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Last GOP Debate Of 2015 In Las Vegas On Tuesday; Donald Trump Still Leads In Most National Polls, But Ted Cruz Is Ahead In Iowa Polls; Divers Still Searching In Lake In San Bernardino. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired December 13, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I bet the others don't have a song.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. They have no music in their life. They immediate Maria Von Trapp to bring music to their lives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Team personalities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the dream team.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hercules!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harvard grads.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we win, I get to be CNN's new number-one black guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is I new BK in town.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back off that is mine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I get to be on CNN's new number-one black guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are hired for a looks and with part of brain- hood (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not as dumb as we look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:00:35] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: All right. Fun stuff. That's tonight.

We have so much more straight ahead right here in the NEWSROOM and it all starts right now.

All right. Hello again. Thanks for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. We are just now two days away from the last GOP primary debate of the year in Las Vegas. And now we know the lineup for the CNN Republican presidential primary debate. Let's go to Las Vegas. For more on that, CNN's John Berman is there

at the Venetian - John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Hey, Fred. Yes. We are just outside the lovely Venetian. In this building behind me a gorgeous theater where this debate will be Tuesday night. As you say, the last Republican primary debate of 2015. But perhaps more importantly, the first debate since the attacks in Paris, since the attacks in San Bernardino, and the focus Tuesday night will be national security. Which candidates make the case that he or she is the best one to keep America safe?

Also, this is Nevada. This is a key early voting state. So the people here, the ones who tourist betting in the casino, the ones who are actually live here, they will be watching this very closely as well. So much at stake here Tuesday night. And we just released the lineup for this debate. Who will be standing where and next to whom?

Donald Trump, he is the front-runner. By focus of that, he will be in center stage, but for the first time Ted Cruz will be just to his left. He is moving ever closer to the center. Ben Carson will be on Trump's right.

Let's go inside the Venetian theater right now where the debate stage is getting set up right now. Athena Jones is there - Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John. This is where it's all going to go down. We have been watching rehearsals going on all afternoon. It takes a lot to put on a production of this size.

But let's talk about who else is going to be on that stage on Tuesday night. I believe we have a graphic we can put up in order. We have John Kasich, Carly Fiorina, Marco Rubio, Ben Carson, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, and Chris Christie and Rand Paul. This is a return to the main prime time stage for Chris Christie. You will remember he had low poll numbers that kept him out of the debate on FOX business news.

Now, that second tier debate, one that's happening earlier at 6:00 p.m., that's going to be George Pataki, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, and Lindsey Graham. So a big production on Tuesday night. Seventeen cameras. There is going to be an invite-only audience of about 1,400 people filling this theater.

And as you mentioned, John, a lot is at stake here. This is the last opportunity these candidates have to try and make a strong impression on voters heading into the holiday season when a lot of them tune out. It could be one of the most important debates of the year. So we will be watching to see who hits whom on national security and who has a breakthrough performance that could give their candidate and their campaign new life - John.

BERMAN: Absolutely. The timing here is crucial.

Athena Jones inside the debate hall at the Venetian theater right behind me. Going to talk about all this now, how will the new lineup affect the

debate? Join me, CNN politics executive editor Mark Preston.

Mark, just to reiterate to viewers who is in and who is out, this is all determined by polls, this is determined by polls just so people know that, but let's talk about what you think the three most important things are in this debate. Number one, the front-runner, Donald Trump.

MARK PRESTON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, CNN POLITICS: The Donald Trump, the target Trump. What will happen with Donald Trump on this e debate stage? Now, he has been a target of all the candidates anyway because he has been the front-runner. However, we are getting now close to the Iowa caucus. We won't see just the likes of John Kasich attacking Donald Trump, we perhaps could see Ted Cruz go after Donald Trump.

BERMAN: You say target Trump. Every debate has been target Trump from the first question in the first Republican debate.

