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Trump Proposes Muslim Travel Ban; K-1 Visa Process; FBI: San Bernardino Killers Frequented Gun Ranges; Donald Trump Doubles Down. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 08, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:03] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): We're letting people into our country. We don't know who they are. We have people here right now that are getting $28,000 miraculously, over the last little while, deposited in their account that they're using for very sinister purposes. There are, like these two, these -- this husband and wife, this horrendous, horrible husband and wife. You have many other people like that in this country. You have many other people that are having checks deposited in their account to do destruction. And we have to find out what we're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: So I want to bring in now Imam Sohaib Sultan. He is the chaplain and Muslim life coordinator at Princeton University.

Thank you so much for coming on. I'm really anxious to hear your thoughts about this and what you think about this response from Trump supporters embracing Trump's remarks. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIHAD AWAD, CAIR FOUNDER: This is outrageous. Coming from someone who wants to assume the highest office in the land. It is reckless and simply un-American. Donald Trump sounds more like a leader of a lynch mob than a great nation like ours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, obviously, that was CAIR -- the reaction from the Muslim community. But on the other side of this is this dichotomy of Trump supporters cheering. What is your reaction to the fact that so many of his supporters agree with this idea to ban Muslims from coming into the U.S.?

IMAM SOHAIB SULTAN, CHAPLAIN & MUSLIM LIFE COORDINATOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Well, I think, you know, in every time, whenever there's a crisis, you'll see the best of human beings and you'll see the worst of human beings. And I think that people who buy into a culture of fear are really increasing the culture of chaos and leading to really disastrous consequences, some of which we probably haven't even seen yet.

BROWN: But do you think that they have a right to be fearful in the wake of the terrorist attacks, what we saw in Paris and elsewhere and with ISIS?

SULTAN: Well, obviously, these are -- these are times in which people have every right to be afraid because there's a lot of violence happening in the world and a lot of violence happening within our own society. But if we look at what's happening in America, we know that gun violence happens just about every single day in this country and 99 percent of the time it's not perpetrated by Muslims, it's perpetrated by any number of other group of people. So the problem is violence, the problem is evil instincts within human beings and that's what we need to fight against, whether it's through philosophy or through law enforcement. But, you know, casting the blame on an entire group of people, whether they belong to a particular religion or culture, is just buying into the worst instincts that human beings may have.

BROWN: Are you concerned that these comments could perhaps fuel a backlash against Muslim Americans?

SULTAN: Well, they already are. And, you know, the culture of Islamaphobia, the rhetoric of Islamaphobia has been consistently part of the American political narrative since 9/11. And just about every single time there's an election cycle, we find that that rhetoric is heightened. And we've seen that mosques have been burned down. We've seen individual Muslims attacked. And, you know, there have been, obviously, very terrible consequences to this type of rhetoric.

But, you know, one of the things that I really want to point out is that, as Americans, we are better than that. And the number of stories of people who have reached out to Muslims, who have gone with the better instincts within themselves, is really what makes me proud to be an American and I think what we should be focusing on. I think Donald Trump and his supporters will be in the dust bin of history and they will not gain much traction past a few months from now.

BROWN: But you can't deny he -- he is -- he's the front runner right now in the Republican presidential race. What was your reaction when you heard his remarks yesterday, the fact that he wants to impose this travel ban on Muslims?

[09:35:13] SULTAN: You know, what I would say is that, you know, ISIS is to Islam what Donald Trump is to American values, a complete distortion of everything that we as a country and society stand for. And I think that what Donald Trump is arguing for is something that just buys into fear and just really is creating a situation that is going to cause enmity and fear and suspicion between people and that's not what a leader does. A leader brings people together. And so I think he's clearly disqualified himself from being the president of the United States. But it -- you know, it's not just Donald Trump. I know like a lot of

Republican candidates are jumping on Trump about his latest comments, but a lot of the Republican candidates have really been using very similar type of rhetoric throughout this election cycle and they stand to be held responsible for their wild claims and their ugly rhetoric as well.

BROWN: Ima Sohaib Sultan, appreciate your thoughts.

SULTAN: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: And still to come right here in NEWSROOM, Donald Trump creates a new firestorm, calling for a ban on all Muslims entering the U.S. How the GOP frontrunner is firing back this morning.

We'll be right back.

