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Trump States To Ban Muslims Coming Into The U.S.; White House Addresses Trump Muslim Ban; Merkley States Trump Has Worst Idea Ever. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired December 08, 2015 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm John Berman. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment. It is 1:00 p.m. here in New York, 6:00 in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching around the world, thanks for joining us.
We start with Donald Trump's plan to ban all Muslims from the United States. In a statement, Trump said, our country cannot be the victim to horrendous acts by people that believe only in jihad and have no sense of reason or respect for human life. But with his proposed ban and that comment, Trump is, in effect, saying that all Muslims believe in violent jihad. At a campaign event, Trump did not let up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): We're out of control. We have no idea who's coming into our country. We have no idea if they love us or if they hate us. We have no idea if they want to bomb us. I have friends that are Muslims. They're great people. But they know we have a problem. They know we have a real problem. Because something is going on and we can't put up with it, folks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Trump further defended his strategy this morning on CNN's "NEW DAY" talking with our Chris Cuomo.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: You take a look, Chris, at what's going on and it is disgraceful. First of all, you know, people quickly forget World Trade Center One, World Trade Center number two. And you take a look at all of the things that are happening, having to do with the problems.
Now, you have the problem in California where -- and miraculously $28,000 dollars just found in disguise, just put into this guy's account. This horrible, you know, person, this killer, this maniac, into his account.
I have no doubt that we have no choice but to do what exactly I said until the country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. Because we have a problem in this country. You look at Paris. You look at the carnage --
CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Right.
TRUMP: -- that took place in Paris. But look at it beyond that. Paris is no longer the beautiful, gorgeous city with all -- Paris has a tremendous lot of problems. And they have areas in Paris that have been radicalized where the police refuse to go in look at it.
CUOMO: We are --
TRUMP: They refuse to --
CUOMO: We are well aware --
TRUMP: -- take part in it.
CUOMO: We are --
TRUMP: You look at London, you look at other places.
CUOMO: We are well aware. We are well aware. But Mr. Trump, here's the point.
TRUMP: No, wait a minute, Chris, you're well aware. You say that so routinely, you're well aware.
CUOMO: Well, because I've been on the ground.
TRUMP: You look at parts of Paris.
CUOMO: I've been in those communities.
TRUMP: Nobody's going to go there until --
CUOMO: I've talked to French authorities.
TRUMP: -- (INAUDIBLE.) It's totally out of control. It's so dangerous.
CUOMO: Well, that's what you say. The police are all over that country right now and they're doing a lot of policing. But more importantly to your point, I would say it is the opposite reality. You see the French being more embracing of people around them. You see them living their lives. You see them refusing to accept fear as a basis for behavior.
Whereas here, what you're doing, in the country that is known as the symbol of freedom is saying, we're too afraid to be inclusive. We're going to reject the promise of America and ban an entire religion, even though we need to do things on the case-by-case basis. And it seems as though you're acting out of fear, not making us look strong, and rejecting what America is all about. U.K.'s not doing this. France isn't doing this. TRUMP: No, I'm making us look strong, Chris. And don't tell me about
Paris. Paris is under tremendous siege. They are absolutely in fear in Paris. Don't tell me Paris is not --
CUOMO: They are -- they have heightened awareness. They do not have fear. And they're not acting out of it. That's why they're letting in refugees.
TRUMP: They don't have fear. Of course they have fear. Of course they have fear.
CUOMO: it's how you behave in that environment.
TRUMP: I have people that have friends living in Paris. They want to leave. They're petrified.
CUOMO: But what are they doing? Are they banning all Muslims?
TRUMP: Well, let's see, maybe they're going to have to. Maybe they're going to have to do something.
CUOMO: And that's not even on the table.
TRUMP: Look, I'm talking about a temporary situation until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on, Chris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: That was Donald Trump a short time ago on CNN's "NEW DAY."
And just moments ago, from the podium inside the White House press room, White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, responded to Donald Trump's proposal to ban all Muslims from entering the United States. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSH EARNEST, U.S. WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Let me just step back and say, the Trump campaign, for months now, has had a dustbin of history like quality to it. From the vacuous sloganeering to the outright lies to even the fake hair, the whole carnival barker routine that we've seen for some time now. The question now is about the rest of the Republican Party and whether or not they're going to be dragged into the dustbin of history with him.
