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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Fighting ISIS Discussed; President Obama Speaks about War on Terror. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired December 14, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: ... if the voters say, we need to some that it's being done. It's one of the reasons we hear from voters when we say "What you find so appealing about Donald Trump when he proposed these things that are so shocking and being kind of productive by the national security infrastructure of Democrats and Republicans?"

[12:30:14] If the voters say, "We need to do something. We need to do something," and President Obama trying to convey that they are.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: There's something is what I get stuck on, because there's so much that goes on that is not visible, but when you launch an aircraft carrier, it's very visible. So unless you're doing something that has a lot of hummer and nails to it, is that what the public response to, if they hear something Trump asks about the pounding S out of ISIS? That means doing something as opposed to a very quite CIA secret of policy that you can't announce?

TAPPER: Right or special operation forces doing what they're doing in Syria and the like. Look, there are a lot of things going on. First of all whatever military action is going on and there is a lot of serious military action going on by some very brave service members men and women in Iraq and some in Syria. Is that it isn't visible. Like the Iraq war was. We're not seeing these images on our screen until they have been cleared by the Pentagon.

And secondly, President Obama is very conscious to the fact that he is somebody who was elected to end these wars, and he obviously has not ended the war in Afghanistan. And U.S. troops are now back in Iraq and Syria. And I think that there is something about him that is reluctant for political reasons to talk about a great deal about it. A, because the conflict is smaller and B, because it's not his nature to thump on his chest in a way that a lot of people in the American public wanted to hear when they see the carnage in San Bernardino or Paris, they want to know that the U.S. is doing something militarily. And there isn't a lot of attention given to it by the media, by the Pentagon, by President Obama.

BANFIELD: And one last quick question. And that is this. He's meeting at the Pentagon, but there a lot of other players involved, Homeland Security, and, you know, the national security. But again, unless we retool how we look at this war against a foe like ISIS as suppose to making the rubble bounce, bombing endless targets in Raqqah that are almost depleted of ISIS members anyway. Can you make a case for a different kind of war that will resonate with the public, the way that the folks in that building make the case?

TAPPER: Yeah. Well, first of all, the stuff that's going on in this country is not stuff that lands itself to APEC, right? I mean, its intelligence, its monitoring, its surveillance, it's not the kind of thing that is, that cameras are brought in to show, you know, here are some spies, here are some people spying on people here in the United States. That's not the kind of optics we're talk about.

Second of all, I think it's indisputable that President Obama is waging war against the ISIS in a way that is different than previous administrations would have waged the war. They are interviewed Brett McGurk who is the president's point man when it comes to the coalition against ISIS. They are very cognizant of preventing civilian casualties. They do not want civilian casualties, and they make no apologies about bending over backwards to not strike if there is a risk of civilian casualties.

Now, there are those who say, that's not the way you wage war. Civilian casualties are part of it, it's not what we want, but it is part of it and you have to take that risk. This is a war.

As you know, Ashleigh, and as you covered on your show many times, the people of Raqqa and elsewhere are in many ways hostages to ISIS. And most of the people in these cities that ISIS is controlling are not supporters of ISIS. They are victims of ISIS.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

TAPPER: But nonetheless, there is a desire for more to be done. President Obama trying to get on the tip of that spear, and saying, we are doing a lot.

BANFIELD: The visual bang-bang. I mean honestly it's what the French President announced after what happened in Paris. It's a -- it's usually the typical response.

TAPPER: And what was the criticism right after. If we knew of these targets, why are French bombing them, why didn't the U.S.? And by the way, there wasn't a good answer to that.

BANFIELD: Jake Tapper, always great to have you. Thank you so much.

TAPPER: Thank you.

BANFIELD: We appreciate, nice of you to come out in the nice breezy Las Vegas air.

TAPPER: It's warmer than it was yesterday.

BANFIELD: I saw you. You're a good man. Thanks Jake.

And as I said we're watching. If I can do, you can stick around because the president hasn't taken the mic yet, and we do want to continue to watch for him. I want to catch him just as soon as he begins his address.

