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Ben Carson Threatens To Leave Republican Party; Carson Campaign At War With Itself; Americans That Oppose Trump's Muslim Ban; Cruz Questions Trump's Judgment To Be President; Terror Attack Rocks An Embassy In Afghanistan; FBI Resumes Search For Clues In Terror Attack; Spanish Embassy Rocked by Bomb; Divers Resume Search; Farook Linked to Jihadists. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired December 11, 2015 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 7:00 p.m. in Geneva and 10:30 p.m. in Kabul. Wherever you're watching us from around the world, thanks so much for joining us.
We begin with the growing stakes for Republican presidential candidates with only four days now until CNN's Republican debate. Ben Carson may be feeling the heat. He is threatening to leave the Republican Party, and this comes in the reports that Republican insiders were discussing the possibility of a brokered convention.
In a statement, Carson says, if the leaders of the Republican Party want to destroy the party, they should continue to hold the meetings like described in the "Washington Post" this morning. If this was the beginning of a plan to subvert the will of the voters and replace it with the will of the political elite, I assure you, Donald Trump will not be the only one leaving the party.
Plus, Carson is really falling in the polls. In the latest CBS-"New York Times" poll, he is behind both Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.
And I want to get more perspective on this with CNN Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. She's joining me now. So, I wonder, Nia, has the Republican National Committee -- as they really tried to keep all of their guys and girls together on this, --
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right.
KEILAR: -- have they responded on this?
HENDERSON: They have. I mean, this statement from Ben Carson, it landed in everybody's in-boxes earlier this morning. And so far, the RNC has responded. This is what they had to say because Sean Spicer really giving us more context to that meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, CHIEF STRATEGIST AND COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, RNC: Well, I say to Dr. Carson, don't worry. Your prayers have been answered. There was a dinner where the subject was how the delegate selection process works, what the difference between a hybrid state versus a proportional state.
And at the end of that dinner, there were a lot of questions asked. It was, frankly, very similar to a press briefing that we held for 150 members of the press a couple of weeks ago where a very similar thing happened. We walked through the delegate process; what states were going on what days; how each state handled their delegate process. And, at the end, we took a series of questions. It's really nothing more than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Wow. OK. So, he's really responding to that. Tell us about Ben Carson, because he is kind of -- he's not doing so great. You wrote this really good CNN.com article and you talk about his campaign really being in crisis which is quite the turnaround from a few weeks ago.
HENDERSON: You know, they are. I mean, in some ways, there are two Carson campaigns. There is one that is made up, essentially, of Armstrong Williams who, of course, has been on our air. He is his business manager, and has been Carson's friend for almost two decades.
And then, there is the regular campaign structure. And you had Carson come out on a number of occasions and criticize not only the campaign but also Carson himself. And the campaign is now shooting back and saying, essentially, in some ways Armstrong Williams hasn't been that helpful to the campaign. And Armstrong Williams says, well, listen, you weren't preparing the candidate in the way that he should be prepared for some of these big events.
We remember, of course, last week, the RJC event where Carson seemed to pronounce Hamas as hummus and leading to all sorts of mockery. So, they are in this very delicate, I think, situation right now. It's that test that you get when you're sort of an upstart campaign and how you make the transfer to the big leagues.
KEILAR: When you look at where he is in the polls, is this a freefall for Ben Carson do you think?
HENDERSON: Well, you know, I think they're in the place where they're trying to stanch the bleeding. And also, they said, well, listen, polls go up and down.
The thing is, I mean if you remember Scott Walker, the polls didn't go up and down and he was eventually out of the campaign. They are staking everything on Iowa. They've identified 100,000 voters that they have pretty regular contact with. And they think if they can get 35,000 of those folks out on caucus night, they can win. But they'd also be happy with a third-place finish coming out of Iowa. And they feel like they can do well in the south as well.
KEILAR: All right, we'll see. Nia, thank you so much for your report.
HENDERSON: Thanks, Briana.
