Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
New Details About the San Bernardino Shooting Suspects; Community Holds Vigils for Shooting Victims; First Responder: The Situation was Surreal; Police Find Smashed Cell Phones Near Crime Scene; Obama, GOP Presidential Candidates Speak Out on California Attack; Doctors Petition Congress to Lift Restrictions on Gun Violence Research; Minute-By-Minute Police Response to California Shooting. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired December 04, 2015 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:19] ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, and thank you for joining us. I am Isha Sesay in Los Angeles where it is 10:00 here on the U.S. West Coast.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I'm John Vause in San Bernardino, California. We'd like to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. You're watching CNN's breaking coverage of that mass shooting at a California conference center and we will begin with new details about the man and the woman who carried out that deadly shooting.
Sources say Syed Rizwan Farook was apparently radicalized and have been touch with a number of people under the investigation by the FBI for international terrorism. Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, killed 14 people at a conference center on Wednesday.
Lieutenant Mike Madden was one of the first to arrive on the scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. MIKE MADDEN, SAN BERNARDINO, CALIFORNIA POLICE: It was unspeakable. The carnage that we were seeing, the number of people who were injured and unfortunately already dead. And the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be safe. We asked -- we got as many people out as quickly as we could.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Investigators say the heavily armed couple fired between 65 and 75 rounds at the conference center. They were killed a few hours later in a shootout with police.
Investigators have also found two pipe bombs and a trove of ammunition at the couple's home not far from here in the city of Redlands.
CNN's justice correspondent Pamela Brown has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We've learned from law enforcement sources that the couple's two cell phones apparently, these cell phones belonging to them, found in a trash bin near one of the crime scenes. These cell phones had been damaged. And investigators believe the couple was trying to hide their tracks and make it impossible for investigators to be able to see what was on their cell phones.
We're told, though, that the FBI is working to retrieve the information on their phones. And also we've learned that the couple's hard drive, belonging to their computer, is nowhere to be found. So there has been a subpoena issued to the big providers to get the contents from their computer. And investigators are hoping whatever is retrieved will shed light on a possible motive.
This case has been somewhat puzzling to investigators. Because as one person said, it doesn't fit neatly into a box. It's unclear if this is in fact terrorism or if it is a work place dispute or a blend of the two.
I will tell you, sources I've spoken with who have analyzed the bombs that were found say that they don't match any extremist recipe. That it appears the shooters didn't follow a specific recipe from "Inspire" magazine which we know is run by al Qaeda or recipes from ISIS. There's a lot of mystery here. We know the FBI has been investigating or I should say interviewing the family members of the shooters and they have been very cooperative, I'm told. And they say that they completely shocked that from their viewpoint this couple did not seem radicalized at all. Certainly still a lot to learn here.
Pamela Brown, CNN, San Bernardino.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: CNN's military analyst Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona is with me right now in San Bernardino.
So, Colonel, when we look at some of the tactics which were used in this attack, some of them are very similar to the tactics which ISIS has used in the past.
LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: And we've seen this kind of tactics in Paris, for example, you know, the use of multiple shooters, combining high explosives with rifle fire. Going in to a target, spraying the target, killing as many people quickly as fast as you can and then being prepared to move out of the area very quickly to another area. We saw sort of a hybrid of that in Paris where some of them stayed in place. Others moved on to other targets. So we're not quite sure what was happening here. I believe they were moving on to another target.
VAUSE: OK. So if we look at -- I guess for want of a better term, what worked for them and what didn't work for them. They essentially sprayed the room, 75 shots, they killed 14 people wounded 20, but then the explosives didn't detonate. FRANCONA: Yes. Well, it shows that they planned. The planning was
fairly well done. And if you look at what they may have been planning to do that was probably well thought out. It was the execution of it that started to fall apart and it started to fall apart fairly quickly and fairly rapidly.
VAUSE: Exactly. Yes, when the police moved in. So we had a situation, though, where it looked as if they've done a lot of planning. They had some training but not a lot of training to carry it out. Because clearly the Paris attack was a lot more effective than this one in terms of ISIS.
FRANCONA: A larger scale.
VAUSE: Yes.
FRANCONA: Here you've got two people operating pretty much independently. And we still don't know yet how much support they had, how much training they had from outside. Did they do this all on their own, all self-training? You know, the AR-15 is not an intuitive weapon. It requires a little bit of training but you can get that off the Internet.
[01:05:04] But these explosives, you don't want to be building these things without some sort of a hand-on experience, someone showing you how to do this. Did they make high explosives? Did they -- someone provide them to them? So there's a whole lot of questions we don't yet have answers to.