PRESTON: Correct. But we haven't seen Ted Cruz, who has been very careful not to attack Donald Trump in public, has done so privately. Marco Rubio has been getting critical of Donald Trump over the past few weeks specifically when it comes to foreign policy. Rand Paul would be on stage. Now, those two do not like each other. In fact, they hate each other. So we will see that guy (INAUDIBLE). But even Jeb Bush, Jeb Bush is going to have to do something and he is going to have to go after Donald Trump much like Donald Trump went after him this summer.

BERMAN: All right. That is one dynamic. A very, very new dynamic is the man standing to Donald Trump's left. That will be Texas senator Ted Cruz. Now all of a sudden the front-runner in Iowa. Not just the front-runner in Iowa. Man a lot of political insiders think, you know, is the prohibitive favorite to win in Iowa.

[15:05:14] PRESTON: Right. The rising Cruz right now. We have seen the "Des Moines Register" poll come out, John, as you know, just last night. So Ted Cruz saw a 21-point bump in that poll. He now is leading in Iowa. He has 31 percent of the vote.

Donald Trump is ten points behind him. Now, Donald Trump has been leading in Iowa up to this point. Ted Cruz needs to win Iowa if Ted Cruz wants to go on to win the nomination. He is not going to do well in New Hampshire, where there is not so conservatives but he wants a bump out of Iowa. That perhaps can catapult him to South Carolina he is hoping and from there on and on and on.

BERMAN: On that stage he'll have one eye looking at Donald Trump who I think will be on his right and the other eye looking at wherever Marco Rubio is standing because they have a thing going on too.

PRESTON: They certainly do. And that is really probably one of the most important dynamics we will see play out Tuesday night. We will all be watching for Trump. But if you look at who are the front runners right now for this Republican nomination, Marco Rubio is right up there. Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio have totally different visions of how to deal with the Middle East. They don't get along. They are colleagues in the Senate. Sure, we will see the fighting with Trump, but see if there's going to be any kind of disagreement between Rubio and Ted Cruz.

BERMAN: There was a real Marco Rubio moment after the last debate. Has it faded just a little bit since then?

PRESTON: You know, it's interesting, talking to his campaign, just months ago, they said, you know, we are going to play the slow game on this one. We don't need to get involved with Donald Trump. They never did until recently. We're just going to sit back. We are going to raise money. We are going to try to build ground games in the states and then we will catapult up.

If you watch what happened, that seemed to have worked. Now, of course there is the Trump phenomenon and there is the Ted Cruz element that is going on in Iowa. Chris Christie a little bit of a bump in New Hampshire but I still think Marco Rubio is really well positioned.

BERMAN: We are going to come back to that in a second because I want to know how long he can wait. But I want to talk about the other people on this stage, which could be the other big dynamic, the third big dynamic. This could be the last best chance for a few of these candidates to make a name for themselves and stay in this race.

PRESTON: Right. And that's the political Hail Mary. I mean, at this point, after this debate on December 15th, the campaign is going to go into a stasis mode. We are going to go into Christmas, we are going to New Year's, so there is going to be a lot of focus on political activities. There is going to be a focus on family, certainly in Iowa and New Hampshire and elsewhere. So whoever comes out of this debate strong will be able to carry that momentum into the first of the year. From then it's a spring into Iowa at that point.

What is Jeb Bush going do? He needs that moment, John. What is he going to do? Carly Fiorina, she had her moment in September, she has faded. Chris Christie is trying to get his train back on the track. Basically everybody on that stage right now need the political Hail Mary other than Cruz, Rubio, and Trump.

BERMAN: Jeb Bush, I mean, again, we have been saying this almost every debate. He needs a big performance. This has to be the time that Jeb does X. Is there any X left?

PRESTON: I don't know. I mean, you know, you and I talk about this. Does he have it in him to be the person who can go on the attack that can have that moment? That can get galvanizing support that he is tough and he is willing to take on the likes of Donald Trump? He has skilled so far to do it. Debates are not his forte. He is more of a policy wonk. He needs something on Tuesday night in order for his campaign to continue moving forward.

BERMAN: And Chris Christie rising in the polls in New Hampshire. You know, he has made a good showing in all these debates. How much more can he do? PRESTON: Well, a big question, maybe Chris Christie's best path

forward is the falling off of others if something were to happen to Marco Rubio, does that open that lane, that main stream Republican lane for someone like Chris Christie to get back in it and try to move forward specially if Jeb Bush is not able to do something.

