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Plot in Switzerland; Trump Dominates Rivals; CAIR Office Evacuated; Convicted Terrorist Link; Bergdahl Speaks Out. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired December 10, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:17] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brooke Baldwin and you're watching CNN.

I want to begin with the breaking news involving this frantic manhunt for terror suspects on the loose and they are linked to the attacks in Paris. We're talking specifically today about Geneva, Switzerland. You can see the map, Geneva, not too far at all from Paris. And right now the city in Switzerland is on high alert as security officials there say they have gotten, quote, "a vague threat." They've gone from a vague threat to a precise threat. Police are searching for five suspects possibly connected to the attacks last month that killed 130 people in France.

So let's get right to Paul Cruickshank, our CNN terrorism analyst.

And, Paul, first, let me just ask you about, when we hear specific or precise threat, what does that mean?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, in this case, the specific part of it, Brooke, is that there are five individuals that they're looking for in Geneva and the surrounding area around Geneva, that they're very worried about. Their worried that they could be a threat within Geneva itself, could be a threat potentially to international organizations, the U.N. They're ramping up security there. Also at the airports.

There seems to be some concern, according to local media, that a U.N. meeting tomorrow between the Americans and the Brits and others related to Syria could be some kind of target. A lot of this is not clear yet at this point.

But we're learning at CNN that this group of five individuals believed to be linked to a recruiter for the Syrian jihad who is the guy who recruited one of the attackers at the Bataclan in Paris. So that's the connection to Paris, the recruiter being somebody called Murad Farez (ph), who is in jail in France right now but recruited a lot of people from France and Switzerland to go off and fight in Syria.

What we're also finding out now, what we're being told by sources is that these individuals, that they're trying to find in Switzerland, could also be some kind of threat to cities in the United States. The Swiss have been told this. In fact, they - we're being told they were alerted about these individuals from the American intelligence services. And the American intelligence services seem to have some kind of information suggesting there is some kind of threat nexus back to the United States as well.

What does that all mean? It's not completely clear right now.

KEILAR: Right. Some kind of threat. My goodness.

CRUICKSHANK: Maybe they have some kind of aspirational plans. Maybe they were overheard talking about American cities. Not clear at all at this point. We're trying to sort that out. We're trying to talk to our sources on this, Brooke.

But the epicenter of this threat right now in Geneva, a group of extremists, five individuals they are looking for. Four of those individuals we understand were identified by U.S. intelligence services, it appears by the CIA.

BALDWIN: As soon as you get more, obviously, Paul, people's ears perking here in the U.S. when we hear some kind of threat to cities in the United States as the hunt is on for these individuals in the Geneva, Switzerland, area.

Paul Cruickshank, thank you so much. I'm sure we'll talk again.

Meantime to politics we go here. Check the calendar. It seems as the primary contest get closer and closer, Donald Trump's lead is getting stronger and stronger. Check the polls. Less than two weeks to - months to go until the Iowa caucus, remember that's February 1, a new poll finds Donald Trump has a whopping 35 percent of the Republican vote. More than double that of his closest competitor, Senator Ted Cruz. We should note that most of this poll was taken before Donald Trump pushed his plan to ban all Muslims from entering the United States, a plan he further clarified last night with my colleague, Don Lemon. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As you know, I have many friends who are Muslim that are phenomenal people. They are so happy at what I'm doing.

DON LEMON, CNN: This doesn't apply to U.S. citizens?

TRUMP: It never did. From day one it never did. I don't know why people thought it did. This applies to people coming into the country and all it is, is a break until our politicians, who are grossly incompetent by the way, can get their act together.

LEMON: What exactly does that mean? Figure out what? What is there to figure out?

TRUMP: Why is there such hatred and such viciousness? Why is somebody willing to fly airplanes into the World Trade Center and go after even prior to that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, CNN political director David Chalian and CNN political commentator and veteran investigative journalist Carl Bernstein, who's also the author of "A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton."

[14:05:05] Gentlemen, great to have you.

Let's get to you, Carl Bernstein, with you up first. I mean when you look at the calendar, listen, we're six weeks away from Iowa. Holiday hibernation is about to, if not already, you know, a little bit, setting in. And with the look of that poll, Trump is undeniably the favorite right now.