VAUSE: And this is one of the reasons why this is so hard to pin down and defining it as actually being terrorism because we have to stress at this point the FBI is not willing to go there.
FRANCONA: Well, because, you know, there's a lot of work place issues here. Remember, they picked a target that dealt with people that he worked with. He knew they were going to be at this off site. So this is a soft target. He came in early. I think he was doing reconnaissance, ingress, (INAUDIBLE), what kind of security was there, how long a police response might be. And he used all that two hours later when he came back and conducted the attack.
VAUSE: And we talked about this before. So the frame of mind when he goes in there, knowing this attack is about to happen, hyped up, ready for a fight, which would explain why there was that disagreement, I guess.
FRANCONA: Whether that was feigned or not, we don't know.
VAUSE: In some way. Right. OK.
FRANCONA: I don't think this was a spur of the moment attack. I think he knew going in there that they were going to come back and attack. The argument may have been feigned but he wanted to get in there, get the lay of the land and see what they were going to have to do, get out, come back two hours later and actually conduct that attack. That part of it was actually well done. VAUSE: OK. There was a fire alarm which was set off.
FRANCONA: Yes.
VAUSE: We don't know by them or by somebody else but obviously adding to the confusion of the moment. A lot of people also are talking about the fact that there was a woman involved in this. And again, you know, I have read, I have heard that at least in the past ISIS, al Qaeda, not very pleased with women being involved in these kinds of attacks.
FRANCONA: I guess if you'd call it core al Qaeda, core ISIS in Iraq and Syria with ISIS we find that not to be the case.
VAUSE: Yes.
FRANCONA: But as you move further out, go into Europe, and now in the United States you find they're willing to -- and we've seen these Islamist groups use women quite effectively before, just it comes to mind where they used a suicide bomber.
VAUSE: And in Palestine they're being (INAUDIBLE) suicide bombers often as well.
FRANCONA: Exactly.
VAUSE: There is also the question of radicalization. Our sources are saying that Farook was radicalized.
FRANCONA: Right.
VAUSE: And then this begs the question, who was leading whom in the radicalization? Was it the wife? Was it the husband? Where do we go with that one?
FRANCONA: Hard to say. We don't know yet. It could have been her. Remember, you know, there are madrazas in Pakistan that deal specifically with women. All funded, you know, by -- they're well funded. So we don't know if it was her. But generally you find that not to be the case.
VAUSE: It's usually the male in the relationship.
FRANCONA: Exactly. And of course the pilgrimage, his pilgrimage in 2013 seems to be the turning point.
VAUSE: Right.
FRANCONA: Because that's a deeply moving experience for any Muslim. He came back much more devout than he went.
VAUSE: OK. Colonel, good to peak with you. Thank you for being with us. Appreciate it.
While investigators search for a motive in that shooting rampage the community is now taking some time to heal. The largest mosque in San Bernardino County held a prayer vigil for victims on Thursday night. Muslim leaders have condemned the massacre and hundreds gathered for a candlelight vigil at a stadium right here in San Bernardino. And Poppy Harlow was there.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The opening words of the prayer read here tonight, John, we are challenged, but we are not hopeless, talking about this community, all of the people that have come together tonight holding candles, listening to beautiful music, trying to reflect on what their community has gone through in just the last two days. It is unfathomable to everyone here. The mayor talking about his phone call with President Obama this morning.
And when you look around, all of these people, young and old, every race and religion represented, they have a different story. They're here all for a different reason but they are here and they stand together. A young woman, Christina, who I spoke with, told me that she lost two friends, two friends murdered yesterday. A third shot in the head but survived. It's amazing one of her friends who was murdered is a father of six. Six children. His name Mike Wertzle. She said she's here for him, for everyone who perished, for everyone who was injured.
Another young man sitting next to me, Gustavo, told me he didn't know anyone who died but he is here because he said he is angry and he said it is hard to find logic in this. Why did this happen? How could this happen. And what has really struck me here tonight are all the children. So many parents have brought their young, young children here tonight.
And I asked one mother of five, why did you bring your children? How do you explain this to them? And she had her 4-year-old sitting next to her. And she said to me, I can't explain it to them, but they watch the news. They see what is happening. I try to give them answers as best I can. But perhaps it's because they saw the worst of humanity play out here yesterday and tonight at this vigil the best of humanity coming together, standing together, being together -- John.
VAUSE: Meanwhile, the coroner has released the names of 14 people who were killed. Among them, 52-year-old Nicholas Thalasinos. He was an employee at the County Environmental Health Department.
