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Citadel Outrage; Trump's Lead Growing; Mass Shooting Investigation. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 10, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:00]

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I just got off the phone, Brooke, with the Department of Emergency Management there in the state of Arkansas. They are responding as well.

What they can tell us is that, earlier this afternoon, an individual was spotted on campus after crashing into a barrier. He was subsequently surrounded by local police. And he is currently, as we understand it, surrounded by police right now.

On that Twitter account of the university, they did call this an active shooter, though it is worth mentioning that no shots have been fired and we're not hearing of any injuries either at this time, no description of the suspect.

We did reach out to the university, our producer here, Devon Sayers, talking to campus officials. They do say that there has not been, as far as they know, any previous threat to the campus. But, again, right now, campus is on lockdown, no shots fired so far.

And this individual who crashed into a barrier there near the student union on campus has currently been surrounded by local agencies. There are also state agencies that are responding to this as well -- Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: OK. OK. Sounds like it's handled. Nick Valencia, let's stay in close contact. As soon as you get more, we will pop you back in front of a camera.

VALENCIA: You got it, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Meantime, more breaking news involving a frantic manhunt for these five terror suspects who are linked to the attacks in Paris. We're talking the hunt is in Geneva, Switzerland, for these five individuals.

Right now, they are on high alert there. Sources tell CNN that these individuals could be also some sort of threat to cities right here in the United States. Police in Geneva say they are possibly linked to this French national, Mourad Fares, a known recruiter for jihad in Syria.

He's said to have recruited the third attacker who is identified at Paris' Bataclan concert arena last month. Let's go to senior CNN senior international correspondent Clarissa

Ward, who is so familiar with all of this, having covered so much of this.

And so let's just begin with this recruiter, this French national. Who is he?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, what we know is that his name is Mourad Fares. He is believed to have been actively involved in recruiting quite a lot of men to go ahead and join the jihad in Syria.

We know that he's a French national. We know that he's spent time in prison. And, of course, it's no secret that France's prisons have typically been a really active area for recruitment. It's where the Kouachi brothers -- or at least one of the Kouachi brothers was recruited for the "Charlie Hebdo" attack.

Beyond that, we really don't know very much. We're getting a lot of small pieces of information coming in about what is happening in Geneva, this information coming from U.S. intelligence concerning a possible threat on U.S. citiz -- cities, rather, as well as attacks inside Switzerland.

And what you're seeing really, Brooke, is how this is spreading. These attacks started off, we were all in Paris and we were looking at Paris. Then we were looking at all of France. Then we were looking at Belgium. Now we're looking at Switzerland, Swiss media reporting that another two men are now being looked for.

They are believed to have entered into the country overnight. One of them is believed to be friends with Salah Abdeslam, the so-called eighth attacker, who is still at large. So essentially I think what you're seeing here are two things, first of all, how easy it is to move for these attackers, for these people who are on the loose, how easy it is for them to move across Europe with those free and open borders, and also giving you a sense of the more police pull on these threads, Brooke, the more they are realizing that there's a larger network out there and that there are more attacks planned.

BALDWIN: But it's new too, Clarissa, in the last hour that in addition to the fact that they're looking for these five suspects with this specific threat, I think the language is precise threat in Geneva, the fact that they could be linked to some kind of threat to cities in the United States. Do you know any more about that?

WARD: All we know is that it's believed that the information, as I said, came from U.S. intelligence and it's believed that it was based on intercepts. Intercepts obviously are one of the most key tools that U.S. intelligence has at its disposal.

And we know that in France, for example, and in Paris, a lot of information that led to that major raid in Saint-Denis, where the ringleader of the attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, was ultimately killed, were coming from cell phones, cell phones that the men had discarded, one of them in a garbage can in the suburb of Montrouge, so obviously cell phone intercepts are a very key tool for U.S. and European intelligence.

I think what we're also seeing here, Brooke, you heard President Obama in his speech the other day talking about how we need to improve and increase the amount of intelligence-sharing between U.S. and between Europe. I think you're clearly seeing here with this and what's going on in Geneva the beginning of that effort.

BALDWIN: Clarissa, the last time I saw you in person was in Paris, but you were there for weeks. And I'm wondering, are you surprised that all of these suspects, as you pointed out, you know, not only France and Belgium, but Switzerland, that these people weren't more on the radar?

