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Mass Shooting Investigation; Republican Party Chaos?; Trump Ban. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 11, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:04]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much.

And we continue on, top of the hour on this Friday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

We are just four days away from CNN hosting the final Republican presidential debate of 2015. And now there will be not just one, two candidates on that stage in Las Vegas who are threatening to revolt from the Republican Party.

You have the news today. Ben Carson has just opened up the option that he could run as an independent. It's a card, as you know, that Donald Trump has been playing. Carson's threat comes after a report that Republican Party leaders talked about the possibility of a brokered convention when the Republican National Convention happens next summer.

Context in history here, the last time something like that even came close to happening, that was way back, 1976. A brokered convention is essentially when no one single candidate has enough delegates for that nomination, so the deals are made. Those are brokered on the convention floor then to select that nominee.

And that spurred Ben Carson this morning to release this statement. And it reads like this.

"If this was the beginning of a plan to subvert the will of the voters and replace it with the will of the political elite," he goes on, "I assure you Donald Trump will not be the only one leaving the party."

So with me now, Ying Ma, the deputy communications director for Ben Carson.

Ying, thank you so much for joining me.

YING MA, DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR CARSON CAMPAIGN: Brooke, thanks very much for having me.

BALDWIN: So, let's just begin with this news that there is this potential of a third-party run. What would what would it take for Ben Carson? What would that last straw be for him to mount an independent run for president?

MA: Brooke, it's not so much about an independent run. It's about standing up for we, the people.

Dr. Carson is running a very unconventional campaign, and Americans across the country have responded to him enthusiastically, and overwhelmingly, and what we object to is the likelihood of this race being fixed by the party establishment.

And we did see a report in "The Washington Post" talking about these party insiders trying to find a way to get the nominee or nominees that they would prefer. And what we believe in is that the American people will not stand for that. The Republican Party's primary voters certainly would not stand for that.

And we hope and pray that reports of these backroom deals are not true. But if these reports are true, the party should be ashamed of itself.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me get to that, because it's an important "Washington Post" piece that you raise. But, Sean Spicer, from the RNC, who we have now heard from, responding to -- and I will get back to that, but back to this third-party threat from Dr. Carson, he responded to his threat leaving the party, saying, the RNC is constantly having dinner with, you know, folks from different campaigns.

This is Sean Spicer earlier today here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN SPICER, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It really is. I mean, honestly, we have a dinner a night with people who have expressed an interest. Like I said, three weeks ago, we had 150 members of the press here where we walked through the same thing. We meet with people all day long who have an interest in this process, pundits, members of the media, donors, campaigns.

People have questions about the process. We answer it. But here is the bottom line in all of this. Republican voters will choose the delegates that will go to the convention in Cleveland next July. Those people will decide the nominee. That's it, bottom line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK, so a couple of questions. One, based upon that, he said he's having dinner every night. Ying, has your campaign ever had dinner with Sean Spicer, Reince Priebus, anyone from the RNC at all this season?

MA: So, I don't keep track of who has dinner with whom. But I certainly know that...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Certainly, you would know if you're talking to the RNC.

MA: We certainly have conversations with the RNC. And we were not invited to the dinner last night. I am sure that if the RNC...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Has a brokered convention -- in any of the dialogue with the RNC on the phone, at dinner, whatever, has a brokered convention ever come up with the Carson campaign?

MA: Well, I think there are all kinds of different possibilities, right?

But we don't object to people talking to the RNC. What we do object to are the political elite, the so-called Washington establishment trying to impose their will on primary Republican voters

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Hang on. Hang on. I'm not asking you about the Washington elite. I'm grateful that you're giving me the time from the Carson campaign. You're such an important voice.

And I just want to know, with regard to the Carson campaign, if you all in discussions with the RNC that presumably you have had over a course of time, that the notion of a brokered convention has at all come up? Just yes or no.

[15:05:00]

MA: Well, I think -- I'm not here to make public whatever conversations we have with the RNC or internally or anyone else about the possibility of a brokered convention.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I'm just saying if you take issue...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: If you take issue with the brokered convention coming up, as was reported from "The Washington Post," it is just -- it is important to know whether it's come up in the past with your campaign.

MA: No, actually, what we -- what we are taking issue with is not so much the brokered convention, but the possibility of a number of party insiders, the political establishment, trying to subvert the will of the people.

The process will play out the way it will play out. But that particular report I'm referring to in "The Washington Post" specifically talked about a number of these insiders trying to find a way to push for the candidate or candidates they prefer. And those are establishment candidates.

