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Leaked Cruz Audio Has Trump Ready to Attakck; Building a Strategy for Defeating ISIS; Poll: Trump Leading GOP Nationally. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 12, 2015 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Poppy Harlow, 4:00 p.m. Eastern, thank you so much for being with me.
We start with politics and a new fight at the top of the Republican presidential race. Donald Trump finally taking a swing at his rival, one that he has spared until now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One guy that's doing pretty good with me in Iowa is Ted Cruz. He's a nice guy. I mean, everything I say, he agrees with me, no matter what I say, I was going to do one really wild, but he agrees.
And again, I do like Ted Cruz, but not a lot of evangelicals come out of Cuba. He's got to come a long way, because he's right now for the oil, but I understand it, oil pays him a lot of money, he's got to be for oil, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: For most of the year, Trump and Cruz have had what "The Washington Post" described as, "an odd political bromance, lavishing each other with praise or just saying nothing at all." But their relationship hit a rocky patch this week when Cruz questioned Trump's judgment during a private fundraising dinner. Trump's able to hear the comments thanks to leaked audio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like and respect both Donald and Ben, but I think in both instances in particular, you look at Paris, you look at San Bernardino, it's given a seriousness to this race. That people are looking for, who is prepared to be commander in chief, and I think people run as who they are. I believe that gravity will bring both of those campaigns down. I think the lion's share of their supporters come to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: And then there are the polls. Take a look at this, new numbers from Monmouth University showing Cruz leading Trump in Iowa 24 to 19 percent. We are just 50 days away from the caucuses.
Let's bring in CNN political reporter M.J. Lee. You know, it's interesting, I think, how Trump is going after Cruz instead of character based, it is more issues based. And I just wonder what your take is on that poll, the Monmouth University poll, shows Cruz is ahead by five points in Iowa. How is that affecting this bromance, as "The Washington Post" put it?
M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: I would actually call it more of a frenemies situation. Trump and Cruz both badly, badly want to win Iowa. Winning Iowa is so crucial if you're a Republican candidate, one, because it's, obviously, the first state and sends a message if you win that state that I'm a serious candidate and I could win the nomination.
It's also very coveted because it has such a sizable evangelical population and as you said, I think the fact that Trump is going after Cruz so specifically on Iowa issues is really interesting. If I could read one thing that Trump said about Cruz, "I do like Ted Cruz, but not a lot of evangelicals come out of Cuba, sort of a strange way of, I guess, questioning Cruz's religious background, something we know Trump has done with Ben Carson, as well. He's also gone after Cruz for opposing ethanol subsidies, calling that anti-Iowa.
HARLOW: At the same time, let me read you what Donald Trump said in Fort Dodge in Iowa at one point. He said, "how stupid are the people of Iowa?" this is only about a month ago when Ben Carson was leading, saying why would they be voting for Ben Carson.
LEE: That's right.
HARLOW: Does that matter, does it resonate?
LEE: Clearly it did resonate because we saw a lot of Iowa not happy about that response, and I think his response to this poll, this one poll that shows Cruz ahead of Trump in Iowa was really interesting. Let's take a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, we're leading in most of the polls. We're leading in every poll. Every poll. Except Iowa, though, one poll, Monmouth, I've never even heard of Monmouth, what the hell is Monmouth? Explain it. I don't like Monmouth. You know why I don't like it? Because they always treat me badly also.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: So this is a pretty Trump-ian response to this poll, basically saying, look, "I'm the victim here. I've been cheated."
HARLOW: Blaming the source.
LEE: Right. Blaming the source. You know, Trump does this with various publications when polls come out that he's not happy, he's say well, this is so and so's fault, so he's sort of in denial right now that he is, you know, being given a run for his money by Ted Cruz.
[16:05:12]
HARLOW: Quickly, let's look at what Ted Cruz tweeted in response to all of this, guys let's bring that up, "the establishment only hope Trump and me in a cage match. Sorry to disappoint, disappoint, @DonaldTrump is terrific, deal with it." What do you make of that? It's like Ted Cruz is trying to make nice.
