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San Bernardino Shooting; FBI Searches Home of Gun Buyer; Chicago Cop Won't Be Charged. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 07, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:01] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow, in for my friend Brooke Baldwin today.

Radicalized and reaching out for a terror group to call their own, investigators now piecing together the lives of the depraved husband and wife terrorists who left their baby, their six-month-old, and slaughtered 14 people at a holiday gathering in San Bernardino, California, last week. We are now waiting for the FBI to update us on the investigation. A live press conference expected in just about one hour's time. We will bring that to you as soon as it begins.

And this happens as a new picture, look at this picture, surfaces of the two of them together, the first showing the killers together. CNN has now learned that the husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, had recently looked into contacting al Qaeda affiliates overseas. His father, over the weekend, telling an Italian newspaper that he knew his son had come to support the ISIS goal of creating a caliphate, or an Islamic State, and was fixated on his hatred for Israel. But despite all of this, there is a new theory emerging this hour that it was his wife who was the true architect of their radicalization.

Joining me now, Pamela Brown, CNN justice correspondent, who has been digging consistently on this, working your sources. You're the one who got this picture of them. And I just want you to walk us behind what we know about it.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, this picture was taken at Chicago's O'Hare Airport in the summer of 2014. This was in July. And this is as soon as this couple, now, you know, married murders, if you will -

HARLOW: Yes.

BROWN: Arrived after being in Saudi Arabia, meeting over there. And then she came here, Tashfeen Malik, on this fiance visa we know. And from then obtained a conditional green card.

So this is the first picture we're seeing, Poppy, of the two of them together. This is in the immigration file from when she came here to the U.S. And now, Poppy, there's a lot of scrutiny about this visa program she came under. This K-1 (ph) visa, a fiance visa, given the fact that, you know, she was one of the people involved with this massacre. And also officials I've been speaking with say she may have been radicalized before she even stepped foot into the U.S. So the question is being raised, well, how did she get the clearance and pass all of the security measures to come to the U.S. and obtain this visa?

HARLOW: What about the fact, Pamela, that it appears, according to investigators, that the husband reached out to contacts with al Nusra, al Shabaab, al Qaeda overseas, but yet his father now says he was sort of following and adherent to al Baghdadi. Just sort of this - this hybrid of all these terror group inspirations it seems.

BROWN: Well, and it's interesting you point that out, Poppy, because the officials I've been speaking to say we can't label this yet as just ISIS inspired or just al Qaeda inspired.

HARLOW: Right.

BROWN: It could be a variation, a combination of these different terrorist groups. And this could be our new reality. But clearly, Poppy, there were indications that Syed Farook was radicalized. We heard it from the father and now the more investigators dig into his background, they see that he did look into reaching, you know, overseas terrorist groups that, you know, that the wife had pledged her allegiance to al Baghdadi. The FBI has said there were no trip wires that they hit or no red flags that were missed, but that process is still ongoing and those questions are still there, whether the FBI missed something.

But also, Poppy, the question is being raised, why didn't the father, who knew his son followed al Baghdadi, or why didn't the mother, who loved with them in this - this house with all these bombs, why didn't they speak up to law enforcement? The mother has said she didn't know her son was radicalized. But I can tell you the FBI is asking that question and so often in these cases they say it's the people close to them who see they're radicalized and it's important for them to speak up.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Later in the hour, we'll talk about sort of the legal obligation where that line is where they have to speak up.

But what's fascinating to me is sort of part of their operation seemed sloppy in that some of these homemade pipe bombs didn't work, et cetera. They had this just homemade bomb lab, if you will, in their - their home. But yet digitally, they covered their tracks incredibly well. That's what your sources say, right?

BROWN: They do. Yes, they actually said, look, they did a pretty good job of erasing their digital footprint. And we know they smashed their cell phones with a hammer and threw them away in the garbage can. The hard drive was apparently destroyed and other electronics. Clearly they didn't want to leave behind a calling card or any sort of footprint here and they were able to cover their tracks pretty well.

But, Poppy, I will tell you, that the FBI is very - has some very sophisticated tools to retrieve electronics. Though this information is not easily accessible, there is a layered approach to this kind of thing and they will not stop trying until they're able to retrieve as much as they can.

HARLOW: No question. And you'll bring it to us as soon as you know from your sources. Pamela, thank you very much for all of that on the investigation, the developments.

[14:05:03] I want to go straight now to CNN's Paul Vercammen. He is in Redlands, California. That's where, obviously, the house is where they found this homemade bomb lab. The investigation certainly expanding.

