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President Barack Obama Will Address the Nation From Oval Office; The Father of San Bernardino Killer Tells an Italian Newspaper Son Shared the Ideology of ISIS Leader al-Baghdadi; President Jimmy Carter is Cancer-Free; U.S. Economy Added 211,000 Jobs Last Month. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 06, 2015 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:11] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: We are waiting now for a historic moment in the war against ISIS. President Obama preparing to speak from the oval office tonight in prime time. Insiders insist he has a plan to destroy this dangerous terrorist organization.

While in San Bernardino, people in this country touched by horrific violence mourn the death of their neighbors and they wait to hear what the president will say about their tragedy.

It is 5:00 in Washington, D.C. our nation's capital. 2:00 p.m. in San Bernardino. I'm Poppy Harlow live for you in New York this Sunday evening. We are just three hours away now from a very rare event, an event so rare it has only happened two other times during President Obama's term. Here is a live look at the White House where at 8:00 p.m. eastern the president will speak directly to the American people from the oval office. CNN will have special coverage beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern.

Here is what we expect. The president will update the American public both on the ongoing terror threat and how he plans to keep this country safe. And the timing of this address is critical, just four days after the ISIS inspired mass shooting in San Bernardino, California, and just three days, three weeks, I should say, after the terror attacks in Paris.

A recent "Washington Post"/ABC News poll found that after those attacks in Paris, only 40 percent of Americans approved of President Obama's handling of terrorism. That is a record low.

Joining me now to discuss the significance of tonight, what we might hear from the president, CNN presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, CNN's senior political analyst and former adviser to four president, David Gergen.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here tonight. We are all anticipating what the president will say.

And David, I think it is very significant, obviously, that this is an oval office address. Only the third time we will have seen this president use the office for the address. He didn't use it when he announced that Osama bin Laden had been killed. He did use it to talk about the end of U.S. combat operations in Iraq and to talk about the BP oil spill. Talk me through why it was decided tonight to make this address from the oval office and the steps behind that.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think there is a growing sense of potential crisis in governance and that is can the White House keep the country safe not only at home but prosecute military action in Syria that actually gets something done. And the level of anxiety among the populous now, I think in some parts of the country, is about where it was or approaching where we were right after 9/11. Of course that was a devastating attack.

So I think this is an extremely important moment. The president has for whatever reason, I think mistakenly, chosen to use the oval office that night fewer times than any other president of television age. This is only the third time. But that gives extra significance to this speech and raises expectations. This is not going to be a speech about reassurance but about action. I don't think people are looking for a father in chief. I think they are looking for a commander in- chief. And they don't want somebody who is not just calm, they want somebody who is mad as hell to go after to the people who are after us.

HARLOW: And rhetoric, the language, of course will be critical tonight.

When you look at some of the famous speeches from other presidents that have been delivered from the oval office. You have President George W. Bush speaking on 9/11. Ronald Reagan on the challenger disaster. JFK on the Cuban missile crisis.

Douglas Brinkley, to you. What could tonight's speech means for this president's legacy, he got just over 400 days left in office. And he is facing a lot of critics that say the words that he is used do not necessarily match the threat.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, you said that the president has a 40 percent approval rating and how he is dealing with the war on terror. That's a problem for the president. That should be over 50 percent. He is got to stop those numbers from hemorrhaging. And incidentally, that was taken -- that's not even include in what happened in San Bernardino yet. So this president has to talk to the American people. Whatever he says this evening, the GOP is not going to like. The Republicans running for president are going to be on the morning show saying the president didn't say the right things.

But I think President Obama has an opportunity to hear to be a commander in-chief, to tell us what's going on in Syria, to tell us about the vigilance and the resolution of winning, of beating ISIS. This has to be almost a wartime speech.

HARLOW: Wartime speech. So you bring up what some of the GOP presidential candidates might say tomorrow morning. Let's take a listen to what they've said thus far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As Barack Obama's former chief of staff Rahm Emanuel said, you never want to waste a good crisis. A terror attack on U.S. soil, answer, disarm the American citizens.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president is struggling mightily to be relevant in a dangerous world. And he is focused on the wrong climate.

[17:05:01] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Radical Islamic terrorism, and I'll tell you what, we have a president that refuses to use the term. He refuses to say it. There is something going on with him that we don't know about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: David Gergen, as much as this speech tonight is in the wake of Paris, San Bernardino, is it also about responding to those words?

