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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Trump Defies Outrage, Defends Muslim Ban. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 08, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you all so much for joining us "AT THIS HOUR." LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

If we have learned nothing else from almost six months of outrageous pronouncements from Donald Trump, it is the more outrageous the pronouncements, the more Donald Trump defends it against a chorus of outrage. And so we begin with the leading candidate for the Republican nomination for president defending in a CNN interview his proposal for, and I quote, "a total and complete shutdown" of Muslims entering the United States. If you hadn't heard, I'll say it again, a total ban on all Muslims entering the United States.

Take a breath. Let it sink in. It may well be Mr. Trump's most outrageous pronouncement of the campaign to date, which is saying a hell of a lot. But the candidate claims the alternative will lead to, quote, "many more 911-type attacks." Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): I'm talking about a temporary situation until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on, Chris. We have to figure it out.

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": The timing is irrelevant.

TRUMP: Listen, we had the World Trade Center number one. We had World Trade Center number two. We had many other things happen. Then the other day we had the California attack where these two animals, they're total animals, they becoming radicalized and they wanted to do far more damage than that. What's even more disturbing, if you -- in terms of looking into the future is, other people knew what they were doing. There were bombs, pipe bombs laying all over the floor.

CUOMO: Right.

TRUMP: You had other people that knew what was going on, Chris, and nobody reported it. They used the excuse they didn't want to be racial profilers. They wanted to be politically correct. By the way, the people that said that I think in their own way they're guilty. The mother knew. The parents knew. Everybody knew. Now even his father is under watch we just found out.

CUOMO: But you use - you use politically correct. TRUMP: We have - Chris, we should be nice -

CUOMO: This isn't about being politically correct.

TRUMP: We can be politically correct.

CUOMO: This isn't about being politically correct.

TRUMP: But we have a problem in this country and we should solve it because you're going to have many more World Trade Centers if you don't solve it. Many, many more and probably beyond the World Trade Center.

CUOMO: Well, I - I don't see the point of scaring people with the possible when the reality is we haven't had another World Trade Center. You and I both lived through it. We both lost people there. We know what the real deal is. We know who celebrate and we didn't. We know what's scaring people and what the reality is. We haven't had those kinds of attacks. The security network has held up. And one of the reasons is our unity as a people. And I don't understand how you can see banning an entire religion as a way of saying anything other than, we are what ISIS says we are. We want a war against Islam. That's who America is. And as you know, or you should know, that is not who America is, Mr. Trump.

TRUMP: Chris, we are at war with radical Islamic terrorism.

CUOMO: Right, not all Islam.

TRUMP: We are at war whether you like it or whether you don't like it.

CUOMO: Not all Islam.

TRUMP: We have a president that made a fool out of himself the other night. He doesn't even mention the term. He refuses to use the term. Nobody understands why.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It is not hard to understand the pushback from Democrats, of course. But there is also a lot of pushback from GOP leaders, GOP elders, GOP officeholders, GOP fellow candidates, but Americans who fill arenas for Donald Trump rallies, who put him on top of poll after poll after poll, regardless of controversy after controversy after controversy, are standing firm and they are standing with Donald Trump. CNN's Randi Kaye had a chance to do something fabulous, go out and speak with them, several of them, outside of Mr. Trump's appearance last night in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As supporters waited in line to hear Donald Trump speak, word started to spread about his latest idea, banning all Muslims from entering the U.S.

KAYE (on camera): Donald Trump is now saying Muslims should not be allowed to enter this country until the U.S. figures out what's going on. Do you agree with that?

ED CAMPBELL, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yes, I do.

KAYE: Why?

CAMPBELL: I don't want them here. Who knows what they're going to bring into this country. We going to (ph) - bombs, ISIS, what? They need to go.

KAYE (voice-over): He's not the only supporter backing Trump's call for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the U.S. In fact, no one here we spoke with had a problem with the plan.

LAUREN MARTEL, TRUMP SUPPORTER: That's a very prudent idea and I think that he's done due diligence when he makes that statement. We have to protect our American citizens first, and the vetting process and the whole program lacks integrity.