KEILAR: And with Donald Trump and now Ben Carson threatening to leave the party, it really begs the question, what is happening with the GOP? I want to bring in CNN Political Commentator and the host of the "Ben Ferguson show," Ben Ferguson. We also have Political Strategist Angela Rye and Pastor Darrell Scott. He is a Donald Trump supporter. He's also the founder and senior pastor of New Spirit Center.
And, Ben, I want to begin with you on this. Give us the big picture here of why the Republican Party is experiencing such disconnect about, really, where to go?
BENJAMIN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (via Skype): Well, I think two things here. One, there is a massive distrust of the GOP and the Republican National Committee by the outsiders. There also is -- a lot of this is just being played up into politics and political theater to keep the attention also on Ben Carson the same way that Donald Trump knows how to keep the attention on him.
[13:05:06] So, I think, when Ben Carson came out with this, it's more about getting us to be talking about him. And any time you say that you are against a traditional GOP establishment, your poll numbers go up. I don't think that Ben Carson or Donald Trump is truly concerned about a brokered convention. It would be unbelievable chaos.
And I don't think that their --the political bosses of the GOP establishment would be able to pull anything close to that off, especially in the day we have now with media. But if you are against the GOP establishment -- both of these candidates are. Both of them have surged off of and I think they're both using it for their own political gain. And it's a smart political gain move. I also think it's a -- you know, it's pretty farfetched, at the same time.
KEILAR: Well, what -- do you think it's farfetched, Angela? Do you think there really is a possibility of a brokered convention?
ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Well, I think anything is certainly possible now. What I also fully believe is that there was this kitchen cabinet dinner of the GOP establishment, as Ben just mentioned. And I think because of that, the GOP is frantic trying to figure out how they are going to have a candidate that represents their best interests. There are so many members of the GOP who have condemned Donald Trump's remarks over the last several days.
And we do know that these two candidates are particularly anti- establishment, both Donald Trump and Ben Carson. And them being here distracts from what the GOP said they wanted to do. Both in the autopsy plan and in getting the White House back. Because with both of them in the race, that just is not going to happen.
KEILAR: Pastor, this is a question for you. As we go in here, just a few days out from the next CNN debate which going -- which is going to be focusing a lot on foreign policy, on national security. The question is, how are these candidates going to protect the homeland? Donald Trump has already provided a really controversial answer. He has proposed that Muslims be temporarily banned from entering the United States.
And then, in a new CBS News poll taken after those remarks, 58 percent of all Americans oppose that idea, 36 percent only support it. But when you look at the Republican response, you have 54 percent who favor it, 38 percent oppose it. Do you think, Pastor, this is something that you can support, this ban of Donald Trump's, as you support him as a candidate?
REV. DARRELL SCOTT, PASTOR, NEW SPIRIT CENTER: Well, I have stated on numerous occasions that the word ban is a rather strong word. I would have preferred the use of the word moratorium. And I really believe a temporary moratorium is not unreasonable as our vetting process is improved. The vetting process has to be revised. It has to be upgraded. It has to be approve -- improved in order to prevent leakage or prevent anyone from slipping through the cracks.
Because as I have stated, American lives cannot be considered collateral damage. ISIS poses a threat to American lives, and in order to prevent this threat from actualizing, then something has to be done. Everyone is in agreement that something has to be done. And, for the most part, Donald Trump has the best plan. We have to --
KEILAR: So, you support --
SCOTT: -- put a moratorium on immigration. Excuse me?
KEILAR: -- you support -- you support -- you just want to call it a moratorium, but you support the policy?
SCOTT: I support a moratorium on immigration. I mean, it can be a very short period of time. It can be a long period of time, depending upon what our strategists decide is the best course of action. But as we've seen from the San Bernardino shooters, there have been those who have slipped through the cracks. That if the vetting process had been better, it meant they would not have been able to slip through those cracks. And 14 Americans would still be alive, 22 other Americans would not be wounded. And this fear that pervades our American society would not be as prevalent as it is.