[15:05:05]

WARD: It is surprising. And what you're realizing is that they were on the radar in certain countries.

But they don't -- so let me give you an example. A lot of these men were known to French authorities. French authorities had a red flag next to their names. They had gone to Syria. It was known that they joined radical groups and were fighting jihad in Syria.

(CROSSTALK)

WARD: But when they come back to Europe, they don't fly to France. They fly to Belgium or they fly to Latvia or they fly wherever they fly. They choose a different country, Germany, and then they drive, they make their way back to Belgium, back to France, and that has made it so difficult for not just French authorities, but all European border officials to try to get a sense of where these guys are and to try to lock down on their targets and to be able to follow them.

And as one French official told me, it's really impossible even within France. They have thousands of people on watch lists who they are trying to keep an eye on, let alone with these open, porous borders. And we heard President -- the French president Francois Hollande, say a month ago now that we need to have a system in place in Europe across the continent that's essentially a passenger sharing information network.

He said it needs in place by tend of the year. Clearly, what we're seeing in Geneva and how this investigation keeps spreading to more and more countries is a very good illustration of the need of that.

BALDWIN: Clarissa Ward, excellent having you on. Thank you very much, my friend. I appreciate it.

WARD: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Now to the terror case here at home. The FBI has uncovered this new link between San Bernardino shooter, the husband here, this killer couple, and a convicted American terrorist. Investigators are connecting the husband to this group of jihadists who were arrested in nearby Riverside, California. That was back in 2010, the ringleader of that group now serving 25 years behind bars. For more, let me bring in CNN intelligence security analyst, as well

as former CIA operative Bob Baer.

And, Bob, authorities never questioned this husband or his friend, this guy by the name of Enrique Marquez, at the time of the arrest, the Riverside group arrest. What does that tell you about, you know, the FBI investigation at the time?

BOB BAER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the FBI, of course, is devoted to this case, completely devoted. All agents are being called in. They are looking at all the data mining, they are looking at all the connections.

And, frankly, those connections don't mean much until there's been an event like San Bernardino. And so what we're seeing now is the fallout from this and they are doing a good job. And I think what we're coming to is a conclusion that there's a wider network. I don't think these people were witting their preparations for the attack against that target in San Bernardino, but the fact is they did draw on support and it was a recruiting network, if informal in the Imperial Valley. I think it's a pretty important one.

BALDWIN: It's an important one. I think the other bit of all this and I'm really honing in on this couple, right?

Then you had Comey, the head of the FBI, answering all these questions yesterday in D.C. saying, yes, the FBI of course is looking into whether this couple is -- I think it was his words, a couple match made in hell. The notion that a terror group would potentially arrange a marriage and thus infiltrate the U.S. using this K-1 fiancee visa system, you have been in this for years. Would that surprise you, Bob Baer?

BAER: Brooke, I'm going to go out on a limb again, as I usually do, and I will bet you that this girl was recruited either in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, got some sort of weapons training, was sent on a K-1 visa. K visas are very easy to get. They let you in the country for 90 days. You have to simply live with somebody to prove to CIS that you are actually -- you know, it's a real marriage.

It's easy to do. They can't really check on you all the time. In spite of having a child out of this marriage, I think it was...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: A child out of this marriage, even if it was arranged. Why? Sorry. I'm angry over this.

BAER: You know, I am too. I used to spend a lot of time on visa lines. There's no way to vet these people. You don't know what's in their minds when they come apply for a visa.

And let's not blame the State Department, let's not blame immigrations at all. And women make good suicide bombers, martyrs, if you like. I have seen it. I have seen cases in Israel where this couple, the husband -- the wife was having an affair the lover and the husband got together and they decided they were going to expunge this shame by sending this wife who had two children to blow herself up in Israel, and she did.

Anything is possible once you adopt this cult of death, this belief that martyrdom is the right way to go. So this doesn't surprise me at all.

[15:10:01]

BALDWIN: Bob Baer, I don't get it. I never want to get it. Thank you, as always. We will talk again, I am sure. Thank you, sir.

In the wake of the California terror attacks, gun sales in the United States, by the way, they are up, up, up. Down in Brevard County, Florida, there's even a call to arms from the sheriff there, Wayne Ivey. He is now telling county citizens to arm themselves and do everything they can to stop terror attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAYNE IVEY, BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA, SHERIFF: I have had enough of terrorists and others deciding to target U.S. citizens because they want to make a statement or get their 15 minutes of fame.