KAYE: That's not true. In fact, the vetting process, run through multiple agencies, is vigorous. Some folks here saying not all Muslims are bad when pressed, but say they don't want to take any chance, even if some are coming to terms with it slowly.

[12:05:03] HUDSON JOHNSON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think that they should go through screening. I mean extensive screening. I mean we just let terrorists into this country that did the California shooting. I -

KAYE (on camera): He's not saying screening. He's just saying no Muslim should be allowed to enter the country right now. Do you agree? Yes or no? It's that simple.

JOHNSON: Yes.

KAYE (voice-over): Trump's harsh words for ISIS have also energized his supporters. On Fox recently, Mr. Trump shared part of his plan for how he'd bring down ISIS, including targeting terrorist families.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You have to wipe out their homes where they come from. You have to absolutely wipe them out. It's the only way you're going to stop terrorism.

KAYE (on camera): Are you in favor of bombing terrorist's homes?

JEAN KEIL, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Absolutely. Absolutely. People will continue to reproduce and they will raise children in their beliefs.

DEBORAH MOORE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Somebody just needs to go in there and take control of this. I just think it's - it's going rampant and I'm worried about America, worried about our safety. They're getting in. They need to be stopped.

KAYE (voice-over): At a November rally, Trump had some of his strongest words yet.

TRUMP: We've got to go and we've got to knock the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of these people. KAYE (on camera): Why do you think that he's the guy to take on ISIS?

GARY MEYER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: He's got the guts to take it on. And he can build a coalition also of other people to take them on as well.

KAYE: And one other note. Even though Donald Trump doesn't have any political experience and he's never taken a country to war or been in charge of a country at wartime, people who I've spoke with still say that they believe he's the guy who can combat ISIS, he's the guy who can wipe out ISIS. None of them really had any idea as to how or why they think they believe that when I pressed them, but they just believe wholeheartedly that he is the only one, the only candidate who can get the job done.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Mount Pleasant, South Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And I'm joined now by Jeffrey Lord, Donald Trump supporter, CNN political commentator and former White House political director under Ronald Reagan.

Jeffrey, thanks so much for - for doing this right now.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, Ashleigh. Thanks for having me.

BANFIELD: So this is going to be a tough one. I'm shaking my head at this on so many different level, legal, moral, a million different ways sideways. But I know that you've said - you, on our air earlier, that you're astonished that anybody could find stopping foreign-born Muslims at the border offensive and unconstitutional. But my problem is, I'm not so sure it's just foreign-born. Because Trump's campaign manager said everybody, all Muslims. He didn't differentiate. And then Donald Trump later seemed to differentiate maybe some leaders could come in from other countries, maybe it should be that Muslims who are living here should be able to come in. I don't get it. This is a policy paper -

LORD: Well, maybe (INAUDIBLE) people from the Middle East or countries that have this problem. First of all he's saying it's temporary. But the thing I can't emphasize enough, Ashleigh, is that we've been through this in this country. Franklin Roosevelt did far more than this. Franklin Roosevelt was Donald Trump on steroids. He did it with Germans. He did it with Italians. He did it with the Japanese. And I'm not talking about the internment camps which was immoral.

BANFIELD: The internationals (ph), right.

LORD: And secondly, President Roosevelt got his authority from the Aliens Enemies Act of 1798, which was signed by John Adams and directed at French immigrants in this country and that -

BANFIELD: Yes. Countries, yes.

LORD: Used (ph) against British immigrants in the war of 1812. BANFIELD: You're spot on, 100 percent. Jeffrey, you are 100 percent

right on all of those facts. Here's the only issue, they pertain to countries. We actually have a really robust immigration plan where we - we tell certain people they have to pay more money or wait longer if they're from some countries, countries, countries, countries, and your religion, your religion, your religion. This is where it is divergent.

LORD: Well, I mean, Ashleigh, all I can say - I mean, number one, that law, by the way, is still on the books right this minute. For 217 year, it's still there. But my point is, Ashleigh, this is the 21st century. The world changes.

BANFIELD: Yes.

