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Soon: Trump Takes Voter Questions In South Carolina; Trump Launches First Attacks Against Ted Cruz; Improving Intelligence in the Fiance Visa Program; Baltimore Ramping Up Security as Trial Verdict Expected; ISIS Remains Best Funded Terror Group; Army V. Navy. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired December 12, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Let's go to South Carolina right now, Eakins, South Carolina, where you're about to see live pictures of a rally that is about to get underway, where Donald Trump is, and our own CNN Sunlen Serfaty is also there. There you go.

There's a wide shot there, hasn't quite gotten underway yet, but people are there, poised and ready for the Donald to make his entrance. Sunlen Serfaty is also there and also keeping a close watch on what's now becoming a little verbal fighting match between the former friend, Ted Cruz, and Donald Trump.

It's hard to know whether this is serious, whether this is a prelude to what's to come, or if this is just what happens when it's down to the wire, weeks before the first primary or caucus -- Sunlen.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right, Fred. It is getting closer to the first votes being cast at the end -- in just a few months in Iowa. So there seems to be a little bit of nervousness on Donald Trump's part, Ted Cruz really gaining on him in the polls in Iowa.

So this has really been a battle that's been brewing between them quietly for quite some time, but it really has reached a boiling point in comments that Ted Cruz made earlier in the week, a private fund-raiser, really questioning Donald Trump's readiness to be president.

It really does feel like Donald Trump really took this as a message that he could open up the floodgates and go after Ted Cruz directly, really counterpunching strong last night in Des Moines. Here's a little bit of what he told the crowd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So I think we're going to do -- we're doing really well with the evangelicals. And by the way, again, I do like Ted Cruz, but not a lot of evangelicals come out of Cuba, in all fairness. It's true. Not a lot come out. But I like him, nevertheless. But what the ethanol, really,

it's -- he's got to come a long way because he's right now for the oil. I understand it. Oil pays him a lot of money. He's got to be for oil, right?

The oil companies give him a lot of money, so -- but I'm with you. I'm with everybody. I'm with everybody. Look, I'm self- funding. I have no oil company, I have no special interests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now, all of those arguments that Donald Trump made there are very specific, very pointed, specifically for Iowa, caucus-goers, this is a state where Ted Cruz is really mounting a big challenge to Donald Trump, certainly very specific in his response there, Fred.

Today, Donald Trump said that he was just having a little fun with Ted Cruz, but he did add another item on the list of criticisms for Ted Cruz, saying that he thinks that he has a better temperament than Ted Cruz to be president.

We'll see if he brings that same sort of line of attack here on the debate stage in South Carolina -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Sunlen Serfaty, thanks so much. Saw folks getting a little excited for a moment, and they're still at their seats, we're not sure where we are in this program, but at any moment now, it will get underway. Sunlen, you keep us posted. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.

Terror and national security will be the main topic at Tuesday night's Republican debate in Las Vegas and as you can see, it is still a pretty large field of GOP candidates right there.

Joining me right now, Larry Sabato, is the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. So Larry, Trump leading with voters on the issue of ISIS and terrorism, according to polling.

What did the others on stage, really, what do all of the candidates need to say, how do they need to establish themselves as it pertains to national security with ISIS and other terrorist threats being global threats?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Well, Fred, the obvious thing is they have to make a case for their own experience and ability to deal with terrorism and national security. But we're at the point now, where it's time to put away the playing of paddy cake.

We're down to the end here. It's six weeks until Iowa and it's pretty clear that except in Iowa, where Ted Cruz may now be the front- runner, rather than Donald Trump, Trump is the front-runner everywhere else.

As Trump has said, they're running against one another. So it doesn't make any sense to avoid conflict. It does make sense to compare and contrast.

[12:05:13]WHITFIELD: And it's remarkable that we're looking at polling numbers and it's not really based on specificity from really any of the candidates, is it?