GERGEN: I think it is. And I think he has to recognize, and I'm sure he does, that he is never going to win over the candidates who are trying to, you know, displace him in his administration. I think what he does have to do though is he has to not only just keep the democratic base with him but he has to reach out to independents.

Doug Brinkley is right. Forty percent approval rating in the midst of a terror is not a good place to be. He needs to lift himself. He has to persuade people. But I don't think that comes simply from reassurance. I think it comes from some concrete actions that fit into a credible plan that not only degrade but to defeat ISIS.

You know, they keep saying they are winning. We are winning the war against ISIS. But what have people seen in the last few weeks? They have seen Paris which is carried out by ISIS. Now, they have seen this attack in San Bernardino, which is tied to ISIS. We have seen expansion to Libya. We need to have a sense that we are actually going to win this thing. We are in it to win. Not just to play halfhearted games with it.

HARLOW: Douglas, to you. If you were writing this speech what would your first line be tonight, to the American people as the world watches?

BRINKLEY: That we are going to use all American resources to defeat ISIS, everything at our disposal. The president cannot guarantee, and this is why he is in a bit of a conundrum. He cannot say there will be no more San Bernardinos and then one happens a week or two from now, he will look very foolish.

He has to talk about the American people doing their part and we are going to do this. Freedom is going to win. You know, FDR famously gave a for freedom speech and one plank of it was freedom from fear. We cannot in the United States be held in hostage really or in a permanent state of fear due to Islamic terrorism. And I think the president has to be a cautious, not over prom missing when he can deliver, but mind us what we are doing. Are our airstrikes working in Syria or are they not? What's the game plan? I don't think anyone knows what our strategy is in the Middle East. Tonight is an opportunity to articulate that.

HARLOW: So David Gergen, on this point. Does this need to be is a strategy, sort of military speech, if you will? Or does this need to be a speech that addresses that but also addresses sort of Muslims in this country growing anti-Muslim rhetoric, the refugee debate? Does he address all three or is it not object that tonight?

GERGEN: I think he needs to address what's going on here at home with people who self-radicalize, people who get on the Internet and go over to this radical Islamic action. Having said that, you also have to go back to the roots of where this came from and this is clearly from the Middle East, Syria. I think he does need to have a speech which covers, OK, how are we going to defeat ISIS? And how are we going to deal with the refugee flow? We need to be humanitarian but on the other hand there are a lot of Americans who don't want to see, you know, back door terrorists come in to our front door as we saw with a woman who just got killed.

You know, it's pretty clear that she was radicalized before she came. She planned this. Everything, you know, she got through our system and got here and 14 people are dead now, another 21 are badly injured.

HARLOW: Douglas Brinkley, thank you. David Gergen, thank you, guys, for your expertise.

GERGEN: Thank you.

HARLOW: Again, our special coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. eastern tonight of the president's address from the oval office hosted by our very own Wolf Blitzer. And best political team on television, that will be followed by the president's remarks live from the oval office at 8:00 eastern. At 9:00 p.m. tune in for "CNN Heroes," all-star tribute hosted by our Anderson Cooper. All right here.

Earlier today some very welcome news this Sunday. Former president Jimmy Carter made a big announcement, he is cancer free. And he shared the good news with his Sunday school class first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I went for an MRI of my brain. The four places were still there but they were responding to the treatment. And when I went this week, they didn't find any cancer at all. So I have good news.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: You heard that sigh of relief. Carter announced in August the doctors had found four spots of cancer on his brain. He said his fate quote "is in the hands of God whom I worship." He said Sunday he will continue with his treatments.

Next, we head to San Bernardino, California, where there are new developments in the aftermath of last week's massacre. Stay with us for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:13:06] HARLOW: New developments in the aftermath of last week's California massacre. ISIS now says the husband and wife team responsible for the shooting in San Bernardino were terror supporters. The FBI is already treating the attack that killed 14 people, injured 21 more, as an act of terrorism. They are investigating it that way.

And also today, Italy's "La Stampa" newspaper report in the "Times of Israel" both report that Syed Farook was quote "obsessed with Israel." That he shared the ISIS philosophy and he wanted to see an Islamic state established.

