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Terror Plot in 2012; Baltimore Officer Takes Stand; Scalia Sparks Controversy with Comment on "Lesser Colleges"; "South Park" Takes on Gun Control. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 10, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:04] SGT. BOWE BERGDAHL, U.S. ARMY (voice-over): And you can't -- like I can't scream. I can't risk that. So it's like you're standing there screaming in your minds. In this room, you're standing like in this blackened dirt room that's tiny. And just on the other side of that flimsy little door -- wooden door that you could probably easily rip off the hinges is the entire world out there. It is everything that you're missing. It is everybody. Everyone is out there. You know, that breath that you're trying to breathe. That -- that -- that release that you're trying to get, everything is beyond that door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile a new congressional report accuses President Obama of breaking the law to negotiate the deal that set Bergdahl free. GOP lawmakers say the president not only sidestepped Congress, but quietly negotiated his release for political gain.

Well, good morning to you. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Carol Costello. Thank you so much for being here with me on this Thursday.

And this morning we are learning new details about the man police say bought two automatic rifles that were used to gun down 14 people during that ISIS-linked shooting in San Bernardino. Right now investigators are combing through evidence trying to figure out what role Enrique Marquez, a former friend and neighbor shooter of Syed Rizwan Farook, may have played. Marquez has told officials he and Farook hatched a terror plot in 2012.

So how did a man who neighbors describe as a good guy and who once worked on cars as a hobby help hatch a terror plot? Let's ask Lorenzo Vidino. He's the director of George Washington University's program on extremism.

Thank you for being here with us.

This -- this is really interesting because you have this former friend of Farook who became radical -- actually converted to Islam and became radicalized in that same year according to sources I've been speaking with. But next year he has this plan with Farook to launch a terror attack. Does this fit the profile of someone who was radicalized?

LORENZO VIDINO: Well, there's no such thing as the profile. I think that's the reality we are starting to see when we look at who synthesizes with ISIS. If we look -- or any other groups, any of the jihadist groups, or the radicalization of the Marquez and Farook predates ISIS. But really the kind of people that are attracted in the U.S. to this ideology range from teenage girls to 40-year-old men. Some of them are converts. Forty percent of the people arrested for ISIS related activities in the U.S. are converts. Some of them of Latino background. Most of those -- these people are actually quite well integrated, adjusted, kind of your next door neighbor. Some of them are petty criminals and drifters. So, honestly, at this stage, I think nothing really surprises us.

BROWN: Yes, it really runs the gamut. And we should mention that Marquez, he has not been charged. He said he did not have any knowledge of the San Bernardino attack. But on what you were just talking about, looking at the -- sort of the wide swath of people attracted to ISIS, according to a recent study by George Washington University, calls ISIS in America, from re-tweets to Raqqa, these have been the individuals attracted to ISIS. At least 56 we know have been arrested for ISIS related activities just this year. That's the largest number of terror arrests in a single year since 9/11. The report also found that the average age of an American ISIS supporter is 26 and that the majority are male. Forty percent of individuals arrested are converts. And more than half attempted or successfully traveled overseas. But it's also interesting that women seem to be playing a larger role now in terrorism.

VIDINO: Oh, absolutely. If -- if it's true that only a few of the individuals arrested are female, in that study that you just mentioned, we also looked at the ISIS synthesizing scene online, especially on Twitter and we followed some 300 accounts. And I would say about a third of them are women. And they actually tend to be the most prolific, the most radical. So it's really something that women have been involved for a long time. And we see those in -- in a European setting.

If you look at both Paris attacks, for example, January one and the November one, women played a -- played a key role. They were part of it. Also from an operational point of view. And we have seen that in the states as well. A have a few females from the U.S., one from Alabama, one from Tennessee, who have gone to Syria and have joined ISIS, have married ISIS fighters, and they are active online. You can actually follow them on Twitter, as odd as that sounds. And they are talking about, you know, how they want to destroy America. One of them is from Chattanooga, Tennessee. And when the attack in Chattanooga took place last July, she was happy and she was saying -- she was tweeting out how happy she was that her hometown, which was full of infidels, was being hit.

BROWN: Wow. And a lot of these women, I mean, they're young. Some of them are teenagers. It's incredible. The report also describes how ISIS online communications are an echo chamber. How is the terror group so effective in reaching and turning young people to sort of join their cause?

VIDINO: Well, ISIS has been very good at using social media. I think it has a powerful message. I mean what it has done, the creation of the caliphate, is something unique. And that by itself, even without social media, such a powerful message. But it has amplified its achievements by using social media and reaching out to people.

[09:35:14] Extremist ideas have always been around, but if you were, you know, an American living in rural Mississippi 40 years ago, you would have no way of connecting to a group like ISIS in the Middle East. Today, that's easy. That's possible. You can talk to people in ISIS from your parents basement in the middle of nowhere. So that's -- that connectivity, that diversity of messages that ISIS sends out that appeal to these very diverse group of people, that's really one of the major successes of ISIS' ability to mobilize so many people in the U.S.