BERMAN: Again, in closing, you know, we talk about which candidate will do what, which candidate will be the star. The main focus here, the subject matter may be the star. May be that national security, how to keep this country safe, plays a bigger role and the biggest role.

PRESTON: Right. And you know, and the candidates certainly in our debate in September, John, we are at Simi Valley, and we have seen that in subsequent debates, they talked about the economy, they talk about social issues, they talked about health care talk about and Social Security. Well, this debate on Tuesday night, we are going to talk about national security. Couldn't come at a better time in many ways because of the tragedy we've seen as you said, in California and over in Paris, and really this real threat of ISIS and how is it going to be contained.

BERMAN: Important, important discussion to be had Tuesday night.

Mark Preston, thank you so much.

Of course, do not miss the debate here on CNN Tuesday night. It all begins at 6:00 p.m. eastern time. That is the first debate. The main stage debate coverage begins at 8:30 p.m. CNN partnering with Salem radio network. You want to find out how you can listen to this debate on the radio, go to salemmedia.com.

We are going to be back in a moment with David Gergen here.

But first, Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks so much, John.

And a new report shows that this female San Bernardino shooter posted on social media that she wanted to carry out jihad. So, why was she still allowed to enter the United States? That's next.

Plus our coverage of the CNN Republican primary debate continues from Las Vegas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:13:20] WHITFIELD: All right, this just in after three days of searching in a murky lake in San Bernardino, the FBI is now saying it has recovered no items linked to the investigation of the terror attack. Remember, it had been recalled and reported that perhaps the two terrorists had been to that lake and may have dropped something in that lake and that led to divers then scouring the lake looking for any items. This just in now, no items of real relevance that we are understanding, according to the FBI.

So with me now is CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem.

So Juliette, when you here this, does it mean it was a complete waste of time or do you believe there may have been some relevant information gathered from going to that lake?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, no investigation like this is going to go about in a linear fashion. It's just -- what the FBI is doing now is following up on every potential lead. Some will lead down, you know, an open street that discloses all sorts of materials. Others will be a dead end. And it looks like the lake at least given what they knew, which is that they had vied there, that they might have thrown something into the water, it was worth the effort. But any large investigation like this I'm just simply not surprised we're going to hear about certain trails of investigation that come up short.

WHITFIELD: OK. And then, we are also learning a little bit more about the female shooter, that perhaps according to "The New York Times" reporting, that she had posted in social media that she wanted to commit jihad. And this reporting also indicating that immigration authorities, while they may have asked a host of questions, this is something a territory they don't necessarily go, tracking social media. So explain the process as best you know about whether, you know, and why immigration authorities don't usually track social media activity.

[15:15:21] KAYYEM: OK. So up until recently, that was certainly true. And part of this is just more traditional or conventional notion of immigration and those that come before those people who are going to ask them questions. So they ask about their identity, they ask for certain pieces of paper, where have they traveled to, passports, they make sure that the marriage was actually real and did not look to her sort of outside personality, right?

And the one you and I know so well because we have a different persona on line, right. Facebook, twitter, whatever it is. This has started to change by immigration officials. That they will now obviously start to look at what is someone putting forward as their personality in the social space. That's the equivalent of what employers are doing now.

WHITFIELD: When you say "now," you're saying in this present, you know, if they were to do a search right now, the standard may have been different than a couple years ago before Tashfeen Malik came into the U.S. to marry.

KAYYEM: That's exactly right. Now, we don't know right now what the FBI is willing to say they knew at the time. But certainly two years ago this was not part of protocol, to look at social media. That has started to change relatively recently. But whether it's part of every investigation, every immigrant that's before an immigration official, we do not know. And that is somewhat dis-concerning about this new news, how could we not look at Facebook or other places where someone might say I'm actually radicalized or part of a jihad movement?