Farook's father quote bid the papers as saying, one time I saw that he had a gun and I became angry. I yelled. I never had a weapon. He shrugged his shoulders and said, your loss. The father goes on to say, I cannot forgive myself. Maybe if I had been at home I would have found out and stopped him.

This comes as people filed into community churches around San Bernardino today and prayed for those in their community who are lost in this attack.

Our Dan Simon is on the story. He joins me now from Rialto, California.

You know, Dan, I was there earlier this week. And it was, you know, in the wake of what had just happened and the community was trying to get their head around it, today, Sunday, a day to reflect, a day to go to church, what are they saying?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, of course one of the things that people turn to in times of tragedy is their faith. And nowhere is that more evident than where I am here at the St. Catherine church of Rialto, California. The shooting happened less than ten minutes from where I'm standing. As you can see, feel are filing out of the church, one of several masses taken place here.

You know, what happened really hits close to home here. One of the people who died, one of the victims is 27-year-old Yvette Velasco. This is the church she attended regularly with her family and people were remembering her today. She was described business her family as a very intelligent person, a very motivated, and everybody who knew her, they say, loved her.

Of course, church clergy are talking about the grief that people are feeling, talking very openly about it and how people can heal. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:15:12] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This week we have been witness of how evil can touch anyone, anywhere, and at any given moment. There is questions how can something like this take place? How can I reconcile my fate with what's happening? Why will God allow something like this to take place? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is hard for me to do this because I'm angry

at the moment but it's hard for me to do this. But the thing I'm saying to them and I'm saying it to myself as well, is that even the Muslims are our brothers and sisters. We must love the Muslim people as much as we love catholic people or Christian people or Jewish people or even atheist people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: And as you can imagine, Poppy, similar words are being echoed in churches all throughout this community today. And one interesting twist to all of this is the shooter, Syed Farook, as we know, he was an inspector, a health inspector. And he actually came and checked out the facilities here at the church. He looked at their kitchen and oddly enough this took place not too long ago. He gave the church the highest rating. But I talked to people who had interactions with him and they say he was a nice guy. There was nothing that was suspicious about him and they are just as surprised as anybody else is about what happened - Poppy.

HARLOW: Dan Simon reporting for us live this evening. Dan, thank you very much.

And this tragedy has made us all vividly aware to a threat of our own communities. Joining me next, Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez. I spoke with her live when I was in California this week. We will talk again about the threat. She sits on the house homeland security and armed services committee. What intelligence can she share ahead of the president's address? She will join us straight ahead.

But first, a look at President Obama live right now. He is in the east room speaking in the east room of the White House. This is ahead of his address to the nation in less than two hours-time. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:51] HARLOW: President Obama will try to reassure a jittery nation tonight after what may have been the first ISIS inspired attack by people living in the United States. Memorials for the victims are on display right now in San Bernardino, California. I was there earlier this week as people went with disbelief. A married couple with semiautomatic rifle stormed the husband's holiday office event killing 14 of his coworkers, injuring 21 others.

Joining me now congresswoman Loretta Sanchez of California. She is a Democrat. She is running for the Senate. Thank you very much for being with me again.

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Poppy. And thanks for being out here in San Bernardino. People really appreciated it.

HARLOW: It's the least we could do. I'm so sorry for what happened to all of those innocent people. And as we look at this, I mean, you sit on the house armed services committee. You sit on the homeland security committee. We heard from the attorney general Loretta Lynch this morning on NBC's" Meet the Press." And she said that officials, the FBI has done over 300 interviews.

I'm interested in what intelligence you have gained at this point that you can share with us about any motivation for the attack. We have heard ant radicalization. What can you tell us about where that radicalization came from and to what extent?

SANCHEZ: Poppy, we are still trying to piece that together. Some of the most sensitive information obviously cannot be shared at this point. And really I would be remiss to share it. But I -- you know, they are working hard. I mean, homeland security, FBI, justice department, our state resource, local law enforcement, are working hard to piece this together. And it may take another ten days, two weeks, that's what I generally see, before we really have a good picture of why, how, how did this happen, you know. The most important thing right now is for Californians and for the nation to understand that our agencies are working very hard to keep them safe. And we have been the entire time.

HARLOW: The FBI is investigating this as terror situation, potential terror attack. The president has called it a terror attack. Would you call these two individuals terrorists?