Today, what are they looking at? Because I know a few days ago, when I was there with you, Paul, they'd already gone through the garage in question.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And so what one neighbor called the bomb factory behind me is now closed down and thee FBI confident they got everything out of here that it wanted. One place the investigation has expanded to is the childhood friend and neighbor of Farook. This neighbor is the person who in San Diego purchased the rifles that were used in the massacres. His name is Enrique Marquez.

And the FBI has gone back twice and they did a consensual search of this house to try to determine if any other weapons were purchased by Marquez. And from what we understand, Marquez was so absolutely distraught after hearing about the carnage at the government center, that he checked himself into a mental facility. We also had confirmed that he did not show up for work. So he was traumatized by all this, Poppy, but he indeed is the person who bought the rifles.

HARLOW: What more do we know in terms of - about Tashfeen Malik, the wife, because we have learned about her background as a student, right? She was a pharmacy student when she was in Pakistan. What else do we know about her time at university?

VERCAMMEN: Well, from what we understand, she was a rather good student. And we had a chance to speak with one of her professors, Dr. Hussain, and here's what he had to say about her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SYED NISAR HUSSAIN, PHARMACY PROFESSOR OF TASHFEEN MALIK: She was very (INAUDIBLE) with the girls and this is our non-lofty (ph) class. And all the girls are sitting together. And she is very humble and very cool and calm. And very good in study.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: So Malik and Farook come into the country together. We have that picture where she is now on her way to try and become an American citizen by virtue of a fiance visa. And the rule is, you're supposed to get married about 90 days after that, that way you don't have some sort of phony or arranged marriage. And one immigration official - one federal official saying in so many words, she was clean as a whistling. So her record, no criminal record, didn't raise any alarm bells and certainly in this neighborhood behind me, in this townhouse, with its shared wall on the right and shared wall with a neighbor on the left, nobody saw anything that made them believe that this couple was in here amassing an arsenal.

And one more thing I'd like to add. His job is a coveted job in California, a government job, a county job. You go through the process, you get great benefits and if you stay with it for a while, it promises a great nesting. None of anything what they did raised any alarm bells here, Poppy.

HARLOW: That's the scariest part, right, killers living among us with zero red flags for authorities to see.

Paul Vercammen, thank you, as always.

Also want to update you on really chilling new details about a man with a knife who stabbed two people on Saturday night in London in a subway station. He reportedly screamed, "this is for Syria." A witness says the attacker tried to behead one of the victims. What we know now, he's 29 years old. His name, Muhaydin Mire. He made his first court appearance today on charges of attempted murder. We have just learned that he is set to appear in court again on Friday. That as dramatic video of his takedown surfaces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop it!

Drop it, you fool!

Drop it!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank with me now from London.

You know, where to begin with this? Again, something in broad daylight, an attack like this, what he reportedly yelled, "this is for Syria." Now we're hearing graphic accounts of what happened. What do you know about how this unfolded?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, those accounts are truly disturbing because he wrestled a member of the public to the ground allegedly and then got his head, held it in his hand, and started sawing on his neck with a sharp knife as if to behead this member of the public. Now he didn't follow through and completely behead him. This person is recovering now in a stable condition in hospital. Some members of the public started shouting at him, distracting him to a certain degree. It then took several attempts to Taser him by the police before they were able to restrain him and take him into custody.

Now, on his cell phone they found ISIS images, including ISIS flags. They found pictures and content relating to the Paris attacks and also the San Bernardino attacks. So it's quite possible he was inspired, he was a copycat after those attacks we saw play out in California.

[14:10:06] This appears to be an ISIS-inspired attack in the United Kingdom at a time when there's heightened concern here with the ISIS threat. Both ISIS directed and ISIS inspired. In the last year, the prime minister said that there have been seven ISIS-inspired or ISIS- directed plots thwarted in the U.K. HARLOW: Right.

CRUICKSHANK: There was that vote in the House of Commons last week to authorize airstrikes in Syria and this appears perhaps to be a reaction to that, Poppy.

