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Reviewing the Republican Debate; First Fed Rate Hike; Winners and Losers of Last Night's Debate. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 16, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:03] ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So a pretty heated exchange here. The issue is that, of course, Marco Rubio is under fire certainly and is -- leaves himself vulnerable on the issue of immigration because he was part of the gang of eight in the Senate back in 2013 that led that failed effort to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill. Ted Cruz sees an opening there. He calls that -- what that -- what that effort would have done a path to legalization and amnesty. Rubio, you saw him hit back saying that Cruz, at one point, supported legal status.

But I've got to tell you, Carol, during this -- during this campaign, Cruz has really taken pains to avoid answering the question about just what he would do with the 11 million or 12 million undocumented immigrants. But between last night on the debate and after the debate, Cruz basically took a stand saying that he -- suggesting that he'd be open to deporting those 11 million or 12 million undocumented immigrants. So interesting battle here over the issue of amnesty, something that's very important to a lot of Republican voters.

Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So, wait a minute, he -- he's in -- he's now saying that he may want to deport all 11 million undocumented immigrants that are in the United States now. And during last night's debate, he also gave credence to Donald Trump's wall and he joked he'd make Donald Trump pay for it, was sort of a nice moment. But he -- he seems to be adopting Donald Trump's ideas.

JONES: Well, it's interesting. Last night we thought that we'd see a fight between the two of them. They didn't seem to want to get into it. And we know all along that Cruz has been very calculated about this. The reason he doesn't want to criticize Donald Trump, hesitates to do so, is because he's hoping to appeal to the -- to the voters that are supporting Donald Trump. We heard him say in that private fundraiser, that audio recording that was released just a few days before the debate, that he believes that Trump's campaigns, along with Ben Carson's campaigns, will fade and that he will be the beneficiary of those supporters. They'll move to his campaign.

And so it's perhaps not surprising to see him not only not criticizing Trump, but sort of leaning in his direction on some of the policy proposals from Donald Trump. You heard him last night say, you know, he'd build a wall, too, and he'd have Trump pay for it. That was one of the lighter moments. But it's a clear, calculated effort by Cruz to appeal to Trump's supporters.

Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Athena Jones reporting live from Vegas. Thank you.

Seems everyone was watching CNN's debate, including the British prime minister. David Cameron stood up in parliament today to malign Donald Trump's plan to ban Muslims from the United States. He called Trump's idea "divisive, stupid and wrong." Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It is right that we exclude people when they are going to radicalize or encourage extremism. I happen to disagree with (INAUDIBLE) Donald Trump. I think his remarks are divisive, stupid and wrong. And I think if he came to visit our country, I think it would unite us all against him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: For his part, Donald Trump stuck by his plan at the debate, even when all of the other candidates on stage united against it. Jeb Bush called Trump a fear monger who would be a chaotic president. But Trump never wavered, sure of his status. And later, Trump told CNN he's a Republican and will run as a Republican.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGH HEWITT, CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO HOST: Mr. Trump, my listeners tell me again and again they're worried that Hillary Clinton will win the White House because you run as an independent. Are you ready to reassure republicans tonight that you will run as a Republican and abide by the decision of the Republicans?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I really am. I'll be honest, I really am. I mean people have been putting me at the front (ph). I really am.

HEWITT: I hear applause.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now to talk about all of this, Star Parker, founder and president for the Center for Urban Renewal and Education, and Charmaine Yoest, a former Reagan adviser.

Welcome to both of you.

CHARMAINE YOEST, FORMER REAGAN ADVISER: Good to be here, Carol.

STAR PARKER, FOUNDER & PRES., CENTER FOR URBAN RENEWAL AND EDUCATION: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you both here. Star, before I get to my questions, I must disclose that ben Carson

serves on your advisory board for your nonprofit. So now that that's out of the way, I will pose the first question to you. Donald Trump says he will not run as an independent. You heard him. Do you believe him?

PARKER: I do believe him. I believe that Donald Trump understands that the American voters, in particular the Republicans, are very serious about this candidacy. They are very serious about what's at stake for our country. And they want him to be serious if he's going to go the long run, to go into Iowa, to go into New Hampshire, to go into South Carolina and to Super Tuesday.