LORD: And - and we're not dealing with a country in that sense, we're dealing with a -

BANFIELD: So if I had asked - I'll guarantee you - I'll -

LORD: We're dealing with a political philosophy here disguised as religion.

BANFIELD: Disguised. Thank you for saying that.

LORD: It isn't every Muslim. Donald has never said that.

BANFIELD: Thank you for saying disguised because if I had asked Mohamed Atta what religion he was on September 10, 2001, I guarantee you he wouldn't have told me he was Muslim. What makes you think this works? It's sort of preposterous that it's about asking someone - and I'll use Donald Trump's words which he said on MSNBC this morning, he's going to ask border and custom agents to ask incoming visitors, are you Muslim? They just - we just have to take them at their word?

LORD: Right. Well, I mean, I am sure there are all kinds of ways that we can find this out. I mean people have passports for one thing.

BANFIELD: You can't put a religion on a passport.

LORD: And what, I'm sorry?

BANFIELD: You don't have your religion on the passport. You've got your nationality. That's why I'm talking about nations versus religion.

LORD: Well, maybe we - maybe we need to make some changes. Ashleigh, all of this comes down to the - I mean I heard in the clip you played this morning of Chris Cuomo and I was on the show and he said, we haven't had a 9/11. We just had one on December 2nd. Fourteen Americans are dead because we're not paying attention to this.

BANFIELD: Well, we didn't have 3,000 people dying. I think that's the difference that - that many people make between massive strikes and - you know, I've got to ask you -

[12:10:07] LORD: You're still dead, Ashleigh, if - BANFIELD: Someone was so clever this morning saying, Jeffrey, if you supplant the word Jews for Muslims in a lot of the rhetoric that we've had this morning, I think people would find it sort of cringe worthy and reminiscent of a really ugly time in our history. Imagine a customs and border control agent, Jeffrey, asking someone, are you a Jew? How would that go over?

LORD: Well, Ashleigh, look, first of all, there are no Jews that are coming in here to destroy America. They're coming here to get away from these people.

BANFIELD: OK.

LORD: I mean, we have a problem. And saying that we don't have a problem is suicidal. It brought death to these Americans in California. It killed them. It killed them.

BANFIELD: Yes. I got to - I got to - I got to - you know what, I've got to stop you there.

LORD: OK.

BANFIELD: I'm going to tell you something. There's a guy named John Pistole (ph) who just recently was running the TSA. A real venerable guy. He, before that, was with the FBI. He was an executive assistant director for counter terror and counter intelligence.

LORD: Right.

BANFIELD: And he sat before Congress in 2004 and he testified, and this is to your point about, there are no Jews coming to hurt Americans. He testified about - from the period of 1980 to 1985 there were 18 terrorist attacks in the United States committed by Jews, 15 of them by members of the Jewish Defense League. The head of the Jewish Defense League was in jail awaiting trial on charges of trying to bomb a mosque in Culver City.

LORD: Ashleigh - Ashleigh -

BANFIELD: Trying bomb Darrell Issa's office, an Arab American. What are you talking about? There have been Jewish terrorist attacks.

LORD: Ashleigh - Ashleigh, I have a lot of respect -

BANFIELD: Should we therefore ask no Jews to please apply for a visa?

LORD: Are you - are you saying - are you really saying to me that there's an international Jewish conspiracy to take over the world? I mean which is quite (ph) radical Islam to go around.

BANFIELD: I'm telling you that there have been that many terrorist attacks committed by Jews and no one's suggesting for a minute that all Jews should be wiped out of this country from visiting.

LORD: Well, right, this is common sense here. We're (INAUDIBLE) common sense. BANFIELD: It's the same thing.

LORD: No, it is not the same thing, Ashleigh. The motive here is to set up a caliphate, to remake the entire world in the image of radical Islam. That's what they're about.

BANFIELD: The crazies. Yes, not the Muslims, the crazies.

LORD: And I might add, (INAUDIBLE) in 1683 when they were at the gates of (INAUDIBLE). This has been going on for centuries.

BANFIELD: There are 1.5 or 1.6 billion Muslims. And the majority is not crazy like that. The majority is like us, everybody (INAUDIBLE).