[01:10:03] Forty-year-old Robert Adams, husband and the father of a 20-month-old daughter. His family says they were planning their first trip to Disneyland. 45-year-old Shannon Johnson from Los Angeles. Police say of the 14 people killed, 12 were county employees. There were about 80 people at that party when the shooting happened. And inside that scene it was truly horrific.
CNN's Paul Vercammen joins us now live with more on that. Because, Paul, we are now hearing for the first time from the police officer who arrived on the scene, the first one to move into that room.
PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, that was Lieutenant Mike Madden. He described that he mainly, after 24 years, has primarily a desk job. He was headed for lunch when the call went out. And when Madden arrived, when he first stepped inside, he described the smell of gunpowder, the wailing of the injured. Fire alarms going off. And all sorts of sprinklers going off as well.
John, it was absolutely terrifying. Let's listen to it in his words when he got that call for so many casualties at the center behind me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MADDEN: As we made our way around to the east side, it was immediately evident that the reports that we were getting were 100 percent true. There were victims who were clearly -- obviously deceased outside of the conference room. The situation was surreal. It was something that I don't think, again, we prepare for and they try to -- an active shooter, we talk about sensory overload. They just try to throw everything at you to prepare you for dealing with that. What you're seeing, what you're hearing, what you're smelling, and it was all of that and more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERCAMMEN: Madden also said they have secured the scene to the best of his knowledge. They're not sure if the shooters are hiding.
You now have many other people who are attending that party who are afraid to come forward with Madden to be taken out of the building. And he said he had to coax them and explain to them, please, no, we are police officers. We are not dressed this way. This isn't some sort of ruse. And finally when he convinced the first person that they were indeed law enforcement from here in San Bernardino. The flood gate just opened and dozens and dozens filed out of that building amid that scene of the sprinklers going off and the fire alarms and the people wailing and they pulled them out to safety -- John.
VAUSE: Yes, and also, there was that incredible moment caught on video with one police officer reassuring the people in that room, I'll take a bullet for you. Just trying to get the people out to safety. It is impossible to imagine what it must have been like.
But we're also learning, Paul, from authorities that there does seem to be some kind of personal connection to everybody who was in that room and the shooters.
VERCAMMEN: Yes. And you are articulating earlier that they were all employees with the county. This started as a training exercise, and it transisted to a holiday party. And as Madden had described it, it was just filled with a Christmas tree and ornaments and this sort of thing. It had all the feel of that. In the end, the victims, 12 of the dead, also worked for the county. And 18 of the 21 injured worked for the county.
So it's clear that Farook had a connection with many of them. And in fact, he probably worked side by side with a lot of them -- John.
VAUSE: OK. Paul, thank you. Paul Vercammen live for us this hour. We appreciate the update, Paul.
You are watching CNN's breaking news coverage of the shooting here in Southern California. Time for a short break. And much more from here in San Bernardino when we come back.
SESAY: Plus a former FBI agent joins me here in studio to talk about the deadly shooting and why authorities didn't pick up on the gunman even though he was in contact with suspected terrorists.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(SPORTS)
(HEADLINES)
[01:18:01] SESAY: You are watching CNN's breaking coverage of a shooting massacre here in California. I'm Isha Sesay in Los Angeles.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause in San Bernardino, California. Authorities here in San Bernardino believe a mix of workplace grievance and terrorism may have been behind Wednesday's massacre. They say Syed Rizwan Farook was in touch with a number of people under investigation by the FBI for international terrorism.
Officials are also looking into his travels to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. But two government officials say they did not raise any red flags. Meantime, authorities say Farook and his wife were prepared for another attack. They found hundreds of rounds of ammunition in the couple's rented SUV and a dozen pipe bombs in their home.
Well, joining me now is Brian Levin. He is the director at the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism, also a former NYPD cop.
So, Brian, let's just start with the difference in a mass shooting, why a two-person shooting is different in terms of motive to a one- person shooting?
BRIAN LEVIN, CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF HATE AND EXTREMISM: Yes, usually when we have a lone actor there is oftentimes some kind of idiosyncratic bent here. When you have a conspiracy going, then you have to get two people in on an ideology usually or some particular grievance. One thing that's important. Irrespective of the motive, we see a grievance, whether it's ideological or uniquely personal. And that's something that we're going to be looking at with regard to this case as well.
VAUSE: OK. So that then brings us to this hybrid theory that everybody is working in.
LEVIN: Yes.