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[09:40:50] BROWN: It's being described as a tirade to exploit people's fears. Republican frontrunner Donald Trump says keep Muslims out. This morning he's defending his plan to ban all Muslims from traveling to America. In Trump's eyes, that ban would stop terrorists, like San Bernardino shooter Tashfeen Malik from getting in.

We now know Malik entered the U.S. on a K-1 visa, also known as a fiance visa, but there were no red flags at the time. The Obama administration is now reviewing that visa process.

And with me now to better understand all of this, the K-1 visa and everything else, is immigration attorney Maurice Goldman.

Thank you for coming on, Mr. Goldman. We have a lot to discuss on this. But first I want to get your take on what Trump has said. What is your take on this notion of an antimuslim America?

MAURICE GOLDMAN, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Sure. First of all, thank you for having me on, Pamela.

You know, what Mr. Trump is saying is taking xenophobia to a level that we have not seen in modern history. I find it to be vile. I don't think there's any place for this sort of rhetoric in our current dialogue. And I think it really does ultimately harm the United States and puts us in a position where we could be perpetuating more hatred and potentially more violence.

BROWN: Let's talk about Tashfeen Malik because she was born in Pakistan, lived in Saudi Arabia, and she obtained this fiance visa to come to the U.S. And then, a year and a half later, she launches a terrorist attack here and now we're finding out from my sources that it appears she was radicalized before ever coming to the U.S. That seems like a huge national security gap. Did authorities miss something here or is the system just not strong enough?

GOLDMAN: Well, what I've been saying since this incident occurred last week is that we have to take a step back. We have to wait for more information to be released regarding the vetting process that went on when Ms. Malik went to get her visa. The K-1 fiance visa does involve multiple agencies. There are multiple layers of vetting that goes on. That includes background checks based on biometrics data, facial recognition software, name checks. There are interviews that occur. And especially since 9/11, there has been higher levels of scrutiny, especially for individuals who are coming from Muslim countries. The government will look at, you know, where these individuals have traveled over the past five years before entering the United States. So to say that there might have been a security mishap or a gap in security might be jumping the gun.

The other thing I would note, that over the past 25 years, the statistics have demonstrated that over 500,000 K-1 fiance visas have been issued to individuals worldwide who entered the United States, got married and ultimately many of them became permanent residents. And this is the one incident where an individual actually turned around and became a -- unfortunately a terrorist.

BROWN: Yes, I think it's fair to say it's the exception not the norm, but concerning nonetheless.

Maurice Goldman, thank you very much.

And still to come, were red flags missed in San Bernardino? What we just found out about the terrorist couple and what they were doing just days before their killing spree.

[09:45:00]

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BROWN: New information this morning on the San Bernardino killers' past and what they did just days before gunning down 14 people. The FBI says shooter Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik had been radicalized for, quote, "quite some time", on the path to radicalization before ISIS proclaimed itself to be a caliphate. But it's still unclear where and by whom. They frequented local gun ranges, practicing at least once in the week leading up to the massacre.

Dan Simon is in San Bernardino this morning covering the story. Dan, what's the latest?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Pamela. Authorities say no question both of these shooters were radicalized and that, in the days before the shooting, they went to a target range, ostensibly to practice their aim.

We're also learning that when authorities went to the house, they found a pipe bomb-making factory, if you will. They found 19 pipes. That's more, of course, than the 12, the figure originally given. We know this is a very large investigation, Pamela. We're told that 320 pieces of evidence have been collected.

[09:50:02]

There have been 400 interviews. In the meantime, the attorney for the Farook family is speaking out. And once again, he is reiterating the family was unaware of the plot.

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DAVID CHESLEY, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING FAROOK'S FAMILY: Syed and Tashfeen, they were very isolated. And honestly, the family was completely surprised and devastated and have been crying for the past, you know -- since Wednesday, since the time of the incident -- praying about the event. But no one had any knowledge. If anybody would have, they definitely would have done something to stop it.

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SIMON: Well, we are getting some new information about Tashfeen Malik, and this information comes from a former classmate, and it is seemingly at odds with somebody who was a radical. This is what the former classmate tells CNN -- that Tashfeen had a wide circle of friends. She pointed out boys that she thought were cute. That she spoke about social networks and chatting online. That she was not very religious and did not pray five times a day.

Again, Pamela, that does not sound like a radical. But then again, as we have all been reporting, we don't know at what point she became the Islamic terrorist that authorities say she became.

