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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Chicago Police Shootings; Chicago Police Investigation. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 07, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We've got breaking news this hour. Right now we are waiting for a live press conference to get underway. You can see the room in action now. In is Chicago where the Cook County state's attorney is planning to announce the results of an investigation into a fatal shooting that happened last year.

I know what you are thinking, but it's not that shooting. It is strikingly similar to that shooting. But this is a shooting that happened one week earlier. It involves 25-year-old Ronald Johnson. Get ready to know that name more intimately. Ronald Johnson was shot and killed after allegedly pointing a weapon at police officers. But his family does not believe the police account of what happened in his shooting and they have been calling for the are release of, you guessed it, dash cam video for a year.

So, eight days later, the story you are intimately familiar with now, 17-year-old Laquan McDonald, he was shot 16 times by the police. That disturbing video contradicting police reports of what happened that night. Also, it took one year to see that video.

The attorney general of the United States, Loretta Lynch, announced this morning a federal investigation into the entire Chicago Police Department after the uproar that followed the videos release of the shooting of Laquan. Of course, again, a year later.

I want to bring in Ryan Young, our correspondent who is standing by live in Chicago.

These stories sound so remarkably familiar, but get me up to speed on this second story, this second video, and now yet a gathering of reporters in this second incident.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: well, here we go again, Ashleigh. Look, a lot of people in Chicago are calling to see this video. We're told that the video will be out later this afternoon. People are bracing themselves for what they will see.

We went and talked to the lawyer of Ronald Johnson's family just last week, had an intimate conversation with him just about what he saw in that video, and I'll explain it to you just like this. Eight days before Laquan McDonald was shot this shooting happened. And what we're told is, someone fired into a car and that Johnson got out and he started running. He tried to get away from police officers and he was shot. Apparently, that's all caught on videotape.

Now, here's where the stories differ. The police department says the young man had a gun in his hand. The family doesn't believe - and they've watched the video themselves - they do not believe that the gun would have stayed in his hands if he was shot. They don't believe that gun was in his hand. They believe the gun was placed there afterwards. But they have been calling for the public to be able to see this video for month because they want people to be able to see it and judge for themselves. Well, that didn't happen. We know they were going to court this Thursday to get the video released, just like in the other case. And now we know the city is going to release the video.

Now, there have been all kinds of rumors about this case for quite some time, but there's been some similarities involved in this. One, the audio is not working in this video as well. So the lawyer saying, how can that happen again, and why is the city taking so long to release this video? So these are all things that everyone in this city's watching, especially with the fact that now the DOJ says they are going to step in. A lot of finger pointing toward Anita Alvarez, the state's attorney here, people wanting her to step down after the police chief was told to step down. So this is what the people here in the city want to see some action and they want to see some change.

BANFIELD: OK, Ryan, help - help walk me through sort of the logistics of where we are in this story as we await Anita Alvarez and we are likely to hear from that state's attorney shortly regarding the death of Ronald Johnson.

The officer involved in this particular shooting, Officer George Hernandez, is it the same story effectively all over again? Has he been working in a - a certain capacity, and paid capacity? What do we know about Officer Hernandez and his current circumstance?

YOUNG: Well - well, we know he has not been charged just yet and we - and I believe he is back on the street at this point. From what has been filed so far, he has been in and talked with the attorney of the Johnson family. He says the - the gun was in another hand, he was running away - running back toward the officer and that's when he fired a couple of shots to him. He had a gun in his hand. That's what he has told the police department. That's what he said during the deposition. So people want to see this video to see what actually played out.

We're also told when the police car rolls up, that the camera actually turns away after the body falls. The lawyer contends, once people see this video, they're going to be enraged about this, and that's why we're all waiting to see what happens next because, obviously, when you see the video of Laquan McDonald shot seven - 16 times, that definitely got things fired up around here. But they believe this video is going to have the same kind of effect in this city.

BANFIELD: OK, Ryan, I want you to stand by, if you will. We're just watching what's happening live in a building behind you in Chicago. We're awaiting this news conference.

[12:05:03] There had been some varied reports about what the state's attorney would announce. The results of an investigation is one thing, possible charges against an officer is another entirely. So, obviously, everyone's very, very interested to find out what will be yielded at this news conference.

So it's a great opportunity, since Ryan just brought up the shooting of Laquan McDonald, as we await what happens in this particular shooting of Ronald Johnson, the U.S. attorney says that failing to hold the police accountable for misconduct creates profound consequences for communities. This was Loretta Lynch's announcement of the decision to investigate the entire Chicago Police Department with regard to what happened in the Laquan McDonald shooting. Have a listen to what she had to say just a few hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Department of Justice has opened an investigation into whether the Chicago Police Department has engaged in a pattern or practice of violations of the Constitution or federal law. Specifically, we will examine a number of issues related to the Chicago Police Department's use of force, including its use of deadly force, racial, ethnic and other disparities in its use of force and its accountability mechanisms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That's Loretta Lynch just a few hours ago making that announcement. Chicago has been a very busy place but that means Washington also has a very busy job.

