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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Oklahoma Ex-Cop Convicted; California Terror Attack: Killers May Have Tossed Crucial Evidence. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 11, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Watch the entire show, "CNN Heroes: An All Star Tribute" airs this Saturday, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. It's one of those feel-good things. It's good if you do.

Thanks so much for joining us "AT THIS HOUR." LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We begin this hour with 13 women, 13 women who thought no one would ever believe them when they stepped up and said a police officer had sexually assaulted them. This is now former Oklahoma Police Officer Daniel Holtzclaw. This is him as being convicted on his 29th birthday yesterday because a jury did believe the accusations of rape, of sexual battery and of other crimes that could send him to prison for life. At any time now, Holtzclaw's victims, all of them African- American, all with rap sheets for drugs or prostitution or even both, are going to tell us how they feel about that moment when the verdict came down, and about the trial itself, and about a system that made them doubt an all-white jury would ever give them justice. We're going to listen in when their news conference gets underway live.

Officer Holtzclaw didn't choose CEOs, he didn't choose soccer moms, said the assistant D.A. in her closing arguments on Monday. He chose women he could not - or he could count on not telling what he was doing. And when he kicked Holtzclaw off the force back in January, the Oklahoma City police chief said, quote, "your offenses committed against women in our community constitute the greatest abuse of police authority I have witnessed in my 37 years as a member of this agency."

CNN's Alina Machado was following this case. She's been following it live and she joins me live now.

This is an astounding verdict. The women who did not think that they were ever going to be believed, were not believed just a little, they were wholly believed, it seems. Tell me a little bit about that moment.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that moment was truly incredible if you were watching the feed from last night's delivery - from the actual delivery of that verdict. You know, there was a lot of tension in that courtroom and we know that the defendant, Daniel Holtzclaw, was very emotional. He was sobbing. He was rocking back and forth in his chair. It was almost like he couldn't believe what he was hearing every time the judge read a guilty verdict.

And I want to read to you - the reaction following that verdict immediately was very, very swift. We know that outside of that courthouse, a group of women gathered and they started singing "happy birthday," which was a reference to the fact that last night was also Daniel Holtzclaw's 29th birthday.

And we are also hearing from the Oklahoma City Police Department. I want to read to you part of the statement that they posted on their Facebook page. It says in part, "the Oklahoma City Police Department is pleased with the jury's decision regarding the Daniel Holtzclaw trial. It was a long and difficult trial and deliberations process for all involved. It is obviously the jury took their responsibilities very seriously and considered every piece of evidence presented to them. We are proud of our detectives and prosecutors for a job well done. To the jury, we thank you for your service. We are satisfied with the jury's decision and firmly believe justice was served."

The statement obviously refers to the fact that this jury took more than 40 hours to reach the sentence - to reach the verdict that they reached.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And, Alina, just quickly, when you talk about the verdict, you know, many of those women who took the stand were believed by this all-white jury, eight men, four women, on that panel, and yet the conviction story is interesting, 36 counts, 18 convictions. So what does that say about the other counts where they did not choose guilty?

MACHADO: You know, they were - he was convicted on 18 of those counts, as you mentioned. And the district attorney did address that yesterday following the verdict. And he basically said, that doesn't mean that the jurors didn't believe those particular women. He feels that it may suggest that perhaps the prosecution didn't meet its burden of proof in those particular counts, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Alina Machado, thank you for that.

I just want to draw our viewers' attention to that open mike that is sitting empty right now, but we are waiting for those victims to talk about this experience. And this is not something you always get to see or hear. It will be very telling. We're going to take you live to Oklahoma City just the moment that they take to those microphones.

And in the meantime there is a lot at stake here. It means a lot when you get a verdict like this.

I want to bring in my lawyers, Joey Jackson, who's a defense attorney and HLN legal analyst, and Mel Robbins, a CNN commentator and legal analyst.

[12:05:00] First, guys, look, there's a million different questions I could ask you about procedure and what happened in this courtroom. I just want to get your reaction to it. JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I think it's a major victory in so many ways. And think about it this way. Even before the trial, Ashleigh, you have an officer and you know how difficult potentially it could be to bring down an officer who's engaged in any impropriety. You have a brave woman that comes forward, who I know Mel will talk about, and, you know, she comes forward not knowing what will happen. Will the police investigate? Will they take it seriously?