LORD: Well, and, Ashleigh, that's a good point because I listen to people on your air and other places, the Dr. Judy Zasher (ph) I guess his name is, who say it's Muslims themselves that are going to have to come to grips with this problem. People like you and I, and even Donald Trump, can't solve this. This problem has to be resolved within the Muslim community. They've got to step up to the plate here.

You know, and I would - I would - I would - I - we're probably almost out of time, but I would just say that during the civil rights movement there were a lot of white guys, bad white guys in the south, klan members et cetera, and a lot of good white guys stood up and said, we're not tolerating this, and they marched for civil rights and they helped get these civil rights laws that were passed in the 1860s reconstruct and brought back to life. They didn't leave it to other people. They did it themselves.

BANFIELD: Yes.

LORD: And the Muslim community is going to have to do this themselves.

BANFIELD: I've got to go. You're right, we are out of time and I could talk to you all day about this because we didn't even get in to Ted Kaczynski or -

LORD: Me too. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

BANFIELD: I mean, so many bad white guys have done this too. You know, you'll have to come back. I always love having you on, Jeffrey. Thank you.

LORD: OK.

BANFIELD: I know it's a hard day for you today, so thank you for this.

LORD: Yipee.

BANFIELD: Jeffrey Lord joining me live.

All right, so my next guest says Trump's latest demagoguery is not only offensive, not only unconstitutional, but it is dangerous and not just to Muslims. Haroon Moghul is a graduate student at Columbia University. He's a fellow at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding.

So there are a lot of Trump defenders and supporters, either out at the rallies or like Jeffrey who are trying to put fact to this argument. We're at war. It's not normal times. You have to do abnormal thing. France is doing abnormal thing, holding people against their freedoms, suspending sort of constitutional rights there as well. Do they have a point?

HAROON MOGHUL, INSTITUTE FOR SOCIAL POLICY AND UNDERSTANDING: No, because, let's look at the idea. Let's stop people, if they are Muslim, from entering the country. About 40 percent of people who were arrested by the FBI in the last year for trying to join ISIS or affiliated with ISIS were converts to Islam. Many of those people convert online through ISIS media accounts and through ISIS propaganda, not through mosques or Muslim institutions, which have a zero tolerance policy for extremism. Now you're telling me that the best approach is to ask people if they're Muslim or to somehow determine that religion connects to extremism. What about people who have names that are not openly, while some are obviously Muslim. Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. Richard Reid does not scream to me a name that is Muslim and probably not for a lot of Americans.

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE).

MOGHUL: Exactly. So you have - you have a lot of that. That's - that's one issue.

Second, Trump has manage to take away one of the most important things we've been talking about in the last few days, which is gun control. There's a common sense thing you can do that - that there are people who are extremists and radicalized. Let's make it a little bit harder for them to accumulate the weapons they need to do harm and to do damage. And, third, the solution we need is, we need a solution to Syria.

[12:15:01] BANFIELD: What about getting - and these are all great topics.

MOGHUL: Sure. Sure.

BANFIELD: But I want to be really specific to this and what's happened today.

MOGHUL: Sure.

BANFIELD: Haroon, and Jeffrey Lord just said, the Muslim community has to step up more. And I think you hear a lot of people saying that. They complain there's not enough outrage, there's not enough inner spying, et cetera. There are some statistics out there saying that the Muslim community has, in fact, generated more tips against potential terror plots than even the FBI has been able to unleash or unearth themselves. I'm not sure that that's really easy to track considering so much of that stuff is kept quiet. But how - but isn't that also a point that there has to be more outrage, there has to be marching in the streets against this, there has to be more of a community of Muslims here in the United States saying, enough, not in my name? MOGHUL: And there's a lot of that. I mean, unfortunately, a lot of

Muslim institutions don't know how to get their messages out there, but there is a lot of that. And I - I can't tell you how many conversations I've been a part of in the last few days where there are people that are outraged, they're disgusted, they're angry and they're frustrated because, look, here you have got two terrorists who hid their plots from their closest family members. So how can we possibly assume that a wider community - maybe I see somebody at a mosque once a week who's going to have any idea what's going through anyone's head.