SANCHEZ: I would certainly say that given the amount of ammunition and arms that they had, not only in the vehicle in which they were speeding away, but also in the purported home that they had leased. You can -- it would be very hard for someone to look at all of that armament and say these people weren't planning attacks. I think it's -- it's fairly obvious at this point that they had something that they were going to do.

HARLOW: The father of the male shooter, Syed Farook, told an Italian newspaper today, "La Stampa" that his son quote "shared the ideology of al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, to create an Islamic State and he was fixated on Israel."

I'm interested in your response to that. I mean, this is an American. He was raised here. This is what his father is saying. Is this ISIS at work in America?

SANCHEZ: We certainly have seen that is has been incredibly effective in its propaganda machine, in its social media, in getting to people who, you know, for various reason, either for isolation or religious zeal, for something much bigger that they have been able to penetrate so many. This is why we see the recruiting going on not -- right off of the internet.

So the answer is, there is not enough to just degrade ISIS. We have to defeat ISIS. And I believe tonight the president will talk about that and he should talk about that and we need to understand that he needs to tell us that he is doing everything and will do everything to protect America and Americans.

HARLOW: But, look, this is the president. And let's take a look at him as we speak. We have some live images of the president right now in the east room ahead of this big address. He is speaking to those who will be honored at the Kennedy Center later tonight. But when he sits behind his desk in the oval office and gives only his

third oval office address of his entire presidency, what do you want to hear him say that is different, congresswoman, from what he said so many times in the past when it comes to ISIS? What specifics are you and your constituents looking for?

[17:25:25] SANCHEZ: It want to know that he will say that we are going to have a decisive defeat of ISIS. That he will use every resource and that he will work with Congress to ensure that. I want him to say that he will work hard every day to ensure that America and Americans are safe. So it really is a desire to show what I know he is capable of. Remember, he was the steely one in the room when the facts might not all have been there to say we are going after Osama bin Laden and we are going to get him. So I know that he can do that. That he can be a great commander in chief. And I believe that Americans want to see that.

But you know, it's not just the president. It has to be the Congress. It is so easy for these candidates that are running for president, especially the Republicans, to downgrade, to degrade, to do whatever it is they can to go after the president. This is not the time to do it. We must be unified as a nation.

HARLOW: Congresswoman, to be --

SANCHEZ: Such a threat in front of us.

HARLOW: -- to be fair, we have also seen the American people losing their trust in this president if in terms-his ability to counterterrorism. The latest "Washington Post"/ABC poll shows only 40 percent of Americans are satisfied with how he has handled terrorism and terrorist threat. What needs to change on that front?

SANCHEZ: Well, I think he has to be very formidable. He has to be very strong tonight. You know, I am one of those that don't like the strategy laid out in front of our enemies, if you will, because they will be watching what we say. But the objectives have to be very clear and very strong. And the strategy, well, we need to leave it to our military and to our diplomats to figure out. The most important thing, he needs to do which has been very difficult to do. And this is why I say Republicans need to be with us in order to get this done. We have to get the regional players in that area onboard with us to defeat ISIL.

HARLOW: Right. And we heard Marco Rubio calling for that as well.

Representative Loretta Sanchez, I appreciate you joining me tonight. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: The attack in San Bernardino shocked so many of us in so many ways, not just the violence, but the details. How the killers dropped off their 6-month-old child with their grandmother before carrying out this heinous attack. We will talk about those details and what it means for this evolving fight against ISIS in America, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:12] HARLOW: A stay at home mother of a 6-month-old child, this woman on the right, Tashfeen Malik, reportedly pledged allegiance to ISIS on her Facebook. That is what authorities are saying. She and her husband put on tactical gear Wednesday. They walked into her husband's holiday office event. They started shooting. They killed 14 people. My next guest says the deadly rampage in San Bernardino is quote "the most twisted terrorist plot yet." "Daily Beast" correspondent Michael Daly is with me now.

It is so nice to have you. .

MICHAEL DALY, CORRESPONDENT, DAILY BEAST: Thanks for having me.

HARLOW: I wish it were on better terms.

DALY: Me, too.

HARLOW: This is what stood out to me most from your piece this week. You write, this one tells us that we are in a war like no other. A war on which a couple drops by their -- drops their baby with grandma then goes to a holiday party to murder co-workers who not long ago threw them a baby shower. What does this tell you about ISIS in America?