I mean, at this point, the last GOP debate of this year, CNN hosting, how imperative is it that all of these candidates try to stand out by giving real specifics, in order to, you know, secure support come those primaries and caucuses?

SABATO: Well, they have to give some specifics. Look, this is the last moment anybody's going to remember from 2015, in terms of the presidential campaign. Even the candidates know that people do other things over the holidays. So this is it.

The next time people are going to take up a presidential campaign, it will be early January. It will be, say, three weeks ahead of February 1st and the Iowa caucus. So this is a critical moment for all of those candidates.

And I think especially for the back and forth we're going to see between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. That's certainly what I'm going to be looking for.

WHITFIELD: All right, let's talk about Democrat Hillary Clinton. She's stepping up her attack on the GOP candidates' inexperience in national security. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to take on this adversary, this terrorist network known as ISIS. I'm the only candidate who's actually been outlining a specific plan as to what I would do to defeat them!

You know, the others, they talk a lot, they throw out, you know, all of these approaches, but I've been in the situation room in the White House, and I know what it's going to take and I will keep America safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: OK, so Larry, so we're talking about, you know, how any of the GOP candidates have to distinguish themselves, whether it's to be, you know, continuing arguing, whether they are specific or not. They can't avoid not being specific, when going toe-to-toe with Hillary Clinton, who is being very clear, underscoring her experience on that national security level.

SABATO: Yes, and notice, Hillary Clinton is ratcheting up the rhetoric and there are two reasons for that. The first is, she's fallen off the radar screen, the entire Democratic contest has. It's Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

And then she's decided, and I think this is probably a wise decision, she has decided to paint all the Republicans in various shades of Trump colors, because after all, the Democrats don't know any more than the rest of us who she's going to end up running against in the end. So she wants to paint them all as being clones of Donald Trump.

WHITFIELD: All right. Larry Sabato, thanks so much. We'll see you soon. Appreciate it. Watch CNN on Tuesday night for the final GOP debate of the year moderated by Wolf Blitzer. Our coverage starts at 6:00 p.m. Eastern Time and find out the lineup for the debates tomorrow on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper at 9 a.m. Eastern Time. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:11:27]

WHITFIELD: GOP candidates stumping just three days away from the CNN Republican presidential debate, and there's Donald Trump there in Eakins, South Carolina, talking to a crowd of supporters there.

We'll continue to monitor your comments, what he has to say to the crowd, what appears to be dozens, perhaps the number is even greater than that, but that's what we can see from our vantage point. We'll monitor his comments and bring them to you as we can.

Now to breaking news in the investigation of the San Bernardino massacre. Divers have pulled items out of a lake. It's about three miles from the site where Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, killed 14 people more than a week ago.

CNN's Ana Cabrera is following the story for us, joining us now live. What do we know about what they have located?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, I can tell you divers are just getting back in the water again. This morning, we saw them getting in within the last 10 minutes or so. This is day number three we saw them out here searching this lake.

And we did confirm this morning that over the past day and a half or so, they have found a number of items in the lake, although FBI officials can't confirm exactly what they found or whether they know for sure if it's related to the case.

And we were cautioned that, of course, in a public lake like this, they may find all kinds of different items, as you can imagine, and they'll have to do further investigation to determine whether or not they are connected to the shooters.

Now, we know they have been looking for that missing hard drive that the couple apparently removed from the computer at their home. That could be a crucial piece of the investigation, and voters are going to leave no stone unturned.

As they continue to look for evidence that might be able to tell them who these shooters were in contact with in the weeks or months or even years leading up to this attack that happened now about ten days ago.

We do know that investigators have combed the area surrounding the lake. They got a tip that the shooters were in this area, on the day of the massacre -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ana Cabrera, thanks so much. Let's talk more about this search and the retrieval of any items from that lake in the San Bernardino area. I'm joined now by the president and CEO of InteliSecure, Rob Eggebrecht. Rob, good to see you.

ROB EGGEBRECHT, PRESIDENT AND CEO, INTELISECURE: Hi, how are you?