We're all watching to see if there's going to be something palpably different with what he says after his briefing.

[12:34:30] So stick around and we will be back right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Welcome back everyone. Live at the Venetian in Las Vegas.

We're counting down the hours to the Republican debate. It's the last of the year before you head into the quiet holiday season which you can imagine there'll be a lot of contemplation between these candidates as to how they landed on the stage.

It all gets underway at 8:30 eastern time tomorrow. We're coming to you live in a very cold Las Vegas, the temperatures have been down to 29 degrees, expected to be tomorrow. But it doesn't mean that the hot air isn't ramping up.

And by the way there's a lot of talk going on the other coast as well. At the pentagon, we are awaiting the president. He is expected to speak at any moment, we've got the live podium up and ready. And just as soon as he takes that mic, it's not a perfect science folks. So we're waiting on his schedule.

But we really want to hear, what's going to come out of this area, high level meeting with the pentagon. It's billed as a basically a terrorism briefing, the American plan in the fight against ISIS. And the list of players is pretty darn remarkable.

Let me just take off a few of the very top. And this is by no means representative of the whole group. There's of course the president, the vice president, John Kerry, the secretary the of state coming via secure videoconference, there's Ashton Carter, the secretary of defense, there's the attorney general, there's the secretary of Homeland and Security. And I've only hit about, I think the top 1/5 of the players in this meeting, so clearly, some of the most important folks in crafting security policy in this country.

I want to bring in Jake Tapper again, just with the significance of this.

One of the names that stood out on the list is the secretary of the treasury Jacob Lew, not necessarily someone who would scream national security. But there is a key issue to his being called.

TAPPER: Yeah, the financing of ISIS one of the reasons that ISIS has been able to achieve everything it has is because they have a lot of money. Some of that is from oil, as the U.S. has begun to bomb the oil fields in Syria, but some of it also from selling that oil.

And the administration has only recently started to acknowledge the fact that the problem is the Turkish border, and fact that, there's a black market for oil, and they would like the Turks to do more to stop that oil from coming across. And it is important for the financing of the terrorist group to be cut off. Some of the ways that they get money are ways that, you know, Jacob Lew from the treasury department can't necessarily get his hands on which is ransom, hostages, theft on the ground. But...

[12:40:03] BANFIELD: Antiquities?

TAPPER: Yeah, exactly. But other part, well antiquities they can do something about because that that black market for antiquities is something that were -- that also ISIS gets funding from.

Let's look at another name here on this list which is Jeh Johnson, secretary of Homeland and Security and Loretta Lynch, big story out of The New York Times over the weekend about the fact that Tashfeen Malik, the female terrorist from San Bernardino despite going through three background checks for her fiance visa. Her -- she had this very hateful rhetoric on the social media posts according to The New York Times expressing support for the violent Islamic-Jihad and that was not caught in these three background checks.

BANFIELD: Not by error or omission though, it was because the policy didn't actually dictate that that was a critical area to research as I understand.

TAPPER: Yeah, I'm not sure exactly why -- whether they...

BANFIELD: By the way, why not?

TAPPER: Yeah, exactly -- why not check that and step down. Was there a directive to not look at it, was there a directive that this is the stuff you look, don't look at that, I don't know. We need more information, but obviously, a huge, huge red flag missed.

And that's one of the reasons by the way, when people say, "Why aren't we letting in the Syrian refugees?" that's one of the reason that there are people in the national security community who are saying, "Clearly, our vetting process does need to be improved look at Tashfeen Malik coming through on a fiance visa, and she had these pro violent jihad posts, we need to get a better hand on that."

BANFIELD: Yeah, social media is not knew, this is not something that crept up on a shockingly, it's certainly then.

Let me just quote for you the most recent CNN poll, I think it comes out from December 1st. So the numbers obviously reflect earlier news cycles. But I think it's really telling in terms of how people answer the question, you know, what's your confidence level in the president handling of terrorism?