DALY: First of all, it tells you that ISIS is not -- is an organization but it's also a kind of philosophy, a world view. And you know, it's the love of death. I think to me the struggle really is, those of us who love life and those people who love death.

HARLOW: That's exactly what they attacked in Paris, right?

HARLOW: It is, yes. I mean, they tried to bring darkness in the city of light. They - I mean, what's more diabolic -- how can you take your 6-month-old baby, right, here, ma, grandma, you know, and just go off and murder people.

HARLOW: The "New York Times," obviously this stands out, the "New York Times" front page yesterday run their first editorial on the front imagine a for the first time in nearly a century. Some people loved it. A lot of people hated it, too, on guns and the gun epidemic. That's what it's called, in this country. When you look at this as a New Yorker and in the wake of 9/11, what were your thoughts?

DALY: Well, I mean, the thing -- when you think about 9/11 you can't believe - I mean, I was down across north tower when it came down. You can't -- such an enormous event but you had a feeling like, you know, that it's going to lead to a response and that will end it, you know. It is like if there is a horrible murder you lock up the people who did it and that's it. I mean, this goes on and on and on and on. And the gun thing, I mean, guns are a huge problem in the country. We had 9-year-old kid got deliberately targeted for murder in Chicago, in the president's home down. That wasn't related to ISIS.

HARLOW: That was gang related. DALY: But that's another kind of terrorism. I think that the gun

thing becomes so nuts when you say that, OK, in this country you can be put on a list where you are not allowed to fly but you can go down on the corner and buy one of these assault rifles.

HARLOW: Right. So a bill to overturn was voted down in the Senate this week. I just want to get your thoughts ahead of the president's speech tonight. This is only his third address from the oval office. As we sit here, both of us in New York on 9/11, as you look at the increased threat as a New Yorker, what do you want to hear from the president?

DALY: It's -- I mean, you know, if you thought it made a difference you like to hear, alright, let's go to Iraq. Well, you know, we went into Fallujah, too, once. I mean, I was down at Arlington Cemetery the other day with where this Special Forces guy was buried and then, you know, that is his grave. And then all the empty ground beyond that is for the next graves. And in New York you want to say, alright, let's end this. Let's get these guys. This is not going to work. That is not going to work.

So then you - what I hope that he is going to say that we all have to fight this. And if you look at San Bernardino you see among the victims was a Vietnamese catholic woman and a Muslim woman, who were the best of friends. The Muslim woman worshipped in the same mosque where this guy Farook worshipped. They were the best of friends. And to me, that is how you beat is. That is America.

And you know, everybody says if you see something, say something. Well, my feeling is if you can do something, do it. If you can make it a little better, if you can bridge people, if you can fight the terrorist, not just by not being afraid to go out, but also don't let them make you hate everybody who is a Muslim. They would love nothing better than that.

[17:35:41] HARLOW: To play right into their hands.

Michael Daly, thank you. Thanks to having you on.

We will all be watching for the president's address tonight 8:00 p.m. eastern. We will carry it live here on CNN.

Turning the page, we are going to talk about American opportunity this week. Could you make ends meet? Could you make it by working 40 hours a week just making 25 cents above the federal minimum wage?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We would rather not pull a tooth because it's savable. And then I'm like, well, I rather you pull it because it's like I can't pay for it but it's bothering me and I don't want the pain. So I would rather you just pull the tooth. It's not really what you want to do but it's what you have to settle for because you can't afford to get the right dental care.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: After the break, we will introduce you to that woman who knows what it is like to live on $7.50 an hour. Then we will debate the policy behind it. Stay with me.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): When the sun goes down on Bangkok, a different version of the city comes to life. Reenergized with new sights, sounds, and flavor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are living in Bangkok, you are spoiled. We go, we eat at the best restaurant in the world. Our tongue has been spoiled.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Indian chef (INAUDIBLE) is back in the Thai capital to cook up a new creation inspired by his trip to Calcutta. It's based on a traditional seafood dish, (INAUDIBLE). His journey continues amongst the colorful floral displays of one of the Bangkok's sprawling 24-hour markets. (INAUDIBLE) and his team prowl beyond the flowers in search of the freshest ingredients for the recipe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are in the middle of night, almost 1:00 a.m. in the morning. And this is when the market really starts. We have this 24-hour vegetable supply. We are getting the freshest. This was in the farm today, in the morning. It was cut, packed, so it's too hot outside. Then they are ready to be consumed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: To add fragrance and spice to his dish, (INAUDIBLE) needs to find some lime leaves, mustard flowers, and the all important chili.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to decide on the chilies. The smaller the chilies, the spicier they are. $1.50, that's how many chilies you get. This is Bangkok.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: You can watch the full show at CNN.com/journeys. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:31] HARLOW: Another month, another strong U.S. jobs report. U.S. economy added 211,000 jobs last month in the unemployment rate held steady at five percent. That is pre-financial crisis level, even wages are starting to wise. Hourly job earnings rose more than two percent in November compared to a year ago. Those are good lines. That is good news. But those games are not happening fast enough for the millions of workers in this country who are demanding an increase in the federal minimum wage. Their message, minimum wage is not a livable wage.