LEE: Cruz just does not want to go after Trump and I think he's figured out that is not really the best use of his time or his energy. When a candidate goes after Trump, they are all aware of what happens, he comes back ferociously and for Cruz it's just not worth going there.
For him, it's about, you know, keeping the long game in mind, campaigning in places like Iowa, but also campaigning in some of the super Tuesday states and making sure that he has sort of the groundwork laid out in place so he can really compete later.
HARLOW: Later this hour we're going to have a Cruz surrogate on, Kelly Conway, we'll talk about this. And you know what, he's done incredibly well, Ttrump, I mean, Cruz, with the evangelicals in Iowa (INAUDIBLE).
MJ, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Today Donald Trump spent the day in another early voting state, critical state of South Carolina. His rally though there interrupted not once, not twice, four times when protesters were escorted out.
CNN's Sunlen Serfaty was there when it happened, she joins me now. What sparkled it?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, it's really interesting, especially recently Donald Trump's rallies have been in large part been consistently interrupted by protesters. Today was really no exception. At least nine people were escorted out at multiple times during this event here in South Carolina, escorted out by police after they stood out and were protesting.
The first protest really was prompted when Donald Trump started talking about his controversial proposal to ban Muslims coming into the U.S. many people wearing badges that said "stop Islamophobia," so certainly a lot of people here today specifically coming to protest that.
To note, there was a state poll out this week in South Carolina, Poppy, that showed 72 percent of Trump supporters are in support of the ban here in South Carolina, so certainly Donald Trump understanding that, speaking out and reaching out to his base here in South Carolina. Poppy?
HARLOW: Absolutely. And I do think it's interesting we didn't hear him once today, Donald Trump, bring up Ted Cruz. SERFATY: That's right. I think it was most notable we did not hear anything about Ted Cruz coming from Donald Trump at this rally today. You know, of course, there has been a battle brewing this week between the two of them and Donald Trump unleashed the flood gates as you were talking about moments ago in Des Moines, going after him in very specific topics that will resonate with Iowa caucus vote caucus goers.
He did that on purpose, obviously, knowing that the listen to message about evangelicals, listen to messages about ethanol subsidies, but today he had nothing to say about Ted Cruz. Early in the day, though, he was on Fox News talking about this little battle. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, we've had a very good relationship, but I'm sure it will end, because, you know, he's got to come after me at some point. I'm leading by a lot, as you know, so at some point he's going to come after me, but I like him. I think he likes me, and we've had some fun on the trail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY: I think that's an admission that this battle will eventually come to a head and Donald Trump understands that seems to me that he's ready and willing, certainly sets an interesting backdrop to the debate on Tuesday. Poppy?
HARLOW: Fifty days, 50 days, that's when it comes to a head, Iowa caucuses. Sunlen, thank you very much.
And tomorrow on "State of the Union," 9:00 a.m. Eastern, that is when you'll see Jake Tapper's one-on-one with Donald Trump. It's also where you'll hear for the first time who will make the coveted main stage for the last GOP debate of the year. That debate just three days away, Tuesday night in Las Vegas. CNN is partnering with the Salem Radio Network on the debate. To find the debate on your radio in your area, go to salemmedia.com.
Well, last night Donald Trump called surging GOP rival Ted Cruz, "a nice guy."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: One guy that's doing pretty good with me in Iowa is Ted Cruz. He's a nice guy. I mean, everything I say he agrees with me. No matter what I say. I was going to do one really wild, but he agrees.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: So which is it, because Cruz implied that he killed Trump with kindness. What do Cruz's supporters think of that strategy? Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:13:25]
HARLOW: Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said long ago he would not lash out at his rival, Senator Ted Cruz unless Cruz struck first. Well, this week the "New York Times" released audio recording of a private fundraising dinner where Cruz said some things that Donald Trump was not exactly happy about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: I like and respect both Donald and Ben, but I think in both instances, and particularly you look at Paris, you look at San Bernardino, it's given a seriousness to this race. That people are looking for who is prepared to be commander in chief, because I think people run as who they are. I believe that gravity will bring both of those campaigns down. I think the lion's share of their supporters come to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Trump struck back on twitter yesterday saying "looks like Ted Cruz is getting ready to attack. I'm leading by so much he must. I hope so. He will fall like all others. Will be easy."