BROWN: And it's challenging to pinpoint exactly when someone becomes radicalized. It's not just like a switch turns on. Dan Simon, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

And up next right here in the NEWSROOM, hear Donald Trump defend his plans to ban Muslims from traveling to the U.S. The entire CNN interview, up next.

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[09:55:49] BROWN: Unhinged, inexperienced, and offensive. Those are the words being used to describe presidential hopeful Donald Trump after his call for all Muslims to be banned from entering the United States.

Despite criticism from both sides of the aisle, Trump is refusing to back down. In fact, he's doubling down on those comments.

Earlier today, Trump spoke with CNN and defended those controversial comments and we want to play that for you in its entirety. And we're going to break it down after with our political analyst. Take a listen.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Mr. Trump, thank you for joining us. Your proposition is plain, ban all Muslims until we can figure out what's going on. People are asking you how you would do that? I say let's put that to the side. It's irrelevant. It's about the concept. You have leaders from your own party in the key states of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, you have galvanized political rivals, all saying this is un-American and extreme and that it makes you a fascist. How do you respond?

TRUMP (on the phone): Well, I totally disagree. You take a look, Chris, at what's going on and it is disgraceful. First of all, you know, people quickly forget World Trade Center one, World Trade Center No. 2. And you take a look at all of the things that are happening, having to do with the problems. Now you have the problem in California where -- and miraculously $28,000 just found, just put into this guy's account, this horrible person, this killer, this maniac, into his account. I have no doubt that we have no choice but to do exactly what I said until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. Because we have a problem in this country. You look at Paris. You look at the carnage that took place in Paris.

CUOMO: Right.

TRUMP: But look at Paris beyond that. Paris is no longer the beautiful, gorgeous city with all -- Paris has a tremendous -- lot of problems. They have areas in Paris that have been radicalized where the police refuse to go in and look at it.

CUOMO: We are well aware.

TRUMP: You look at London, you look at other places.

CUOMO: We are well aware. But Mr. Trump, here's the point.

TRUMP: Wait a minute, Chris. You're well aware. You say that so routinely. You're well aware.

CUOMO: Well because I've been on the ground, I've been in those communities, I've talked to the French authorities.

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TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE) is totally out of control. It's so dangerous.

CUOMO: Well, that's what you say. The police are all over that country right now and they're doing a lot of policing, but more importantly to your point, I would say it's the opposite reality. You see the French being more embracing of people around them, you see them living their lives, you see them refusing to accept fear as a basis for behavior.

Whereas here, what you're doing in the country that is known as a symbol of freedom, is saying we're too afraid to be inclusive. We're going to reject the promise of America and ban an entire religion, even though we need to do things on a case-by-case basis. It seems as though you're acting out of fear, not making us look strong, and rejecting what America is all about. U.K. is not doing this. France isn't doing this.

TRUMP: No, I'm making us look strong, Chris. And don't tell me about Paris. Paris is under tremendous siege. They are absolutely in fear in Paris. Don't tell me Paris is not.

CUOMO: They have heightened awareness. They do not have fear and they're not acting out of it, that's why they're letting in refugees --

TRUMP: Come on. They don't have fear? Of course they have fear.

CUOMO: It's how you behave in that environment.

TRUMP: I have people that have friends living in Paris. They want to leave, they're petrified.

CUOMO: But what are they doing? Are they banning all Muslims?

TRUMP: Well, let's see, maybe they're going to have to. Maybe they're going to have to do something.

CUOMO: That's not even on table.

TRUMP: Look -- I'm talking about a temporary situation until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on, Chris. We have to figure it out.

CUOMO: The timing is irrelevant.

TRUMP: Listen, we had the World Trade Center No. 1, we had World Trade Center No. 2, we had many other things happen. Then the other day we had the California attack where these two animals, they're total animals, they became radicalized and they wanted to do far more damage than that. What's even more disturbing in terms of looking into the future, is other people knew what they were doing. There were pipe bombs laying all over the floor. They had other people that knew what was going on, Chris, and nobody reported it.

[10:00:04]

They used the excuse they didn't want to be racial profilers. They wanted to be politically correct. By the way, the people that said that, I think in their own way, they're guilty. The mother knew, the parents knew. Everybody knew. Now even his father is under watch. They just found out.