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GOP Presidential Candidates Preparing for Last Republican Debate of The Year; Jurors in Baltimore for Officer William Porter Case Are Deadlocked. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 15, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:30:18] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. And we are back live here in Las Vegas. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with here on this Tuesday afternoon.

We are officially just about two and a half hours, here he is, live pictures of New Jersey governor Chris Christie checking out the stage seeing where he will be standing in a couple of hours here on the big debate stage, the final Republican debate of the year. (INAUDIBLE) toward the stage. We have seen a couple of them in the past hour and a half. So stay tuned there's a few more to roll through to see who will potentially land that nomination and eventually if everything serves them correctly, land that spot in the oval office.

Tonight is the final debate this year. Center stage yet again will be Republican front-runner Donald Trump but close on his heels and even in some of the polls the senator from Texas, Ted Cruz. Florida senator, Marco Rubio, hoping to building on his strong performances of debates past.

So with me now I have senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny who is here at the Venetian in Las Vegas inside.

Jeff, we have been watching back and forth. You know, you turn around one second and another candidate is rolling through. Tell me how they are doing, how are they feeling, what are they up to?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, that is why I'm coming to you from a parking garage here. It feels a bit of a heath row here. But Governor Chris Christie just arrived moments ago, as you saw. And you could see him on the stage.

And look, I think that one thing I'm watching for tonight is Chris Christie's comeback. I mean, he is on the main stage of this debate hall after being in the undercard debate in the last one. And look. The (INAUDIBLE) of this election, the issues of this election are aligning for Chris Christie. He is very strong on national security, very strong in the post 9/11 era, and so much has changed across the world since the last debate a little over a month ago. The Paris attacks, the shooting in San Bernardino.

So I think that Chris Christie has a moment tonight. But you know, I think Ted Cruz more than anyone, he had a smile on his face when he walked into the debate hall, an hour or so ago. He was more than happy to talk. And he said, look, I know all the arrows are pointed at me but I think that's a good thing. That's a sign that I'm doing well.

So this is the moment Ted Cruz has been waiting for. He's a great debater. He was a debater in college, of course, but he's going to need those skills tonight because everyone is going to be going after him, not just Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: Jeff, the unofficial welcoming party in the garage of the Venetian hotel. We'll check back in with you, Jeff, as we see more candidates arrive. Thank you so much.

You know, when the Republican candidates gather here tonight it will be their first debate since the terror attacks both in Paris and in San Bernardino, which is certainly not insignificant. National security will be front and center as these candidates take the main stage and our Wolf Blitzer will be asking pretty pointed questions, very important questions that the Americans need to know the answers to.

CNN's senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson is here with me as is CNN political editor David Chalian.

So, on your super bowl which is this day, the final debate of the year, I know this is exciting for all of us, I wanted to run through just to remind everyone how far we have come as far as these debates are concern and we will roll for sound bite.

So first up, let me put this up. This is the moment for the first CNN Republican debate between Trump and Rand Paul. Remember this on the nuclear code.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm very concerned about having him in charge of the nuclear weapons because I think his response, his visceral response to attack people on their appearance, short, tall, fat, ugly, my goodness, that happened in junior high. Are we not way above that and would we not all be worried to have someone like that in charge of the nuclear arsenal?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Trump.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I never attacked him on this look, and believe me there's plenty of subject matter right there, that I can tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: David, do you remember that?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I do remember that. I also remember that debate started with Donald Trump sort of being like grandpa, what are you even doing here? So I don't think they have a very friendly relationship. But listen, that notion of having your finger on the nuclear codes,

this isn't just Rand Paul talking about that. Ted Cruz you will remember last week was caught behind closed doors at a fund-raiser in New York saying the very thing about Ben Carson and Donald Trump and whether or not they have the temperament and judgment when it comes to having your finger on the nuclear button. So listen. That is a core question. This is not some shiny object or a sidebar issue that is - I mean, this is what being commander in-chief is all about.

BALDWIN: Yes, yes.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: And Jeb Bush also is making this same argument, this idea of serious times call for serious people. It's obviously directed at Donald Trump. John Kasich too has been saying he's a person who can land the plane, right, take on the serious job that is the presidency. So I think this is a line of attack we'll probably see tonight if not directly at Trump, certainly a subtext which is trying to convince Americans that they can sit there.

[15:35:04] CHALIAN: I think Rand Paul will be that feisty.