Boy, did they investigate and boy did they take it seriously. She comes forward in June of last year. By January he's terminated. And, Ashleigh, they discover it's not only limited to her, but there are 13 people out there. So you get through that hurdle. And then you say, OK, do I really have faith in the system because now we have an all- white jury and we're dealing with 13 African-American women? Would this jury get it right? Can they relate or will they disregard the claims? The jury got it right and then some.

And then you go to the third real hurdle, which the prosecution had to deal with, and it's the nature of who the victims were. As you mentioned when you - in your lead-in to this story, these are people who had checkered pasts, who had criminal histories, who were the downtrodden and the defense -

BANFIELD: They live in the world of prostitution and drug addicts, et cetera.

JACKSON: Exactly.

BANFIELD: And they themselves said, who would believe me?

JACKSON: Exactly. And to think that. And, you know, as a defense attorney certainly, you know, you exploit things like that. And that was their greatest strength, the defense. But the prosecution turned it into their greatest weakness by saying, who else would this officer exploit but people who would not be believed.

BANFIELD: Right. (INAUDIBLE).

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: And that's where - and that's where the big mistake came in. So the whole case, and this is what I found to be fascinating, turned when a 57-year-old grandmother became one of his victims. And she was pulled over by him in the neighborhood where he was constantly targeting these women, but she didn't live there. He didn't realize she was a middle-class African-American woman who had no criminal record and knew what to do when somebody did something like this, which is to call the police.

When she called the police, she went to the hospital next. The police met her there. And hat's off to the police in Oklahoma City because even though the allegations were against another police officer, they took them incredibly seriously. And it was within one month, Ashleigh, that they realized, oh my God, there are six other allegations, unsolved cases, that match up almost identically to this.

BANFIELD: A pattern, right?

ROBBINS: There was a pattern.

BANFIELD: Yes.

ROBBINS: He was targeting women in a particular neighborhood who were either using drugs or were prostitutes and who he could hold power over by basically saying, you either do this sexual act on me or you're going to jail.

BANFIELD: And I should be really careful to point out, these patterns, it's very hard for us to report some of this material on television, but to be very clear, they were patterns like forcing women into the back of a cruiser to perform oral sex on him, following them to their house on the guise that this is me protecting you and then entering those homes and raping them in their own homes. Even a 17-year-old girl he said, I'll help you get home safely, and ultimately raped her at that home where she - I mean it's just - every level of it is so extraordinary.

We're going to take you to the live news conference just as soon as we can. To the two of you, thank you for your insight on that.

JACKSON: (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: Especially the all-white jury issue, I think it does speak volumes. There was a lot of concern going into this case with an all- white jury that these women wouldn't get justice. And the women who are about to take to those microphones are going to tell you what kind of justice they think that they got.

JACKSON: And a jury recommendation, all white or not, 263 years. What does it say about how they felt what his conduct was all about?

BANFIELD: Yes, it speaks volumes.

All right, so hold it there for a moment and we're going to come back to that live microphone just as soon as - as the women come out to speak.

But I want to take you as well to California, where there are divers who are feverishly searching a lake. They're looking for any kind of evidence they can find in that San Bernardino massacre. What kind of evidence might that be? We'll let you know, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:13:03] BANFIELD: Welcome back to LEGAL VIEW.

You are looking on this monitor at live pictures right now. This is a water source in San Bernardino, California. And that is a diver who is acting as an investigator. The diver is trying to learn anything he or she can, hard to tell who it is, about a man and a woman who sprayed a gathering of office workers with bullets last week. And no longer are they searching that couple's home, but they have taken the search elsewhere. They have taken the search to look for clues to this small lake not far from the place where those murderous killers shot dead 14 people. And here's the big question today, what do they expect to find in that water? How long are they going to be in there? Evidence that the couple was trying to get rid of? Are they looking for weapons? The FBI is not saying absolutely, but one theory is that a hard drive is really at key here. That it's missing from the killers' home computer. And they say Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, were in that area where you see these divers right now at some point not too distant from when the actual crime happened.