BANFIELD: I'm sure no one thought Timothy McVeigh was going to do what he did.

MOGHUL: Yes.

BANFIELD: And he might have gone to church every so often too.

MOGHUL: Exactly.

BANFIELD: Just quickly, on a personal level.

MOGHUL: Sure.

BANFIELD: My friend, you were telling me before we went to air that you have some vacation planned.

MOGHUL: Yes.

BANFIELD: That would be entirely different under Donald Trump's plan if he had an executive order that, in fact, passed all the legal muster, which is later in the show. But what would that do for you personally? As Haroon going to, say, France.

MOGHUL: Haroon is going to stay in France. Haroon is going to have to hang out in France for a while. It's an open question. It's not just me, but what about family members. Family members who may not be citizens. Family members from abroad. People who are businessmen, who are tourists, diplomats, world leaders. I mean there's so many questions that come up. And there are a lot of Muslims now who are honestly really scared and uncomfortable because this kind of language is going in a certain direction. You know, we talk about fascism and maybe we use the world sometimes a little lightly, but I don't think in Donald Trump's case that's an unfair term to use to apply to him because what he's proposing is collective punishment. That he just said that the whole community, the entire religious community should suffer for the actions of a few. And it should be pointed out that ISIS, their primary enemy is other Muslims because if their whole ideology is Islamist extremism and Islam as a caliphate and so on and so forth and the world's Muslims are rejecting them, then that is the most powerful rebuttal to everything they stand for.

BANFIELD: And that point I was trying to make with Jeffrey Lord as well. God forbid anybody thinks that I'm trying to suggest that Jews are terrorists. What I'm trying to suggest are the actions of a few, be them Christians who might be McVeigh or Kaczynski or whomever, or Jews who might be part of the Jewish Defense League that carried out these - these attacks, the actions of a few don't speak for the actions of 1.6 million -

MOGHUL: And if I can just add, a lot of - a lot of extremists do that. They do that to Jewish communities and western communities. They say they disagree with x, y, and z, and then they take it out on everyone.

BANFIELD: And then there's this whole constitutional debate I'm about to have on this show called the LEGAL VIEW as well, which makes it really intriguing.

Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it.

MOGHUL: Thank you. Thank you.

BANFIELD: Haroon Moghul joining us. And not to go on vacation any time soon without absolute guarantee that he can make it back.

The other GOP candidates and even the House speaker himself are weighing in on Donald Trump's most recent policy paper and they are distancing themselves from that frontrunner and his views about the Muslim community. But will that make any difference at all?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:22:25] BANFIELD: Welcome back to LEGAL VIEW.

Donald Trump calling for the complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States. It is not the first time that he has said something very controversial. In fact, from the moment he announced his candidacy, he has been saying things that have just, well, they've certainly captured the attention of the nation, and that's an understatement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me. I would bomb the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them.

I saw people getting together and, in fairly large numbers, celebrating as the World Trade Center was coming down.

Now the poor guy, you've got to see this guy, ah, I don't know what I said. Ah, I don't remember. He's going like, I don't remember. I - oh, maybe that's what I said. This is 14 years ago. He still - they didn't do a retraction.

Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: Donald Trump's catching a lot of criticism, and not just from the Democrats. You'd expect that. He's getting criticism from his own party. A lot of members of his own party, leaders, including the House speaker, Paul Ryan. Speaker Ryan's critical of Trump's move, but he says he will still back whoever wins the GOP nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: This is not conservativism. What was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for, and, most importantly, it's not what this country stands for.

I'm going to support whoever the Republican nominee is, and I'm going to stand up for what I believe in as I do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: But playing close to his vest, fellow candidate, Senator Ted Cruz, is refusing to go after Donald Trump like the other candidates have. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the media there has been no shortage of criticism for Donald Trump. And I do not believe the world needs my voice added to that chorus of critics. And, listen, I commend Donald Trump for standing up and focusing America's attention on the need to secure our borders. Border security is national security. I would note that no one can purport to be protecting the national security of this country if they are not prepared to secure the borders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:25:08] BANFIELD: And that's what some people call hedging. I'm not sure if you guys call it hedging or what you call it, but joining me now live from Washington, senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, and political reporter Sara Murray, who spends a lot of time on the campaign trail, takes it on the chin when she's critical of Trump. So let's talk about the blowback on the trail.