BROWN: Right. And what I find so interesting about the San Bernardino case is that the couple was radicalized years ago according to the FBI, before ISIS had even proclaimed its caliphate. So clearly there were other influences. Yet right before the attack, they pledged allegiance to al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, online. What do you make of that?

VIDINO: Well, we have seen a few people who are -- who have long been interested in -- let's call it jihadist ideology. A few years ago al Qaeda was sort of the stand -- the most important group of that movement. ISIS comes as sort of an off chute of al Qaeda. Now it's competing with al Qaeda. It has definitely overpowered al Qaeda. It is the coolest brand in the jihadist world. So if you were just a follower of that ideology five years ago, you would interested in al Qaeda. Today you just follow the most powerful part of that movement. So today a lot of people who have been sort of second tier followers of al Qaeda, al Shabaab, the Taliban, these groups today, they all follow ISIS because what ISIS had achieved on the ground is unique and has sort of out powered all the other groups.

BROWN: All right, Lorenzo Vidino, thank you very much.

VIDINO: My pleasure.

BROWN: And still to come right here in NEWSROOM, Baltimore Police Officer William Porter is on trial for the death of Freddie Gray, but did the two meet before that fateful day?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:41:27] BROWN: Well, the first of six officers on trial for the death of Freddie Gray takes the stand in Baltimore. Officer William Porter testifying in his own defense, telling jurors that not only did he know Gray before the fatal arrest, but the two had a, quote, "mutual respect."

Jean Casarez is outside the courtroom for us this morning.

Jean, what exactly does this mean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Pam, well, he -- it's exactly what police officers want done in communities, for officers to get to know the people as they patrol the neighborhoods. And he was a patrol officer for the west Baltimore, right here in Baltimore City, and so he knew people. He could call them by their first names. And so he said that they had a mutual respect and at times they would just stand there and talk to each other.

But when William Porter was called to the stand, there was that silence in the courtroom, which there always is when the defendant goes up there. And as he testified, first of all his demeanor, he was down to earth. He -- there was not an attitude. He seemed young. He seemed just giving the answers. And even on cross-examination, about the same personality.

But I think the two most important points of the defense he made was that, number one, he didn't call a medic. He admitted it. He said that he told the driver of the van that he wants a medic but he didn't call one. He say, why? Because he couldn't find out why Freddie Gray needed a medic. And he'd had interactions with Gray before where there had been this jail-litus (ph) situation where he didn't want to go to jail. He didn't see any outward injuries. That's why he didn't call a medic because medics want to know, why do we need to transport somebody.

He said that he didn't seat belt him because of numerous things. He said he was taught in the academy you're supposed to seat belt somebody. But when he went for field training at the police academy, they never taught anybody how to seat belt someone in. He never saw it done. And he said also that because it was so narrow in there, and we know it was 17 inches inside that police van from bench to bench, that his weapon would have been exposed to anybody he's transporting and he felt that was too great of a risk right there.

Now, on cross-examination, I think the strongest point that the prosecutor made, they tried to get the defendant to admit that at that fourth stop, that Freddie Gray said, I can't breathe. Because originally the lead investigator put that in her notes. It's not in the videotaped statement. But he continually said, I did not say at that point that Freddie Gray said he couldn't breathe. And, of course, Vincent DiMaio, noted forensic pathologist for the defense said and testified, this is an accident. It's not a homicide. He based it on the National Association of Medical Examiners, saying that a homicide is the volitional act, not an omission but an act, to cause death or serious bodily injury.

Pam.

BROWN: All right, Jean Casarez, thank you for that. Appreciate it.

And coming up right here in the NEWSROOM, a Supreme Court justice's comments during an affirmative action case gets a strong reaction. What he said, up next.

[09:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A Supreme Court justice sparking controversy during a hearing of a high profile affirmative action case. Justice Antonin Scalia seemed to suggest that some African-Americans might do better in lesser colleges, saying, quote, "There are those who contend that it does not benefit African-Americans to get them into the University of Texas, where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less advanced school a less -- a slower track school where they do well."

He went to say that, "One of the briefs pointed out that most of the black scientists in this country don't come from schools like the University of Texas. They come from schools where they do not feel that they're being pushed ahead in classes that are too fast for them."

Well, Scalia was citing a theory in this book. It's entitled "Mismatch". But some feel like he was using to it make his own argument. And Twitter ignited, no surprise there. One tweet threadcalling for his impeachment. Actress Rashida Jones said, "He is saying that black people should go to, quote, 'lesser colleges' because they can't keep up. That is a generalization of a race."

With me now to discuss all of this is CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson.