And it is no secret that there are plenty of party insiders who prefer candidates who are not outsiders such as Dr. Carson. You know, we believe that that the decision of who becomes our nominee ought to be left to the people, the GOP primary voters, not left to people in these smoke-filled rooms.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about this. One of our senior political correspondents, Nia-Malika Henderson, is reporting on the Carson campaign and that it's in chaos and it's centered around Armstrong Williams, Carson's long, longtime friend. He's upset because he says your camp never seems to prepare Dr. Carson, and then you couple that with an embarrassing "New York Times" story raising questions about Dr. Carson's grasp of foreign policy, not to mention the dip for Carson in polls.

I would love your response to that.

MA: Well, I think those reports are really blown way out of proportion.

You know, there are all these people talk about our campaign in crisis. I go to work at the campaign every day, and I work closely with the senior management of the campaign, and none of us see any kind of a crisis. I think it's much more...

BALDWIN: Is there bickering between...

MA: Look, Mr. Williams is a very close friend of Dr. Carson's. We're all aware of that. He wants exactly the same thing that we want, which is to get Dr. Carson elected as president.

Are there disagreements sometimes? Sure. And are there instances when we have found Mr. Williams' efforts to be not helpful? Sure. But there are always going to be tensions at campaigns. You know, there are lots of us within the campaign who disagree with each other, too.

But, you know, we are focused on one goal and that is to get Dr. Carson elected because we believe he's the best candidate in this race.

BALDWIN: With -- understand -- and with some of the concerns raised over Dr. Carson's knowledge of foreign policy, just quickly, how is Carson, a man who wants to be the leader of the most powerful country, prepared when he pronounces Hamas as "Hummus?

MA: Well, you know, Brooke, I think, once again, that is a very petty point.

Dr. Carson normally -- in fact, he rarely ever reads a speech. That day, you know, the speech that you're referring to, he read a speech. Probably, it was the first time that I have seen him read a speech. And he made -- I think his pronunciation was something that people couldn't hear very clearly.

But what people are forgetting is that they're forgetting actually the real point. Dr. Carson appreciated very much the content in that speech, and it reflects greatly on our policy adviser who wrote it, and he wanted to make sure that he got every point across.

And people who have complained about Dr. Carson's foreign policy credentials really ought to look at that speech. It has great ideas about how we ought to stand by our ally Israel, and yet everybody is forgetting all about that, and focusing on just one word. And that is truly what is silly.

BALDWIN: We look forward to seeing Dr. Carson on that stage Tuesday night in Las Vegas.

Ying Ma, thank you so much.

MA: Thank you so much, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let me turn now to our CNN political commentator Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH" Saturday mornings here at CNN.

And before we talk Tuesday and the debate, you were listening to my conversation with Ying Ma there, deputy communications director of Dr. Carson's campaign. Thoughts?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The party has an obligation to remain neutral, right? They can't show any favoritism among any of these candidates.

But they'd be derelict in their duty if they didn't game out, hey, what happens if no one reaches the requisite number of votes and we have to go to a brokered convention?

BALDWIN: But Rubio and Bush supporters, according to "The Washington Post," were at that dinner.

SMERCONISH: True, they were. But I believe -- I have to take the RNC at face value, that they're constantly having these types of meetings and these type of confabs.

I don't see any reason to believe that this was an agenda item. It seems as if the conversation wondered in to the foreseeable future.

BALDWIN: Clearly, what she's worried -- that campaign is worried about that, the Washington elite.

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: If others had a seat at the table and this was planned, then they too should have a seat at the table. There's no doubt about that. But the party has an absolute obligation to know where it's going, especially in this incredible season.

BALDWIN: Yes. It is incredible.

Let's look ahead to Tuesday.

SMERCONISH: Sure.

BALDWIN: Specifically, here, we talked a lot about Trump, obviously, but then Ted Cruz, and they have seemed to be for the most part pretty friendly.

[15:10:02]

And now we have this audio. This is taken from a fund-raiser. "The New York Times" got it, leaked audio. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like and respect both Donald and Ben. But I think in both instances in particular, you look at Paris, you look at San Bernardino.

It's given a seriousness to this race that people are looking for, who is prepared to be a commander in chief? Now, that's a question of strength, but it's also a question of judgment. And I think that is a question that is a challenging question for both of them.