38 percent of those polled approved, but 60 percent disapprove. I'd love it if you could put that in context, because we've been through a lot of cycles, I mean post 9/11, I'm sure those numbers were very, very different. We had a lull in between, we have the shoe bomber, we have the Time Square bomber, we have the underwear bomber, we had all sorts of other things. But ISIS has become sort of a -- that's a brisk breeze. ISIS has become this incredible juggernaut that seems to take the president even by storm even that J.V. comment.

But put that in perspective with sort of other president and other times.

TAPPER: Well look, first of all, the president is underwater when it come to his general approval rating. This is not unusual for the end of a presidency. People get sick of their presidents. And when they see that they are not able to fix all of the problems, they promise they could fix, and in fact there's a whole bunch of new problems, they get this effected. They start looking toward other ones.

BANFIELD: You know what, I'm going to do that for you because I have the benefit of the Beyonce wind, and you don't.

TAPPER: So the other thing is...

BANFIELD: OK.

TAPPER: Look, there are two things about President Obama when it comes to his aiming of terrorism. One as we just talked about, this is not a guy who pounds on his chest. I mean and there are a lot of terrorists who have been killed, we're seeing somebody there, probably give the two minute warning at the Pentagon.

There are a lot of terrorist at the Obama administration, who's responsible for killing.

And they don't go out there and talk about it. They don't go out and say "We killed this guy, we killed that guy or we killed this guy, we killed that guy." They could be, but they don't. So that's one.

And two, you have serious questions, legitimate questions about how seriously President Obama and his administration took ISIS.

It wasn't just a President Obama referred to ISIS as the J.V. team, but said he referred the ISIS as J.V. team after we now know the head of the defense intelligence agency, general -- Lieutenant General Michael Flynn issued a paper since declassified warning the administration about the potential rise of ISIS in 2012.

It wasn't just that, but he also then went on to say that ISIS is being contained. A, there's serious questions about whether or not it has actually been contained in Iraq and Syria. B, he made that comment about it being contained after ISIS apparently took down a Russian passenger yet, after they did suicide bombings in Beirut, Lebanon.

And then just hours before the horrific ISIS attacks in Paris and days before the ISIS-inspired at the very least attack in San Bernardino.

So there are questions that the American people have, and policy makers have about has he taken this threat seriously enough in the past. And I think that's part of the reason that it's not just Republicans looking askew at his handling of terrorism. And it's not just Independents. It's also obviously some Democrats as well.

BANFIELD: And as just wait, I don't want to walk on the president obviously, but I would like to get your thoughts about what we expect out of this today? I mean a lot of people said don't expect much, don't expect much, this is just being there. Is that true?

TAPPER: I think that's right. But again, I don't think that's unimportant. I think it's important for the president to convey what's being done, sharing that information, telling the American people, these are the authorities that have gone on, this is what the people.

[12:45:04] I mean look, there are American men and women who have put, I know some of them, and you probably do too, who have put themselves in harms way, who have risked their lives. In some cases sacrificed their lives for this mission to stop ISIS in Iraq and Syria, and the fact that they are there is something that the American people should be more cognizant of, not only because they should appreciate it, but also because they should know that something is being done.

Now, if you don't think it's enough, fine, debate it. We'll hear a lot about that tomorrow night on the debate stage, but something is being done and the idea that the President wants to convey. I think that's important.

BANFIELD: I'm on about 25-second delay with my monitor, so I'm just going to asked our team in the control room to alert me if the Present start to work out. I will not be able to see it, until his probably already speaking.

TAPPER: Right.

BANFIELD: So that in mind I can't police it as well as I'd like to normally. Some of the other players that are involve. When I show you this very exhaustive list, I wish I could hold this thing. It is two printed out pages of those who're involve in the meeting that preceding the live comments that you are about to hear the President give when he does that. This is standard operating procedure, this is kind of a normal national security meeting or a briefing as it is, being billed as ...

TAPPER: Yeah. I mean, this is clearly a little bit more than the standard national security meeting at the White House, but because it has does have military commanders and vice chairs as well as the chairs of the joint chief of staff, but this yeah. I mean, this is his team. All of his advisers, all of the people in charge of, you know, special operations command.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

TAPPER: ... central command, the chair of the joint chiefs, the vice chair of the joint chief, people from all the intelligence gathering agencies all there, and this is a big meeting, but it's not like unheard of that you would have a group this big.