WHITFIELD: I'm good. So we know there was this missing hard drive from the couple's computer. If indeed that hard drive recovered from this lake, how difficult would it be to retrieve any data after maybe ten days of submersion?

EGGEBRECHT: Fred, there's really three areas that they're going to have to be concerned with. One, and really the easiest to overcome, is the physical damage of being submerged. And frankly, we're going to need the investigators that are going to be involved in this.

They're going to be very experienced and that's going to be the easy piece. The second piece is going to be if the hard drive has been encrypted. If it's been encrypted, it depends on what type of encryption, the complexity of it.

And frankly, if these people didn't have a vast amount of expertise around encryption technology, if they were using basic encryption techniques, federal investigators should have a fairly easy time to overcome that.

And the third piece would be if they're using standard what we call data-wiping tools, things like d-band, et cetera. And those, again, federal investigators should have a pretty easy time overcoming that.

But, again, the combination of water submersion, encryption, and if they did use data-wiping technology, I think it would elongate the process, but chances are, again, just being submerged underwater, that will be the least of the issues the investigators face.

[12:15:04]WHITFIELD: Interesting. So is it just a matter of days to say, give the item time to dry out. Try to discover if it's encrypted or, you know, if it has been wiped. Is this something that takes -- the sequence of events takes course over many days or is it even weeks?

EGGEBRECHT: Well, initially, they only go through three phases. One is an assessment phase and then they're going to do -- it's acquisition, assessment, and then reporting. And the acquisition of the information, really taking a look at it, drying it out, things like that.

That's just really, I mean, once they get it out and get it dried out, it's really a matter of hours to start taking a look at, once you have it upping and running you can power it on. Once it's power it on and they have access to it, it becomes a fairly quick process again unless it's encrypted.

I think what you see in most cases like this, again, if the users weren't sophisticated, we're not talking nation state type of encryption and data-wiping tools, this moves fairly quickly. You can see within days, they're probably going to have a pretty good view of the information that's available.

And also, what gets interesting for them is not only the hard drive itself. But they'll see things that were connected to USB sticks, other machines, and potentially network connections.

So where they were finding things on the web or who they were communicating with, but it will move fairly quickly, again, if the encryption, those sort of technologies weren't at nation state type level.

WHITFIELD: All within a matter of days. Rob Eggebrecht, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

EGGEBRECHT: No problem. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, and this breaking news out of Switzerland. Police raids in Geneva have led them to an unnerving discovery at a home of what they say is a radicalized individual. Finding what they say is impressive arsenal of weapons in a home along with a flag of the third Reich.

Two suspected terrorists of Syrian origin have also been arrested. Authorities also found traces of chemicals that could be made into explosives or harmful substances in their car. It's still unclear if the arrests are connected to the raid on the home or if they were involved with the transport of explosive substances.

The city of Geneva remains on high alert after a tip from U.S. intelligence that terrorists were planning to attack the city. Officials say raids will continue.

All right, next, a fire breaking out at a mosque where people are praying inside. Why investigators believe it might be an arson case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:21:19]

WHITFIELD: The FBI describes a fire at a mosque as, quote, "an intentional act." The building in Coachella, California, caught fire as Muslims prayed. Everyone fled to the street, where they continued their prayers. This follows another recent incident at another California mosque. Here is CNN's Victor Blackwell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY" (voice-over): The security guard for the mosque says he saw the fire from miles away.

RAY BREWSTER, MOSQUE SECURITY GUARD: I pulled up to the intersection, I turned left, and there's a huge plume of smoke, a mushroom cloud.

BLACKWELL: Witnesses and police said someone threw some incendiary device at the mosque around noon Friday. The fire burned the front doors and spread to the lobby before firefighters put it out. Everyone got out safely and mosque members were forced to pray on the streets outside.

ABDULA SALAAM, MEMBER, ISLAMIC CENTER OF THE COACHELA VALLEY: As you had seen the brothers over there praying on the outside, that's one of the obligations we do. We pray and do our prayers. Over here on the dirt, not on the rug, but that's what we do. We pray, give a little message, a positive message, and we go back to work.