Ted Cruz then responding on twitter, downplaying the likelihood of a public rift writing, "the establishment only hopes Trump and me in a cage match. Sorry to disappoint - Donald Trump is terrific. #Dealwithit."
Joining me now, Kellyanne Conway. She runs a super pac that supports Ted Cruz called "Keep the Promise." You were at that dinner, I know you're disappointed the audio was leaked, but 'tis the day and age when this happens. People have phones.
(INAUDIBLE) former chief of staff to President Clinton, a major democratic power broker says he thinks Cruz will win the nomination because he's trying not to alienate Trump supporters. At the same time, what we heard right there is Cruz was questioning Donald Trump's judgment overall. That was in private. In public he's not doing it. Is he trying to have it both ways?
[16:15:00]
KELLYANNE CONWAY, PRESIDENT, PRO-CRUZ SUPERPAC: No, not really. In fact, he has said before, if you read the quote. He's talking about voters, how they'll make their judgment in this election, and they are saying that the urgency of national security now and terrorism means that he believes, Senator Cruz believes, and the data bears this out, that folks will look for people who have real experience.
If you're a United States senator, the irony is, you do have experience, he's a United States senator, stood up and had a huge rally where he invited Donald Trump back in September to shred the Iran nuclear deal, he's stood up in favor of Israel. He stood up against Putin, and if you go to his website you can find lots of national security and immigration measures for you to review, but what he is saying is voters will decide, do I really want an outsider, a true outsider, a complete outsider, no Washington experience whatsoever at such a perilous time, or will I choose somebody who's an outsider but with insider experience?
Remember, Poppy, earlier this year what was everybody saying, we need a governor, we need a governor, we need someone with executive experience. Most of them fell by the wayside and people actually are looking at somebody with true Washington experience.
HARLOW: Look, in some ways you could say Ted Cruz is establishment, not a fan of his, at the same time, if your guy doesn't win Iowa, he is leading in the Monmouth University poll right now, if he doesn't win, do we see those public swings come out at Trump if Trump wins Iowa?
CONWAY: No, I don't think that the decision to swing or not to swing rests on what contest Senator Cruz wins. We do see a great deal of strength in Iowa, mainly because he's the best organized with the most volunteers there, and that really counts.
For all the talk about how many ads can you run, how much can you zing your opponents and what crazy thing can anybody say today, it matters what you've got on the ground. If you have people organizing events, Senator Cruz shows up at rallies and forums, standing room only crowds, that's a show of strength, but you're right, he's surging in Iowa.
I think you'll see polling very soon that shows Senator Cruz doing very well in Iowa and it's not just Iowa. Next week he'll be in all across the south for the March 1st primaries, waffle house primaries, that's a good map for Senator Cruz.
HARLOW: He's still not leading in the national polls. I mean in the latest CNN national poll, there's a 20-point lead that Trump has over Cruz. So he has work to do. And as we said, though, he can be seen by some as an outsider, which may be to his benefit in this election cycle. The establishment not a huge fan to say the least. Would he ever consider an independent run as we've now heard Donald Trump bring up again and as Ben Carson just brought up yesterday?
CONWAY: Senator Cruz will have to speak for himself, Poppy, but I would highly doubt that. He actually is a loyal soldier, people look at him as a (INAUDIBLE) rouser. What he does, he's a rebel with a cause, he goes to Washington and says, "listen, folks, why don't we all just do what we said we'd do to get us here to Washington? We beat people in the primaries because we promised to do things that they would not promise. We won the Senate seats, why am I the only person standing in the Senate for 21 hours on my two feet to try to keep Obamacare from meeting its final funding?"
Every Republican senator in Washington, Poppy, as we speak, I guarantee ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare. One of them stood up to try to keep it from its final funding.
HARLOW: A rebel without a cause.