I want to bring in our justice correspondent Evan Perez.

You know, Evan, sometimes I wonder how the Justice Department has enough staff given the number of times I have watched this announcement made regarding a police department in the United States that's got a full pattern and practice investigation being launched.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Ashleigh, we do know that those resources are certainly being strained. I mean this is a department that has launched more - double the number of these types of investigations of police around the country over the last five years compared to the previous five years. We have over 20 of them that have been done, there were seven of them that are still being done right now. There are 17 departments that are under some kind of court-ordered agreement that the Justice Department - that resulted from these types of investigations. So we know that there's a lot of this going on.

And just to give you a quick sense of how these work. You know, they're going to go in and they're going to look at the statistics to see, you know, whether or not African-Americans are more likely to be stopped, more likely to be shot, more likely to have these complaints, just be done away with. We know that the mechanism there in Chicago seems to be one that is broken, and that - and that no matter what people complain about with the police department, 97 percent of those complaints just - nothing happens to the - to the officer in those cases. So that's what the Justice Department is going to be looking at and they're going to try to see whether or not this violates the constitutional rights of people there in Chicago.

BANFIELD: So, Evan, my assumption is, and I should never assume because you know what happens, but my assumption is, is that Loretta Lynch and her team new full well what was about to break open regarding the shooting of Ronald Johnson because it's not a secret. I mean this has been litigated. There have been lawsuits launched, freedom of information, civil action regarding the video and regarding what happened to Ronald Johnson. So Loretta Lynch's DOJ had to know that this was also in the offing. Do you think that was impetus to launch this investigation or is she strictly sighting what happened to Laquan was enough for us to go in on a patterns and practices investigation?

PEREZ: Oh, I think, Ashleigh, I think it's fair to say that they were aware of not only this, but apparently there are other cases that have raised a lot of concern there in Chicago. And so it - it was the - the totality of all of this evidence. And it's clear that they believe that this is a big problem. This is one of the largest police departments in this country. And certainly they - the Justice Department has one problem here is that, you know, what people want is justice and what they want is for officers who have done wrong to be brought up on charges. The problem is that that usually is a state function because they're talking about homicide charges. That's state law. And the federal government really oversees civil rights investigations and that's - that's really, again, it takes a long time. It's not the same jurisdiction. And what the Justice Department is facing is that we have these police departments around the country that have severe problems and everybody seems to be turning to the Justice Department to try to fix it. What they want is states and cities to fix their police departments, to take the hint, right, of 20 of these investigations launched over the last couple of years. They want these cities and states to fix these police departments, not have to have a very small section in the civil rights division come in there and try to fix it.

BANFIELD: It's a lot of complicated stuff. You have to know a lot about the law to try to make heads or tail of the job that they have ahead of them.

PEREZ: Right.

BANFIELD: The legal teams that are amassing both on the part of Chicago and the DOJ.

Can you stand by for a moment. I'm still watching the live mic that's beside you and the image here. The Chicago live shot has the state's attorney news conference up and we've been given some notice that it should be happening in the next few minutes but that gives me an opportunity to fit in a quick break, but not before leaving you with this.

[12:10:15] What's about to happen in that room, whether charges or no charges are going to be announced, what effect is that going to have on the community? What effect is that going to have on the Department of Justice and the work that it now has to do? What effect is that going to have on two families that say they want justice for their dead children? Very complicate. A lot of answers coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I want to take you live now to Chicago where the Cook County state's attorney, Anita Alvarez, is about to take to those live microphones to talk about the investigation into the shooting death of Ronald Johnson, a young 25-year-old man who was shot, and a video that has yet to be released, one year-old, is much at issue here. Let's listen in. And I do want to warn you, if the video shows, we are going to delay it in case there is immeasurable violence.

[12:15:11] ANITA ALVAREZ, COOK COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY: All right. Good morning.

I am here today to announce the results of the Cook County state's attorney's professional standards review of the 2014 shooting of Ronald Johnson by and on-duty Chicago police officer.

Mr. Johnson was shot and killed in the early morning hours of October 12, 2014, by Chicago Police Officer George Hernandez. Officer Hernandez was one of multiple officers who were responding to the emergency 911 calls of gunshots being fired near the area of 53rd Street and King Drive on the city's south side.

Earlier that evening, Mr. Johnson and three acquaintances attended a party in an apartment building at this location. After leaving the party, the four men got into a vehicle and drove away from the scene, and Mr. Johnson being seated behind the driver of the car in the rear passenger seat of that automobile. So he was in the rear driver's - he was behind the driver in the rear passenger seat. As they - I'm sorry, in the rear seat of the car.