America is scared right now. And because what happened in San Bernardino can happen down the street from any of us. That is the mindset --
RYE: It can also happen --
SCOTT: -- of America right now.
RYE: -- it can also happen in Charleston, South Carolina, Pastor, in a church with a Christian shooter named Dylan Roof. Would you --
SCOTT: Then we got --
RYE: Would you suggest a temporary moratorium of white supremacist like the candidates that are supporting Donald Trump?
SCOTT: If white supremacist -- if white supremacists threatened American society and they were emigrating from another country, yes.
FERGUSON: There's a difference --
SCOTT: We're not talking about -- I'm not talking about a ban or --
FERGUSON: I agree with you on this.
SCOTT: -- a moratorium on American citizens. I'm talking about --
FERGUSON: There's a --
SCOTT: -- a ban or moratorium on immigration.
RYE: No, you said American lives so I figured you would want to support equally all American lives.
SCOTT: But American --
FERGUSON: But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's be clear.
SCOTT: -- lives are always at risk in American society. That's the job of the police to take care of that.
FERGUSON: There's a big difference.
SCOTT: But we're talking about a foreign threat.
KEILAR: All right, Ben --
FERGUSON: There's a big difference between someone that's in this country as an American citizen and somebody who's coming into this country as an immigrant. And I think this is where Donald Trump does connect with people. The system we have now, there are -- obviously, there are loopholes and things that are not working well. So, a moratorium is something, I think, most Americans will support. But when you say an all-out ban on all Muslims --
[13:10:01] RYE: Is that true? Did you just hear the stats?
FERGUSON: -- let me -- no, no, no, there's a difference. If you ask people if they want to ban all Muslims, the polls are clear that the majority of Americans don't want to ban all Muslims. If you said you want to have a moratorium on immigration in this country until we figure out (INAUDIBLE) from terrorist nations or we know where terrorism is, that's where I think you have a lot of Americans that would agree with what Donald Trump was saying, in general.
But when you try to ban a religion, that is what is got Donald Trump in trouble. You cannot do that and that's why he's been taking so many hits over the last couple days.
RYE: But, Ben, you --
KEILAR: I do --
RYE: Sorry, Brianna. You cloaking it in certain other words does not make it any less of a bigoted remark. It doesn't make it any less problematic.
SCOTT: It is not a bigoted remark.
RYE: It is our responsibility as people who are informed in this nation's capitol in talking to --
FERGUSON: I have said multiple times, I do not support -- and I have taken heat from Donald Trump supporters for this. I have said it here today, this happened on CNN. I do not support a ban on religion. That is unconstitutional.
KEILAR: OK. So, I do want to get one last -- you support a moratorium on immigration from areas where there could be threats. I understand what you're saying there, Ben.
FERGUSON: Absolutely.
KEILAR: And there, obviously, are very semantic differences. And I understand, certainly, your objection to that, Angela. I do want to ask you about this sort of cruise -- Cruz, I should say, Trump moment that we have seen here, maybe this bromance between them has hit a bump in the road, I guess you could say. The "New York Times" leaked audio of Cruz slamming Trump and also Ben Carson at a private fund- raiser. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TED CRUZ: Both of them -- I like and respect both Donald and Ben. I do not believe either one of them is going to be our nominee. Their campaigns have a natural arch. Who am I comfortable having their finger on the button? I think, look, people run us who they are. I believe that gravity will bring both of those campaigns down.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KEILAR: OK. But then, a short time ago, Cruz tweeted this. The establishment's only hope, Trump and me in a cage match. Sorry to disappoint, Donald Trump is terrific. Hash tag, deal with it.
Ben, what is up with that? I mean, first off, you sort of have to know that when you say something at a private fundraiser, right, I mean, this nearly, possibly did sink the Romney campaign. It's sort of all fair game, right? But is Cruz trying to clean this up after being caught here?