BANFIELD: The next step I want to ask you really again, and I will interrupt if the President comes out, and that is that Loretta Lynch, the attorney general, obviously is a part of these meetings as well. And one of the issues I think a lot of people are starting to ask given that we suffered this terrible terrorist attack in San Bernardino, is do we need to start reassessing the way we collect the data? The way that we deal with the NSA? How the NSA is viewed. There was a real backlash against the collection of metadata.

And I'm wondering if the way people speak on the stage at the Republican debate could change the tenor of how people out in the public feel about the decisions that we have made. We'll talk about that after the President speaks, but ladies and gentlemen, this is the President of the United States at the Pentagon.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good morning, everybody. Today, the United States and our armed forces continue to lead the global coalition in our mission to destroy the terrorist group ISIL.

As I outlined in my speech to the nation last weekend, our strategy is moving forward with a great sense of urgency on four fronts: hunting down and taking out these terrorists; training and equipping Iraqi and Syrian forces to fight ISIL on the ground; stopping ISIL's operations by disrupting their recruiting, financing and propaganda; and finally, persistent diplomacy to end the Syrian civil war so that everyone can focus on destroying ISIL.

I just had a chance to meet with my National Security Council as part of our regular effort to review and constantly strengthen our efforts. And I want to thank Secretary Carter, Chairman Dunford, and Vice Chairman Selva for hosting us and for their leadership of our men and women in uniform.

We heard from General Austin, who is leading the military campaign in the region, as well as General Votel, whose special operations forces are playing a vital role in this fight.

I want to fight all of you a brief update on our progress against -- against the ISIL core in Syria and Iraq, because as we squeeze its heart, we'll make it harder for ISIL to pump its terror and propaganda to the rest of the world. This fall, even before the revolting attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, I ordered new actions to intensify our war against ISIL. These actions, including more firepower and special operations forces, are well underway.

This continues to be a difficult fight. As I said before, ISIL is dug in, including in urban areas and they hide behind civilians, using defenseless men, women and children as human shields. So even as we're relentless, we have to be smart, targeting ISIL surgically with precision.

At the same time, our partners on the ground are rooting ISIL out town by town, neighborhood by neighborhood, block by block. That is what this campaign is doing. We are hitting ISIL harder than ever. (inaudible) our fighters, bombers and drones, have been increasing the pace of their strikes; nearly 9,000 as of today. Last month, in November, we dropped more bombs on ISIL targets than any month since this campaign started.

We're also taking our ISIL leaders, commanders and killers one by one. Since this spring, we've removed Abu Sayyaf, one of their top leaders; Haji Mutaz, ISIL's second in command;

[12:50:06] Junaid Hussain, a top online recruiter; Mohammed Emwazi, who brutally murdered Americans and others; and in recent weeks, finance chief Abu Saleh; senior extortionist Abu Maryam; and weapons trafficker Abu Rahman al-Tunisi. The list goes on. We're going after ISIL from their stronghold right down -- right in downtown Raqqah, to Libya, where we took out Abu Nabil, the ISIL leader there. The point is, ISIL leaders cannot hide and our next message to them is simple: You are next.

Every day, we destroy as well more of ISIL's forces -- their fighting positions, bunkers, and staging areas; their heavy weapons, bomb- making factories, compounds and training camps. In many places, ISIL has lost its freedom of maneuver because they know if they mass their forces, we will wipe them out. In fact, since this summer, ISIL has not had a single successful major offensive operation on the ground in either Syria or Iraq.

In recent weeks, we've unleashed a new wave of strikes on their lifeline, on their oil infrastructure, destroying hundreds of their tanker trucks, wells and refineries. And we're going to keep on hammering those. ISIL also continues to lose territory in Iraq. ISIL had already lost across Kirkuk province and at Tikrit; more recently, ISIL lost at Sinjar, losing a strategic highway. ISIL lost at Baiji with its oil refinery. We saw during raid -- the daring raid supported by our special forces which rescued dozens of prisoners from ISIL and which Master Sergeant Joshua Wheeler made the ultimate sacrifice.