CONWAY: No, rebel with a cause. It's not just fighting for fighting's sake, it's a rebel with a cause. Senator Cruz said something from the beginning, I think is very important, even in the ethanol fight - these charges by Trump, in Iowa.
HARLOW: It's a big deal in Iowa.
CONWAY: Well, it's a big deal in Iowa but Senator Cruz is at least consistent, he's against subsidies of all form. You got people literally going to Iowa and saying "I'm against subsidies except here in Iowa with ethanol." So he runs as a consistent conservative and he has said from the beginning beware of campaign conservatives, watch what people have done over the years, not what they say to you on the campaign trail."
HARLOW: He has a political record whereas Trump doesn't. Thank you very much, Kelly. It's nice to have you on.
We'll be watching very closely. Just ahead, this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Folks back home immediately going to say, my god, look at that missile, can a group like ISIS get their hands on it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Wow, that is a scary thought. We'll show you a little known arm of the military with the type of access that no reporter has ever gotten before.
Our Jim Sciutto has it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Could ISIS get their hands on a rocket capable of bringing down an airliner? A top secret U.S. military intelligence agency is preparing for that very possibility.
CNN's Jim Sciutto got exclusive access to America's own rocket program with the Defense Intelligence Agency's Missile and Space Intelligence Center.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A passenger plane headed from the Netherlands to Malaysia suddenly falls from the sky. Malaysia Airlines flight MH 17 brought down near the Ukraine-Russia border by Russian-backed rebels.
Using this surface to air missile system known as the Buk. The ramifications of the strike far reaching and incredibly alarming because of who may be trying to obtain similar missiles now.
(on camera): Is there any concern today that terrorist groups would have their hands on something like this?.
MARK CLARK, DIRECTOR, DIA MISSILE & SPACE INTELLIGENCE CENTER: UNIDENTIFED MALE: I think it's probably safe to assume that at some level there are efforts under way.
SCIUTTO: Folks back home are going to say, my god, look at that missile, can a group like ISIS get their hands on it?
CLARK: It would not be impossible, but we would certainly say tht there's going to be some needed training involved.
SCIUTTO (voice-over): Mark Clark is the director of the Missile and Space Intelligence Center, a branch of the military's own intelligence operation, the Defense Intelligence Agency, or DIA, located far from the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan in Huntsville, Alabama, the home of America's own rocket program.
Filling the agency's grounds are a rogue's gallery of dangerous foreign weapons, some captures, some purchased, some acquired by means the DIA won't reveal.
(on camera): So to help train pilots and other war fighters who might come into contact with a weapons system like this in a combat situation, they keep these systems operational.
This is still a fully functioning scud missile.
(voice-over): Proliferation of missile technology preoccupies analysts here more than any other threat.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: We have greater concerns about the smaller missile threats and the likelihood of the proliferation of those.
SCIUTTO: Small only in size, but not in capability.
(on camera): OK, so this is the AS-7, one of the most common shoulder-fired missiles you'll see out in the world today.
[16:25:00]
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Yes, yes, well over a million man has produced, not only this one, but of other kinds and hundreds of thousands of others out there.
SCIUTTO (voice-over): Today shoulder-fired missiles have targeted some 60 civilian aircraft, and you can buy them on the black market for just a few thousand dollars.
(on camera): One of the main dangers of a missile like this is both speed but also ease, with someone like me with no experience can put it together and acquire a target in less than a minute.
Sights go up, power goes on, find your target in the air - and fire your missile. It's incredible.
(voice-over): Often the agency here comes into action after rather than before an attack. This is the first time a reporter has been allowed inside the center's technical analysis room.
(on camera): So it's a CSI for the combat space? RANDY JONES, CHIEF SCIENTIST, DIA MISSILE & SPACE INTELLIGENCE CENTER:
It's the CSI forensic sort of capability, similar to a crime scene investigation, sort of thing, a little bit of DNA here, and a fingerprint here, begins to piece together a pretty compelling story.
SCIUTTO (voice-over): Within minutes of MH 17's crash, analysts here sprang into action. Desperate to as quickly as possible determine the cause of the crash. As luck would have it, they had visitors that day who could help.