BLACKWELL: This attack comes a year after someone fired several shots into the same mosque. That shooter was never caught.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you work at a mosque, I'm sure you can imagine -- or any church, really -- but a mosque, it's in the back of your mind.

BLACKWELL: The Riverside County supervisor compared the firebombing to what happened in San Bernardino last week an hour west of the mosque.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If, in fact, it is, as it appears, an intentional act against this church because of reasons against their religion, I would think that was terrorism. And terrorism is terrorism, no matter whether it's like we saw in San Bernardino or someone who reacts, they're both terrorists.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: California Congressman Paul Ruiz called for the firebombing to be investigated as a hate crime. And according to the council on American Islamic Relations, this has been a record-year for anti-Muslim acts.

According to their latest reports, there have been more than 60 accounts of harassment and vandalism reported. Victor Blackwell, CNN, Atlanta.

WHITFIELD: Next, a new potential threat from ISIS. The terror group may now have the ability to make fake passports. The disturbing development coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:34]

WHITFIELD: A new poll showing Americans are now more fearful of another terror attack on the United States than they were in the weeks following the 9/11 attack. The poll shows 79 percent of Americans think another terror attack is likely in the United States within the next few months.

And now, new intelligence shows ISIS has obtained ways to make fake passports. Our Rene Marsh has the details.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Fred, this new intelligence report warns that ISIS may have access to a Syrian government passport printing machine and boxes of blank passports.

The report also says someone with a fake document may have entered the United States, although there's no hard evidence of that at this point.

But what's concerning for Homeland Security officials is these phony passports allow terrorists to hide their international travel, allowing foreign fighters to come and go undetected.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH (voice-over): A new intelligence report warns ISIS has the capability to create fake passports for international travel.

SENATOR ANGUS KING (I), SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Part of territory they took over happened to have a building where the Syrians processed passports. So they have blank passports and they have the means to print them and fake them. This is obviously another level of concern that we have to pay attention to.

MARSH: U.S. officials are also concerned ISIS may have access to biographical data and fingerprints for Syrian citizens that could be used for phony I.D.s.

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: The intelligence community is concerned that they have the ability, the capability, to manufacture fraudulent passports, which is a concern in any setting.

MARSH: Following the Paris attacks, investigators found fraudulent Syrian passports on two of the terrorists. The U.S. government has since expanded its efforts to flag to other countries suspected documents terrorists could exploit to travel. A Syrian refugee in Paris told "OUTFRONT" just how easy it is to obtain a fake Syrian passport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It costs you about 700 euros, less, maybe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I could have one of these --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By your name, an American name, even an Arabic name or any name.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything I want?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your photo, your name, anything you want.

MARSH: State Department spokesman, John Kirby said the department has been tracking the terror group's ability to make passports.

JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We have been aware that they have may have obtained this capability. Obviously, it's something that we take seriously.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: Well, these individuals cannot just travel to the United States using a passport alone. They would need a visa. In order to get a visa, they need to be screened by the State Department, which includes fingerprinting. So there are checks and balances in place.

That said, a passport is a fundamental travel document and anytime it's used to circumvent the legal process, that's a major concern -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Our Rene Marsh, thank you so much. Joining us now to talk about more about this is the former chief of the U.S. Office of Citizenship and the executive director of Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles. Good to see you, Alfonso Aguilar.

So, Alfonso, how concerning is it to you that there would be this ability to create doctored, fake, Syrian passports as Rene was just reporting on?

ALFONSO AGUILAR, FORMER CHIEF OF THE U.S. OFFICE OF CITIZENSHIP: Well, it is very concerning and when you look at our immigration system, I think that is the biggest challenge is our intelligence capabilities to detect this type -- very concerning.