HARLOW: And also, Paul, I want to ask you about some numbers we just got into us here at CNN. A U.S. official saying the latest estimate is that coalition airstrikes have killed more than 23,000 ISIS fighters since the war began. Can you help - help us put that into context, 23,000. How significant or insignificant is that number in the broader picture?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, they're making inroads. There's no doubt about that. They have taken out some senior figures in the group, including the number two. The problem is, ISIS keeps on replenishing its ranks. There's still foreign fighters going in. And it still controls an enormous amount of territory in Syria and in Iraq, but also now increasingly in Libya. And that give it a certain amount of legitimacy and persuasive powers. But when it comes to its followers around the world that they really do believe that they're sort of divine tail winds behind ISIS, because of all its success, and that makes them want to carry out attacks in its name as we saw play out in California, in London, in Paris, and elsewhere, unfortunately, over the last year.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Paul Cruickshank, thank you very much. Again, another disturbing attack over the weekend in London.

Investigators not able to look at the couple's phone records for many years. Why is that? Because just four days before the brutal massacre in San Bernardino, part of the NSA's controversial program ended. How it impacts the race for answers.

Also, a neighbor reportedly says she didn't tell authorities about the couple's suspicious behavior because she was afraid of being called a racist. We're going to talk about that legal line. How far can you go, how far should you go?

And breaking moments ago, the city of Chicago releasing the video of another police deadly shooting resulting in the death of an African- American man. This time the prosecutor will not press charges against the officer. The man's mother responds live in just moments. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:50] HARLOW: Another video has just been released showing Chicago police using deadly force against the man running away from officers into a public park. We want to show you the police dash camera video of that shooting just released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) a male black running southbound on King, (INAUDIBLE) sweatshirt, black pants. (INAUDIBLE) you've got to be there.

(INAUDIBLE) with the foot chase, you've got to be there.

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here's Johnson running around the corner, coming in the direction of Officer Hooper (ph) and Monty (ph). This is Officer Giliana (ph). She's drawing her weapon. This is Officer Hernandez in the back seat. (INAUDIBLE). Here's Johnson running behind. You can see the flash of a - shots coming from Hernandez. And Officer Hernandez was the officer closest to Johnson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: After releasing the video, Cook County's top prosecutor, Anita Alvarez, said she would not file charges against the officer who shot and killed 25-year-old Ronald Johnson. It happened in October of last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANITA ALVAREZ, COOK COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY: It is our determination that no criminal charges will be filed against Officer Hernandez in connection with the shooting death of Ronald Johnson. The totality of the evidence establishes the following. At the time of the shooting, Mr. Johnson was armed with a handgun. Mr. Johnson had run from an area where shots had recently been fired. Mr. Johnson resisted arrest and Mr. Johnson ran into a public park and towards an occupied police vehicle that was arriving on the scene in that park.

Based upon an objective review of the evidence and the law, we have determined that the prosecution could not establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the actions of Officer Hernandez were not reasonable and permissible under the laws of the state of Illinois.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right, let's dig deeper on this. I want to bring in CNN national correspondent Ryan Young in Chicago, also Washington bureau chief for "The Chicago Sun-Times," Lynn Sweet, and civil rights attorney Charles Coleman, who's with me here in New York.

Ryan, to you first.

This video comes just days after Johnson's mother was live on this show with Brooke and she demanded that this video be released. She said her son was murdered. She said that the gun was planted on him. Walk us through what this video now shows.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've seen the video a few times and I can honestly tell you, we went to that lawyer's office for Ronald Johnson. They are claiming that that gun was planted afterwards. That there's no way, they believe, that he could have been shot in the back and had his - the gun not fly out of his hand. They kept saying adamantly that once people saw this video, they would feel the same way about the other shooting. Obviously everyone's been focusing on Laquan McDonald.

So now with this video out, and you heard how they just laid this entire case out from the 9/11 tapes, from the video, from the police perspective. That's what so many people in this community wanted. They wanted the transparency.

[14:20:03] Of course, this case happened eight days before the Laquan McDonald case and now it's been over 400 days since this has happened. So this family desperately wanted to see this officer charged. We now know that's not going to happen. The initial response so far from some people have been, they've been clapping for Alvarez in terms of having her show this video and having her explain everything. There are other people who still believe there's some issues with the police report that was placed into evidence as well. The fact that they don't believe that the tape showed that he turned and tried to fire at officers at all. So there's still questions about this entire case. But I can honestly tell you, at this point, the initial reaction to the video has been one that seems to support what Alvarez has said all along, that she will not charge this officer.

HARLOW: All right, and it is important to note there's only so much that we can see on the video. We don't see some of the actions before you see him crossing the street or some of them when he is off screen there.

Charles, to you. From a legal perspective -

YOUNG: And that's it, it's not very clear.

HARLOW: Exactly. Exactly, Ryan.