CNN money takes a look at what it is like to live on $7.50 an hour in America through the eyes of Sophia Cotton.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOPHIA COTTON, MINIMUM WAGE EMPLOYEE: I make $7.50 an hour at McDonald's. I make $230 or $240 every two weeks. I have been working there for almost a year. I haven't had a raise since I started working there. You go home every day. I came into work one morning. I had to be there at 7:00. And once the general manager came in, she came in at like 7:30, 8:00, and she was like, OK, well, Sophia, you can clock out. I'm like, well, I just got here. She is like, well, we don't need you. Labor is high. You can go ahead and clock out.

I got $261 in food stamps last month. Then they deducted it to $216. To go through $216 to feed my son, me, every day, feed him breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So I buy like frozen foods I can keep in the refrigerator or in the freeze. I don't buy fresh fruits because it's not guaranteed it will be eaten all. Make it stretch.

Number one always is to make sure my rent is paid. I make sure that we have somewhere to live. Me and say my sister split it, $220 apiece. $125 of it for us. One of my checks was $238 and it was like the week that rent was due. So it was like I paid the rent. I had no other choice. But then I found myself borrowing and borrowing. So when my next check come, that's my check that I used like to get diapers, my son some clothes, like that's the check I used to get those things. So it was like I found myself breaking into that because I have to pay everybody back.

I only go to the doctor if I need to go or I have no other choice to go, I'll go. I needed a root canal for one of my back teeth. And it was like, well, you know, if you get a root canal, it's -- I think they told me it was -- it was like around 300 or something dollars but they needed like a down payment. I couldn't -- I have to pay the whole thing or put down half, down payment. So I'm just like, OK, well, how much would it be to pull a tooth or whatever? They are like, well, it's free to pull a tooth. But we would rather not pull a tooth because it's savable. And then I'm like, well, I would rather you pull it because it's like I can't pay for it. But it's bothering me and I don't want the pain. So I would rather you just pull the tooth. It's not really what you want to do but it's what you have to settle for because you can't afford to get the right dental care.

If I wasn't getting rent assistance, food stamps, or child care help, I think I would still be like living in a shelter or something because I wouldn't be able to pay rent and take care of my son and, you know, make sure he is close and fed off of the checks that I receive from McDonald's.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: "CNN Money" thank you for that report. Sophia still works for McDonald's. We have reached out to them. Here is part of what they told us. In July, we just at our company owned restaurants in United States increased $1 over the locally mandated minimum wage. That affects more than 90,000 employees. McDonald's and our independent franchises support paying our valued employees fair wages aligned with a competitive marketplace. So we are going to debate this after the break. Is an increase in the

federal minimum wage, which now stands at 7.25 an hour? A lot states are higher. Is increasing, that's the answer for those who are struggling like Sophia? I will talk to a man who says that could actually cost her her job all together. We'll debate it, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:58] HARLOW: All right. We are going to talk about the piece you just saw about life on $7.50 an hour. And if the minimum wage increase, would be a savior for workers like Sophia, who you just saw her story, or would it kill a lot of those jobs?

CNN Money's Tanzina Vega is with me. She covers this extensively. Also with me is Ben Gitis, the director of labor market policy at the American Action Forum. Thank you both for being here.

