about her?
BOWDICH: We're investigating it as an act of terrorism for good reason.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Had the FBI know of her prior to this?
BOWDICH: Pardon me?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Had the FBI know of her -- aware of her before? Was she under investigation prior to this?
BOWDICH: We did not have her under investigation previously.
I'm going to take three more questions and then end it.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Near the center or near the compound?
BOWDICH: I believe they were found near the townhouse.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is it true they were flying under the radar?
BOWDICH: Pardon me?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Were you concerned they were flying under the radar? That you didn't know they were active?
BOWDICH: Of course, I'm concerned. Any one of us would love to have stopped this act. When you go into a crime scene like that, it's one of the most heinous things you will ever see.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No awareness that you weren't tracking them on your radar?
BOWDICH: Of course, I'm concerned. We didn't know. There's nothing we have seen yet that would have triggered us to know.
(CROSSTALK)
BOWDICH: Yes, ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you believe in the existence of a cell?
BOWDICH: Pardon me?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you believe in the existence of the cell?
BOWDICH: We don't know. What I can tell you is we are not aware of any further threats in the U.S. at this time.
And I want to go back to your point, ma'am. You said the government spends a lot of money on surveillance. We are also -- the FBI is also a federal law enforcement agency that is bound by federal law so we don't do wide-sweeping massive surveillance without legal process.
Last question.
Yes, ma'am
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Now listening to this, that this is, indeed, an act of terror. What in practical terms does that mean for them?
BOWDICH: So what I would say, first of all, I think this community, I'm going to leave that to the chief and sheriff to talk about. They are the true protectors of this community.
I would say to this community, you have been incredibly resilient. We are with you. We stand by you. We are focused. The FBI's number one mandate is to protect the homeland from attack. We will absolutely engage whenever we see potential threats.
As the director has said, we have a number of terrorism investigations across the country currently that are going on. That does include extensive surveillance.
So what I would tell the community, to answer your question completely, I would tell them continue to do what you do. If you see things that are concerning, push them up to local law enforcement immediately. If they rise to a certain level or if you want to push it to both the FBI and local law enforcement, feel free to do that. These are your protectors.
(CROSSTALK)
BOWDICH: But do as you do normally. Go about your day. Do not let this cause mass hysteria. We're not there. We're not there at all. We have a long-term very complex investigation that we have to complete. That's going to take time and a lot of energy and a lot of hours and a lot of agency expertise. But I assure the -- I assure the American public we will do everything in our power within the law to get that done.
Thank you for your time.
Next, I'd like to introduce Sheriff John McMahon.
JOHN MCMAHON, SHERIFF, SAN BERNARDINO SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Very good questions. That's why we're here today. The primary, my primary responsibility and the primary responsibility of the law enforcement leaders you see behind me is to ensure the safety of the public that we serve. You have already heard there's apparently evidence to suggest that there's a terrorist connection to this event. We have no known credible threats to the communities that we serve. I would ask that the community remain vigilant. Don't hesitate to report any suspicious activity to the local law enforcement. We have added additional resources as has my partners from law enforcement that stand behind me to ensure that we have the staff necessary to investigate and to protect the communities that we serve. We have nothing to suggest there's anything additional associated with this event, but we remain partnered up with the law enforcement from the FBI, ATF, Homeland Security, and if any threats come about that appear to be credible or not, we will fully investigate those to help ensure that it the public that we serve is absolutely safe. I will echo what David Bowdich suggested, that this is a team effort. We all have to work together as a team to address situations of this magnitude. We remain committed to working with the FBI, our local partners, as well as our federal partners to ensure that the resources that are need are applied to make sure we investigate everything possible and keep the citizens that we serve safe.
Thank you.
[14:40:28] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, Sheriff, are you concerned there was no credible threat and then this occurred and now we're back to an environment with no known credible threat and could San Bernardino or any other town in the country be facing the same kind of thing happening an hour from now?
MCMAHON: Certainly, that's the possibility. But crimes across our county and across our state often times occur without any notice. You saw how the men and women of this law enforcement agency as well as the partners that we work with in our region performed two days ago. Considering how they perform, and address the issue, I truly believe that we are prepared to deal with whatever threat or incident occurs. Law enforcement is staffed up, as I suggested. Our local law enforcement leaders remain in constant contact with one another. And as I suggested, my top priority as well as those that stand behind me is the safety of the public that we serve.
Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so many questions left unanswered. You heard first from the San Bernardino police chief, then from FBI and then the sheriff.
Let me go back to a couple points that the FBI made. Number one, making it clear yesterday there was sort of this maybe workplace violence. Not mincing any words, saying based upon mounting evidence, they are investigating this murderous attack in San Bernardino as an act of terrorism. Mentioned two cell phones that had been found in a nearby trash can. They had been crushed so they are gathering data hoping that will lead to the answer of why. And also mentioning some sort of phone communication of the murderous couple and another individual that the FBI has been investigating.
I have Paul Cruickshank. He has stayed with me here, CNN terrorism analyst.
Paul, a lot of the questions, too, being over this Facebook post. Apparently this wife mid-attack pledging her allegiance to the leader of ISIS. So the questions were was she in direct communication with ISIS or was she self-radicalized. Do you think ISIS would make it clear in the acknowledgment they would take credit for it if they had been directing her?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think if there was something more than just inspiration, I think ISIS would claim that. So far they do not appear to be claiming that. We have had a statement put out by a news agency supportive of link to is, a lot of their content is provided. And this news agency saying that these were two supporters of the Islamic State, not to fighters of the Islamic State. They have described the Paris attack as fighters of the Islamic State. So, so far, these media organizations linked to ISIS not going the full way and saying we did this all the way. We had had knowledge of it before. The information they are putting out is just tracking the media reporting and media first reported about this pledge of allegiance. So that's where we are in terms of the terrorist group's comment on this. They are going to be investigating all of this. There are concerns that could be a wider cell here. But as the FBI representative was just saying, they don't have evidence right now of any credible, immediate threat. That suggests that the immediate danger has gone away for the moment, they hope.