VAUSE: At the moment. Is it terrorism? Is it a grievance? Is it somehow mixed in together? How would it be mixed in together?
LEVIN: Great question. And it's exactly what I tell law enforcement when I train them. What I told Congress just several weeks ago. Particularly in this splintered sociopolitical landscape we're in. People are a mixture of motives. They might have a uniquely personal anger and hatred but it can be tied and broaden to an ideological one, too, that justifies and validates their frustrations. In a kind of scapegoating.
[01:20:08] So it's not unusual at all. We saw a beheading back in Oklahoma, for instance, in 2014.
VAUSE: Yes.
LEVIN: We also saw an attack in France where a workplace grievance turned into an ideological attack as well.
VAUSE: Yes. People drive by different issues, I guess. We're talking about -- we've been talking about this trip that he made to Saudi Arabia, and also to Pakistan. I find it unusual that officials say that didn't raise any red flags. Why would that be?
LEVIN: Well, as we know in Islam there are five pillars of faith.
VAUSE: Yes.
LEVIN: And one of them, if you can do it at least once in your lifetime.
VAUSE: Hajj. Yes.
LEVIN: To do Hajj to Mecca. So that wouldn't in and of itself be something. With regard to Pakistan, well, that's where his wife is from.
VAUSE: Right.
LEVIN: That being said, there is an extremist footprint impact, to be sure. Interestingly enough, that's more an al Qaeda-based extremism, not so much ISIS.
VAUSE: ISIS doesn't have a reach in Pakistan, well, not much.
LEVIN: Not much, no. Libya, Iraq, Syria, that's where ISIS is big. We're also seeing them as you know in the Sinai.
VAUSE: One thing which I find interesting, very quickly, the amount of ammunition which they stockpiled. That's thousands and thousands of dollars of ammunition. They had a bomb-making lab in their home. How can they keep this secret from everyone around them?
LEVIN: That's surprising to me. You know, my gut feeling, and again as we say, let the law enforcement lead takes you, not speculation.
VAUSE: Right.
LEVIN: But if I had to guess, what's going on here, it seems to me they got radicalized, perhaps self-radicalized or with some peers, but they don't strike me as overly professional.
VAUSE: Right.
LEVIN: They look like they kind of half planned and half executed. This could have been a lot worse and the bombs could have been used in different attacks. It just seems to me if it is ideological.
VAUSE: Yes.
LEVIN: Indirectly influenced by these hierarchical extremists, and not directly. They're using more professional.
VAUSE: OK, Brian, we shall leave it there. Thank you for coming to us here and talking to us about this. We appreciate your insights and your expertise. Thank you.
LEVIN: Thank you so much for having me.
VAUSE: Take care.
We'll have much more from here in San Bernardino in just a few moments. But first let's go back to Isha in Los Angeles.
SESAY: Thank you, John.
Well, for more on the deadly shooting I'm joined by a former FBI special agent, Bobby Chacon.
Bobby, thank you again for being with us. This is all so complicated and there is so much we still don't know. But one of the things that a lot of people are focused on is the fact that it's already been revealed that Farook was in contact with individuals who are being investigated for international terrorism by the FBI. And yet the FBI says Farook and his wife weren't on their radar. Is this a case of them dropping the ball here? I mean, how should we read this?
BOBBY CHACON, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: I don't think so. I think what you have -- what we have to look at and what has to be determined is, number one, he was a U.S. citizen. So the foreign -- the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that allows us to basically surveil electronically U.S. citizens comes into play. So you would have -- we'd have to have some kind of probable cause to go up on devices that he might be operating to find out.
Second of all, you know, when you say these other individuals were the subject of FBI investigations, I think that we have to look at that closely. If they were subjects of the investigation or they just were known as possible overseas targets. So I think that it is a little too early to tell if any red flags were missed. I think that those things have to be run out us because he was a U.S. citizen, born and raised in the U.S., he would have certain rights and we would have to -- the FBI would have to go through certain procedures to surveil him electronically.
And I think the second piece that has to be looked at is who exactly these people were, to what level they were under investigation. If these were just names on a list or if they were actively subjects of an investigation, that's yet to be determined.
SESAY: So we're hearing that a couple of cell phones were found smashed. We're hearing that a computer was found without the hard drive which leads people think that there was an attempt to discard it, hide it.
CHACON: Sure.
SESAY: How difficult will it be to retrieve information from devices that they've attempted to wipe or destroy?