Our Ana Cabrera is live in San Bernardino right now, and she's been watching this process, as many of us have been, Ana. And so as we watch hour after hour, these divers bringing things up and sifting through them and then heading right back down under the murky water, so far hasn't yielded anything.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Ashleigh, literally as we were getting set up for your live shot, they got in the water. This is the first they've been in the water today. They were out here for several hours yesterday before nightfall and we know they - they are going to be out here as long as it takes to get through the whole lake to determine whether or not there is any evidence that may be connected to Tashfeen Malik or Syed Rizwan Farook.

[12:15:00] It took them a good couple of hours to gear up. As you can imagine, this is difficult work. These are specialists with the FBI's investigation team working to find any kind of evidence they say that could be connected to the investigation. While they won't tell us exactly what they're looking for, we do know there were items missing that they anticipated finding during the search warrant they executed at the couple's town home, namely that hard drive that was to the computer that was in the home. And that's one thing that's a key part of the investigation because the investigators are trying to figure out if there are any other people who could have been possibly connected to the plot, and the couple's digital footprint is going to be very crucial.

So we're watching these divers, you know, mostly staying by the shore, assuming that one of the shooters, or the shooters could have thrown something into the lake and there's only so far they could have gotten it. So there are two divers currently in. They're tethered to people who are on the shore. And they're going very slowly through the water. We understand that investigators have already scoured the entire park area and yesterday at the press conference with the FBI director, assistant director in charge of the L.A. bureau, he said they may be canvassing neighbors and neighborhoods in the days to come. They are leaving no stone unturned, were his words, as they continue their investigation. And, in fact, the dive team could be out here working for the next several days is our understanding, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And several days. I mean I'm looking at the live picture right now as you're narrating this, Ana, and two divers and a very large body of water. Look, it's not an ocean, but if you're scanning the black bottom of a murky water source like that, it is like a needle in a haystack that you're looking for, especially if they don't know exactly what they're looking for.

First of all - I've got two questions. Number one, have they brought anything to the surface and sort of marched it over to that tent that they've set up. Basically, I would assume, a collection area for anything that's somewhat suspicious or needs a second look. Have they actually brought anything up? And how long are they going to put on this project?

CABRERA: We haven't - we have not seen them bring anything up to the surface yet. As we mentioned, they just got in the water within the last 10 minutes or so. I'm not sure if they brought up anything yesterday. We - when our team was here, did not witness them bringing anything out of the lake.

You point out, the water is murky. We've seen a lot of geese and ducks and other birds swimming in this water this morning. So you have to imagine it's pretty dark and tough to see underwater when they go down. And they're staying pretty close to the edge. Staying chose to the surface of the water. They must know what they're looking for. Again, these are trained experts. But again we're told they'll be out here during daylight hours until they feel secure that they've combed every area that they think might yield some information or evidence, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Ana Cabrera, keep an eye on this for us. We'll come back to you live throughout the program as it warrants. And it's really a fascinating - it's a fascinating picture just to be able to watch them at work. And hopefully it will yield some kind of evidence.

I want to switch us over right now, if I can, from Ana Cabrera, back to Oklahoma City where Benjamin Crump, famed attorney now who represented the families of Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin, is introducing many of the women who testified against Officer Daniel Holtzclaw, who's just been found guilty of 18 of 36 charges on sex crimes. And they have now agreed to come forward and speak to the press about the justice they feel they have received in the case against this Oklahoma City police officer. So let's listen to Benjamin Crump as he introduces these women.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY: Getting raped by a police officer and nobody is saying a word about it. Nobody's doing anything about it. They are trying to sweep it under the rug. You've got to do something. We've got to do something. And I told (INAUDIBLE), because I'm an attorney, I'm an officer of the court, and I really believe that equal justice prevails in America, and that every American citizen is given their rights as citizens. So I told her that I'm sure it's going to get covered. It's just a sensational, unbelievable case. I'm sure the national media, I'm sure America is going to come to the aid of these vulnerable women. And I believed that. And so I said - and we were busy doing these other cases in America dealing with other minorities being killed by police officers. So I said, (INAUDIBLE), just keep the faith. It's going to happen.