[09:50:03] Joey, a lot to discuss here. First off, what is your reaction to what Scalia said?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Pamela. Well, here's the issue. The issue for me is whether he was referencing something when he says, "Those that contend", which is a theory, which obviously in itself is a concern, because it's insulting and it's degrading. And the other concern is his him referencing a brief. So the concern is whether it was coming from him and reflects his state of mind or whether he was simply referencing a theory which, in itself, I think, needs to certainly be rebuked.

And so I don't know what was in the mind of the Supreme Court justice. Obviously, if he felt this way, it is a major, major concern.

BROWN: And he did say in his comments, he pointed to one of the briefs making his mismatch argument. And also we know this book has existed. Let's talk about that book, entitled "Mismatch". And here's what the theory is about. It argues that some minority students at competitive universities fare worse academically than they would at less selective institutions. Is affirmative action actually hurting students?

JACKSON: Well, let's put it this way -- let's be clear that that is simply a theory that was advanced by Professor Sander. That theory certainly has a contrary point of view by a Yale professor that came out, in addition to many others that said, of course it's not hurting. Of course, the fact of the matter is this is insulting, that this is not something that's subscribed to by a majority, a variety of people.

The fact is that the other point of view is that there are many points to affirmative action, one of which is cultural diversity. We have to keep in mind that cultural diversity benefits us all, learning about different people, supporting different points of view, being more tolerant with people. And, obviously, there is the point that affirmative action lends an assistance to an underrepresented point of society that has systemically, historically been underrepresented.

And so let's be clear. The Supreme Court has said that race can be a factor, not the factor. But when you're looking at someone's race, you should factor in other things like extracurricular activities, like the hardships in the background, and like other factors that lead assistance to those who can ultimately uplift themselves and be very productive and outstanding members of society.

BROWN: And that is really at the heart of this case that the Supreme Court is reviewing for the second time. Joey Jackson, thank you very much.

JACKSON: Thank you.

BROWN: And still to come, one of TV's longest running comedies focuses on gun control. We take a look at "South Park's" take on the controversial topic. Up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:56:48] BROWN: Well, the always controversial "South Park" is at it again. This time the animated series is taking on gun control. Here's a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's way to know who we can trust.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what do we do now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's only one thing we can do. We have to get guns.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guns?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the only way for us to be safe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How? Even if we thought it could help protect us, how are we all going to get our hands on guns?

All right, cool, we got guns. So now what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I already feel a lot safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, to discuss this CNN's Brian Stelter joins us now. What has the reaction been, Brian, to this latest episode?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: "South Park" is very good at stoking controversy. This was the season finale and all this season they've been going after politically correct culture, saying that PC culture is destroying America. Well, here in the finale, they're going after issues around guns. Here's another clip actually involving children and guns from last

night's episode.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told you to go upstairs right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Mom, what the hell?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not going to tell you again, Eric, it is time for night-night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom, put down your gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am your mother and you will do what I tell you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I am going.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, then, you go right now, mister.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to bed, Mom. Chillax.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, then, no comic books. Just straight to sleep. I love you, sweetie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I love you too, mom. Night-night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow, he -- he listened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: So it's kind of like a Rorschach test. You can take away whatever you want from it> You might think, oh, typical Hollywood liberals making arguments about how ugly it is when everyone has guns. But actually there was no horrible shootout, there was no, you know, violent incident in the episode which would -- I see some conservative blogs cheering this morning, saying that liberals didn't get the moment they wanted from this show.

You know, Pamela, I know it's simply a silly comedy, it's a bunch of cartoon characters, but it is the closest thing to political cartooning on TV. Because the creators make these episodes so quickly, they actually produce them just days ahead of time so they're very topical. And there is something for everyone in this season finale.

BROWN: Huh, I didn't realize that. And there's also some other highly contentious issues and topics that this season tackles. Really quickly, what are those?

STELTER: Well, early on in the season they were mocking Donald Trump. And that continued later in the season. They also made Caitlyn Jenner a character in this season and she was in this finale last night. So this show, because it's able to produce episodes so quickly and then put them on TV and put them online, they're able to react to what's in the news. And that's one of the things that makes this show special. It's been on the air 19 years. Some might people think, oh, it's just a silly comedy but it actually does touch on a lot of political issues. And there is some actually pretty piercing political satire from "South Park" of all places.

BROWN: Yes, we just saw it in those clips.

All right, Brian Stelter, thank you.

STELTER: Thank you.

BROWN: And the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

(MUSIC)

BROWN: And good morning to you. I'm Pamela Brown in for Carol Costello. Thanks for being here with me.

And this morning Donald Trump finds himself in a very familiar place, sitting right atop the polls as controversy swirls around him. A survey from CBS and "The New York Times" shows Trump with a more than two to one margin over his nearest competitors.

[10:00:04] Trump coming in at 35 percent while Ted Cruz is in second place with 16 percent. Ben Carson tumbling to third.