[12:30:02] And when you look at our integration system, I think that is the biggest challenge is our intelligence capabilities. Our ability to detect this type of setting that if we're presented with a passport that is fraudulent, that we can actually identify as such.

And I think that's a challenge we have overall within our immigration system, when we look at, for example, K-visas. One of the terrorists that was involved in the December bandido attack, what came in with a K-visa so I think with the fiance visa, she was petitioned by the other terrorist, who was a U.S. citizen and apparently that the fiancee was already radicalized.

WHITFIELD: Right, so you're talking about Tashfeen Malik.

AGUILAR: Correct. And so Mrs. Malik had been radicalized already in her country of origin in Pakistan but we didn't know it. So at the end, the problem is intelligence gathering.

And in the case of Pakistan, obviously, we're not communicating effectively with Pakistani intelligence or we didn't have the human intelligence to get the information we needed to identify her as somebody who could potentially become a terrorist in the United States.

So at the end, it is intelligence gathering. But, you know, but when you look at our free society like ours, what are we to do? The only thing we can do is improve our intelligence capabilities. But what we cannot do is shut down our immigration system.

WHITFIELD: Right, OK so improving intelligence, let me ask you a little bit more about that because in general, perhaps people are not familiar with -- what are the, you know, questions that would be asked for a fiance visa.

Clearly, you know, there are very intentional questions and there is great studying in the part of, you know, those who are disseminating the visas, who are approving the visas to watch for language, to ask further questions about, you know, what was the last place you visited and that area may be known to be a place where people are radicalized.

So if that didn't work for this particular applicant, for Malik, what do you see as additional questions or additional layers that have to be added to say, for instance, the fiance visa program that would better ensure a weeding out or a screening of applicants or those who are allowed into the U.S.?

AGUILAR: You know, frankly, in terms of questions asked to the petitioner or to the fiance abroad at the consulate or the embassy, I mean, the process is very rigorous right now.

The only thing we can do is improve the intelligence gathering. That's why the Obama administration has ordered a review of the K-visa process to look at how we can improve our information gathering capabilities. But we're not going to get more information from those people. If it's a terrorist who wants to come into the United States and do harm, they're going to be prepared.

So, I mean, there are measures that we can take once the person enters the United States, and they may be controversial. For example, remember after 9/11, we required people from certain countries in the Middle East, that have -- where there's terrorist activities or that produced terrorists to register with Homeland Security, that program was called NFEARS (ph).

Well, perhaps we should be looking at something like that where people coming from the Middle East, we and in the United States, we have them check in from time to time with Homeland Security, to ensure that everything is going OK.

I mean, we just saw in congress, a change in the visa waiver program, where if somebody's a french citizen, but it's also -- has a dual citizenship and he's also a Syrian citizen, they're going to request -- they're going to -- not going to be able to enter without a visa. They're going to have to request a visa.

So measures like that could allow us to monitor those individual, once they enter the United States. But there's no substitute to improving intelligence gathering capabilities.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, so lots of modifications that must be down the pipeline.

Alfonso Aguilar, thank you so much.

AGUILAR: Thank you for having me.

WHITFIELD: All right, still to come, the defense has rested in the trial of a Baltimore police officer charged in the death of Freddie Gray.

Now both sides are getting ready for closing arguments.

[12:34:30] Next the legal guys weigh in on what the defense and prosecution need to say.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, the city of Baltimore is ramping up security precautions as the first of six Freddie Gray manslaughter trials draws closer to a verdict.

The police commissioner has now canceled leave next week for all police officers and scheduled them to work 12-hour shifts to ensure enough police are on duty ahead of the jury's ruling on the fate of Officer William Porter.

Our Jean Casarez has the latest.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The defense has rested and now on Monday, jury instructions and closing arguments in the criminal trial of Baltimore Police Officer, William Porter.

Porter, is one officer, one of six charged in the death of Freddie Gray. It all began on April 12th when Freddie Gray in west Baltimore was arrested and put into the police transport van.

