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U.S. Prepared to Help Iraq Retake Ramadi; GOP Takes on Trump and Muslim Ban Controversy; FBI Chief Testifies on Terror Strategy; Chicago Mayor Addresses Council. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 09, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:50] ASHTON CARTER, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: So we have thought about it. It's complicated. We have not recommended that because it's an undertaking of substantial scale where in my judgment the costs outweigh the benefits. Let me ask General --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before you answer --

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

You're listening there to Defense Secretary Ash Carter testifying on the Hill in the wake of the terrorist attacks in Paris and San Bernardino.

He talked about the U.S. strategy against ISIS, saying that ISIS is not contained; of course, in stark contrast from what we heard from President Obama several weeks ago.

I want to bring in CNN military analyst Col. Peter Mansour, CNN counterterrorism analyst Phil Mudd, and Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.

Barbara, first to you, Ash Carter made some news in his testimony saying that the U.S. would be providing additional capabilities to the Iraqi army. What will that look like?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, what he was talking about, Pamela, was Ramadi. And as you'll remember, several months ago at the low point of all of this, really, Iraqi forces basically ran from Ramadi. The ISIS fighters took it over, and it's been under their grip ever since. The Iraqis struggling to get it back.

It's a real showcase of what ISIS' capability is to terrorize people. Now the Iraqis making some progress and today Carter saying we believe for the first time that the U.S. is willing to put Apache gunships, Apache attack helicopters into the Ramadi fight to support the Iraqis as they try and get it back. And perhaps even more important, U.S. military advisers on the ground.

They would not go as far as the very front lines into Ramadi, but they would be on the ground there, helping, advising and assisting Iraqi forces as they struggle to retake Ramadi. Ramadi, Mosul in northern Iraq, Raqqa in Syria -- these are the cities that are really the sort of global earmarks of ISIS' power on the ground. These are the cities that the U.S. wants to be able to say ISIS has been booted out of -- Pamela.

BROWN: And what's interesting, just in the wake of what you're saying, Barbara, he basically said, look the U.S. is doing our part, we're escalating the attacks against ISIS. Now other countries need to do the same. And he singled out countries, Peter. He said, you know, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey -- they need to step up to the plate. What do you make of that?

COL. PETER MANSOUR, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: You know, but what he's calling for is the reintroduction of Arab Air Forces into the fight. Again, that's reinforcing a strategy that Chairman McCain and Senator Sessions rightly said has no time line. There's no end state in terms of when they're going to be able to retake Raqqa or retake Mosul.

And what the Secretary said is, well, we want to develop an indigenous Sunni Arab force to be able do this. It would be much easier to actually assemble an international coalition to destroy ISIS and then assemble the Sunni Arab force to hold the ground once it's cleared of the grip of ISIS. And so I think he has it really reversed, and I think that's exactly what the chairman was pointing out in his questioning.

BROWN: Phil, what do you think? Do the Arab countries in the region there need to do more?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think they do.

MANSOUR: Well, they do --

MUDD: I'm sorry.

BROWN: Go ahead. Peter?

MUDD: Go ahead -- Peter.

BROWN: They absolutely do need to do more, but it's going to require American leadership. You know, we assembled an international coalition to fight the Gulf War in 1991 that included all sorts of Arab nations because we showed firm, decisive leadership and the willingness to put American boots on the ground. And if we did that again, I'm sure that we would have our Arab allies and partners with us. But absent any sort of decisiveness on the President's part, they're going to prevaricate and they're going to stay on the sidelines.

BROWN: Phil?

MUDD: I think the conversation is backward. I agree with Peter that we do have to have an international coalition, but we're focused on the application of unilateral military force in Syria.

There are two questions mostly on Secretary of State Kerry's plate that need to be answered first. Number one, how do we assemble the coalition that will go in with U.S. forces into Syria? Because I think most people would agree, we do not want a unilateral American force governing Syrian cities.

The second question is if you are going to assemble that coalition, what government in Damascus are they going to hand power over to? So the questions to me are what is the Secretary of State doing to accelerate the process to bring governance to Syria potentially including the Russians and a conversation about the future of Assad. And how do U.S. forces come behind that?

Most of the conversation now is focused on U.S. forces without considering what they're going in there to do. I think it's backwards.

BROWN: And Barbara, you know, we heard from Ash Carter saying, look, in order to succeed here, we need to defeat ISIL and its parent tumor of Syria and Iraq. But as we've seen, ISIS fighters are spreading all over the world in other countries. Why is that so important? Why so much of a focus there?

STARR: Well, you know, I think Senator McCain was making this point repeatedly. That, you know, he wanted to see a time line, an effort, a proposal to go and get ISIS out of Raqqa. That, of course, is their stronghold in Syria.