Ben, let me begin with you. People like Sophia are why, there is a growing chorus in this country to raise the minimum wage, some of them, many of them, fighting for $15 an hour. You argue that the numbers, when you crunch them, show you that that will hurt those people. Why?

BEN GITIS, DIRECTOR OF LABOR MARKET POLICY, AMERICAN ACTION FORUM: Well, these efforts to raise the minimum wage are out of real frustrations of the very slow wage growth we've had through this slow recovery, to be honest. But when you raise the minimum wage, it's not only that any worker loses their jobs. It is the low wage, low skilled workers that this policy is intended to help, they are the ones who end up with their jobs lost. So if you're fortunately enough to remain employed, it's definitely a good policy from you. But you're in effect transferring income from those who are unfortunate to become jobless to those who remain employed. So that doesn't sound like good antipoverty policy to me.

HARLOW: Here is what I want Tanzina to weigh in because you studied this extensively, Tanzina. I mean, it's not like these low-wage jobs can just fire everyone who is working for them. What have you found?

TANZINA VEGA, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, exactly. And I think what we need to look at here is that when we think about low wage workers and we think about fast food workers in particular in this movement for $15 is these are not just teenagers. These are not people who are working just to get some experience and make a little bit of money on the side. These are often increasingly adults, heads of households, elderly workers, immigrant workers. These are people who are supporting families as the woman we saw in the video.

And so raising the minimum wage for these folks sometimes what is on the spreadsheet doesn't translate to what is on the kitchen table.

HARLOW: Do those jobs go away? I mean, Ben's group, and Ben, you guys have crunched the numbers and said that raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would result in 6.6 million job losses. Where did those numbers come from? GITIS: They are based on research from economists from Texas, Jeremy

Wither and Michael West. They found that when you increase the minimum wage, it doesn't necessarily cost someone to lose their jobs but it would decrease the net job growth rate. So there is fewer jobs available for those who are unemployed.

HARLOW: Tanzina?

VEGA: Actually, there is actually been other studies done. I think economists are always divided on these issues. I think when we look at it, there is card and Krueger that progressive often cite that was done in the early 1990. They have looked at this issue in New Jersey and actually showed that there was no loss of jobs. Krueger has written an op-ed in the "New York Times" calling for the fact that maybe $15 an hour which is what a lot of these folks are calling for, might be a little risky but raising the minimum wage to $12 an hour is actually going to be beneficial.

HARLOW: And we sure the president called for $10.10 an hour.

VEGA: That's right.

HARLOW: Ben and Tanzina, I want you both to listen to this. I'm going to play you some sound from Donald Trump, the front-runner who met with group of black pastors earlier this week. And he focused a lot on addressing black unemployment in this country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We are going to be solving a lot of problems. Right now you have black youth, if you look at African-American youth, where it's 51, and 55, and 57 percent unemployed, you have African-American people of different ages, where it is double and triple other numbers. So we are looking at a lot of different thing. But this meeting was amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And if you look at this poll, as we talk, guys, what it shows is that by a huge margin Republicans think he is the best one to handle the economy.

Ben to you, when it comes to African-American unemployment in this country, what's the answer?

GITIS: Well, I think the answer is not policies that could potentially reduce the job growth rate, which would happen if we raise the minimum wage. And moreover, when you raise the minimum wage, the majority of the benefits from the engine gained don't go to those at the bottom that the policy wants to help. Only a small portion would go to those in poverty. That seven percent, 14 percent go to those six times the poverty line. There are far better solutions, like the earned income credit.

HARLOW: I got 30 seconds - Tanzina? VEGA: If we want to address the racial grab, what we need to do is

make sure that we are addressing issues like discrimination in the workplace, that were issues that were looking at unfair wage and the wage gap that different people of color have against white workers in this country. I mean, there are real systemic issues that have to be addressed. Blacks with college degrees are less likely to be employed than those with college degrees overall. So it's not necessarily always an issue of education. There are other issues that need to be address.

HARLOW: Thank you very much. I wish we had more time. You will come back. Ben, I would love to have you back as well. We will keep talking about this. Thank you both very much.

I've got some breaking news ahead. I do want to show you this live pictures of the White House with the countdown is on for President Obama as he prepares to address the nation about the terror threat dominating much of the national conversation. What to expect from this rare and potentially history-making oval office address, next.

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