From a legal perspective, is it legal for an officer to shoot someone who is running away from them, because that we can see, but who also, according to police, defied numerous orders to stop and drop the weapon?

CHARLES COLEMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: It is not. Now, for that officer or for those officers to instruct that individual to stop and him to continue to keep going and not obey their orders, at that point he has resisted arrest. However, he hasn't done so in a forceful fashion that would automatically require or allow for those officers to use deadly force.

HARLOW: But isn't it - isn't it also an officer's job to protect someone running - protect the public. So if someone is running with a gun, they don't know where that individual is going to run, who they may or may not shoot at. Does that give them the right to shoot that person?

COLEMAN: You know, Poppy, I think that's one of the things that makes this case a little bit more interesting then - or - and less straight forward than the Laquan McDonald situation, is that those officers, at least by appearance of the very short video which we've acknowledged, doesn't show the entire incident. Those officers may struggle to articulate what the immediate threat to any public safety or public harm was.

Now, granted, as you said, he's running in public. He runs into a park. We don't know who was in the park. We don't know whether there was anyone else in the park. Clearly it does not seem as though there's an immediate threat to those officers' safety because he's running away from them and he's shot in the back. But I think that that's the central issue that this turns on is, if you're going to say that you acted because you were trying to support public safety, what is the public - what is the threat to public safety that you can articulate was immediate.

HARLOW: Lynn, to you. I mean you have covered Chicago and this topic extensively. The video comes out just hours after U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch announces this wide ranging DOJ investigation of the Chicago P.D. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Department of Justice has opened an investigation into whether the Chicago Police Department has engaged in a pattern or practice of violations of the Constitution or federal law. Specifically, we will examine a number of issues related to the Chicago Police Department's use of force, including its use of deadly force, racial, ethnic and other disparities in its use of force, and its accountability mechanisms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right, so just to give some context for our viewers here, Lynn, we're talking also about the wake of an officer in Chicago P.D., a different officer in a different case, charged with first degree murder after he shot and killed 17-year-old Laquan McDonald 16 times in another incident in 2014. What strikes you the most, Lynn, given that the DOJ has opened this investigation today?

LYNN SWEET, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": Well, what is the consequential thing is that the practices of the Chicago Police Department, that had been very controversial in a variety of cases through the years, Poppy, are now going to go under the microscope of an independent entity that's going to look at policies and data and practices. And whatever the remedy is in what could be a months-long investigation, the city needs to agree with it, whatever the remedy is, and the enforcement mechanism is going to be a federal judge, not Mayor Rahm Emanuel, not the city council.

So a lot now is going to be put on the table. The Johnson videotape you showed, the Laquan McDonald tape, which I think was a lot clearer. Also, one other quick thing. The city released late Friday night the police reports backing the -

HARLOW: Right.

SWEET: Talking about the incident - and, again, this is the video you do not see everyone (ph) - HARLOW: So I want to - I want to -

SWEET: And it showed the cops, you know, fabric -

HARLOW: Right.

SWEET: Told a different story than what was on the tape.

HARLOW: Let's talk about that for our viewers who may not have heard that part of it yet. And as I do, I want to show you the video of the dash cam video of the Laquan McDonald deadly shooting. You see him running down the street here.

[14:25:03] SWEET: Right.

HARLOW: Watch this as we talk. What you're talking about, Lynn, is the fact that late Friday night what was revealed were the accounts that police officers on the scene gave to their superiors in Chicago P.D. about the shooting. Six of them agreed with the officer, who's now charged with first degree murder, saying that Laquan was approaching them. One of them even saying he believed McDonald was attacking them. And that is not what we see on the videotape.

SWEET: And all of this is going to be part of the civil rights investigation that the Justice Department is going to carry out. And just so our viewers don't get confused, this is going to be a second investigation. There's a long running federal state joint investigation of the criminal action that resulted in the - that we don't know the outcome of that yet. We do know that the state's attorney charged the police officer.

But all this to kind of sum up means that the trust and confidence in the people in Chicago has been shaken. There's protests in the streets. I think there may be even be more, at least one more videotape of a police shooting coming out. So we'll be hearing from Mayor Emanuel at the top of the hour in city hall in Chicago to hear what he has to say to it. He had first resisted the Justice Department probe that was launched today.

HARLOW: All right, I want you guys to all stay with me. I got to get a break in here. But after the break, we are waiting to hear from Ronald Johnson's mother live. We will bring that to you next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)