[10:35:12] Not likely that any fighters on the ground -- Arab fighters, Kurdish fighters -- anybody is really going to be able to take on Raqqa any time soon. But one of the big reasons you want to be able to show progress against that is ISIS' appeal around the world to fighters, to a large extent, is that it's invincible. That it has this apocalyptic version of the future, and it will achieve it. That it is victorious, and it's invincible.

If you can show vulnerability in places like Raqqa and Mosul, Iraq where they still do have an iron grip, that begins to chip away at their aura. That's one of the things the U.S. wants to try and do. But look, the reality is on the ground is they are a long ways from doing that any time soon.

BROWN: Right. And Phil, to that point, you know, the military is just one component of all of this. What else needs to be done to defeat ISIS as the President has said he will do and as the Defense Secretary has said that he will do?

MUDD: There's some issues you need to address on the ground in Syria. The first is -- and the President hasn't talked about this much -- if we want leverage to get Assad out so you can have some sort of political process, you're going to have to talk to the Russians. And right now we're sideways with the Russians on what to do about the future of Assad.

We don't want military forces in there unilaterally, I don't think, without a plan for what the end game is. On the periphery and the conversation about whether we're winning partly is some confusion about how ISIS is expanding out of Syria and Iraq where they're gaining, and how they're expanding in Syria and Iraq where they're losing, in my judgment. The conversation's going to have to expand to places like Libya,

places like Yemen. When we see ISIS go to other areas, how do we engage the U.S. military to bring capability to areas where there's not much military capability. And do we want to continue killing people on the battlefield in places we're not at war like Libya?

I think the answer is yes, but overall, that's going to take 20, 30 years to execute that enabling local forces while we continue to kill ISIS leaders who have moved out of places like Syria and Iraq.

BROWN: All right. Phil Mudd, we'll leave it there -- thank you much. Peter Mansour, Barbara Starr -- appreciate it. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:41:46] BROWN: Well, the debate over how to fight the war on ISIS is causing a rift in the Republican Party as backlash grows over Donald Trump's call for a temporary ban on Muslims entering the U.S. The "Wall Street Journal" saying Trump's remarks have triggered a brawl between his supporters and party leaders. And it comes as a new poll shows that more than two-thirds of Trump's supporters would follow the Republican front-runner if he left the party and mounted a third-party bid. And Trump speaking out this morning on the possibility of that bid.

CNN's Sara Murray has more. So what is he saying, Sara?

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right -- Pam. You know, even though so many Republicans and even Democrats have been outraged by Trump's proposal, he does have his own trump card and that's holding out this idea of a third-party bid. Take a listen to what he had to say about that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, the Republican Party has been -- the people have been phenomenal. The party, I'll let you know about that. And if I don't get treated fairly I would certainly consider that. In fact, they did a poll in one of the -- I think it was "USA Today" where they said 68 percent of the people that were Republicans would follow Trump if he went independent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, that poll he was referring to is relatively small sample size, but it does give you an idea of the bind that the Republican Party is in.

Even though they really don't agree with Trump's rhetoric on this specific issue of banning Muslims, they definitely don't want to inspire him to mount a third-party challenge. When you talk to Republicans, a lot of them feel like that would be a guarantee for Hillary Clinton to walk away with a presidential win come November if you have a Republican, an Independent Donald Trump, and Hillary Clinton all pitted against one another -- Pam.

BROWN: Yes. And it sounded like Trump was sort of leaving open the possibility that he could run as an Independent, saying if I'm not treated fairly, that's what I'm going to do.

There's been such widespread GOP backlash, but not everyone is criticizing those remarks, including conservative radio hosts, right, Sara?

MURRAY: Yes, that's absolutely right. There are a number of conservative radio hosts, particularly in places like Iowa, and that's really, you know, who Trump is trying to appeal to when he makes comments like this, are these core conservatives in Iowa.

And look, that's also the reason that Ted Cruz hasn't been very critical of Trump's comments. He said I disagree with them, but I'm not going to take on Trump because I want to win over his supporters and Ben Carson's supporters and Marco Rubio's supporters.

And so that's sort of the situation we're in right now. You know, even though we might have Republican Party leaders here in Washington and even in some of the early states saying this does not reflect what our party is about or what our country is about, there are a lot of voters -- conservative voters who feel differently.

BROWN: All right, Sara Murray -- thank you very much.

MURRAY: Thank you.

BROWN: And a quick programming note. Donald Trump will join my colleague Don Lemon this evening on "CNN TONIGHT". It all begins at 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

And we're less than a week away from the last GOP debate of 2015. The stage is being set for Iowa. Who makes it to ours? Find out as Wolf Blitzer moderates the next Republican National Committee debate next Tuesday at 6:00 and 8:30 p.m.

[10:44:46] And still ahead, the FBI chief on the hot seat. Lawmakers want to know, is the agency doing enough in the fight against terrorism?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Right now to the war on terror. The director of the FBI, James Comey, is testifying on Capitol Hill. His focus, of course: the threat of foreign fighters, ISIS recruitment, and the U.S. strategy against the terrorist group.