WHITFIELD: Is it your feeling that while there may be changes that have resulted in the past two years, you're saying because of the evolution of how terrorists are carrying out their activities, that perhaps the changes, whether it be immigration, whether it be homeland security, FBI, all those changes are going to have to come even more readily? Years cannot pass, but it has to be a matter of days or weeks where changes have to take place?

KAYYEM: That is exactly right, Fredricka. And here is the challenge. When we actually look at the time frame of most of these terrorists, although not in the San Bernardino case, they are going online, becoming radicalized, planning their attacks, purchasing weapons, and then launching attacks in months. So we can't be, you know, analyzing this for two or three years about whether we should start to look at social media. We are -- our runway from a government position is very, very short given how short it is now for people to become radicalized. So you're exactly right that we just have to become more nimble because certainly those who would attack are much more nimble than we are right now.

WHITFIELD: All right. Juliette Kayyem, good to see you. Thanks so much.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, we head back to Las Vegas. Ted Cruz now next to Donald Trump for this CNN debate. That's the lineup. Their political bromance, well, it might be over. We discus who has the most to lose between at least the two of them. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:02] BERMAN: This is where it all happens, the Venetian Las Vegas, the site of the last Republican primary debate of 2015. It is only here on CNN. It is such an important moment in this campaign. The first debate after the attacks in Paris, the first debate since the attacks in San Bernardino, and national security will be the focus here on Tuesday.

As for the debate stage itself in the Venetian theater behind me, Donald Trump will be center stage on the main stage, but this time, Ted Cruz will be standing right next to him. This is the first time that Cruz has moved to the center shift based on the polling like this one from the "Des Moines Register" out this weekend that shows Ted Cruz moving into first place by a lot, a ten-point lead over Donald Trump in Iowa. Nationwide Donald Trump is still out front. A new poll from the NBC/"Wall Street Journal" show him with a five-point lead over Ted Cruz. That's the best that Trump has done in that poll so far in this race.

Joining me to talk about all of this, CNN senior political analyst David Gergen.

David, let's talk about Ted Cruz because he has the momentum heading into Tuesday night. So what do you expect to see from him and what questions not from the moderators per see but what do you expect to see from his opponents on the stage in terms of how they deal with Ted Cruz on Tuesday? DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, certainly, because

of his surge in Iowa, John, he will be the man to watch on Tuesday night. Can he maintain the momentum, can he increase it? And because so much of the focus is going to be on national security, he is going to get attacked mostly from his right as being too cautious, you know, too unwilling to use American force, not strong enough to really get the job done against ISIS. You'll be hearing that particularly from Marco Rubio.

What we don't know is how Trump will attack him. He may go after him on the other kinds of larger questions, are you really qualified, can you get along with anybody in Congress and cite his record of basically having developed very few friendships in the Senate, the short time he's been in the Senate.

BERMAN: There are qualitative policy differences when it comes to Ted Cruz and some of his opponents. Perhaps the NSA could come up. Marco Rubio and Chris Christie have talked about Ted Cruz on that. There is also how much to get involved in the Middle East. Ted Cruz not as much of an interventionist as some of his opponents, certainly, these issues could be a factor.

GERGEN: Absolutely. And these should be a factor in terms of -- these are very tough issues to resolve. There is a wise president among Republicans. President Obama does not have a strategy or victory in the Middle East. Well, if so, what's their strategy? What they are going -- how can they convince he country that, you know, the U.S. will be in better hands and safer hands and they can cut off the kind of threat so many people are anxious about today?

You know, so in the past, as you well know, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio have both distinguished themselves as smooth debaters. That they know their stuff. Ted Cruz is very smart, very crafty. He's run a very smart campaign in Iowa. But now that the spotlight is on him, his opponents say he's too arrogant. He doesn't, you know, he doesn't work well within the system. People are going to start pushing him on those issues a lot more because he has suddenly become, as I say, the man to watch.

[15:25:37] BERMAN: What about Donald Trump? What do you think he does differently if anything? You know, we talk about Cruz vaulting into first place. The truth is, Trump's numbers have actually inched up in Iowa, in the "Des Moines Register" poll. They have gone up in the NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" poll. He is doing pretty well. Nothing has slipped as far as he is concerned. So do you think he changes anything Tuesday night?