FERGUSON: I don't think that he's trying to clean it up. I think he's -- I think, in private, he's being a little bit more blunt than maybe in public, because you don't want to get into a trash talking match with Donald Trump. He is the master of trash talking. You don't want to go out there toe-to-toe with him.
So, what I think he's saying is, look, I've got a very good ground game. And let's be honest, there is a ceiling to Donald Trump. And he has maximized that ceiling in the eyes of many voters -- Republican voters. Can he bring new people in? And I think what you're seeing from Cruz is he's saying, I have a much higher ceiling than either of these two candidates. Being the anti-establishment guy will only take you so far. But if is only going to take you so far, but if I'm Cruz right now, I'll play nice in public, because I do not want to go to war with Donald Trump in trash talking because it all -- you're going to lose that battle. You just are.
KEILAR: Yes, and we do see that. Guys, thank you so much for this very spirited conversation. I certainly appreciate you all being here. Ben, Angela, Pastor Darrell, thanks so much.
And coming up, we do have some breaking news for you. This is coming to us out of Afghanistan, a terror attack rocking a foreign embassy. We'll talk to you about who investigators think is responsible here.
And then, live pictures now from San Bernardino where FBI divers are searching a lake there. What are they trying to find? How is this related to the terror attack there? That's ahead.
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[13:17:47] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: We are following some breaking news out of Afghanistan. An explosion rocks the Spanish embassy in the capital city of Kabul. And initial reports say that a car bomb struck the embassy just hours ago. Our senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir has been talking to her sources trying to get to the bottom of this.
And the prime minister, Nima, is calling this a terror attack.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Brianna. He has now come out and confirmed what we've been hearing from our sources for a little while now, that this was a terror attack. What is still unclear though is whether the Spanish embassy was the primary target or whether this was an attack on a broader district of Kabul that hosts foreign nationals, it hosts expatriate workers, it also hosts a big part of the diplomatic community.
We're also hearing - we're working to confirm this - that there have been other - sounds of other explosions ongoing. The Taliban have claimed responsibility for this. But they've claimed it as the beginning of suicide attacks. Of course, this is very worrying phrasing for those still on the ground in Kabul, coming as it does only days after an incredibly complex attack that hit the airports down in Kandahar there, which, of course, is part of that broader U.S. base facility. It also hosts the CI station out there. That attack went on for 26 hour. So this is an extraordinarily different time. We understand authorities are closing off side streets and they're beginning to comb through buildings in the neighborhood, looking, they say, for gunmen that could still be involved with this.
Brianna.
KEILAR: So it's unclear, Nima, if the embassy was the primary target, but do we know anything about how close this attack was to the embassy, whether there were casualties inside of the building? ELBAGIR: Well, it seems to have gotten very close because we know that
a Spanish policemen was among the eight injured. The statement at the moment from the Spanish authorities is that he has been moved to another facility and that he is, at the moment, not considered critical.
But in terms of responsibility, and this is where it gets very complicated, in the middle of an extraordinarily complex attack, is the Taliban were supposed to be at peace talks when this all has started unfolding. They're expected by Pakistan and Afghanistan to be there as we speak. So the question on a lot of people's mind, definitely on a lot of those western intelligence agency sources we've been speaking to, Brianna, is, is this part of the unified Taliban, because there was a big contest for succession, or is this now a fracturing and a splintering? What is really emerging now is that what we're seeing is a Taliban capacity that is extraordinarily worrying, Brianna.
[13:20:18] KEILAR: It sure is.
Nima Elbagir, thank you so much for your report.
And up next, we have some live pictures to show you out of San Bernardino, a lake there, where the FBI, you can see, has just resumed its search. What are investigators looking for? What do they believe the shooters may have hidden there?
Plus, was the male shooter part of a larger terror cell? We have details on that right after this.
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KEILAR: We are following the latest developments in the terror attack in San Bernardino, California. Divers there are searching a lake near the scene of the massacre for a second day now. And authorities say that the husband and wife terrorists, Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik were in this area at some point.