Defendant William Porter was an officer that was there that day, and the heart and soul of the prosecutor's case are the six stops that that transport van made with Freddie Gray inside, before it got to the police headquarters.

Somewhere along the way, Freddie Gray suffered a catastrophic neck injury to his spinal cord. And it's the prosecution's theory that especially on stop number four, when William Porter said to Freddie Gray, "What's up?" And Gray said, either "Help" or "Help me up," and then the defendant asked him "Do you need a medic?" And Freddie Gray said, "Yes."

William Porter did not call for a medic and did not put a seatbelt on to restrain Freddie Gray.

Prosecutors say that is criminal negligence right there and a reasonable police officer in the same position would have called for medic and would have put a seatbelt on Freddie Gray.

The defense is saying that Officer Porter knew Freddie Gray, he knew him from the streets, saw him almost everyday. And that Freddie Gray when he was arrested never wanted to go to jail and would say anything he could to get out of it.

[12:40:10] Jean Casarez, CNN, Baltimore, Maryland.

WHITFIELD: All right, let's discuss this latest in Porter's trial with our legal guys joining me now, Richard Herman, a New York Criminal Defense Attorney and Law Professor. Hello, good to see you. And -- oh, it looks like you're in an office. Are you actually in New York this weekend?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, in Vegas, Sin City.

WHITFIELD: Oh, OK, all right. There we go, back to the norm, all right back to Vegas.

Avery Friedman, a Civil Rights Attorney and Law Professor joining us as well, all right from Cleveland, right.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Yes.

WHITFIELD: All right, gentlemen, all right good to see you.

So Richard, you first, now this outcome is potentially precedent setting with five other officers who are going to go on trial. What did you hear during this trial that you expect closing arguments to focus on?

HERMAN: Well, Fred, what I've -- from what I've read from the trial, and I was not there, but from what I've read, it appears to me this prosecution should not have been brought.

I don't think it's a winnable case. I don't think they have any chance to win this case, unless the jury comes in with a preconceived notion and idea and mission to convict everybody in all this cases.

Here, the burden is so high on the government to prove that this Officer Porter deviated from the conduct of a reasonable police officer under those circumstances and that he knew he was endangering the life of Freddie Gray.

FRIEDMAN: That's right.

HERMAN: That is a very, very high standard, Fred. They have not proven that.

The officer testified that's in, you know, it's a case-by-case decision, whether you put the defendant on the stand. Rule of thumb is usually your way.

But here they have too. And I believe he saved himself. I think his testimony was credible. He said he spoke to Freddie at the fourth stop when the prosecution says Freddie was basically dead.

He spoke to him on the fourth stop. He put him in the chair. The issue with respect to the seatbelts, which will permeate this entire case and was developed here, Fred, is that it was an administrative procedure. It was not something that was...

FRIEDMAN: It was a guideline.

WHITFIELD: Avery.

FRIEDMAN: Here's the difference. Here's the difference. I'm actually in somewhat accord in what's being said here because when Porter testified, Fredricka, he said that in transporting prisoners, he's transported 150 prisoners, and, you know, how many were belted up? Zero.

So I think in that respect, if the question is reasonable doubt, I think the defense has shown that. I mean the arguments are going to focus in on this question. They want to convict him of negligent homicide based on the fact that he didn't hook up a seatbelt. And I think that's going to be a problem.

There were equal number of witnesses, basically, the prosecution has about 16, defense had about 12. But bottom line, I think there's reasonable doubt. I don't know why they tried this case first. I think that could have been stronger ones. But let's see what happens, since it's going to affect the other five defendants that will go on trial starting in January.

HERMAN: More important, Fred, two issues come out here that destroy the prosecution's case. One, it's the position of the prosecution that by the fourth stop, Freddie's spinal cord was severed.

Well, Officer Porter testified, not only did he speak with Freddie, but sat him up in the chair...

FRIEDMAN: Between four and five, right. The experts have blown that up by the way.

The experts have said that the death occurred...

HERMAN: Avery, let me finish, please.