As they drove away, an unknown offender or offenders shot multiple times at the car occupied by the four men, shattering the rear window of the vehicle and causing other damage to the car. None of the occupants of the car were struck by the bullets that damaged this vehicle. Without calling 911 themselves to report what had occurred or driving to the nearest police station, the four men drove a short distance away and then returned to the scene where they had - where they had just been shot at. They then parked the car and exited that vehicle on foot.

By this time, Chicago police officers were en route to the scene in response to the multiple emergency 911 calls from citizens reporting that shots had been fired in that area. The first two officers that arrived on the scene encountered one of the men who had returned to the scene with Mr. Johnson and the others. Those officers were in the process of speaking to the driver of the car to investigate the shooting.

At the same time, other responding officers observed Ronald Johnson near that very same location. Those officers saw that Mr. Johnson was carrying a gun and ordered him to stop and drop the weapon. Mr. Johnson did not comply with the officer's orders and instead ran from the officers while holding the gun.

He initially ran from 53rd Street, turning south on to King Drive, where he encountered the original two officer who were on the scene and speaking with the other occupant of the vehicle. These two officers were observed - observed Mr. Johnson with a gun and they drew their weapons and ordered Johnson to stop and drop the weapon. Mr. Johnson slowed down and indicated that he would comply with the officers' orders. One of the officers re-holstered his weapon to free up his hands to place Johnson under arrest, but Johnson was able to break free of this officer's grasp and the officer fell to the ground.

Another occupant from the vehicle confirms that he had heard police yell out that Johnson had a gun. At that point, Mr. Johnson turned away from those two officers and began to flee in a diagonal direction, crossing King Drive while still holding on to this weapon. Officer Hernandez was one of three officers who had responded to the scene in an unmarked police cruiser, and the three officers were exiting their vehicle when Johnson ran behind their car and toward the nearby Washington Park towards another police unit. At this time, Officer Hernandez began pursuit of Mr. Johnson and then fired five shots. Two of those shots struck Mr. Johnson, one in the back of his right knee, the second shot entered just below Mr. Johnson's right armpit and exited the body near the left eye socket. Mr. Johnson was pronounced dead soon after being transported to the hospital from the scene.

My office has prepared a detailed, written analysis of this case, which we will provide to all of you here today, as well as to the public. This analysis provides the specific facts and details of this investigation, as well as the legal analysis that goes into a charging decision in a case of this nature. We have also compiled a video presentation that including 911 calls, Chicago police radio traffic exchange, and the dash cam video footage that captures relevant - I'm sorry, that captures relevant events as they unfolded very quickly that night.

[12:20:00] Before we give you that video presentation, there are a couple of points that I need to make. First of all, the investigation into this shooting was conducted by Chicago's Independent Police Review Authority. IPRA investigates these police shootings. We are then asked to review cases. IPRA is the investigative partner - or investigative agency on this case. To be clear, IPRA is an independent entity, and I have no authority over their process or their pace of their investigations.

The dash cam video we will show you shortly was initially presented by IPRA to my office on October 31, 2014. Along with some initial reports and documents relating to this investigation. IPRA ultimately provided all CPD in car camera videos, as well as video from a nearby senior citizen center, and copies of depositions of officers and citizens that have been taken in a corresponding civil case involving this shooting.

It is also important for you to know that my office shared this video with the FBI in November of 2014 after having received it. after reviewing the video and in the Ronald Johnson case the FBI informed us that they would not participate in this - in the investigation moving forward. At that point IPRA remained the designated investigative agency that would handle that - this case. And that is standard procedure. IPRA investigates police shootings.

From a legal perspective, in reviewing this matter for potential criminal charges, the legal question in this case is not whether officer Hernandez shot Mr. Johnson and killed him. Those facts are not in dispute. The legal questions are, number one, is there sufficient evidence that exists to meet the legal burden of proof required to bring charges in this case? And number two, in using deadly force, did Officer Hernandez act reasonably under the law?

Before we go further, I want to introduce Assistant State's Attorney Lynn McCarthy. She is the head of my professional standards unit that handles cases of police misconduct and police shootings. We have prepared a detailed description of the facts and circumstances that we uncovered during the investigation, along with the dash cam video that Assistant State's Attorney McCarthy will now present for all of you.

Lynn.

LYNN MCCARTHY, ASSISTANT STATE'S ATTORNEY: On October 12th of 2014, Ronald Johnson was at a party at 53rd and King Drive. At approximately 12:30 a.m., he left with Individuals A, B, and C, in a car that was driven by Individual A. The driver was Individual A, the front passenger was Individual B, the back seat passenger was Individual C and Ronald Johnson, as the state's attorney said was in the back seat positioned immediately behind the driver.