[14:44:22] BALDWIN: They hope.
Paul Cruickshank, thank you so much.
Quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We're back with special live coverage here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
We just heard breaking now from the FBI that they are based on mounting evidence they are investigating this murderous attack as an act of terrorism. Investigators are closer to uncovering a possible motive in the shooting rampage there in that center. Three officials close to the investigation say they believe the female attacker here, the wife, posted on Facebook pledging allegiance to the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, while this massacre was unfolding. She and her husband killed 14 people and wounded 21 others by opening fire at this Inland Regional Center, a place that helps folks with special needs in this community. There were also explosive devices found inside that building and a detonator in their getaway car. They both were shot and killed in a massive police shootout hours later. Investigators are also telling CNN, quote, "This is looking more and more like self-radicalization."
With that, Jeffrey Simon, with me, a terror expert, the author of "Lone Wolf Terrorism, Understanding the Growing Threat."
Jeffrey, you were just listening to the FBI giving that briefing a moment ago. So it seems like from how they are answering certain questions perhaps not directed by ISIS but ISIS inspired. It would be the first deadly ISIS-inspired attack on U.S. soil.
[14:50:23] JEFFREY SIMON, TERROR EXPERT & AUTHOR: Right. We have had a lot of case cans where individuals have indicated a sympathy with ISIS or posted various things on Facebook and things along those lines. What separates this is the carnage that was involved. But we have also had individuals who have tried to make the trip over to Syria to join ISIS. If this was ISIS directed, they would have jumped on it and been boasting about it because it would have been the first time they were able to launch an attack in the U.S. But it still adds to the fear element of this global reach of ISIS.
BALDWIN: Questions about who they were in communication with as we heard from the FBI questions about a trip overseas the year before last. What's curious to me is you have the female. It's not only one shooter, it's two. And it's the female here posting what she did on Facebook. Is that not rare?
SIMON: It's not that odd to have the female as a lead terrorist. We have had groups that were led by a female. What is really odd is the choice of the first element of this attack, his co-workers. It seemed with all the ammunition and everything they have with the pipe bombs, they were planning something bigger and something that happened that made them decide this is where they were going to launch the first part and not have it a suicide attack and try something else. If you're going to have all that weaponry, you would have thought a shopping mall. There's a personal grudge or personal elements that the husband had with his co-workers.
BALDWIN: We don't know. That's part of what the FBI and San Bernardino police are trying to figure out.
What more about this -- I think that one of the pieces that I'm curious about too is that you have those -- I was just in Paris directly instructed by is command if you will in Syria. You have these people who appear self-radicalized. I'm left wondering how many others could there be who are buying into this ideology who want to reek havoc in the U.S.
SIMON: The term "radicalization" has become the buzz word in counterterrorism studies, policy circles and so forth. Nobody really has ---
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Is there a better word?
SIMON: No. Nobody really knows yet. It's a way to try to bring some order to this phenomenon, but we don't know, when somebody is talking about doing something or pledging allegiance to a group, what's the trigger point that they act violently. There are plenty of people who say things who don't know those who are radicalized and never going to do a violent act, those who are radicalized, and once something happens, are going to jump into an act of violence.
BALDWIN: I was hearing the words earlier. These "invisible soldiers" that are not on the radar. That's a worrisome thing
Jeff Simon, thank you.
Next, one of the first police officers to arrive there on the scene of the attack describing what he saw, what he heard. His words, "unspeakable carnage" in the moments immediately after this horrific shooting, with one priority he describes, finding the people who carried out that attack. His own words, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:58:06] BALDWIN: One of the first officers to arrive on the scene of the shooting this Wednesday in San Bernardino says he absolutely can't believe what he saw. This one officer called it, quote, "unspeakable carnage." Lieutenant Mike Madden, with the San Bernardino Police Department, said he and three other officers were operating under the assumption that the shooters were still inside as they carefully entered this center, and he said he had trained for events like this, but what he found was, quote, "surreal."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. MIKE MADDEN, SAN BERNARDINO POLICE DEPARTMENT: I'll tell you, it was something -- although we train for it, it's something you're never prepared for. When we got the call -- I oversee dispatch. It's one of my functions and responsibilities with the police department. And I know my dispatchers. I know the tone of their voice. I know the severity of calls as they are going out. And I could hear it in our dispatcher's voice that this was actually happening. This was a real event. And it was the event that, you know, we have an active shooter and we have an active shooting going on in our city. And I was nearby. I was less than a mile away. And I started coming this way. And I realized as I was getting closer that I was one of the very first units there. Myself and Officer Shawn Sandoval (ph) arrived almost simultaneously and, just out of pure luck, because the information was evolving so rapidly, it was out of pure luck I happened to pull into the right location, which was just south of the road that you see here north of us. It was just south of the building where this tragedy took place. As I was looking and seeing all of the activity and trying to assess what was happening, I was informed that there was the location where this was happening. And I was asking for officers to respond as quickly as possible, because we had had every belief at that time we had people still being shot inside of the building. And my goal was to assemble an entry team and enter --