GERGEN: I think he is under more pressure on this one, John, than he has been the last few debates when he's had a clear lead not only in the national polls but he has had a clear lead in Iowa. For Trump's campaign, it is going to be -- if he were to lose Iowa, will that be a pin in his balloon, will the air start going out of his campaign. Traditionally, Iowa hasn't done that, of course. Huckabee and Santorum have been the last two people to win Iowa out of Republicans, and now in the undercard debate on Tuesday night. But even so, if Cruz were to beat him, it may change the dynamic. So

I think Trump needs a stronger debate performance than he has had in recent debates. He has been a little bit hang-package. Hen has got to be very presidential I think. And this could be it. This could be a challenge for him going forward. If I say who has the most to lose, Cruz has a lot to lose, Rubio has a lot to lose, but I think actually Donald Trump has the most to lose if he doesn't have a very good night.

BERMAN: It will be interesting to see how he responds to the pressure even if he feels like there is pressure.

David Gergen, great to have you with us. Thanks so much.

GERGEN: Take care.

BERMAN: Thanks so much, David.

There are some talks in the Republican party, what about a brokered convention? Will it be necessary? Will party leaders have to step in to make things right? Some of you have suggested Mitt Romney. Paul Ryan might have to have heart to heart conversations to try to get people out of this race. We will discuss that with a panel of our experts, our analysts, right here in Las Vegas where that stage, that beautiful stage inside the Venetian is.

Our coverage from the site of the last Republican debate of 2015 continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:51] WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. We are just two days away from the last GOP primary debate of the year in Las Vegas. And now we know the lineup for this CNN Republican presidential primary debate.

Let's go to Las Vegas where we find CNN's John Berman there poised at the Venetian. Oh, boy, there is so much ground to cover when talking about the preparedness of these candidates.

BERMAN: Yes. Oh boy, indeed. It all happens Tuesday night at the Venetian right behind me. The Republican primary debate, the very last one of 2015, and the lineup as you said, the lineup is out. And this is important. In the center of the stage would be Donald Trump. He has been there every debate so far, but Ted Cruz has now moved to center stage as well, right next to Donald Trump. Why? Because he is surging in the polls in Iowa, nationally as well.

Also next to Trump, Ben Carson, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, John Kasich, Chris Christie, Carly Fiorina, and Rand Paul. They will all be part of the primetime debate beginning at 8:30 p.m. At 6:00 p.m., there is an undercard debate, George Pataki, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum and Lindsey Graham will be part of that.

I want to talk about the new dynamic in this debate. Some new things we will see here on this stage at the Venetian behind me. I'm joined by CNN political commentators Van Jones and Ana Navarro. Ana, as we like to say, as a Republican strategist, a supporter of Jeb Bush, and a friend of Marco Rubio, a friend of so many others as well but we have to list Marco Rubio whether they like --.

ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Not a friend of a couple.

BERMAN: Thousands.

I would like to start not with Donald Trump here. We talk so much about Trump. But one of the most interesting dynamics on this debate stage Tuesday night might be between Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz. Not Trump includes, but Rubio includes. We got a little preview of that the last debate. But this time it is going to be bigger and I think perhaps more contentious. And we have a taste of it this morning. Let's listen to what Marco Rubio had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He talks tough on some of these issues, for example, he is going to carpet bomb ISIS, but the only budget he's ever voted for in his time in the Senate is a budge tote cut defense spending by more than Barack Obama proposes we cut it. He voted against the defense authorization act every year it came up. And that is the bill and I assume that if he voted against it, he would veto as president. Well, that's the bill that funds our troops. Even the iron dome for Israel.

So I guess my point is each time he has had to choose between strong national defense and some of the isolationist tendencies of American politics he seems to side with the isolationists. And this is an important issue to have a debate over. It is not personal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It is not personal, Ana, but he seems to side with the isolationists.

NAVARRO: I think Marco is quoting "the Godfather" there.