BALDWIN: OK. I remember that out of the gate in that debate. OK, the next one, Ted Cruz poll numbers there in deep rising. He is threatening Trump in Iowa specifically. This is one of Ted Cruz's big moments on the debate stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not a cage match. And you look at the questions, Donald Trump, are you a comic book villain? Ben Carson, can you do math? John Kasich, will you insult two people over here? Marco Rubio, why don't you resign? Jeb Bush, why have your numbers fallen? How about talking about the substantive issues people care about?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Down the line, huge applause. That was the CNBC debate. How will Ted Cruz handle all of this this evening?

HENDERSON: I thought what was most clever about this was he managed to attack the media but also highlight --

BALDWIN: They like to do that.

HENDERSON: But he was able to highlight weaknesses of every one of those candidates as he was going down the line. You know, Wolf Blitzer should probably watch out tonight, as for Dana and Hugh Hewitt as well because I'm sure there will be this kind of going after the media because it's just such a red meat thing to do and it's always a moment for the folks who try to do it.

CHALIAN: It's unavoidable because it is so successful for them. And it is a crowd pleasing thing to bash the media. And I think it's just our job to continue to remind them that these are important questions on the biggest and most important topics and voters need to hear from them.

BALDWIN: Yes. Chris Christie, we just saw him a little bit ago. He is back on the main stage. He has been doing pretty well in New Hampshire. The last CNN debate he credited George W. Bush for doing the right thing after the 9/11 terror attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You do not need to go through subtle diplomacy at that point. That can be handled later on. What you need is a strong American leader who will take the steps that are necessary to protect our nation. That's what I would do as commander in chief in this circumstance and that's what President George W. Bush did in 2001.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Man, if we're talking national security tonight, this is a man who has a lot of experience to draw on.

CHALIAN: I mean, this is exactly what Jeff Zeleny was just talking about. What has been a fascinating thing to watch is that if you go back to the summer when nobody was paying attention to Chris Christie and he was doing his constant town halls in New Hampshire all year long, he was talking about these issues. And now the issue landscape has shifted in his direction so he didn't have to sort of catch up to this. This has been a big part of his message all along. That's a very lucky, I say politically lucky thing for a candidate. Obviously a terrible thing that we're so focused on national security. But fortuitous politically for him because it's consistent with what he's been saying all along.

HENDERSON: I think that's right. And with Chris Christie, he was a prosecutor, he has sort of that command of the stage. He also is very good at directing his sort of sentiments to the camera, almost talking to the jury out there. He often looks directly into the camera and directs people, you know, directs his attention to the viewers who are watching. So I think he's a very skilled debater and I would watch for him tonight to really try to make a splash and say he deserves to be on this big stage too.

BALDWIN: Before I tee up this final clip, I just want to remind all the viewers, we are looking now at Carly Fiorina. She is the next candidate to get the tour of the stage. She again will be on the main stage. We all talk so much about her a couple of debates past and having that really strong performance, the Fiorina moment. So Carly Fiorina there standing behind the podium where she will be taking folks on this evening.

Final note, this is - because we talked quite a bit ahead of tonight about Marco Rubio. This is an exchange between Marco Rubio and Rand Paul. This was last month's FOX Business debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: How is it conservative to add a trillion dollar expenditure for the federal government that you're not paying for? How is it conservative to add a trillion dollars in military expenditures? You cannot be a conservative if you're going to keep promoting new programs that you're not going to pay for.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: May I respond?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quickly, senator.

RUBIO: We can't even have an economy if we're not safe. There are radical jihadists in the Middle East beheading people and crucifying Christians, a radical cleric in Iran trying to get a nuclear weapon. I know that Rand is a committed isolationist; I'm not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So just quickly -- sorry, forgive me. Just quickly, to your point Rand Paul on the attack again, but here is Marco Rubio. This is again a topic in his wheel house.

HENDERSON: That's right. It's in his wheelhouse and it's that debate again about what is conservatism in terms or foreign policy. Is it closer to isolationism? Is it closer to the sort of neoconservative ideology that Marco Rubio and Chris Christie are on in terms of a spectrum there, McCain and Lindsey Graham as well? So I think that's going to be a big debate ti find conservative on them who really is conservative.

CHALIAN: You've just got to remember, though, that was before San Bernardino and before Paris. Voters are in a different place now. Rand Paul is going to have to be careful about calibrating that because I don't know if shifting the attention to the budget or what's conservative about that will be as effective of a message, even though that's something his supporters want to hear, in light of where we are.

[15:40:04] BALDWIN: OK, David Chalian, Nia-Malika Henderson, thank you so much.