Now, more than ever before, is a time for law enforcement and our citizens to be fully prepared to immediately respond to an attack or an active shooter scenario with the right tools to eliminate or at the very least disrupt the attack. Let there be no mistake in what I'm about to say. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Brevard County, Florida, Sheriff Wayne Ivey joins me now.

Sheriff, welcome.

IVEY: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: Here's my first question for you. When everyone, you know, takes your advice and draws their guns and starts shooting, how do you tell who the good guys are?

IVEY: Well, you know, this is not anything that our team and law enforcement officers around the country haven't already been faced with when we look at the number of concealed carry permit holders, the number of states that allow open carry.

What we know is that our citizens are arming themselves. They are using firearms and other measures to protect themselves. We do traffic stops all the time with people that have concealed carry permits. We respond to scenes with good people that have guns, good law-abiding citizens.

We have been faced with that. The fact that it's concealed or not concealed is one of the things we deal with on a regular basis. The video that we put out was a message to our citizens about being prepared to defend yourself in the event of an attack.

BALDWIN: You know, I wish we could prevent all these attacks and I would never like to report on another active shooting situation again. The fact is, we know what happened in San Bernardino, two people who obviously very carefully planned an attack.

Are you telling me that if you think one of those innocent civilians had a gun, fewer people would have been murdered?

IVEY: Well, I think you have to look at all the different incidents.

The events in California are still unfolding and the law enforcement authorities there who did an incredible job not only in responding, but in addressing everything that took place, you know, the facts, all of the facts will come out of that.

But this is what we do know. This is an absolute fact. And that is the best law enforcement agencies in the country have response times in minutes and a violent criminal can take your life in seconds.

What we're telling our citizens and what has now gone on across the country is that you may very well have to be prepared to protect yourself, your family and those around you. And, as we said in the video, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

As a person who has a concealed carry or as a person who is thinking about getting a firearm to protect themselves, we want our citizens to, A, be mentally prepared, B, taking advance training. We offer an advanced training course, a self-defense through tactical shooting course that we offer to our citizens.

The bottom line is, no matter what you're using, you got to be prepared.

BALDWIN: No, I'm glad you bring up training. In reading more how other people feel about this, it's one thing, I think, to be trained, and I for one have never been, knock on wood, in any sort of high- stress situation. And no one is trying to take anyone's guns away.

But let's be real. This is a typical talking point from the NRA, that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. And I have heard that before. And so I was reading. I listen to veterans, because they have been through it. They have been to war and back.

And so let me just quote this retired Army Sergeant Rafael Noboa y Rivera, led a combat team in Iraq. And he was talking about this. And he was quoted saying this: "I think there's this fantasy world of gun play in the movies, but it doesn't really happen that way. When I heard gunfire in Iraq, I didn't immediately pick up my rifle and react. I first tried to ascertain where the shooting was coming from, where I was in relation to the gunfire, how far away was I. I think most untrained people are either going to freeze up or just whip out their gun and start firing in that circumstance. That would be absolute panic." Your response.

IVEY: Well, my first response to that, if you take any of the mass shootings that have taken place, they didn't have to figure out where the gunfire was coming from. They were immediately seeing it because it was in close proximity.

The second thing is, in our self-defense course that we teach, we talk to everyone. In fact, our course is about as much not when to shoot as it is when to shoot. What we are telling our citizens is, regardless of what weapon you have chosen to protect yourself with, be it a firearm, be it pepper spray, be it a Taser, you have to be prepared for the emergency.

You can't wait for the emergency to happen and then go into action. You have to go into action right now. Regardless of who it's a talking point for or anyone else, the simple fact is that these active shooters, terrorists, whomever they are that are going into these scenarios, are taking peoples lives in seconds.

[15:15:00]

And law enforcement most likely is not going to be on the scene. Law enforcement is going to be responding. So, what our message to our citizen is, is, be prepared to defend yourself. The cavalry is on the way, but you may be the very first line of defense.

BALDWIN: Sheriff Wayne Ivey, thank you so much. We will leave it there.

Next, what if Donald Trump won the Republican nomination and one of his rivals ran as an independent? That question being raised as the backlash against him is growing.