JONES: A group of representatives from across the intelligence community who do this just kind of analysis, we had them here in the building.
SCIUTTO (on camera): So all the experts happened to be here?
JONES: It just happened, timingwise, it worked out that way.
SCIUTTO (voice-over): As the outside world debated the cause, the DIA already had a very likely suspect.
JONES: Within an hour and a half, we were confident that it was a missile that shot it down, a surface-to-air missile that shot it down. We had a fair idea which one, although we still had homework to do.
SCIUTTO: Homework done at lightning speed. Within hours they were confident they had pinpointed the murder weapon and the perpetrators, telling President Obama that Russian-backed separatists had fired a Russian-made missile that sent nearly 300 people plunging to their deaths.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Jim Sciutto, fascinating, scary report. Thank you for that.
Coming up next, the growing ISIS threat.
Why there is now a significant number, a significant number of Americans who are worried that a terror attack could happen on U.S. soil again potentially soon. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:30:48] HARLOW: Whoever the next commander in chief is, it is critical they protect this country, so how exactly can the commander in chief keep us safe from the types of terror threats that are now so prevalent around the world?
On Tuesday night, that will be the big question. The focus of the final GOP debate of the year, it is right here on CNN.
But right now, the strategy for defeating ISIS militants and other threats falls to President Obama. He outlined that strategy in his Oval Office address this past Sunday night.
So what are the top threats and who has the answers to keep America safe? Michael Weiss is with me, co-author of "ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror," and Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, also a CNN military analyst.
Thank you both for being here. I want to look at this poll number that I think says a lot, right, this is -- this is the most recent "New York Times" poll and what it shows is last month 4 percent of Americans said terrorism was the most important problem. Now it is nearly one in five, 19 percent.
Also, take a look at this, this is a recent CBS/"New York Times" poll, 44 percent of Americans believe an attack is very likely to happen on U.S. soil in the next few months.
General, to you, how do you expect these numbers will shape, A, the answers at the debate and also U.S. strategy attacking ISIS?
LT. GENERAL MARK HERTLING (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's a great question, Poppy, and what I hope to see in the debate, frankly, is more than just ISIS in Syria and Iraq. I would hope some of the candidates were to expand this a little bit, and Michael I think will agree with me, that ISIS is attempting to generate support from various other terrorist groups taking on their brand and their message.
I think we place so much emphasis on ISIS in the media and in reports primarily because they have had some successes that that's why the American people are seeing it as the number one threat. But there are many other strategic challenges to the United States and I'm hoping that the candidates can expand their view outward a little bit and just get away from Syria and Iraq and maybe take on how other terrorist organizations might affect us in the future.
HARLOW: Michael, you were not given your extent of experience covering knowledge of ISIS, not happy with what the president laid out in his Oval Office address.
MICHAEL WEISS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right. I wasn't. I think that he has sort of underestimated this threat from the very beginning. I do not see -- the general and I disagree on this, this current strategy, I don't see how it can succeed, nor, frankly, does the Pentagon. "The Daily Beast" reported in addition to the defense secretary who backed up comments made by the chairman of the joints chief directly contradicting the president, ISIS is not contained, speaking to the geological expanse of their caliphate, a lot of the DOD officials say, look, we don't have the proper human intelligence in Syria and Iraq, and the only way to get that is with soldiers on the ground who can assess the damage on the air strikes perpetrated by the coalition and then also figure out where these guys are.
I mean, when you do a raid, special operations raid, you capture laptops, digit equipment, that leads you to other guys, you know. That's how we used to find al Qaeda in Iraq operatives and decimate their leadership in the mid-2000 period. Right now, we don't have any real -- I mean, with the exception of a few divisions in the Iraqi military and Kurds in northern Syria, we don't have a credible force on the ground in those two countries. HARLOW: Look, there's two things at play here. There's -- you know,
you have to also remember you're representing the American people and the stomach for going back into a ground war in the region.
WEISS: Sure.
HARLOW: Most people don't have that right now, although 53 percent of people in the latest CNN poll did say they think a ground war is necessary to take on ISIS.