And I'm just getting word in my ear there is breaking news out of Baltimore as we have been watching this first officer, the first of six to be on trial accused in relation to the murder of Freddie Gray from back in the spring. We will take you live to Baltimore after this quick break.

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[15:43:33] BALDWIN: All right, we now officially have some breaking news here in the case involving the first of six police officers charged in relation to the death of Freddie Gray there in Baltimore. This is as it pertains to this first officer. This is William Porter, one of the three African-American officers charged in the case. Summoned by the van's driver to check on Freddie Gray during stops on the way to the police station.

Here's the news. The jurors say they are deadlocked. These jurors in Baltimore are dead locked. The judge says to keep deliberating and the judge apparently sent the jury back in and told them to continue hashing this out, to continue deliberating.

I have with me now on the phone Sunny Hostin. She is one of our CNN legal analysts who has also been on the ground in Baltimore.

And so, Sunny, when you hear in this first case deadlocked, what's your take on that?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (on the phone): You know, I think this makes a lot of sense. I think these jurors are taking their jobs very seriously but they also know that their decision could be unpopular. They know that there was unrest just in April. And so, because this case is being tried so close in time, I suspect that that could be wearing on this jury.

Remember, this jury wasn't sequestered. The jury has -- is racially mixed. Four black women, three black men, three white women, two white men. And the charges, quite frankly, Brooke, are difficult charges to grapple with. We are talking about involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, reckless endangerment, misconduct in office. Those are very difficult charges, I think, to prove for this prosecution. And because of the climate in Baltimore, I suspect that this is going to be a very hard case for them to decide.

Now, Judge Williams did the right thing, though, by telling them go back in, deliberate again. That is typically called an Allen charge, which is a charge that judges read to the jury explaining to them that they need to go back, try again, open up their minds to other points of views.

But the bottom line is if after this charge, this Allen charge, they go back in and still can't reach a unanimous verdict, and the verdict does have to be unanimous, my guess is that this could result in this deadlocked jury, a hung jury.

[15:46:11] BALDWIN: Sunny, stay with me. I want to keep your legal -- a hung jury. I want to keep your voice here because I'm also curious how that would affect the following trials involving these additional officers.

But Jean Casarez, I understand I have you in front of a camera. You have just left this courtroom and are just outside this courthouse for me in Baltimore. Can you please bring me up to speed and give me more with regard to what you're hearing with regard to this deadlocked jury?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's just what you're saying. They issued a note at 3:17. And you never know what that note is going to say. The note said that they are deadlocked, period. So not on one count or two counts. Remember, there are four counts altogether here, four charges. They are deadlocked. So the judge has given them that charge to say go back in there and try as you might. But they are stone faced. My colleague, Miguel Marquez, is in the courtroom and he told me they are stone faced, they're dead serious. They do not look like they're really getting along. They all had their jackets on. So we don't know if that means that it's cold in there or if they're ready to just call it a day. But the judge has told them, as he must do under the law, to keep going, keep trying to get that verdict.

BALDWIN: Jean, I thought one of the reasons why this was the case to go forward beginning with Officer Porter is because this was perceived as some sort of slam dunk case?

CASAREZ: Extremely important case for the prosecutor because it is William Porter, this defendant, that actually spoke to Freddie Gray. He spoke to Freddie Gray asking him do you need a medic. And Freddie Gray said yes. So that right there and the six officers, not one of them calling a medic at that point really forms the basis of the prosecutor's case right here. And they want to use that statement in all the other trials.

So if ultimately there would be that hung jury where they don't have a conviction, their choice is to try it again, which I would think they would, or dismiss all the charges and that's really not what this prosecution has stood for.

BALDWIN: Jean, stay with me.

And, Sunny, let me bring you back in. And we don't know. If, you know, that the judge has said as you've been describing the Allen charge to go back in to continue deliberating, what if the eventuality is a hung jury? How then -- whether they decide to try it or not again, how would this affect the five other cases involving the five other police officers being tried in the death of Freddie Gray?

HOSTIN: Well, I think, Brooke, there's no question that it would affect those other cases. This defense team is, again, working together. They are sharing information even though there are different defense attorneys, I consider it a defense team. I have spoken to several of the members of the defense team and they are watching this case very, very closely.