As they left that location of approximately 53rd and King Drive, shots were fired into the vehicle. No one inside the vehicle was struck, but there was, however, extensive damage that was done to the vehicle. These are photographs that were taken by the forensic investigators after the shooting. As you can see, the rear window was shot out. There was also damage done to the front window, as well as to the side mirrors.

While Individual A drove away from the location, he indicated that he heard the sound of a cocking of a pistol coming from Ronald Johnson, who was seated directly behind him. Rather than report the incident, Individual A indicated that he received instructions to drive around and return back to the same location where those shots had come from. This map indicates an area of where the shots were fired. A relative location is the TRC (ph) senior village that's located at 356 East 53rd Street. The individuals had been parked on East 53rd Street. This is the location where the party was at 53rd and King Drive.

This is Calumet (ph) Avenue, and they indicated that as they proceed on 53rd Street, the shots were fired as they passed Calumet Avenue. They proceed along 53rd Street to approximately Prairie Avenue and then headed northbound on Prairie Avenue to 51st Street. Rather than head to the nearby second district police station at 51st and Wentworth to report the incident, instead they traveled eastbound to King Drive. Along King Drive, back to 53rd Street, to the same area where they had been fired upon.

[12:25:12] At that time, Individual A dropped off Ronald Johnson, Individual B and Individual C and the three individuals walked out of the vehicle and in the vicinity. Individual A then parked his vehicle on King Drive facing southbound. As indicated, they made no reports to the police about those shots being fired. They did not go to the police station. And, in fact, Individual A reported that he avoided a passing police car as they drove around that location because, as he indicated, he believed that Ronald Johnson had a pistol on him based on the noise that he heard. As he indicated, it was the racking of a pistol noise.

After the shots had been fired, there were numerous calls placed by citizens to 911. We will be providing to you a disk where we have burned all of those calls on the disk. At that point we're going to play samples of some of those calls to give you a perspective of what information the officers had, particularly Officer Hernandez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: October 12, 2014, 0 hours, 34 minutes and 34 seconds.

DISPATCHER: Chicago police emergency (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, there was some heavy gunfire out here. In front of 346 East 53rd. They're (ph) shooting again. (INAUDIBLE).

DISPATCHER: OK. How many shots do you figure?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five. Because there were four of them right now (INAUDIBLE) the one (INAUDIBLE).

DISPATCHER: Did you see anyone?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what, three guys with hoods just walked past this building. They were looking at the building. But they walked on - (INAUDIBLE) 52nd (INAUDIBLE) this building when you come around the corner and (INAUDIBLE) I don't know (INAUDIBLE).

DISPATCHER: Do you know what (INAUDIBLE) about?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They - they - they came around this building (INAUDIBLE) King Drive. (INAUDIBLE). I wouldn't be surprised if (INAUDIBLE).

DISPATCHER: All right. (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) because the cops are always here (INAUDIBLE) the building, but I don't see one.

DISPATCHER: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

DISPATCHER: (INAUDIBLE). UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: October 12, 2014, 0 hours, 34 minutes and 44 seconds.

DISPATCHER: (INAUDIBLE). Hello, 911.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello!

DISPATCHER: 911.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. (INAUDIBLE) two guys outside shooting. I'm at (INAUDIBLE) East 54th (ph) Street. (INAUDIBLE) -

DISPATCHER: You say (INAUDIBLE) Street?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 346 (ph) East (INAUDIBLE) Street.

DISPATCHER: (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

DISPATCHER: All right, what's going on here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The guys that (ph) were (ph) shooting.

DISPATCHER: How many -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were shooting!

DISPATCHER: How many shots were fired?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were two guys that took (ph) - they were shooting. I don't know how many shots, but (INAUDIBLE) shooting.

DISPATCHER: You saw them shooting?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I can see they were running down the alley now.

DISPATCHER: All right. You saw the two guys shooting?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I -

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pardon me?

DISPATCHER: Were they white, black or Hispanic?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're black.

DISPATCHER: All right. And what were they wearing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE). That's all I could see.

DISPATCHER: All right. Did you see which way they went?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: East (ph).

DISPATCHER: (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They went down the alley.

DISPATCHER: (INAUDIBLE) the alley?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They went down the alley.

DISPATCHER: All right, I'll let them know. Hold on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE). I'm in the TRC (ph) senior building. And they went east of the building and down the alley.

DISPATCHER: OK. (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCCARTHY: That call came from the senior - the TRC senior building that was circled in read that I pointed out. Now the third call actually comes later on after the shots are fired by Officer Hernandez, but it refers to the shots that were fired earlier in this incident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: October 12, 2014, 0 hours, 42 minutes and one second.

DISPATCHER: Chicago 911.

[12:29:59] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. My name is (DELETED). I live at (DELETED). The is the fourth time in about 45 minutes that there's shooting out front.

DISPATCHER: OK. How many shots did you hear?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now it's just four or five.