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, something dangerous is happening in America and the agenda of one of the two political parties and the arguments have been driven by a celebrity crypto fascist and the media has gone along with this debate. Finally there's some real pushback by the media and by people within the Republican Party in the last couple days, but it's very late in the game in terms of the cultural impact, though it's a very long time till the election.

BALDWIN: Will there be more pushback? I mean you call - you call him a celebrity crypto fascist. Do you think there will be additional pushback the further along this goes?

BERNSTEIN: It's starting now, but it doesn't mean that the damage to our culture hasn't been done. That we now have 35 percent of the voters in one party, plus another 15 percent who embrace Carson's ideas, who go along with an agenda that really is about exclusion, bigotry, fascism. We haven't had this in our country really going back for several generations, and it's terribly - it's serious and it's terribly dangerous.

BALDWIN: David, so with everything Carl just said, I mean with you - with the Republicans here, excluding Trump, what are they - what's brewing? Would you have like a soft political coup here, a take down? I mean what do they do?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I have not seen any evidence over the course of the last six months or so that Trump has been leading here that any attempt sort of from the establishment side or from the other candidates to try to take him down has any kind of effect. Now, granted we haven't seen sort of a full onslaught of hundreds of millions of dollars of television ads, but everything Donald Trump has showed us so far, Brooke, indicates to me that he's not susceptible, he's not vulnerable to that kind of traditional political attack. In fact, I think it only emboldens his supporters when he does come under that kind of attack.

BALDWIN: To me it's like when you read all about this, and I've been on vacation in like a dark hole for the last couple of days and I've been catching up on all of this and it's like, I don't know if this is more about Trump or about our country and about how people feel, not just the Washington inside the beltway, but elsewhere, Carl Bernstein.

BERNSTEIN: Yes. This is about the people of the country and their grievances. There's an awful lot of no nothingness involved in this. It's about people who want something outside the established order and they're moving increasingly towards authoritarian ideas and solutions that are proposed by a celebrity who we in the media are enabling. We're not giving anything like equal time to the other candidates. We have promoted the circus. We provided three rings. And it is a very self-destructive circus and it's time we started talking about ideas.

BALDWIN: I'm listening to you very closely, Carl. David -

CHALIAN: I don't - I'm not sure that it's just the media here, Carl.

BALDWIN: Yes, respond to that.

CHALIAN: I don't think it is. I think that - that misses like the voters we saw this morning on "New Day" with Alisyn Camerota who were supporting Donald Trump that there is a - he is tapping into something -

BALDWIN: He is.

CHALIAN: Inside the Republican Party mostly right now that is real. That is -

BERNSTEIN: It's not just inside the Republican Party.

CHALIAN: And it's galvanizing support.

BERNSTEIN: It's not just inside the Republican Party. There is a deep vein of legitimate frustration in this country today, economically, about stasis in the political system -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: About our national security, about the failure actually of the left and the center left and parts of the Democratic establishment to start calling Islamic terrorism by name and what it represents. And at the same time, this has been amplified by a demagogic and fascist, I keep using that word, a word that's been thrown around much too much in our culture until now because now it's applicable to what we're seeing, about a desire for a kind of nationalistic authoritarianism that is antithetical to everything both political parties have stood for in the past but now is being embraced, not just by Donald Trump, but by several of the other candidates in many of their pronouncements who haven't distanced themselves from Trump and have been driven by his ideas.

BALDWIN: David, let me - let me jump in. Let me just ask you this, because a lot of people are talking about, OK, well, maybe Trump could run as an independent. But if you flip the script, let's say he wins the Republican nomination, could there, would there be a push that a Republican candidate could then make a third-party run?

CHALIAN: I don't think there would be an effective push for that. And no - none of the Republican candidates that have been on stage have indicated that they would try to do that. But I also don't think that - if you have not been able to galvanize support in one of the great, major political parties in our country to take down Donald Trump, I don't know that your - that with all of the challenges there are in running as an independent or a third-party to begin with in our system, Brooke, if one of these failed candidates would then be able to actually take him down from outside that system. That - that doesn't seem to be a plausible outcome to me.

[14:10:27] BALDWIN: David, we're days away, all of us, from jumping on a plane and heading to Las Vegas for what will be a massive, massive Republican debate. I'm curious, of everyone who will be on the stage, who do you think has the most to lose?