So, my approach, much to the frustration of the media, has been to bear-hug both of them, and smother them with love, because -- because I think, look, people run as who they are. I believe that gravity will bring both of those campaigns down. And I think the lion's share of their supporters come to us.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: "I believe that gravity will bring both of those campaigns down." This is what he's saying behind closed doors.

Tweet from Senator Cruz is this: "The establishment's only hope, Trump and me in a cage match. Sorry to disappoint, @realDonaldTrump is terrific, #dealwithit."

How does that play out Tuesday night?

SMERCONISH: I think the reason that we're all so taken with this audio is because the two have played so nice with one another.

BALDWIN: So nice.

SMERCONISH: And if you look at the Monmouth survey in Iowa -- we get caught up in these national polls, but they are running one and two, Cruz one, Trump two.

So, we want to see, how long does this last? Now, Donald Trump maintains he's a counterpuncher. Right? He never throws the first blow, or so he says. I wonder if he will continue to take that posture with Ted Cruz if Cruz passes him in other state polls. You have just seen from Ted Cruz he has no intention of going after the Donald.

BALDWIN: OK. So, those two. Then you have the rest of the candidates, and we still don't know like the podium positioning, which I'm also totally fascinated by.

SMERCONISH: Right.

BALDWIN: But you have the establishment sort of taking on Donald Trump, especially in the wake of what he said about Muslims. SMERCONISH: And getting no payoff.

BALDWIN: And the ban.

SMERCONISH: And getting no payoff so far.

BALDWIN: And getting no payoff; 54 percent of Republicans support that ban on Muslims entering the country. So, given that, how do Republicans then thread the needle, because obviously Republicans are watching?

SMERCONISH: Right.

BALDWIN: And then you have on the other side of the stage Trump.

SMERCONISH: I have been thinking a lot about this, because we're literally packing our bags and getting ready to go to Vegas to cover this.

Nothing has stuck to Trump so far. He really has been the Teflon Don. And there's no reason to believe that that 30 percent to 35 percent of the Republican vote can be cracked. I mean, look at the Alisyn Camerota focus group.

BALDWIN: Totally fascinating.

SMERCONISH: My God, these are true believers ready to go to the mat for him. Frank Luntz, a focus group as well. These people are ready to walk through fire for Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: Yes. So, what do you do if you're the other guys on the stage?

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: If I'm the other guys, maybe I have to say I'm not cracking that 35 percent. I better look to my left and right and go after the remaining 65 percent.

Might those candidates go after one another, instead of focusing so much attention on Donald Trump? That's what I'm going to Vegas looking for.

BALDWIN: OK. Looking forward to the scorecard, as always.

SMERCONISH: All right. It will be there, I promise.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: OK. We will see you in Vegas, Michael Smerconish. Thank you.

Make sure you watch him tomorrow morning 9:00 Eastern here on CNN.

And a reminder again here, we're going to Vegas four days away. This is huge, huge, the next Republican debate, the final one of the year, Tuesday, 9:00 p.m., 6:00 and 8:30 p.m. here on CNN.

Coming up next, see what divers have just discovered in the water where investigators are searching for evidence possibly connected to terrorist couple who murdered 14 people in San Bernardino, what they found in this lake.

Plus, a disturbing new warning, ISIS using machines to create fake passports, why this could change the game.

And a jury convicts a former police officer accused of raping 13 African-American women. Moments ago, the women who survived his attacks broke their silence during an emotional news conference. Do not miss their message.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:23]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Right now, I can tell you that, in San Bernardino, California, investigators trying to learn so much more about that terrorist couple, the killers, who murdered 14 people last week. They're no longer searching the couple's home. Instead, they have taken the search for clues to the small lake actually nearby.

One of the big questions really right now is, what exactly are these dive teams looking for? The FBI, of course, they're not saying. But one theory is this, that this couple may have tossed their hard drive into this water near the home, this crucial piece of evidence missing from that home computer.

What the FBI is telling us is that the husband here did, indeed, have ties to a terror recruiter and a group of jihadists in California, a group arrested back in 2012 for attempting to travel to Afghanistan to join al Qaeda.

Also today, women who were assaulted, sexually assaulted, by a former Oklahoma City police officer, they are now speaking out. They're reacting to this guilty verdict of 29-year-old Daniel Holtzclaw. A jury convicted him on his birthday here of 18 counts, including rape. Prosecutors say he preyed on women with criminal histories, some of them, singling out poor African-American women he thought would never say a word.