Look, you know, it's a very interesting dynamic. They are so evenly matched on paper. They are both 44 years old. They're both rookie senators, first-term senators. They are both, you know, the children, the sons of Cuban - of Cuban father, Marco Rubio has Cuban parents, both of his parents are Cuban. So, you know, they are so evenly matched on paper and yet they are so different in taking each other on.

I think it's going to be a very even matchup between the two of them. They are very good debaters. Marco perhaps quicker, perhaps more humorous. He is very witty and can be very quick on the draw. Ted Cruz has this flair for drama. I think it's the Harvard thing. Part of it was Harvard debate school the other Harvard theater club. He is very, very good. So I think you are going to see a lot of time spent in a clash between those two.

And I almost wonder if while, you know, the two of them are warring and going at each other there isn't room for somebody else to come in and say, boys, boys, boys, you know, calm down and maybe, you know, have a Chris Christie or a Jeb Bush or even a Donald Trump come in and make the generational argument, but in their favor.

BERMAN: The Princeton debate club. Let's get that out there for accuracy.

Van, you kept on raising your eyebrows with what Ana was saying right there.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think she's exactly right that they are evenly matched. When, it comes down to pure debating skills, though, Ted Cruz is really without peer in American politics. You got a guy who has been in front of the Supreme Court umpteen million times and won umpteen million and two. And so, this guy is very, very tough to debate. I do think that -- really on Rubio now.

We came out of that last debate, it was Rubio, Rubio, Rubio. And it was like Ted Cruz wasn't even there. Now you come back. It has flip, it's reversed. Rubio has got to figure out a way to assert himself that, listen, if you're trying to leave Trump to a safer water, you are leaving Ben Carson to safer water, I'm the safe guy. I'm the guy who knows how to keep you safe. Not this guy.

And if he can figure out a way to do it, he could pull it off. But I tell you what, to go head to head with Ted Cruz, who you know is going to be meticulously well prepared, who is going to have this place ready to go, it is dangerous for Rubio. He has to do it.

[15:35:54] NAVARRO: I disagree with you again. I think Ted Cruz was visible in the last debate. I remember that moment he had that was played over and over on TV at the CNBC debate where he took on and he want telling CNBC moderators basically, you know, every stupid question that he thought they asked and the audience laughed it um.

I think Ted Cruz knows right now that he is surging. One of the things he's got to worry about, is he peaking too early, and I think you are going to see a Ted Cruz come in prepared because he knows that the attacks are going to come in from all sides.

BERMAN: One of the hardest things to do in a political campaign is to be winning. You know, it is hard to know how to be winning if you haven't done it yet in this stage. It will be interesting to see how Ted Cruz does this. You guys talk a lot about the style. These guys are both stylistically very strong debaters. But there was, and you heard it in that sound bite, is that there is substantive difference between the two men.

And I'm curious, Ana, as a Republican, where do you think the party is or if there is unity on this argument they are having about how much to intervene, how much to hold back, because there's a difference right there. The NSA, there's a difference right there.

NAVARRO: You know, it's not -- I don't think it's a black and white argument. And I think both Marco and Ted Cruz are very able to make nuanced arguments and they know their weak spots are. And they are going to come prepared to defend themselves. You know, Marco knows that Ted Cruz has been coming after him on immigration. Ted Cruz knows Marco and Chris Christie and Jeb and a few others have been coming after him on the NSA issue. So they are going to come ready for war.

Now, the question, though, is who is going to convince? You know, there's two differences. There's a difference how Marco is approaching this in my eyes and how Ted Cruz is approaching this. I think Ted Cruz has made the argument I am Republican basis guy. I am conservative guy. I am your guy. I am the purist. Marco I think is trying to be friends with everybody. I think he is trying to really be the guy who can say I can bridge the gap and unite the Republican factions. We saw it today on TV where he went and made some comments about gay marriage.

Part of the issue Marco is facing is probably the biggest advocate in favor of same-sex marriage, a huge New York donor is backing him, which is a great gap for Marco but at the same time has tough costs for him in places like Iowa. You know, there's a lot of minutia going on there under the circumstances.