And number two, the most important point is here, that Fred, Officer Porter said he told the driver, who was the captain of the ship, he told him that Freddie did not want to go to the police, to the hospital, but you may want to take him there.

And the officer...

FRIEDMAN: And that's what he did. He told his superior to do that.

WHITFIELD: So then Avery, I think what Richard is spelling out, and then it also says that there was some compassion, perhaps. I mean the first point being made by both of you that this was the norm. If no one was seatbelted, there were no extenuating circumstances here at least that will be the argument, right, that Freddie Gray was not treated any differently.

And now we're talking about this, you know, conversation that perhaps there was some compassion that Mr. Porter was exhibiting and how might that help influence the jury, Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Well, that's everything. That's the credibility of taking the chance of putting the defendant on.

Look, somebody has to be accountable to the death of Freddie Gray. Is this the case based on what we're seeing up to this point? I think we're in accord. It is unlikely I think they're going to get a conviction for this kind of homicide. It's going to be very...

WHITFIELD: What type of that though Richard, would the argument also still be made that even if this is the norm, if it is unhumane, since that is one of the charges, wouldn't that also be an indictment not just on the officer who is carrying out the norm, but it would also be an indictment against the system saying, this norm, there's something wrong with it, and it potentially leads to someone's death?

[12:45:07] HERMAN: Right, it was an administrative position to seatbelt in. The area is not very large. He was shackled, he was in a seat, he was there would a reasonable police officer under those circumstances, who found a prisoner on the floor, would they -- what would they do at that point? What would their actions be? What he did was, he told the driver, he had a conversation with Freddie, and according to the government's position here, Freddie's spinal cord was severed by the fourth stop. So he could not have -- they blew it up.

FRIEDMAN: The experts have blown that up.

(CROSSTALK)

FRIEDMAN: The experts have blown that up. Yeah, bottom line, experts have blown that up. There's reasonable doubt here. This is going to be a very difficult one for the prosecutors to win, but, again, there are five to go, including coming up, the driver of the van, Caesar Goodson Jr., and that's really going to be the big case of this.

WHITFIELD: Right.

FRIEDMAN: That's kind of some on the driver Fred. That something that came out of this. They dumped on the driver. He's going to have to go higher.

HERMAN: That's right.

WHITFIELD: His trial will be upcoming as well. And we'll hear what the response might be from him. All right, Avery Friedman and Richard Herman, thanks so much to both of you gentleman. Always good to see you. Appreciate it.

FRIEDMAN: Thank you, Fred.

WHITEFIELD: All right. We'll be right back.

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WHITFIELD: ISIS remains the best-funded terrorist group in history with an estimated income of $1 million to $2 million a day.

[12:50:05] A CNN money investigation finds the bulk of that money comes from stealing, taxing, or forcing bribes from location populations along with oil smuggling. But the terror group is increasingly turning to an age-old source of cash in the Middle East. The stealing and smuggling of ancient antiquities.

Drew Griffin has more. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: The evidence is already popping up, unsolicited, on computer screens and cell phones across the world. Pictures like these, offering ancient antiquities in a fire sale from a land on fire. Roman coins, golden earrings, museum pieces, ripped off the wall in Mosul. The seller,ISIS. The buyer, the highest bidder.

MICHAEL DANTE, AMERICAN SCHOOL OF ORIENTIAL RESEACH CULTURAL HERITAGE: They loot everything that's not nailed down.

GRIFFIN: Michael Dante is Academic Director of the American School of oriental research. He consults for the state department on what he sees as ISIS systemic looting of the Middle East's ancient past.

DANTE: They actively promote looting among their fighters as a way to generate income for the organization. They don't make this is a secret. It's done brazenly, very overtly.

GRIFFIN: In February, ISIS destroyed statues at the Mosul Museum. In October, it was the 1,800-year-old arch in Palmyra blown up. Images that caused worldwide condemnation. But there's something ISIS isn't showing you, and that's what it's keeping and selling.