General, to you, are we being too shortsighted in this --
HERTLING: We are not, Poppy, and I say --
HARLOW: -- what will be a protracted battle against ISIS?
HERTLING: Yes, Michael and I do disagree with this, because the conundrum is, there are many people that say, 53 percent of America says let's put more boots on the ground. Unfortunately, only 1 percent of America serves in the military at the time.
[16:35:02] At the same time, I think Michael will tell you that while we're saying put more boots on the ground, the emphasis and the objective of ISIS is to, in fact, get more boots on the ground. We're also in, truthfully, the first year of this campaign against ISIS and what everyone is calling a multi-year, even a generational fight.
And I would disagree with Michael, because I know this to be the fact, there is significant intelligence and it's growing based on some victories that have been achieved recently in both Iraq and Syria, which is feeding the beast, as it were, of getting more intelligence, which will create more raids, which will create more intelligence, and so on. But it isn't going to happen as quickly as the American people would like.
HARLOW: Michael, you've said in your testimony in front of Congress just a few days ago, look, some are pretending there is no ISIS state. What do you mean?
WEISS: Well, we like to, in our information warfare against this threat, we want to diminish them, we want to treat them as just a guerilla insurgency or a mafia terrorist organization, as brutal as they are. There is an administrative capacity to this organization, the way they make money through taxation, the levying of fines, surcharges, these kind of things. They operate state-like apparatuses.
Now, OK, it's not a state in the sense that the United States is going to recognize, the more the United States will parlay directly with them and legitimate them, but I think, you know, talking to people who have been under ISIS rule or, indeed, I recently interviewed a spy from ISIS who defected, the level of sophistication, organization, discipline, and -- you know, the real attribute that they bring to bear in their project is trade craft.
They are very good at intelligence and counterintelligence and spying on rival groups, that's how they take territory. That's how they hold territory.
HARLOW: It's been incredible to see just how quickly ISIS has progressed both on the wealth front and exactly what you just said, Michael.
I got to leave it there, gentlemen. Thank you very much.
General Hertling, Michael Weiss, appreciate it.
Coming up next, Donald Trump supporter, a Muslim writer, squaring off about Trump's proposal this week to temporarily ban all Muslims from coming in this country. We'll get their reaction to the voice of these people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want them here. Who knows what they are going to bring into this country, bombs, ISIS, what? They need to go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Worried about America. Worried about our safety. They are getting in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:41:04] HARLOW: Republican front-runner Donald Trump's proposed ban on letting Muslims into the United States does not appear so far to be affecting his huge lead over his Republican rivals.
A new CBS/New York Times" poll taken partially after those comments were made, we'll take a look at it there, shows Trump with a commanding 35 percent of support among likely Republican voters. That is 19 points ahead of his nearest rival, Texas Senator Ted Cruz.
Many Trump supporters say they completely agree with what he is proposing right now. They are fearful for what could happen to this country, they say.
Joining me now to discuss, Paula Johnson, co-chair of Women for Trump Coalition in New Hampshire, and Arun Kundnani, the author of "The Muslims Are Coming: Islamophobia, Extremism and the Domestic War on Terror".
Thank you both for being here. I appreciate it very much.
And, Paula, let me begin with you. You represent a lot of women in New Hampshire supporting Donald Trump. I'm interested in when he began resonating with you and what he keeps saying that keeps making you believe, yes, this would be the best commander in chief.
PAULA JOHNSON, CO-CHAIR, "WOMEN FOR TRUMP COALITION" IN NEW HAMPSHIRE: Well, personally, I'd like to say thank you for inviting me on your show today.
Well, I met Mr. Trump several years ago when he came to the Nashua Chamber of Commerce, and at that point in time, I just knew he would make a great president. And the reason I liked him so much is because he thinks what you want to say, although I'm very outspoken, people will tell you in Nashua, but I truly believe that he's the only one who has a plan for America and to make this country great again. And, you know, we really need a leader.
We have not had a leader in years, and it's about time we get a leader to lead this country and to make this country great again, and to bring back a lot of prosperity, which we have lost in eight years of Obama's administration.