Well, two of those brave women stood before cameras today, breaking their silence and speaking their truth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Once he did the arrest, I was taken to a hospital on the whole opposite side of town, which I didn't think nothing of it at the time. And once I got there, they gave me -- took off my clothes, and handcuffed me to the bed, and took me to a room.

[15:20:10] And no nurses, nobody came to check on me. And, shortly, he just was

-- started to manipulate me. And...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me being in a room with the police, not expecting to get violated the way I did, the way I was done, I just couldn't even believe it.

I just -- I couldn't -- I was speechless. I was scared. I didn't -- when everything was going down, I just -- I felt -- I was -- I mean, I was scared. I didn't know what to do. I felt like I was in survival mode, so I had to do what he was making me do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Women speaking up, speaking their truths today. Holtzclaw, meantime, will be sentenced next month.

The jury recommended he get 263 consecutive years in prison.

Breaking news, as one country hunts for several missing terror suspects who talked about attacking Chicago and Toronto, we are getting word of a possible ISIS sleeper cell there. We have those details ahead for you, also, a new U.S. intelligence report warning that ISIS is using machines to create fake passports -- why this piece of information could be a game changer.

Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:07]

BALDWIN: In the world of information infiltration, there are good hackers and there are bad hackers.

As part of CNN money's special series, CNN's Laurie Segall introduces to a free-spirited hacker who's actually considered a superhero.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHYAMA ROSE, CYBER-SECURITY EXPERT: I have been all around the world, doing security. I have worked for the top companies in the world. Based on where I came from, I have every right to be a coked-up prostitute. But I would rather be a nerd.

(LAUGHTER)

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is Shyama Rose. At 3, her mom joined a religious group outside of Austin, Texas. There was beauty, belief, devotion to a religious leader named Swamiji. It was all a cover for horrific abuse.

ROSE: He began abusing, sexually abusing me and several other girls at the ashram. SEGALL (on camera): Do you remember the first time it happened?

ROSE: I was standing in the kitchen, and I was 11 years old, and wearing this gigantic sari, which young girls probably shouldn't be wearing. And he was trying to adjust it around me and just -- you know, just started touching.

And you're just confused. What was that? The only outlets that I had were books or computers. And when I got the computer, it was like lightning in my life. It was a total savior. And I got one with a modem, plugged it in, and then heard that famous, and then it was just kind of game over from there.

SEGALL (voice-over): It was her growing ability to hack, to speak another language that opened doors outside of the ashram.

ROSE: Hacking and computers to me became such an incredible outlet to me. There's definitely a conception in people's mind that hacking can be very bad. But it's also good in a way, too. Like, sometimes, you have to break things down to figure out how to make them better.

SEGALL: Hacking was her ticket to freedom outside the closed bubble of the compound. She left and became what you might call a professional protector.

At Nasdaq, her job was to actually think like a bad hacker. While hostile governments were on the offense trying to steal sensitive stock information, she played defense, finding weak links before they could get to them.

ROSE: I want to help people feel better. I want them to feel protected. And maybe that's where it came from.

SEGALL: She's taken on hackers from all over the world. And as an adult, she was able to take on the first person who exposed her to injustice, Swamiji. The story was featured here on CNN's "THE HUNT." It was her testimony that would help lead to his conviction. He was sentenced to 280 years in prison, but disappeared after posting bail.

ROSE: I think growing up in such an oppressive life as a child, freedom to me is very important.

SEGALL: To show me where she finds freedom, she asked me to come here, where she spends quite a bit of time.

ROSE: I need to be able to do what I want when I want and how I want.

And skydiving allows me to do that. It takes you through the roller coaster of, what is life? We see beauty. We see sunsets that no one else would see. And hacking is like this, too. But the people that you do it with, you create such a deep bond with, because it's something that you share with those people that no one else does.

So, it's such a unique skill. It's an edge-of-life kind of moment, both hacking and skydiving.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Laurie Segall, thank you.

Do not miss Laurie's special, "The Secret Lives of Superhero Hackers," airing tomorrow at 2:30 Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

Breaking news now: As one country hunts for several missing terror suspects who talked about attacking Chicago and Toronto, we are getting possible word of an ISIS sleeper cell in Switzerland. We have those details ahead.

Also ahead, an American soldier writes this open letter to Muslims after Donald Trump proposes a ban on Muslims coming to the U.S. -- this incredible perspective here that he wrote in the wake of Paris and then San Bernardino coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)