This Hercules is a museum piece. This piece of pottery from a repository in Raqqah, still bearing its number. It is the smallest items that pose the biggest problems. Dante shows us Roman gold coins and ancient glass, even figurines, most likely robbed from graves or libraries or private collections. Low end items that can fetch thousands to tens of thousands of dollars and flow across old smuggling routes without much trouble.

DANTE: Yeah. You could easily put this inside of a laptop bag.

GRIFFIN: This collection being sold in batch could literally be walking out of Syria right now if it hasn't already.

DANTE: With antiquities, a single trafficker can walk across the border, slip through a hole in the Turkish border fence, empty their pockets, and make $40,000 or $50,000 on the antiquities they've carried across.

GRIFFIN: Last May, U.S. special forces raided the Syrian outpost and killed an ISIS leader named Abu Sayef. It turns out he was an ISIS money man, in charge of a massive smuggling operation. Evidence found helped coalition forces target refineries, oil pipelines, and finally start attacking those tanker trucks use to hole oil out.

But the raid also found clues that pointed to a business like system of looting antiquities. Actual permits giving grave robbers, archaeological scavengers and thieves ISIS issued permits to dig.

BONNIE MAGNESS-GARDINER, FBI ART THEFT DIVISION: We can see from the satellite photographs, for example, that it is industrial-scale looting. GRIFFIN: Matthew Levitt studies ISIS financing for the Washington institute for Near East Policy. The fact that stolen antiquities are becoming a bigger source of funding show success in containing other sources of ISIS cash, but the terror group, he says, is resilient.

As oil revenues drop or get hampered, the hunt for antiquities and smuggling and permit issuing increases.

MATTHEW LEVITT, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: Think of it as squeezing a balloon not hard enough to pop it, but hard enough to squeeze it. If you squeeze it here, it will expand somewhere else. We have seen in the past and we can expect to see now, they will expand into other directions.

GRIFFIN: And what's not being contained or squeezed or even slowed is the ideology of ISIS that continues to spread. Levitt believes the money will continue to flow to ISIS, even if that means digging holes in the ground to find it. Drew Griffin, CNN, Washington.

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WHITFIELD: All right. Still to come, Donald Trump is speaking live in South Carolina and we understand some protesters just disrupted him. We'll have more on that coming up at the top of the hours.

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[12:58:29] WHITFIELD: It is one of the biggest rivalries in college sports, and also one of the oldest, the army/navy game where soldiers take on sailors We'll kick off Americans game is a couple of hours away. But at the game day, traditions have already gotten started.

Coy Wire is in Philadelphia for us. Coy?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS: Hi, Fred. This game dates all the way back to the year 1890, and most rivalries are divisive, but this one unites. Most of the players in this game don't dream of going to the NFL, they have visions of graduating and working together to serve their nation and in some cases put their lives on the line for each of us.

It's a gorgeous day here in Philadelphia, and moments ago, the corps of cadets and by grade of midshipmen gathered to enter the stadium conducts one of the most iconic traditions of the game, the march-on. They line the field, salute, and show respect for one another and take their places in the stands and await the big game.

Now just as this event is so much more than a game, navy's record- setting quarterback, Keenan Reynolds, is so much more than a football player. He's an inspiration. Take a look at this young man's course list. It's absolutely and positively impressive. National Security decision, making in the cyber age, politics of a regular warfare. Not the ordinary course load of your football player, Fred. And he's a disciplined, dedicated future leader of our nation. I had some time to spend with Keenan and I asked him about his erudition outside of the game.

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KEENAN REYNOLDS, NAVY ALL-TIME RUSHING LEADER: It's big, you know, the courses that we take kind of prominence for what we need to be successful out in the field as leader.

[13:00:01] WIRE: When you hear about the things that happened in Paris and now in San Bernardino, California. Does that move you?

REYNOLDS: Definitely kind of reminds you why already here, the commitment, the bigger commitment that you made to serve you country.