HARLOW: Do you feel like, Paula, you've heard enough specifics from him on, for example, how he would defeat is, how he would prevent terrorist attacks in this country?
JOHNSON: Yes. I mean, he has a plan, but you know what, on strategy you don't let your enemies know what you're going to exactly do. And what he would do is have his generals and his inner cabinet have all the facts. The problem with what's going on now is our president gives out too much information or actually not enough information to make us feel safe in this country, and we all have a fear in this country what's going to happen if the terrorist really come in.
HARLOW: Let's listen to what some people that agree with you, Paula, had to say to our Randi Kaye this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a very prudent idea and I think he's done due diligence when he makes that statement. We have to protect our American citizens first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want them here. Who knows what they are going to bring into this country, bombs, ISIS, what, they need to go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody just needs to go in there and take control of this. I just think it's going rampant and I'm worried about America, worried about our safety. They are getting in. They need to be stopped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Arun, your thoughts on that, what we heard from Paula and also from all those voters in South Carolina.
ARUN KUNDNANI, AUTHOR, "THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING": Well, to speak to those voters, I think people have been lied to for more than a decade now, they've been told the main thing that we need to be scared about is crazy Muslims coming to kill us.
The statistics tell a very different story since 9/11. Around 40 people have been killed by Muslim terrorists in the United States. Around 400,000 have been killed in gun crime as a whole.
HARLOW: You got a lot of heat when you said that on the show with me earlier this week. Is that a fair comparison?
KUNDNANI: Those numbers come from the Center for Disease Control and New America foundation. I'll tweet out the exact sources after we finish. But, you know, the fact is, people are being lied to.
So, of course, when we interview them and say, who we should be scared of, people echo back what they've been told by people on television who aren't being honest with them.
[16:45:00] And, you know, Trump has exploited that. Trump is, essentially, a bully, and people think that maybe America needs a bully at the moment.
But the problem with Trump is, he's going to be a bully for the 1 percent, the other billionaires that he represents and ordinary people are going to find, you know, the 1 percent are going to continue to get richer and ordinary people are going to continue to get poorer. All the while, they'll be distracted by all this attention on Muslims.
HARLOW: Paula, I should say, what's your reaction to what Arun just said?
JOHNSON: I think he's totally wrong. You know, first of all, the terrorists. It's a different type of gunning down. Look at what just happened in San Bernardino, California. And they just found that this person, they were building pipe bombs and it was supposedly a hobby.
And the fact that Mr. Trump is a billionaire, but you know what? It's not that he's going to take it away from us, there's lots of billionaires out there. There's the establishment that we have to be worried about, and we do have to worry about terrorists coming into this country, because we have -- our guard has been down for so many years, look what happened to 9/11, look what happened to San Bernardino, look what's happening over in the Muslim countries. You know, they are coming after the Jews and the Christians because we don't believe in their religion, they'll behead us.
HARLOW: What do you mean -- let me jump in here, Paula, what do you mean they are coming after? Are you saying they in terms of Muslims as a group, or are you talking about a few extremists?
JOHNSON: Well, you know, let's talk about how many few extremists there are out there.
HARLOW: I'm wondering, what is your take?
JOHNSON: We have cells already in this country, and if we don't think that we don't have the cells in this country, think again. And because people look ordinary sometimes, like the people of San Bernardino, and look at what they did. And we're having them come over, Muslims come over, as -- coming over and they are coming over on visas, fiancee visas, we're not tracking anybody, and that's what the problem is.
And our system here, our immigration system, is so broken that we really need to get it fixed in order to track who's coming in. Back in 1980, Jimmy Carter put a ban on Iranians, excuse me, Iranians coming in here. Nobody made a big deal about that.
But we're making a big deal on the comment Mr. Trump says and American people are fearful.
HARLOW: Paula, this is a nation built of immigrants. We are all children of immigrants.
Arun, to you, your thoughts reacting to what is clearly palatable fear coming from Paula.