And right now, the current trajectory is not very good. Earlier this year, House Republicans elected to their leadership somebody who famously bragged to a reporter that he's David Duke without the baggage.
[13:05:06] Earlier this month, we saw that the executive director of the Senate Republican Campaign Committee was advising candidates about how they could ride the Trump wave. And just today, today, the newly elected speaker of the House said that he would vote for Donald Trump for president if he's the party's nominee. Now, I know that each of the Republican candidates has already taken an oath pledging to support Donald Trump for president of the United States if he wins the nomination. But the fact is, the first thing a president does when he or she takes the oath of office is to swear an oath to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States.
And the fact is that what Donald Trump said yesterday disqualifies him from serving as president, and for the Republican candidates for president to stand by their pledge to support Mr. Trump, that, in and of itself, is disqualifying.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: White House press secretary, Josh Earnest. This is what some other prominent political figures are saying. Democrat Hillary Clinton said, what Trump said was reprehensible, prejudiced and divisive. She tweeted this, love Trump's hate.
On the Republican side, candidate Jeb Bush said Donald Trump is unhinged. Chris Christie said this is the kind of thing that people say when they have no experience and don't know what they're talking about.
But Senator Lindsey Graham may have gone the furthest with his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And you know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: And the highest ranking Republican in Congress, House speaker Paul Ryan who does not normally comment on presidential politics, broke precedent to speak about Trump's plan this morning. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL RYAN (R), U.S. SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Normally, I do not comment on what's going on in the presidential election. I will take an exception today. This is not conservativism. What was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for and, more importantly, it's not what this country stands for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Joining me now from Washington is CNN Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger and Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. Nia, this is a combination from a whole lot of people in the political world from a wide range of spectrum. So, does this controversial moment for Donald Trump pose any greater threat than the past controversial moments and comments he has made?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, it's very much deja vu all over again, I think, with Donald Trump. It's become a ritual, almost, for him to say something controversial, for there to be predictions made about his demise coming up.
But, again, he still seems to rise in the polls or at least stay put in command, something like a third of the Republican Parties' voters. I thought there with Josh Earnest, he is making a point that I think you'll hear from a lot of Democrats. This idea that, on the one hand, people like Paul Ryan, people like Dick Cheney and people like Jeb Bush, are certainly condemning Donald Trump.
On the one hand, they also seem to suggest that if he ended up being the nominee, they would ultimately support him. That's also the point that Bill Kristol, who's a very prominent conservative writer, that he made as well. So, I thought that the White House obviously doing some more for the Democratic Party there today with Josh Earnest's statement.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Can I just say that --
BERMAN: I thought it was very -- yes, go ahead, Gloria.
BORGER: I think Josh Earnest was very strong obviously in his condemnation, saying what Trump did was unconstitutional, disqualifies him from serving as president. By weighing in that heavily, I think it helps Donald Trump, honestly, with the Republican base that he's trying to attract as he heads into Iowa and New Hampshire.
As a general election strategy, obviously, what Josh was doing would be gathering the Democratic base. But right now, I think they pretty well don't like Donald Trump. But going in this heavily against Trump right now only gives him another talking point as he campaigns.
BERMAN: Because the thought being if Obama hates it, it must be great?
BORGER: Right. And if the White House is talking about you from the podium and not liking you and saying you're disqualified to become president, I think what the Republican primary base that that kind of works in Trump's favor.
BERMAN: But what about, Nia, the point that Josh was making? What about the point that Paul Ryan would not say -- he essentially said if Donald Trump is the nominee, he will vote for him. All the Republican candidates signed a pledge. Does this put the candidates in a bind? Does this put the party in a bind? We haven't heard from the RNC proper on this. They don't normally necessarily weigh in on things like this. But they've been remarkably silent so far.
HENDERSON: That's right. You have heard from three party chairs out of the early states, Iowa, South Carolina and New Hampshire. They weighed in on it similarly.
[13:10:05] But I think that's the next question that candidates are going to get and really be pressed on this. If you are Jeb Bush, you tweeted that Donald Trump is unhinged. So, can you, at the same time, also say that you would vote for a person that you think is unhinged? So, I think in these coming days, we have Donald Trump who very much has defined the parameters, in some ways, at least over these next days, in terms of how they talk about Muslims, how they talk about ISIS. So, they are going to be put on the defensive in this very specific way. And they've got to figure out how they handle it, as well as the entire Republican Party.