Let's get straight to CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez. Evan, Director Comey just made some news about the San Bernardino attacks and when the couple was radicalized, right?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right -- Pamela. This is along the lines of what you and I have been reporting over the last couple of days, that really the radicalization of these two San Bernardino killers began much earlier than even when she came to this country when she immigrated to this under a fiancee visa in 2014.

Apparently, according to the FBI director, they've now found indication that this goes back all the way to 2013.

Here take a listen to what he had to say today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:49:58] JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: -- investigation to date which I can only say so much about at this point indicates that they were actually radicalized before they started courting or dating each other online. And online as early as the end of 2013, they were talking to each other about jihad and martyrdom before they became engaged and then married and lived together in the United States.

We also believe they were inspired by foreign terrorist organizations. We're working very hard to understand exactly their association and the source of their inspiration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And Pamela, that one part of his comments there, I think, really point to a key part of this investigation, which is as much as we know on the day of the attack, they posted this posting on Facebook saying that they were doing this in the name of the leader of ISIS.

The FBI is still trying to figure out what else might have inspired them because clearly if they're talking about jihad in 2013, that's even before ISIS really becomes known to everyone and especially for these two people. So clearly there was other influences at work well before ISIS came on the scene.

BROWN: And what's so interesting, too, is he's saying they were in communication talking about jihad before Tashfeen Malik, his wife, was approved to get a visa to come to the U.S. How concerning is that?

PEREZ: Right. Right, exactly. And really how do you catch that? I mean you can do all the monitoring you can, you want, and if someone is really not showing up on your radar, then how are you supposed to catch these online chats where you're talking about jihad? Again, that stuff, even if you're just talking about it, it's protected speech until you actually try to do something.

And also a key part of Jim Comey's testimony today is talking about trying to figure out whether they had other plans, bigger plans, either that day or perhaps at other times. And so that's another part of the mystery that the FBI is trying to unravel -- Pamela.

BROWN: Yes, because we know he had a cache of bombs and other weapons in his house.

PEREZ: Right.

BROWN: Evan Perez -- thank you very much.

PEREZ: Sure.

BROWN: And coming up in the NEWSROOM, he's owning it. Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel facing city council and the growing controversy surrounding the city's police department.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:30] BROWN: Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel says he owns it when it comes to the misconduct in the city's police department. The embattled mayor just went before the city council in a special session to talk about the problems in the city's police force. He says the police department failed Laquan McDonald and other victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR RAHM EMANUEL (D), CHICATO: What happened on October 20th, 2014 should never have happened. Supervision and leadership in the police department and the oversight agencies that were in place failed. And that has to change.

I am the mayor. As I said the other day, I own it. I take responsibility for what happened because it happened on my watch. And if we're going to fix it, I want you to understand it's my responsibility with you. But if we're also going to begin the healing process, the first step in that journey is my step, and I'm sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Our Ryan Young joins us now from Chicago by phone. Ryan, this seems like a pretty big admission. Was it expected?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I don't know if anyone expected what we just heard -- Pamela. Honestly, there was a lot of emotion here in this city council chambers. There were some people who obviously were agreeing with the mayor. There were some people who obviously were in step with some of the things he had to say.

You actually hear some protesters screaming from outside as he was talking. So I think there was a moment of reflection when he was talking about how police officers treat people. And one young man who used to be a gang member asked if he ever thought that the mayor was accused (inaudible). And the mayor gave the honest answer saying I don't think I can take it the way you are.

And I think there was a bit of silence here in the hallway and in the room when he said that. You could actually see him get pretty emotional during parts of the speech. Open moments of reflection, quite honestly. There's been a lot of people looking to see what changes would happen over the next few weeks after the Laquan McDonald video was released.

But they were asking for more. And when you hear what he had to say, this has to be the most open and honest, a lot of people -- the reflection you heard in the chambers since this whole thing started. The idea of trying to regain people's trust and making sure that communities feel like the police department is here for them is something that a lot of people were looking to hear.

Conversely, he even talked about the fact that there are young men who are joining gangs who thought that's their only option and that has to change. You know, to be honest, you think about a city like this that's facing so many challenges -- over 2,000 shootings, almost 400 murders. So obviously, there's a gun violence issue here.

I'm sorry if you hear that noise in the background. City council is getting ready to get started again. But we are in the back of the chamber, and people are essentially sort of giving their reactions to what the mayor had to say.

It's been kind of astounding to see people's clap, some people stood afterwards. You heard people in the background talking about they want to hear more about what could change, and they want to hear parameters for what we'll see a month from now, two months from now.

[11:00:00] But guys, I'm going to step out of this hallway and just wanted to give you this quick update as we get ready for city council to start again.

BROWN: Ryan Young, thank you so much.

And thank you for being here with me today. I'm Pamela Brown in for Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.