So far, ISIL has lost 40 percent of the areas it once controlled in Iraq, and it will lose more. Iraqi forces are now fighting their way deeper into Ramadi, they are working to encircle Fallujah and cut off ISIL's supply routes into Mosul. Again, these are urban areas where ISIL is entrenched.

Our partners on the ground face a tough fight ahead. And we are going to continue to back them up with the support that they need to ultimately clear ISIL from Iraq.

ISIL also continues to lose territory in Syria. We continue to step up our air support and supplies to local forces. Syrian-Kurds, Arabs, Christians and Turkmen, and they are having success. After routing ISIL at Kobani, and Tal Abyad, they have pushed ISIL back from almost across the entire border region with Turkey, and we are working with Turkey to seal the rest.

ISIL has lost thousands of square miles of territory it once controlled in Syria, and it will lose more. The special forces that I ordered to Syria have begun supporting the local forces they pushed south, cut off supply lines, and tightened the squeeze on Raqqah. Meanwhile, more people are seeing ISIL for the thugs, and the thieves, and the killers that they are. We have seen instances of ISIL fighters defecting, others who have tried to escape have been executed.

And ISIL's reign of brutality and extortion continues to repel local populations and help fuel the refugee crisis.

"So many people are migrating," said one Syrian refugee. "ISIL," she said, "will end up all alone." All this said, we recognize that progress needs to keep coming faster. No one knows that than the countless Syrians and Iraqis living every day under ISIL's terror, as well as the families in San Bernardino and Paris and else where who are grieving the loss of their loved ones. Just as the United States is doing more in this fight, just as our allies, France, Germany and the United Kingdom, Australia and Italy are doing more, so must others. And that is why I have asked Secretary Carter to go to the Middle East -- he'll depart right after this press briefing -- to work with our coalition partners on securing more military contributions to this fight.

On the diplomatic front, Secretary Kerry will be in Russia tomorrow, as we continue to work, as part of the Vienna process, to end the Syrian civil war.

Meanwhile, here at home, the Department of Homeland Security is updating its alert system to help the American people stay vigilant and safe. And as always, our extraordinary men and women in uniform continue to put their lives on the line, in this campaign and around the world to keep the rest of us safe.

This holiday season, many of our troops are once again far from their families, and as your commander-in-chief, on behalf of the American people, we want to say thank you. We are grateful and we are proud for everything that you do.

Because of you, the America that we know, and love and cherish is leading the world in this fight. Because of you, I am confident that we are going to prevail.

Thank you very much, everybody.

[12:55:08] BANFIELD: The President is wrapping up a brief news conference and a brief briefing of that meeting, and Jake I was listening for anything new and alarming.

TAPPER: Yeah.

BANFIELD: And I didn't hear anything really new other than hitting harder than ever.

TAPPER: Right.

BANFIELD: And that Secretary Carter is send to Middle East that may have been planned.

TAPPER: Although as you pointed out, President Obama confirmed something that we had heard, but the U.S. I don't believe had not confirmed previously which is that Jihadi John, Mohammed Emwazi had been killed.

BANFIELD: Yeah. But we have been waiting for the U.S. government to give a full analyst of that and say it absolutely happened and he did announce it.

TAPPER: Yeah, the strike was November 12th, and there were rumors that he had been killed, Jihadi John, the figure from the U.K who appeared in...

BANFIELD: The face of the beheadings.

TAPPER: Yeah, who in those propaganda videos and President Obama confirming, that also President Obama again making a case that ISIS is on its heels saying that land that they had taken, they no longer have, 40 percent of the land in fact that they controlled they no longer control.

BANFIELD: And saying much more to come as well. Jake Tapper, thank you so much for wading through that for me, I appreciate it.

And thank you, everybody, it's been great to have you here with us on this chilly Vegas day. My colleague Brianna Keilar sitting in for Wolf. She comes up right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:15] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there Brianna Keilar in for Wolf Blitzer.