CHACON: You know, we have the best of the best working nearby in our regional computer forensics lab, the RCFL down in Orange County that the FBI set up. It's run by state, local and federal partners. And they have the best computer forensic examiners in the business there, at our regional computer forensic labs. So I think the RCFL will probably hopefully be on the case. I think a lot of state and local agencies in this area also have very, very good computer forensic people. If it's possible at all to obtain any information from those devices they will get it.
SESAY: So let me ask you this, the pipe bombs that were found in the home, those kind of -- those kind of items, those kind of devices, if you will, is it something that you could -- can we honestly say that this man and his wife sat at home, logged onto the Internet and found the instructions to build? Or, again, we're trying to build this picture, did they have help that taught them how to do this?
[01:25:14] CHACON: Yes, I think it's both. I think that unfortunately in this day and age you can actually get on the Internet and see some of these things. I think also they probably did have some help simply because of the volume of these devices that were found. Now the effectiveness of the devices, I don't know. I mean, I looked at the pictures, and some of these devices are very similar to devices that I came across when I was working drug gangs in New York City in the late '80s and early '90s.
So I don't think there's a high level of sophistication with these items. I think they have been around a long time. A single piece of threaded pipe at both ends with caps, that's a very basic device, it's not very sophisticated. Of course the effectiveness of them is unknown. I don't know that these were very effective devices that they built.
SESAY: Bobby, thank you.
CHACON: Thanks.
SESAY: Thanks for the insight.
Well, we're going to go back to John in San Bernardino in just a minute. And we'll hear from a man who shared a cubicle with the gunman for the past three years.
This is CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SESAY: You are watching CNN's breaking coverage of a mass shooting at a conference center here in California. I'm Isha Sesay in Los Angeles. VAUSE: And I'm John Vause in San Bernardino.
[01:30:00] Law enforcement officials say they have recovered two smashed cell phones from a garbage can near the crime scene. And they have also recovered a computer but the hard drive had actually been removed. Sources say the gunman, Syed Rezwan Farook, was apparently radicalized and had been in touch with a number of people under investigation by the FBI for international terrorism.
Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, they killed 14 people at a conference center on Wednesday. They were killed a few hours later in a shootout with police. Investigators say they found 12 pipe bombs and a trove of ammunition at their home. The couple met in 2013 when Farook travelled to Saudi Arabia.
Identifying what motivated this couple has already taken investigators in two directions, globally, in search of any wider terror ties and, locally, to those who knew them and are now speaking out.
We get more on that from CNN's Kyung Lah.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(SIRENS)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just minutes before the killers opened fire on the holiday party, Patrick Baccari left the use the bathroom when the attack started.
PATRICK BACCARI, CONFERENCE ATTENDEE: I thought somebody booby trapped the towel dispenser because I was being pummeled while I was pulling the towels out of the dispenser. I looked in the mirror. I was bleeding.
LAH: He hid in the bathroom while Syed Rezwan Farook and his wife fired off 76 rounds killing 14 people.
Farook and Baccari shared a cubicle for three years at the San Bernardino County Health Department. They talked about cars, Farook's 6-month-old daughter, regular chat between two coworkers.
(on camera): Why do you think he did this?
BACCARI: Well, I think his beliefs were contrary to our American dreams. You think that somebody that's working to the capacity and educated to the level that you are has similar respect and values.
LAH (voice-over): Law enforcement sources tell CNN that Farook was apparently radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI, talking by phone and on social media with more than one person being investigated for terrorism.
But a law enforcement source says the talks were infrequent. The last one was a few months ago, not raising any alarms. No red flags either say U.S. and Saudi goverment officials in 2013 when Farook went to Saudi Arabia. The FBI says the 28-year-old had also traveled to Pakistan.
(SIRENS)
LAH: The couple's landlord, who rented the apartment they would later fill with weapons and bomb-making material, saw no sign this was coming.
DOYLE MILIAN (ph), LANDLORD OF SHOOTERS: It's beyond my comprehension, because he seemed like such a gentle, mild person. You just can't tell a book by its cover.
LAH: Farook's brother-in-law didn't know.
FARHAN KHAN, BROTHER IN LAW OF FAROOK: I have no idea. Why would he do that? Why would he do something like this? I have absolutely no idea. I am in shock myself.
LAH: A sentiment echoed by Patrick Baccari.
BACCARI: Who wants to call their 16-year-old kid to tell them that you just survived an attack? Many people didn't that we love, so --
LAH: Baccari says the multiple bullet fragments in his body will stay, too risky to remove.
What also remains, confusion that the man he so closely knew did this, now turning to anger and fear.