[13:25:09] Farook's ties to a group of jihadists arrested back in 2012 is also under scrutiny now. Officials say that he was in the same social circle as the group's recruiter.
I want to bring in our correspondent, Ana Cabrera. She is in San Bernardino. We also have justice reporter Evan Perez here in Washington about this.
Ana, give us an update here on the search. We've been seeing live pictures of divers going in and out of the water. What are they looking for?
ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Briana, this search resumed about an hour ago. The dive team coming here around 7:00, at daybreak, getting geared up. And now in the water, two of the divers. You can see at times they'll come up. Right now the two are underwater, which is - is why the water looks a little bit glassy behind us. They are working really slowly and methodically, looking for any kind of evidence that might be linked to the San Bernardino shooters.
Now, you can see the water here, as we pan down, is pretty dark. It's murky. It's full of debris. We've seen the divers take out trash at times. But we haven't seen them come up just yet with anything that looks like evidence that they want to hold on to. The FBI assistant director yesterday telling us that this could be a search that takes days here in the water.
This is just a couple of miles north of where that shooting took place last Wednesday, over a week ago now, and they have been scouring, combing any arena the shooters may have been recently. We're told they received a couple of tips that led them to this park area. We understand they've already looked at the park itself and really the lake is what they have left. But they've also warned residents, they may be scouring neighborhoods in the days to come because they want to make sure they leave no stone unturned.
They won't specify what kind of evidence they're looking for, but we do know that at the home of Farook, as well as Malik, there was a missing hard drive from a computer at their home. That is a key piece of evidence that they are hoping to find along their investigation.
Brianna.
KEILAR: Evan -- Evan, what about Farook's ties here to this group of jihadists that were arrested back in 2012? Do we know anything more about that?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Brianna, the key person in that - in that conspiracy was Sohiel Kabir. He's serving 25 years in prison. He was sentenced earlier this year. And he really was described, according to the FBI and in court papers, as this charismatic figure, a walking (ph) mujahedeen on the streets of Los Angeles who helped recruit people, helped convert people to Islam, and then radicalized them. And so the picture that is emerging is one - is somebody who apparently had a lot of influence.
We know now that Farook was among the people that he - was associated with him, was in his social circle. The FBI wants to know a lot more about that because when this case was busted in 2012, that's the cue that Farook and his friend, Enrique Marquez, took to abandon their plans allegedly to carry out their own terrorist attack around 2012. It's important to point out also though that this group that was arrested back in 2012, Riverside - in Riverside, California, right next door, there were four men and they were planning to travel to - overseas to Afghanistan to join al Qaeda and to carry out attacks there. Nothing was planned here at the time, Brianna.
KEILAR: Ana was talking about this hard drive that's missing, but investigators, Evan, have also been able to piece together some of this information from a tablet computer they found, from cell phones.
PEREZ: Right.
KEILAR: They're still working to get some more of this information. Do they think that Farook and his wife were planning other larger attacks?
PEREZ: They do. They really do believe that there was - there had to be something bigger. A lot of - a lot of what investigators are finding really doesn't make sense. And what they really want is to recover data from the two smashed cell phones that they did recover. They think that that's going to take some time before they're able to do that. And this hard drive, because they believe that whatever Farook and Malik were trying to hide is definitely what they want to know. Were they in contact with foreign terrorist groups? Were they in touch with anybody else perhaps? Were they part of a larger network? What else was on their plan? Very much they believe is going to be answered by this data that's either on those two cell phones, and this hard drive computer. They hope that they - those answers will be on those - on those - on those devices.
KEILAR: Evan Perez here in Washington, Ana Cabrera for us in San Bernardino, thank you guys so much.
[13:29:38] Ahead, the FBI director briefing House and Senate intel committee members on the California terror attack. That meeting is behind closed doors. We'll be speaking to one senator inside of the room, next.
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