I do think we are in this era. Gloria talked about Donald Trump could gain fuel from the White House today. He could also gain fuel from the establishment, coming out against him in such a broad and sort of vociferous way.
BORGER: Can I just say, Reince Priebus, just to -- because you asked this question. The chairman of the RNC just came out and told the "Examiner" here in Washington that he doesn't agree with Trump. And that we need to aggressively take on radical Islamic terrorism, but not at the expense of the American values.
BERMAN: OK. So, the chairman of the RNC even coming out against this plan from Donald Trump. It will be interesting to see what he says and what the other candidates say leading up to the debate one week from tonight right here on CNN on the subject of foreign policy. All those candidates will have to stand on a stage with him. Will they condemn his plan to his face? Gloria Borger, Nia-Malika Henderson, thank you so much.
HENDERSON: Thank you.
BERMAN: Word of Trump's proposal has spread like wild fire soon after it was released. At that moment, one senator took to the floor saying it was the single worst idea ever from a presidential candidate. Those words from the Oregon Democrat, Jeff Merkley. Senator Merkley joins me now from Capitol Hill. So, Senator, you agreed with Paul Ryan who says this is more than just bad politics.
SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D), OREGON: Well, absolutely. This is wrong and this is dangerous. It's wrong, I terms of being completely out of sync with our values and the vision established in our constitution. But it's also dangerous because what ISIS has wanted is to create an appearance of a war between America and Islam. But we are not at war with Islam. We have Islamic nations that are key partners in our battle against the extremism, against ISIS.
We certainly have patriotic Americans of every religion, working together, serving in the armed service who are fighting together to take on ISIS. And so, when you play in and you give the exact idea that ISIS has wanted to cultivate, you are contributing to the radicalization of Muslims around the world, exact opposite of what we want. And this is certainly hurts our national security.
BERMAN: We've heard from military leaders. People fighting ISIS say this gives ISIS what it wants. Back to Paul Ryan for a second here. He condemned Trump's comments, essentially calling them un-American. Yet, the speaker of the House still indicated he would vote for Donald Trump if he is the nominee. Now, you are not on that side of the aisle. But, in your mind, is that enough of a condemnation for Republican leadership? Do they need to come out harsher?
MERKLEY: I think they do need to come out harsher because is -- as was said earlier, this is not conservativism. This is not within the range of what is valor under our vision. We have those beautiful words into the base of the statue of liberty that says, give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. And we don't have, then, a star that says, unless you're -- or a quota that says, unless you happen to be Muslim. That is a complete mistake in every way.
We are founders of our country wanting to make sure any one of any religion can come here and practice freely their beliefs. That is the foundation of our -- of our country. And so, I think Donald Trump certainly is not expressing an understanding of our constitution, an understanding of our history, an understanding of our American values. And it really does disqualified from being someone who would be in charge of the free world.
BERMAN: Leave Trump aside for a moment. Do you, Senator, think enough is being done to screen people when they come into the United States?
MERKLEY: Certainly we've had a big debate over the refugee program, because a number of folks said they would not allow refugees to come in. Chris Christie said even a Syrian orphan under the age of three, an infant, he would not allow to come in. We have the most extensive refugee screening process in the world. It is -- it takes two years. It goes into every aspect. And that is completely misguided. Certainly those that want to enter the United States to do harm wouldn't choose to go through the two-year refugee process. We need to continue to be open to refugees from around the world. That is part of our American vision and our American values.
BERMAN: The president spoke Sunday night from the Oval Office. There's been some criticism that he didn't offer enough new ideas.
[13:15:00] What more do you want to hear from the president in how this country will fight ISIS both here at home and abroad going forward?
MERKLEY: Well, I think the president stood up in a very clear fashion and made it the core point that we are not at war with Islam. And by the way, George W. Bush expressed this very effectively when he was president. It's not often that I can say I was in complete agreement with George W. Bush. But when he clarified that we're fighting extremism, we're fighting a terrorist organization, we are not at war with Islam, that is exactly the same vision that our president is laying out very correctly, in sync with our values, and it's the opposite of where Donald Trump is headed.
BERMAN: Senator Jeff Merkley from Oregon, thanks so much for being with us.
MERKLEY: You're very welcome. Thank you.