BERMAN: Ana Navarro, Van Jones, love to have you on to talk about all that minutia. Tuesday night very, very exciting, shaping up to be such an important debate. Do not miss it. It all begins 6:00 p.m. here, 8:30 p.m., the main stage debate. CNN, we want to tell you, is partnering with the Salem radio network. If you want to find out how to listen to the debate on your radio, go to salemmedia.com.

We will be right back from Las Vegas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:42:22] WHITFIELD: All right. This morning Republican front- runner Donald Trump went on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" and continued to defend his proposal to temporarily ban all Muslims from entering the U.S. But as Fareed Zakaria who is an American and who is Muslim spoke out on his show today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: This is the real danger of Trump's rhetoric. It forces people who want to assimilate, who see themselves as having multiple identities, into a single box. The effects of this rhetoric have already poisoned the atmosphere. Muslim-Americans are more fearful and will isolate themselves more. The broader community will know them less and trust them less. A downward spiral of segregation will set in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Joining me now is Sarah Cochran. She is the Virginia director of emerge USA, the leading U.S. Muslim civic and political, and engagement organization. She works with other groups to create legislation that promotes civic engagement. And also Sarah is a Muslim and Sarah is a Republican. So, Sarah, as you enter, you know, this debate that will unfold two

days from now, what is it you want to hear from these GOP candidates?

SARAH COCHRAN, VIRGINIA DIRECTOR, EMERGE USA: Well, thanks for inviting me.

I think what I want to hear is more reasonable speech. This isn't just about Donald Trump and some of the things that Carson and Cruz support, but it is about the Republican party itself and how it's worked in the last 25 to 30 years on alienating a lot of minority groups including Muslim-Americans.

WHITFIELD: So I wonder if further underscoring that this poll this week shows that most Americans oppose Trump's proposal to ban Muslims. However, Republicans are more likely to support the ban according to this polling. So how does that sit with you?

COCHRAN: It's actually an extension of what I just said which is that I think Republicans far long time have function on this motion of promoting a lot of ignorance about Islam and other cultures and in a globalizing world you can't really survive and accept other cultures and other ways of life if you're close to educating yourself about other religions and other people.

But I do think that, you know, I think this might be a good thing in the end. Who knows? I think Donald Trump might be separating the crazy people from the more reasonable people. So he might be a God send in some ways.

WHITFIELD: So then, why is it you associate yourself with the Republican Party give than you even admit here that there is work to be done?

COCHRAN: Well, I don't believe that leaving the Republican Party is necessarily the solution. I think that it's still got a very good number of reasonable people, smart people, and tolerant people. I just think the arrogance and the ignorance that's prevailed over the last few years is not going to help the party. And I refuse to leave just because of that. I think that we should stand our ground because there's a lot of, you know, congruency between Islamic values and Christian values or, you know, faith-based values of the Republican Party. And I don't think we should leave that to pander to different types of political beliefs stances that sort of cater to making Muslims feel comfortable. It's all about the issues and less about feeling accepted.

[15:45:41] WHITFIELD: So how much do you worry that Donald Trump's rhetoric lately as it pertains to this temporary ban of Muslims may have impacted the party as a whole?

COCHRAN: You know, I'm an optimist on that front. I really think that this might be able -- this whole thing that Donald Trump's brought up actually will sort of purge the party of the people that are intolerant. So I think in the long run it might actually be good. But it is really alarming. It is going to have short-term consequences of pushing some Americans away from the GOP. It's just an extension of what Muslims have been going through for the last few year where is they feel that there's a lack of genuineness, there is a lack of outreach, there is a lack of effort on the part of the Republican party. And I think we need to step that up as Republicans and actually do some genuine outreach based on education and knowing who Muslims really are.

WHITFIELD: Sarah Cochran, thanks for your time. Appreciate it. Nice talking to you.

COCHRAN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And of course we'll be right back, going to Las Vegas right after this. Just two days away from this big GOP debate right here live on CNN.

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[15:50:59] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The field of Republicans out there is so messed up I figured it makes you miss me, doesn't it? Dr. Ben Carson. I can barely hear him when he talks. I tell you something. That's not going to work when you have to go to China or az-er-ba-shan (ph) where you have to talk loudly so they will understand. Not to mention he's some kind of brain surgeon. And I got news for him. Running the country is not brain surgery.