And then, a couple of months after that, Mr. Garland Pruitt (ph), the NAACP president, called and said, nobody's doing anything about this case. They're going to let him get off with this. We've got to speak out. We've got to cry as a country for these women, these vulnerable women, the least of ye. And, again, I was busy in Ferguson dealing with the Michael Brown case. And I told Mr. Pruitt that I'm sure it's going to work out. It's going to happen where people are going to care about these women, because they're somebody's mother, somebody's sister, somebody's daughter, somebody's wife, somebody's grandmother, and we all have wives and mothers and sisters. They're going to care. They're going to speak out.

[12:20:34] And we kept waiting for them to speak out. And then Sharde's (ph) father called me. Mr. Tarell Mohamed (ph). And he called me with one of those painful calls. And it - it does remind you, these phone calls remind you of one another. I thought about Trayvon Martin's father in that phone call. He was just frustrated. He was concerned that the person who violated his daughter was going to get away with it and nobody was going to say a damn word. And I sensed his anguish and his pain and he said, I understand that you're coming to Oklahoma, Attorney Simmons (ph) and Attorney Holland (ph) and I are working on the matter in Tulsa with Monroe Byrd III (ph), a young man who had been shot and killed unarmed. And I said, we're coming to Oklahoma and we're busy, but he said, Mr. Crump, the trial has started. I go to that courtroom and I'm so concerned that my baby won't get justice. You just got to help us.

And when he made that plea, I thought about myself as a father. I have a daughter. And he said, man, if they let him get away with it, I don't know what I'll do. And I thought about that, if that was my daughter. It became personal.

You know, at lot of times we were not humanizing this situation. And so he humanized it for me more than Taz (ph) or Mr. Pruitt could ever humanize it for me. He said literally crying on that phone saying, I want justice for my child. My child's life matters, too.

And so it was that day that we were going to the University of Oklahoma to speak at a lecture on Black Lives Matter that we came to the courthouse. And we sat in, Attorney Solomon Simmons (ph) and I, listened to some of the painful testimony of these women talk about the most dehumanizing things you could possibly imagine. And it just left a hollow pit in your stomach as you listened to them tell similar story after similar story. And these women didn't know one another. So how would they all be able to tell the same story over and over?

And I sat in the courtroom as an officer of the court really concerned that, would justice elude them like it had eluded so many others in our community? And I remember a young lady with Grace's group, Oklahoma City Artist for Justice. These sisters who were young college students who gave a damn and they cared about these other women that they felt connected that they committed to sacrifice their time to come to court every day and take notes and tweet out about what was happening in the trial, because like Tez (ph) said and like Mr. Garland (ph) said, no national media, nobody was covering it. And so they took it amongst themselves to try to cover it. And so it became very profound to me when they said, Attorney Crump, look in this courtroom, nobody cares.

BANFIELD: Attorney Benjamin Crump has been speaking out in front of the Oklahoma City County Courthouse. He's ostensibly introducing the women who are about to speak about their experiences in that courtroom and we really want you to be able to hear that. [12:24:49] I'm going to squeeze in a quick break. And when we come back, hopefully the women will be coming forward to tell their accounts of what justice was like for them. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:29:10] BANFIELD: Back live with you now here on LEGAL VIEW.

And we've been watching the microphone out in front of the Oklahoma County Courthouse - Oklahoma City County Courthouse where Attorney Benjamin Crump is still speaking. He is in front of a group of people represented mostly by women who testified in a trial of a police officer who has since been convicted of multiple counts of sexual assault. Just moments ago, this was the image where he suggested that this press conference is partially a celebration, but also a chance to sort of shed some light on the circumstances that developed in this particular case.

If you're just joining us, we led the program with this story. And on his 29th birthday, the officer in this case, Daniel Holtzclaw, was convicted of 18 of the 36 charges against him. And you might say, well, that's only half of the charges he was facing, but our - our correspondent on location had said there were a number of different things that could have been, that the prosecution hadn't met its burden in some of those particular charges, but that all in all the stories of the women who were