Sara, what's happening out there today?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I think the reality is, you are seeing more condemnation from leaders of the Republican Party, from some of Donald Trump's Republican opponents than we have seen before. I think, you know, you saw those comments from Paul Ryan. He has been hesitant to weigh in on 2016. He's said that. He also saw the leaders of the Republican Parties in Iowa, in New Hampshire, South Carolina, the first three nominating states all coming out in opposition to what Donald Trump is talking about here.

The real question is, does that matter to his supporters? When I talk to voters who go to Trump event, and when Randi Kaye or, you know, from CNN was talking to them last night, you get the sense that there is this fear, this mistrust and even this hatred towards some Muslims and so it's possible that this will just push Donald Trump's poll numbers higher, especially among conservatives in places like Iowa.

BANFIELD: So, Nia, jump on that issue, because that's what's happened every time something crazy or wild or controversial has hit the airwaves after Donald Trump's speech or policy paper, in this case. Blow-back is one thing, but is this like the final countdown or is this the final count-up?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right. I, you know, almost every time this has happened, people have said, well, this will lead to his demise. I do think it's notable that this time, that, as Sara said, you had those three GOP say (ph) chairs come out and say that this was un-American, it was un-Republican, that this didn't represent conservative values.

Look, there is a contradiction here, right? On the one hand they say that, but as with Paul Ryan, he said the same thing, he still says that he will back Donald Trump if he is the nominee. So that, I think, is something that you'll see Democrats certainly seize on. Can Republicans, on the one hand, say, listen, he doesn't represent the Party, the Republican Party, but also say that if he is the standard bearer for the party, the face of the party, that they would then in turn support him. So I think if we see that, if we see the breaking of ranks, not only from candidates, but also GOP party leaders, then that will be interesting.

I do think the subtext of this here is that in some ways we are post- party. There's always been this theory that the party decides the nominee and that endorsements really matter. But at least so far, Donald Trump has thumbed his nose at the Republican National Committee, he's thumbed his nose at party elders and, in some ways, they traditionally are referees, but in this sense they don't necessarily have the credibility to rebuke Donald Trump.

BANFIELD: Yes. Sara, real quickly, can you just button this up in a couple of seconds. Like, we talk about, you know, this core base of supporters that back Donald Trump no matter what, but, you know what, he polls consistently high. He polls constantly high. And effectively, if you look at this latest number from the CNN/ORC poll, November 27th through December 1st, one in three Republicans support Donald Trump. This has gone way beyond a core base of supporters, hasn't it, Sara?

MURRAY: Yes, I think that's absolutely right and I think we keep looking to see where Donald Trump's ceiling is. I think the one, you know, the one risk we have that Trump has at this point is, are you trying to win Iowa or are you trying to win the presidency? Look, the things he says might resonate well with the conservative base and he might be able to broaden that beyond what we thought. But it's really hard to carry a message like this into a broader electorate and into the general election. And eventually, if you do win the Republican nomination, that's what you have to do, you have to be president of all Americans, and that includes Muslim Americans.

BANFIELD: Yes, you know, there's the battle and there's the war, and that's a big topic of discussion for everybody involved h this.

Nia-Malika Henderson, Sara Murray, thank you both. Appreciate your hard work out there.

MURRAY: Thanks.

HENDERSON: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Don't forget, just one week from tonight, the last GOP debate of the year is happening and it's happening right here on CNN. Will Donald Trump stick to his comments? And what will the others stay up on that stage? Find out. Wolf Blitzer's going to moderate the next debate on December 15th, 9:00 p.m. right here only on CNN.

And I know you have probably heard a litany of folks saying it is unconstitutional to ask people their religion when you're trying to pass the law about keeping Muslims out of the country. Is it? You might be surprised at where the constitutional scholars all fall on this plan. We'll talk about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)