This was never a slam dunk case for the prosecution. I think the prosecution knows that. This was seen, though, interestingly enough, as the defendant that was one of the least culpable, one of the defendants that was going to perhaps testify against some of the other defendants, which is why they wanted to try this case first. This is a game-changer if there is a hung jury. I suspect they will try to try the case again, bring it in front of another jury again. But this would be a game-changer because the defense for some time has argued for a change of venue. They don't want to try this case in Baltimore. They think, again, that it's -- you know, it's too close in time to what happened. They argued that they cannot get a fair trial for so I suspect, if there's a hung jury, we may not see this case again in Baltimore city. We may see it perhaps somewhere in one of the Maryland counties.

So this would be really, I think, a blow to the prosecution, especially since they thought they were going to get a conviction, they would be able to use a lot of this evidence against defendant, that they believe are more culpable.

[15:50:29] BALDWIN: All right. Sunny Hostin, thank you for jumping on the phone for the breaking news. Jean Casarez, I'll let you go, hop back into the courtroom there in Baltimore.

Again, if you are just joining us, the jury here in the case involving the first officer William Porter is officially deadlocked. The judge said, go back in, keep deliberating, this is the first of six officers charged in relation to the death of Freddie Gray from the past spring. We'll stay on that.

But meantime, again, I am live here in Vegas. We are mere hours away from the final Republican presidential debate here at Venetian hotel. And sitting to my left, who you're about to hear from, you though him from "lifestyles of the rich and famous," Mr. Robin Leach himself, have been living in Vegas for the last 15 years. We are going to chat with him about all thing Vegas and his old friend, Donald Trump.

Stay with me.

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[15:54:01] BALDWIN: All right. And we are back here live in Las Vegas. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

Of course, tonight is the big night. You are looking at Ohio governor John Kasich getting a tour inside. But outside the Venetian hotel with me, you know him, TV host, entertainment journalist, the one and only Robin Leach, Las Vegas resident, venerable connoisseur of the "lifestyles of the rich and famous".

It is so nice to meet you in person.

ROBIN LEACH, TV HOST: Lovely to meet you, too.

BALDWIN: Thanks for having us in your city.

LEACH: We welcome you, even though this is the biggest theater than cirque du Soleil.

BALDWIN: My goodness. This is the show in town.

LEACH: This is the show. You know, I said earlier that you know Donald Trump could take a headline gig here.

BALDWIN: Well, it sounds like he might be doing that.

LEACH: Packed the hotel ballroom last night. More than some of the shows on the strip.

BALDWIN: You have known Donald Trump, what, since late '70s?

LEACH: Yes.

BALDWIN: How did you first meet?

LEACH: The night that he waltzed into a restaurant called (INAUDIBLE), first avenue, with the striking blond who turned out to be Evana (ph), the ski champion from Czechoslovakia.

[15:55:03] BALDWIN: You were at the wedding.

LEACH: I went to the wedding, yes. In fact, I have been to many weddings, most of them Donald's.

BALDWIN: You laugh, but I mean, what is he -- are you surprised? I mean, this is a man you have known for decades, when you look at it latest national poll, and I know you're British and not voting, but when you look at latest poll, he's at 41 percent. That is huge.

LEACH: Yes.

BALDWIN: Are you surprised?

LEACH: No.

BALDWIN: Why?

LEACH: Because he's saying all of the things that America wishes they could really say. The first time when they made his announcement to run in this campaign, it was like the script of peter finch in "Network." This was an angry man who didn't care about political correctness and was able to say what everybody else was thinking. The first time that's happened in politics in ages. You know, no more fluff, no more nonsense. You just get the hard core facts.

BALDWIN: A lot of people who would agree with you.

LEACH: He's the guy who has the guts to say it.

BALDWIN: What is he like when the cameras aren't on?

LEACH: Well, somewhat similar. I mean, he is -- when you look at Donald, he is what you get. I mean, I have been involved with him in -- on various television shows and public events in Atlantic City. He is a very ballistic individual, by nature, that's his business, you know, he's a builder. If he says he can build 100-story building, he will build it. And so, that attitude is what's carrying him through this momentum. He will -- he will win this thing.

LEACH: You're confident?

LEACH: He will win this thing. Whether or not in the political process in the convention he's (INAUDIBLE), is another story.

BALDWIN: Robin Leach. Thanks for having us. Nice to meet you.

LEACH: Welcome to Vegas.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Breaking news, breaking news, top Democrat on the intelligence committee Adam Schiff says the threats against schools in New York and Los Angeles are believed to be a hoax. Again, let me repeat, this is so extraordinarily important, the threats that shut down the nation's second largest school district in Los Angeles appear to be a hoax.

Much more on this after a short break.

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