BACCARI: I believe every citizen here should be armed to defend themselves in the case of this happening. But that's not everybody else's belief. I couldn't have defended anybody from the position I was in, even if I was armed. But at least if they tried to come in and get us in that restroom, I would have had some way of maybe protecting the rest of us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH: We could not find anything as far as a criminal background on Farook. But there are some court documents from a 2008 divorce between the parents that subtle he had a turbulent childhood. His mother filed a temporary restraining order. In court documents, she described her husband, Farook's father, as being violent, mentally ill at times, often not on his meds, and frequently saying he would commit suicide. She also described him as being violent, throwing once a tv on her -- John?
VAUSE: Kyung, thank you for that.
Now Islamic community leaders have been reacting with shock and disbelief to the shootings.
For more insight, let's turn to Hussam Ayloush, the executive director for the Greater Los Angeles area chapter of the Council on American Islamic Relations. He joins us via skype.
Hussam, thank you for being with us yet again for a second night here. As more details of the shooting spree emerge has there been any retaliation, any retribution you've noticed towards the Islamic community.
HUSSAM AYLOUSH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN ISLAMIC RELATIONS, GREATER AMERICAN CHAPTER: Fortunately, nothing serious. But there has been a lot of death threats, a lot of threats coming to mosques. CAIR has received multiple e-mail, phone calls throughout the day. But you know what? This is something, as bad as it is, should not distract us from the fact that there are people mourning the loss of loved ones now so. We can only imagine how families feel after loved ones could not make it back from that horrible incident. So our hearts go out to the victims, all the victims. And we pray for the wounded for a quick recovery.
[01:35:26] VAUSE: Again, as more details emerge, the radicalization that we're hearing from sources, the fact that Farook was in touch with a number of people under investigation by the FBI for terrorism, what has been your reaction to that? I'm curious if you managed to be in touch with Farook's family to find out what their reaction has been?
AYLOUSH: I have been in touch with the family on a daily basis. I just spoke with them a couple of hours ago just to make sure they are OK. Of course, they are in disbelief. Really -- there must be a reason for somebody to snap, for somebody to lose reason and lose compassion and humanity. I don't know what the reason might be that makes somebody susceptible or vulnerable to such behavior. They don't know either. When I spoke to them, they are in disbelief. Obviously we are to the going to speculate. We're hearing reports about a possible ideological extremism involved. We don't know the fact, but if it is, or whatever the motive might be, the fact still is the same. We unequivocally condemn such behavior, as Americans, as human beings, and continue to pray for the victims and all those who are impacted by it.
VAUSE: We spoke this time last night. And again, you were very quick to condemn the shootings here in San Bernardino. But in the hours after you did that, there was criticism from some conservatives, some criticism of you coming out and condemning it all. Do you feel in some ways that you are in a no-win situation now?
AYLOUSH: You know, I'm not trying to convince those who have their mind set. Those who have their mind set that Muslims are bad, Muslims are evil, are driven by their ignorance. I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for their bigotry and for their ignorance. I hope they don't teach their kids to generalize against any other community. I would feel bad for the kids.
I'm speaking to fellow humans like me, fellow Americans who have hearts, brains, have minds, that they can think, that they can tell that American Muslims, like all Ameicans, like most Ameicaans, I'd say, care about every human life, care about every American, and are as outraged by any killings, whether it happens in Colorado Springs or happens in Georgia or happens in San Bernardino. And that's the people I'm talking to. These are my fellow Americans. These are the ones sending messages to the mosque, visiting the mosques, sending messages to the Muslim neighbors saying we are all in it together. This is not one group victimized. All of us, together, are victimized by such criminal acts.
VAUSE: With that in mind, and my last question to you, what else can Islamic leaders like you do to convince Americans and other people out there that, you know, you are all in this together, that you are doing what you can do under these circumstances? What else are your options here?
AYLOUSH: I don't think this is just a job for American Muslims. Again, this is -- the threat of terrorism, whether from white supremacist groups or any religious extremist groups of Muslim, Christian, Jewish extremist groups, is a threat against all of us. All of us pay the price. The solution has to come from all of us working together. We have to realize this is a country worth fighting for, worth defending values, pluralism, diversity, tolerance. It's worth striving for. We cannot sit idly and watch, as a spectator, as some people when bigotry or violence try to destroy the way of living we have. It's not just Muslims who have to do something. All of us have to play a role in bringing us together, closing the gap of ignorance that exists or misinformation and misperception that exists out there.
VAUSE: Hussam, thank for being with us again. We very much appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
AYLOUSH: Thank you.