CHALIAN: Oh, man, that is a good question. I mean, obviously, if you're the dominant front-runner like Donald Trump, you always have the most to lose because he's - he's holding the most shares right now. But I think that the stakes are high for many of them because, remember, this is now so close to the voting, the debate will be six weeks away from the voting, Brooke, and in entirely new, shifted landscape of a news environment, post-Paris, post-San Bernardino. This is a commander-in-chief test and I think the stakes are going to be incredibly high for everyone on that stage.

BALDWIN: Agree. Agree.

David Chalian and Carl Bernstein, thank you so, so much.

BERNSTEIN: Good to be here.

BALDWIN: Again, a reminder, we are days away, we're five days away from that next Republican debate. The stakes are huge. The final Republican debate of the year. Tuesday, December 15th, 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

Also today we have some breaking news as we are learning the national office for the Muslim group CAIR has been evacuated here in Washington. A foreign substance was apparently received in the mail. More on that in a moment.

But first, also more breaking news involving the San Bernardino killers. One of the shooters linked to a convicted terrorist. Plus, new questions about whether a terror group arranged their marriage.

Also today, Bowe Bergdahl in his own words. For the very first time, we are hearing his reasons for leaving his Army outpost, eventually becoming a Taliban hostage. Why he brings up the movie character Jason Bourne.

And outrage erupts over this picture. Have you seen this? These are citadel cadets with white pillow cases over their heads. We've got the back story for you and the response.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [14:16:43] BALDWIN: I'm Brooke Baldwin. Got some more breaking news for you here out of Washington, D.C., pertaining to really one of the nation's foremost Muslim advocacy groups based here in the nation's capital, CAIR. Our justice correspondent, Evan Perez, is coming up on what's happening there.

What's going on?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Brooke, we know that the offices of the Council on American Islamic Relations, better known as CAIR, had been evacuated because they received some type of foreign substance in something received in the mail. And so now just a short while ago, as a matter of fact, we saw hazmat crews heading in the direction of the CAIR offices. It appears now that the authorities there are trying to figure out what this substance is.

This is, obviously, the largest Muslim advocacy group in this country and it has been the subject of numerous threats over the years. So this perhaps is a reaction to some of the rhetoric we've been hearing. But right now they've been taken out of their office. They just tweeted that out. We also talked to them. They say that they're waiting to hear what exactly this is and when they'll be allowed back into their building.

BALDWIN: OK, we'll stay on that and follow it, obviously, Evan. But let me keep you because you also have some new developments today pertaining to the San Bernardino attack because we know the FBI may have uncovered this link between the shooter and an American terrorist currently serving 25 years behind bars. We know investigators are taking a new look into the ringleader of this terror group arrested in Riverside, California. This was back in 2012. Group plotted to travel to Afghanistan, to join al Qaeda and target American military bases there. And so tell me what - who is this group and how may this husband killer been involved there?

PEREZ: Well, Brooke, his name is - the name of this recruiter, who was the leader of this group that was - that was arrested back in 2012, his name is Sohiel Kabir. He actually served in the U.S. military for a short period. And according to the FBI, he was this charismatic figure, was very influential in recruiting, radicalizing this group that was arrested. There were four of them that were arrested, five in all that were being investigated.

And now what they have found, what the FBI has found, is that there are links between that group and Syed Farook, the shooter, one of the shooters in San Bernardino. Here's the link. They found that Farook was part of the social circle of Kabir, who is now sentenced to 25 years in prison. He was sentenced earlier this year. And so now the question that the FBI wants to know is, who else might be involved. Obviously, there's the question of there being a network that perhaps included Farook at the didn't notice at the time of this 2012 case. It's something now the FBI is certainly going back over that case, looking at everybody who was investigated there. The fifth person who was never arrested is now also obviously going to be questioned again.

And the FBI wants to know who else might be out there. They want to know whether or not this was part of a larger network because, again, we still don't know a lot about what was driving Farook, how far back this goes. We know at least to 2013, perhaps 2011.

BALDWIN: Yes.

PEREZ: Did it begin earlier?

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. I mean FBI going over a lot, I'm sure, and chasing a lot of threads. I know that Senator Lindsey Graham, he was, you know, in many questions asked to FBI Director James Comey yesterday, asked about, you know, what he called a game changer.