KUNDNANI: Well, you know, you mention San Bernardino. Look closely at what happened there. You had a situation where a terrorist was able to buy guns from their neighbor, right, so we have so many guns around that, you know, we have a situation like that. The gun lobby is making it easier for terrorists, right. So, Trump's statements today where he's defending the gun lobby are effectively material support for terrorism and enabling terrorists to have much easier access to guns.
HARLOW: A lot of folks will take issue to that.
(CROSSTALK)
KUNDNANI: The fact of the matter is, the trend in terrorism right now is people to use guns and there's so many guns around that it's actually, you know, much easier for them to do that as a result.
HARLOW: All right, we need to keep talking more about this. I'm out of time this hour, please come back.
JOHNSON: Please, I would be more than happy to come back and continue this conversation.
HARLOW: I so appreciate that. Thank you both very much.
Coming up, new details about the deadly brawl between two motorcycle clubs in Waco, Texas. You've seen the dramatic video from inside of that bar. Now, we have video from the parking lot. How did this all start and why? You'll see it right here next. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Phyllis and Darren Sudman lost their son Simon at just three months old to sudden infant death syndrome.
DARREN SUDMAN, FOUNDER, SIMON'S FUND: Our pediatrician and coroner said, go get your hearts checked because babies just don't die.
Phyllis was diagnosed with Long QT Syndrome, which is an arrhythmia. It causes the heart to beat irregularly.
GUPTA (on camera): Although genetic Long QT was never confirmed in Simon, the Mayo Clinic attributes about 10 percent to 15 percent of unexplained infant deaths to the syndrome, and also heart defects like it are likely causing deaths in later childhood as well.
PHYLLIS SUDMAN, FOUNDER, SIMON'S FUND: At the time, there were really no organizations out there that were checking kids' hearts. We don't want another family to go through what we've been through. GUPTA (voice-over): The Sudman's started Simon's Fund, which provides
free heart screening for kids.
D. SUDMAN: Over the past 10 years we've screened about 12,000 students. Approximately 1 percent discover some kind of heart condition.
GUPTA: Kids like Drew Harrington (ph).
DREW HARRINGTON: I went to a Simon's Fund screening and I found that I had a structural issue with my heart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The opportunity of Drew having a heart screening allowed us to prevent an incident that could have been life changing.
GUPTA: Stories like the Harringtons and over a hundred others are Simon's legacy.
P. SUDMAN: If we save one life, it's amazing.
[16:50:01] But to impact so many other lives because of Simon, who's three months old when he passed away, it's pretty amazing.
GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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HARLOW: All right. This just into CNN, we're now seeing a graphic and revealing new vantage point of the shootout between rival biker gangs earlier this year in Waco, Texas. Disturbing images could be key in this ongoing investigation.
Our Nick Valencia reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is a violent showdown. A newly obtained footage by CNN, video shows the moments that led to the bloody shootout between rival biker gangs in Waco, Texas, last May.
[16:55:00] The video picks up with an argument in the parking lot already in progress. You can see members from the Cossacks and Scimitars, two allied motorcycle clubs huddled left of the camera.
Just off camera, bikers from the Bandidos and Cossacks, two archrivals, argue after one is nearly hit by motorcycle, according to witnesses.
In police interviews, the rivals point the finger at each other as to who started the fight and then chaos. You don't have to hear the gunshots to feel the intensity erupt outside the Twin Peaks Restaurant. Some bikers duck for cover. In the background, you can see others run from the slaughter. In perhaps the most graphic portion of the surveillance tape, a man in
a red bandana sneaks up on another biker and appears to strike him in the throat. The two wrestle on the ground before a third biker joins in. The man in the red bandana is struck several times in the head while on the ground. He's stomped at least once. He lies motionless as the men he was fighting walk off screen.
In the foreground, more bikers run from what seems to be the epicenter of the violence. One man checks the blood dripping from his arm, another falls to the ground after appearing to be shot. The agony is all around.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Nick Valencia, thank you very much. First time we've seen that video.
Coming up next, live statement from President Obama ahead in the next hour about a potential landmark climate deal reached today in Paris. Protesters though demanding more. That's next.
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