BERMAN: Trump's remarks on the Muslim travel ban not the first controversial comments he has made and probably not going to be the last. After the break, one of Trump's supporters tells us why he is still standing behind the candidate.
Plus, new details on when and how the terrorist couple in San Bernardino -- when they became radicalized.
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[13:20:12] BERMAN: Our top story, Donald Trump's proposal to ban Muslims from entering the United States, at least temporarily. Trump obviously no stranger to controversy has made several comments since entering the race for the Republican nomination. Several comments that have offended some people. Here are just a few of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us (ph). They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
He hit me. He's not a war hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a war hero.
TRUMP: He is a war hero --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five and a half years as a POW.
TRUMP: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured, OK, I hate to tell you.
You have to take out their families. When you get these terrorist, you have to take out their families. They -- they care about their lives. Don't kid yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump --
TRUMP: But they say they don't care about their lives. You have to take out their families.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should there be a database system that tracks the Muslims who are in this country?
TRUMP: There should be a lot of systems beyond databases. I mean we should have a lot of systems. And today you can do it. But right now we have to have a border, we have to have strength, we have to have a wall and we cannot let what's happening to this country happen in the (INAUDIBLE).
Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: Now, as controversial as these comments have been, clearly Trump has his supporters. As he rightly points out, he is leading in almost every state in national poll. Last night at a Trump event in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina, CNN's Randi Kaye spoke to just a few of these supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a very prudent idea, and I think that he's done due diligence when he makes that statement. We have to protect our American citizens first, and the vetting process and the whole program lacks integrity.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you agree with that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.
KAYE: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want them here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Let's talk this all over. I'm joined by Lou Gargiulo. He's the campaign co-chair for Trump in New Hampshire. Also CNN political commentator and Republican strategist S.E. Cupp, and Harris Zafar, the national spokesperson for the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
Lou, I want to start with you. You are a Trump supporter. Do you support this idea to ban Muslims from coming into the United States and, if so, why?
LOU GARGIULO, CO-CHAIR, TRUMP'S ROCKINGHAM COUNTY, N.H. CAMPAIGN: I support the idea that we have to take drastic steps at this point to protect the homeland. I think San Bernardino and what happened in Paris speaks to the chaos that exists across the world with radical Islamic terrorists entering both Western Europe and the United States with the sole purpose of killing non-Muslim people.
Do I believe we should ban them indefinitely? Absolutely not. What I do believe is that we need to take a step back, figure out how we ensure that they're properly screened and then allow people in. The screening process -- obviously what happened in San Bernardino speaks to the fact that the lady came into this country and obviously wasn't properly screened. Nobody even knew where she came from in Pakistan. How do you allow people in like that at this point in time?
BERMAN: So -- but all Muslims, all Muslims -- you know, and, by the way, the guy was born in Illinois.
GARGIULO: I recognize he was born in Illinois. And I was speaking about his wife that he found on a Muslim dating site that was brought into the country most likely with the sole purpose of radicalizing him. And that are -- those are the dangers that we're faced today. I mean the situation is much different than anything else we've ever been faced with. And I recognize that what Mr. Trump said can be viewed controversially. But clearly we need to take steps. The current administration on Sunday night came out and said, same old, same old, did not come out with anything dramatic on how to resolve the issue with ISIS. And until we do, and until Islamic leaders in this country and across the world come out and condemn the radical Islam element that exists, we are going to have continued problems. And I call for Islamic leaders to speak out, as harshly as they do about everything else, about what is going on.
BERMAN: All right, Harris, you just head it. You've heard Donald Trump say he wants to ban Muslims from entering the United States. you just heard a Trump supporter say he wants to ban Muslims, at least for now, from entering the United States. Your response?
[13:24:59] HARRIS ZAFAR, NATL. SPOKESPERSON, AHMADIYYA MUSLIM COMMUNITY: Well, we within the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, because we're Muslims who believe in the Messiah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadian, we've said from day one that the safety and security of this nation is our top priority, which is why we believe that the remarks by Donald Trump should not be dignified with a response for three reasons. Number one, it's impractical. There's literally no way you can find out who is or who is not a Muslim when they're coming in.