PEREZ: Right.

[14:20:07] BALDWIN: Here's that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Is there any evidence that this marriage was arranged by a terrorist organization or terrorist operative or was it just a meeting on the Internet?

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: I don't know the answer to that yet.

GRAHAM: Do you agree with me that if it was arranged by a terrorist operative organization, that's a game changer?

COMEY: It would be a very, very important thing to know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Evan, I mean what is the possibility the terror groups like ISIS could be playing matchmaker?

PEREZ: You know, so far they have not found any indication of that, but that is definitely at the top of everybody's mind. Look, it probably isn't ISIS because at the time that these two were meeting online and talking about jihad and martyrdom back in 2013, ISIS was still not really a big thing, was not well-known and so it's probably not. But it appears, as happens, as, Brooke, you've noticed, many of these stories, you've covered many of these stories and you've noticed that these guys tend to, you know, pick and choose among the different types of radicalization. They might be influenced by al Qaeda one minute and then end up doing something on behalf of ISIS. It's really - they mix and match so to speak and there's really not much that can explain it really to us, right? But at the time, certainly, it appears that some of this radicalization was already part of Farook's background and so now they want to know who else was part of this.

BALDWIN: Yes. I don't think anything can fully explain how they - how they could murder those 14 people.

PEREZ: Right. Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Evan Perez, thank you so much, our justice correspondent here in Washington. And before we go to break, I just wanted to share this with you today. This is just a rare moment on the streets of Paris. Madonna surprised fans. She was there. She surprised fans with this impromptu performance just last night outside one of the memorials for victims of last month's terror attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD (singing): All the people living life in peace, you may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you'll join us and the world will live as one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:26:50] BALDWIN: For the first time in his now six year saga we are hearing directly from former Taliban captive, Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl, on why he left his post in Afghanistan back in 2009. You know the story, he has been charged with desertion for leaving and endangering his unit. But in this new released episode of the "Serial" podcast, Bergdahl says he left to save his fellow soldiers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. BOWE BERGDAHL (voice-over): And what I was seeing from my first unit all the way up into Afghanistan, all's I was seeing was basically leadership failure to the point that the lives of the guys standing next to me were literally, from what I could see, in danger of something seriously going wrong and somebody being killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There is so much to this. Bergdahl further explains he wanted to create a crisis by leaving his post, thus alerting multiple federal agencies, ultimately exposing that the leadership failure there. But he also revealed that he had another more personal motivation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERGDAHL: I was trying to prove to myself, I was trying to prove to the world, to anybody who used to know me that I was capable of, you know, being that person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like a super soldier, you mean?

BERGDAHL: Yes. I was capable of being what I appeared to be. Like doing what I did was me saying, I am -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

BERGDAHL: Like, I don't know, Jason Bourne.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

BERGDAHL: Right. So I had this - UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A character in a book or whatever. A character.

BERGDAHL: Yeah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Jason Bourne.

With me now, CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto and Anita Gorecki-Robbins, an Army senior defense council and a former federal prosecutor.

So, welcome to both of you.

And, Jim Sciutto, from what you have listened to thus far, what is the biggest revelation in all of this?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I think one of - one of the revelations is really just human. He's a kid from Idaho, right, who was in the mountains of western Afghanistan. He had a crisis and he made this decision, even described it as a fantastic decision, not meaning great, but I think out of fantasy, to walk off his outpost in an attempt to draw attention to what he called bad leadership on the site. And as he says in the interview, 20 minutes after he walked out, he knew he had made a mistake.

I think the other part is this, he spent five years in Taliban captivity, really in effect torture there, and you get a sense of just what that was like. The pain that he went through. Listen to his description of where he was kept during his captivity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERGDAHL: I can't scream. I can't risk that. So it's like you're standing there screaming in your mind in this room. You're standing like in this blackened dirt room that's tiny and just on the other side of that flimsy little door - wooden door, that you could probably easily rip off the hinges, is the entire world out there. It is everything that you're missing. It is everybody -- everyone is out there. You know, that breath that you're trying to breathe. That - that release that you're trying to get. Everything is beyond that door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:30:12] SCIUTTO: And he said he hates doors now because --