Cruz and Rubio. Rubio and Cruz. Sounds like a Miami law firm. If you have been injured on the job, call Rubio and Cruz. These two guys, the sons of immigrants, hate immigrants. I for one like them Mexican people. They are my amigos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. That was Will Ferrel obviously his return at "Saturday Night Live" just a few hours ago. He was playing George W. Bush, an impression that made him famous. You heard him discussing all of the Republican candidates there. But we didn't play a lot of it right there. We really lit into Donald Trump which was very interesting.

Joining me now to discuss this, CNN senior media correspondent, host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" Brian Stelter.

Brian, it is actually more of a "Saturday Night Live" question and (INAUDIBLE) question here. But they had Donald Trump on to host. It almost seems like now, they are doing everything they can to go after him in ways they couldn't do when he was there.

BRIAN STELTER CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Almost like they can make the jokes they couldn't make when he was on the room. And certainly we know some of the comments, some of the writers on the show were not entirely comfortable having to write writing and work with Donald Trump that weekend. So now, they are maybe getting their revenge.

Will Ferrel was the best part of last night's episode. This has been a rolled it by the way. Think about their Bernie Sanders work, play by Larry David and they got Will Ferrel pretending to bring George W. Bush back into the race and that the big joke is we miss him, that people miss him, that he has to go run for president again because all the other candidates seem radical compared to the George W. Bush years.

If you think about (INAUDIBLE) 9/11, George W. Bush going to the Islamic center, signaling that this was not going to a war of terror against Muslims. Well, we have heard many comparisons to that in recent weeks with anti-Muslim rhetoric on the campaign trail. People actually wishing for return of George W. Bush.

BERMAN: "Saturday Night Live" is on very, very late at night. I have a hard time staying up. But that the difference right there. Look, this discussion, the fact that we are having it, also played into another phenomenon this election, which is just fascinating. I mean, Donald Trump bridges this celebrity world and this political world. It is really running in a way that we have never seen before.

STELTER: It is almost the perfect Las Vegas candidate, not just because one of his towers is down the street. He absolutely is. And we have heard this point made recently about his belief that he will drive voter turnout because people who would never care about politics are tuning in to the debates and he thinks will go the polls as the result. We will see that tested in a couple of months in Iowa. But we saw him tweeting Peggy Noonan this morning. We will show one of that tweets on screen. He said, an election between Hillary Clinton and myself, he assures he will win the general, will be the biggest voter turnout election in U.S. history. And the evidence he is citing to believe that is the ratings for debate, debate from the past who a few million viewers, four, five million viewers, now they are going to 20 to 25 million viewers. Thanks to more parts to him. He believes that's a preview of the actual voter turnout to look like.

BERMAN: Yes. Look. I mean, he is right. The debate rating are through the roof. And more people are watching them. And he is a large part of that. But we just don't know.

STELTER: It is easier to watch TV than it is to vote.

BERMAN: We don't know if that translates into turnout. We don't know if Donald Trump has an organization.

STELTER: But we see the rallies. We see the massive rallies. He has something nobody else does on the GOP side.

BERMAN: All right. Fascinating. Brian Stelter, great to have you here with us in Las Vegas.

STELTER: Absolutely.

BERMAN: All right. The next hour of NEWSROOM begins after a short break. But first before Tuesday's debate, we have a very important battle that we are very excited for on CNN. The next CNN quiz show airs tonight at 7:00. Let me tell you who to root for. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) [15:55:09] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this your game face?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Winners.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Winner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Famous American.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For reals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strategy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let the other people think that they have a chance at winning but then boom!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A team nobody expects to be good or win?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Boom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We either win or we sabotage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm the dumb one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure Berman has like won what, two times?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one wants John Berman to win again. No one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think our best chance of Berman is some sort of Tanya Harding situation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think robin, all about distraction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's got a wide birth of knowledge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we lose, it's sabotage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Absolutely. The only plausible explanation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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