[01:39:19] VAUSE: Still to come here, we'll be joined by one of the physicians petitioning Congress to view gun violence as they would any other public health epidemic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWS NOW. Hello, i'm Natalie Allen.
Germany will vote in a few hours on whether it will expand its role in the fight against ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Lawmakers are expected to vote in favor so the German military will not be conducting its own air strikes.
Meantime, there is new intelligence that indicates ISIS plans to carry out its next attack against the U.K., which has just started air strikes in Syria.
Two men have been arrested in Belgium in association with the Paris terror attacks but the search for this man has gone cold. Salah Abdeslam is believed to be the eighth attacker. A senior counterterrorism official says European security agencies have had no trace of him since he was dropped off in Brussels November 14th, the day after the attacks.
The president of the Brazilian Football Confederation is taking a leave of absence. Marco Polo del Nero says he will devote his time to defending himself against U.S. charges stemming from the FIFA corruption scandal. U.S. federal prosecutors announced charges against 16 FIFA officials on Thursday. They allege the officials were part of a 24-year bribery scheme.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT L. CAPERS, U.S. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: We say to you, enough is enough. If you are involved in or have the desire to partake in this type of corruption that we are investigating and prosecuting, now is not the time to hold power or seek to gain power. Now is the time to step away, to make room for a new generation of leaders who we hope will give the beautiful game of soccer and millions of its fans the honest leadership it so richly deserves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: That is CNN NEWS NOW. I'm Natalie Allen. Continuing coverage on the mass shooting in California continues next.
ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: You are watching CNN's breaking coverage of a deadly shooting hoar in California. I'm Isha Sesay, in Los Angeles.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause, in San Bernardino.
U.S. President Barack Obama honored the shooting victims during the annual tree lighting ceremony in Washington on Thursday. The first family was there for the lighting. And despite it being a joyous occasion, there were some somber moments as President Obama honored those who lost their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SHOUTING)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Merry Christmas, everybody.
Their loss is our loss, too, for we're all one American family. We look out for each other in good times and in bad. And they should know that all of us care about them this holiday season. They are in our thoughts. They are in our prayers. And we send them our love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: In their first appearances since Wednesday's shooting, Republican presidential candidates expressed condolences to the victim's families and the survivors. And while President Obama has hesitated in calling the shooting terrorism, some GOP candidates did not hold back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: We had another event which probably was -- the one yesterday, probably was related, radical Islamic terrorism. And I'll tell you what. We have a president that refuses to use the term. He refuses to say it. There is something going on with him.
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Politically correct doublespeak that comes from the Obama administration has gone beyond the point of ridiculous.
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R), NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am convinced that was a terrorist attack.
(APPLAUSE)
CHRISTIE: And --
(APPLAUSE)
CHRISTIE: -- the president continues to wring his hands and say, we'll see.
JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: The brutal savagery of Islamic terrorism exists. And this president and his former secretary of state cannot call it for what it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: More from San Bernardino in just a moment. But for now, we'll head back to Los Angeles, and Isha.
[01:45:] SESAY: Thanks John.
Records show that mass shootings occur in the U.S. on average more than once a day. ShootingTracker.com defines a mass shooting as one that leaves four or more people wounded or dead. There have been 353 of those in the U.S. this year, taking place in 220 cities and 47 states. Including Wednesday's attack, a total of 462 people have been killed in mass shootings in 2015. And more than 1300 have been injured.
Well, hours before Wednesday's shooting, a group of doctors delivered a petition to Congress asking them to lift restrictions on gun violence research in the U.S. Supporters say this latest attack underscores an urgency for objective medical perspectives.
I spoke with one of the physicians pressing lawmakers to reconsider.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SESAY: Doctor Alice Chen, thank you so much for joining us.
Now, you said the U.S. is dealing with a gun violence epidemic. And you actually belong to a group of physicians who believe we should be looking at the problem of gun violence as a public health issue. Why is that important?
DR. ALICE CHEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DOCTORS FOR AMERICA: Gun violence is something that is affecting communities, individuals, families across the country every single day. And as medical professionals, as doctors, as nurses, as public health professionals we are seeing these people coming into our hospitals, our E.R.s, people coming in with injuries, people killed by gun violence, we are seeing them, having to treat them every single day. It is clearly a public health issue.
SESAY: Talk to me about the impact of this ban. Talk to me about the kind of data you believe is being lost because it's in place.