Only 15 percent of the Muslim population in the world is of Arab descent. Number two, it's against the morals of the American grain, which is built on liberty, not on fear. And finally, number three, it feeds into the extremist ideology, which is why I'm beginning to wonder if Mr. Trump is in cahoots and affiliation with ISIS because everything he says is fodder for the recruitment that they use in their videos to try to prove to Muslims that America is against Muslims, they're vilifying Muslims and you should join us to get retribution.
So within the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, not only have we -- since our inception, 127 years ago, been vocal at speaking out against radicalization despite the fact that Mr. Trump and his supporters are burying their head in the sand and not listening to us. But we've had -- we've paved the path of a true solution to protecting our homeland security but what we're calling true Islam that's launching very soon (ph) to identify true Islam versus the extremists to champion our voices that have been there since day one instead of pushing us aside and saying we're part of the problem.
BERMAN: S.E.
GARGIULO: That comment you made about Mr. Trump is absurd. Absolutely absurd.
BERMAN: Hang on. Hang on, Lou, I want to -- I want to get -- I want to get -- what's absurd?
GARGIULO: The comment you made that Mr. Trump is in cahoots with ISIS.
ZAFAR: Oh, it's --
BERMAN: Well, but, Lou -- but, Lou -- ZAFAR: I think it's perfectly clear. Everything he's saying is giving them content for their video. So we are against ISIS. We're against anyone who's supporting their ideology. And he is feeding all of the content that's being used in their videos to prove to the naive Muslims out there, who know no better, to say that this is what America's all about. So we want to continue to partner with our American leads, not people like him who seem to be in cahoots with them.
BERMAN: Let me ask you, S.E., about -- a little bit about the political angle of this because David Brody (ph), you know, who wrote for -- who works for Christian Broadcasting, noted yesterday that -- he used the word bravery initially, but then he said -- talked about the courage to discuss the issue of Muslims coming into the United States. Do you think that this will play with evangelical voters, S.E.? Do you think that there will be Republican voters in key early voting states who see what Donald Trump said and say, hey, you know what, it's not so crazy?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, clearly his supporters are behind it. But I think most Republicans find what Donald Trump said to be repulsive. And -- and it is on multiple levels. It's repulsive morally. It's repulsive if you cherish the Constitution. It's repulsive if you're a good conservative. It's repulsive if you like freedom of religion. It's repulsive on so many -- so many levels. And, frankly, I don't know how -- how Trump's surrogates, like Lou, can sleep at night peddling this unconstitutional, un-conservative and un- American garbage for a guy who, let's face it, will never be president.
BERMAN: S.E., if -- if it's repulsive, how can Paul Ryan say that he would still vote for Donald Trump as the nominee?
CUPP: Yes, I mean you have to point out that almost to a person, every representative of the Republican Party has totally summarily denounced what Donald Trump said.
BERMAN: They have.
CUPP: But you also have to understand, what are they going to do, tell everyone that they're just going to stay home on Election Day? They can't do that. So I think they're having difficulty, you know, trying to -- trying to sort of situate themselves for what they all believe will not end up a Trump nomination. But in the eventual case, they can't just say they're going to sit home. That's not practical either.
BERMAN: Was the pledge a bad idea?
CUPP: Yes.
BERMAN: I mean Reince Priebus forced every candidate to sign a pledge to say they would support the nominee.
CUPP: Yes.
BERMAN: In retrospect, was that a mistake? CUPP: So I'm -- yes, I'm writing about that today. I'm glad you asked.
I think it was. I mean it's procedure and so I understand that part of it and everyone sort of lives under this specter of a third party candidate, which no one wants.
However, this was a guy who didn't want to be married to the Republican Party, right? I mean this is a guy who said he was considering a third party run, who had voted for Democrats before, supported Democrats before, believed in some fairly liberal, you know, policies before. And here we were, not only begging him to marry us, but flying up to New York to deliver the ring on one knee in person. And I think that does make it easier for Democrats to say, this guy's your brand. Even when all of us denounced what he says, it's very easy for the Democratic Party to paint the entirety of the GOP field with the Trump brush.
BERMAN: Wow, S.E., Lou, Harris, great discussion. Thank you very much. All fodder for next week's Republican debate, which will be absolutely fascinating now. The last Republican debate of the year. You can watch it only here on CNN. That is Tuesday, December 15th at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
[13:29:52] Meanwhile, we have new details about when the San Bernardino shooters could have been radicalized. What the FBI is now saying about their past. That's next.
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