Plus, prosecutors say he used his power to prey on women. Have you heard this story? This former police officer on trial for raping 13 black women. Hear how he allegedly chose his victims and why the jury is all white.

And outrage erupts over this picture, Citadel cadets wearing white pillowcases over their heads. We have the backstory and the response. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:29]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In politics, it seems as the primary contests are guesting closer and closer, Donald Trump's lead is getting stronger and stronger. Check the numbers with me and you will see, listen, we are less than two months out until Iowa. That's February 1, the caucuses there.

This new poll finds Donald Trump has a whopping 35 percent of the Republican vote. That is more than double that of his closest competitor, Senator Ted Cruz. We should note that most of this poll was taken before Mr. Trump pushed his plan to ban all Muslims from entering the United States.

Let's go now to CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston.

Maeve Reston, good to see you.

CNN had him at 36 percent last week, 35 percent this week. It's a solid lead. By the time our Vegas Republican debate rolls away, we're like six weeks away from Iowa.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

It's really been fascinating to watch how strong he is, as other candidates like Ben Carson have really dropped in the polls. But what you do see is a certain amount of softness in all of these polls, in the sense that you still have, you know, as many as 64 percent of Republican voters saying they are not sure of their choice.

And I think it's really important to look at those numbers and remember that when voters make their decision, a lot of times they do change their mind up to the last minute. Certainly, Donald Trump has a very passionate and engaged following, but it will be interesting to see as people start to think about the general election when the primaries get closer, what happens to his support then.

BALDWIN: What? You mean we change our mind a lot? Get out of here, Maeve Reston. I kid. I kid.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: When you look at this poll, and obviously he's, you know, up and away, he's the clear front-runner, there are negatives, as you point out, for Trump, especially when it comes to looking ahead to that general election. Can you be specific?

RESTON: Yes.

Well, we know, for example, in a state like New Hampshire, even the Sunday before the primary, as many as half of voters haven't made up their minds. There were some really arresting figures in this new "New York Times" poll. For example, you know, 40 percent of voters generally express fear about what Donald Trump would do as president, 24 percent of voters expressing concern about what he would do as president.

And so it will be really fascinating to watch what voters are thinking as they look at those kind of numbers heading into the primaries. Is he really the best candidate to go up against Hillary Clinton? Will that start to really affect the decisions that they are making? And will they give other candidates like Rubio a closer look as they look at those general election matchups as well?

BALDWIN: OK. Maeve Reston, thank you. I bet I will see you in Vegas.

RESTON: Thanks. Yes.

BALDWIN: And let's remind everyone we're five days away from the next Republican debate. The stakes are huge. This is the final Republican debate of the year. It's Tuesday, December 15, 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

Coming up next, there is this group of cadets at the Citadel in trouble after this questionable photo surfaced showing them wearing white hoods. How the school is responding, the backstory there. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:47]

BALDWIN: One photograph has launched suspension proceedings for several students at the South Carolina Military College, the Citadel.

Here's the photo. You can see for yourself here. This is taken from Facebook. It shows seven cadets wearing over their head white pillowcases, pointed tops, eyes cut out. You get it.

Victor Blackwell is following this one for us.

Victor, what was going on there?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, I think the similarities are clear between what they are wearing and the typical garb worn by members of the Ku Klux Klan.

The question is, was that what was intended here? And you think back, the Military College, The Citadel, has had some accusations of racism and discrimination in the past. About 30 years ago, the FBI investigated after several upperclassmen dressed in white sheets and pillowcases rushed into the room of a cadet, a black cadet, shouting racial slurs and burning a cardboard cross.

But we have to also consider that there are other possible explanations. Let me read for you first the statement that came from the president of the Citadel, Lieutenant General John Rosa.

He found the photograph offensive, disturbing. Here's part of his statement. "In accordance with college policy, we immediately began suspension proceedings for those cadets known to be involved and we are continuing to investigate this incident. Preliminary reports are cadets were singing Christmas carols as part of a ghosts of Christmas past skit. These images are not consistent with our core values of honor, duty, and respect."

Now, let me offer some context here, Brooke, because this photo hits social media about two weeks after a prankster, his video on YouTube went viral. He sent five black men into a so-called white community to sing Christmas carols. Watch this video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So, the message, of course, of this video, don't --