CHEN: We do have a small number of researchers who have been doing research during the past 20 years but it's not nearly enough. We have over 32,000 people who are dying of gun violence every year in America. And there is so much information that we don't have. We don't know, what are -- what are the best ways that we can prevent a teenager from committing suicide with a gun? What -- where are the urban violence that's happening, where are those guns coming from? Are they illegal? Are they legal? What are the best ways to prevent a child from accidentally finding a gun and shooting their sibling? These are some basic questions that we need answered.
SESAY: How optimistic are you that the ban will be lifted?
CHEN: I am optimistic. Congress has an opportunity right now to lift the ban. If they don't do it now, they have an opportunity at any moment that they could lift this ban. And we are seeing an increasing outcry among so many people who are saying this is not an issue of right versus left, of Republicans versus Democrats. These are questions everyone wants answers to. Every time we hear stories of another shooting, one of the first questions all of us ask is, how did this happen, and how can we prevent it. And that is exactly what we are trying to get done.
SESAY: Doctor Alice Chen, we appreciate your efforts and you joining us here to discuss them. Thank you so much for speaking to us.
CHEN: Thank you so much for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SESAY: We continue to follow our breaking news coverage of the shooting here in San Bernardino, California. Coming up, the chilling police audio and the chaos that followed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SIRENS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[01:49:53] DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Good day. I'm CNN Meteorologist Derek Van Dam, with a quick look at your "Weather Watch."
(WEATHER REPORT)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SESAY: You are watching CNN's breaking coverage of a mass shooting at a conference center here in California. I'm Isha Sesay, in Los Angeles.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause, in San Bernardino.
Now, was it a workplace disagreement or was it a terror attack? Investigators say the massacre at a holiday party was probably a little of both. Sources say the gunman, Syed Rezwan Farook, was apparently radicalized. He had been in touch with a number of people under investigation by the FBI for international terrorism. Law enforcement officials say they have recovered two smashed cell phones from a garbage can not far from a crime scene. A computer also recovered at the shooter's home but the hard drive was missing, leading investigators to believe it was either removed or destroyed.
Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, killed 14 people at that conference center on Wednesday. They were killed a few hours later in a shootout with police.
The chaos began at 11:00 a.m. local time and it would continue for hours.
CNN's Poppy Harlow has more on the minute by minute response by police.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(GUNFIRE)
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Confirmed. We have got a shooter in that car.
(END AUDIO FEED)
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Police zero in on Syed Rezwan Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, who just hours before had brutally shot and killed 14 people at an office event.
Acting on a tip, officers head to a house in the town of Redlands just 10 miles from the scene of the mass shooting. As they approach the home, a black Ford SUV drives by, slowly at first, then speeding away.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: We are in pursuit of the suspect vehicle eastbound on San Bernardino Avenue from Richardson. We've got shots fired out the back window.
(END AUDIO FEED) HARLOW: One shooter fires at police who are in hot pursuit. The chase headed back to San Bernardino. All of it playing out on live television.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
DISPATCHER: We have units at San Bernardino and Richardson that are taking fire.
(END AUDIO FEED)
HARLOW: The SUV comes to a stop and a full-scale gun ballots breaks out.
(GUNFIRE)
HARLOW: The shooter firing 76 rounds. At least 21 officers return fire. Nearly 400 rounds riddle the SUV.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Multiple shots fired. We need a Bearcat. We need medical aid.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Right now, we have one down inside the car. One down outside the car.
(END AUDIO FEED)
HARLOW: Syed Rezwan Farook gets out. But he didn't get very far, his body in a pool of blood just across the street. Malik, her 6-month- old daughter at home with Grandma, dies in the vehicle.
As darkness falls, a robot enters the shooters' home. Found inside, thousands of rounds of ammunition, 12 pipe bombs, and what investigators call a bomb lab, with hundreds of tools that could be used to make explosives.
(on camera): And the question remains tonight, with all of those bomb-making materials, the pipe bombs, the tools found in the couple's home, did they have bigger plans? Were there other targets? That, we may never know. But the FBI digging through their garage, their home today to try to find any clues they can as to what could have possibly been the motivation behind this mass murder.
Poppy Harlow, CNN, San Bernardino, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[01:55:37] VAUSE: It was a massive police response, by all accounts. More than 300 officers responding to that shooting here yesterday, Isha.
SESAY: Massive, indeed. And the scene was one of horror.
You are watching CNN's continuing coverage. I'm Isha Sesay, in Los Angeles.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause, live in San Bernardino.
And we will be right back with a lot more on our breaking news coverage, after a very short break.
You are watching CNN, live around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:00:14] ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and thank you for joining us.