He's throwing out a lot of bombs. When you talk about this new question on the table about -- around Muslims, all Arabs aren't Muslims, all Muslims aren't Arabs. So we need to understand deeper, what do you have in mind if you're going to be the president? So, yes, I think that he -- Donald Trump is beginning to take this much more seriously. And it is assuring to Republican voters, I would believe, that he will not then bolt and go independent on them after all of this mess that he's creating.

COSTELLO: Well, Charmaine, Donald Trump threw a lot of ideas out, but I'm not sure how he would accomplish it. For example, about the Internet. He said he wanted to shut down parts of the Internet to ISIS, but he didn't explain how exactly he would accomplish that or what that might mean.

[09:35:00] YOEST: That's really interesting that you bring up that moment, Carol, because I think that that was a really important moment in the debate, even though it's not getting as much attention. The real Achilles heel for Donald Trump is the fact that he's coming across as strong and certain, and in these uncertain times, the American people, that's what they want is someone who is assertive and can't -- and doesn't vacillate at all.

But the way that you beat someone like that and the way that you start to see them slip is if they become a laughing stock and if they say things that come across as dumb and stupid and start being spread around the Internet as jifs (ph) and different jokes. And so the more that Donald Trump last night talked about our Internet and said things that sounded really a little bit shaky and laugh-inducing, that's what's the trouble for Donald Trump.

COSTELLO: Interesting you say that because I'm going to ask this question of you, Star. The most contentious exchange came between Donald Trump and Jeb Bush over some of what Bush would say the more ridiculous things that Trump says and his, quote, "chaotic leadership style." Let's listen to that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP,: We need strength. We don't have it. When Jeb comes out and he talks about the border -- and I saw it and I was witness to it and so was everyone else and I was standing there, they come across as an act of love. He's saying the same thing right now with radical Islam. And we can't have that in our country. It just won't work. We need strength.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN DEBATE MODERATOR: Governor Bush?

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald, you're not going to be able to insult your way to the presidency. That's not going to happen. And I do have the strength. Leadership -- leadership is not -- leadership is not about attacking people and disparaging people. Leadership is about creating a serious strategy to deal with the threat of our time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Star, who won that exchange?

PARKER: I believe that Bush did. Jeb Bush actually won. You know, Ted Cruz had an interesting line last night that border security is national security. So we absolutely must do something about the border. And there are two vying (ph) opinions about -- from in -- within the Republican Party about how to handle these issues. Jeb Bush has a handle on national security. Perhaps on border security, that's where we need some more discussion. How are we going to protect our interests but yet be the diverse society that we are? And to be able to build ourselves in the -- on the international stage as we take on ISIS and other challenges around the world. Jeb Bush was incredible last night, which is probably reassuring to his supporters.

COSTELLO: Whoa.

YOEST: You know, can I -- can I jump in on that point, Carol?

COSTELLO: Sure.

YOEST: Because I think it's really interesting that you played that clip because even though this morning Jeb Bush is not getting as much attention at the others on the stage and people are saying that this is nearing the end for him, that single clip won the night on FaceBook. It was the single most shared thing going around the Internet. That's really significant because, at the end of the day, you have what really endures from the debates is what people are seeing on social media, what they're talking about. And the fact that Jeb Bush was able to land that punch on Donald Trump really makes a difference.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Thanks so much to both of you, Star Parker, Charmaine Yoest.

YOEST: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump might be topping the polls, but did he win the debate last night?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:41:37] COSTELLO: Keeping an eye on Wall Street this morning. The Dow is up triple digits now ahead of the Federal Reserve's anticipated rate hike. It would be the first rate hike in nearly ten years. The immediate affect is any loan you will apply for will probably cost you more. But why am I saying this? Christine Romans knows this stuff better than I do.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Ten years is a long time, Carol. And this is a big moment and here's why. This marks the moment that the Fed acknowledges the American economy is back to normal. It's been ten years of emergency treatment of the American economy. Raising interest rates means the job market and the overall economy are strong enough to withstand it. The Fed chief, Janet Yellen, likely to make that announcement later today.

Here's the Federal Funds Rate. Look at that, Carol, free to borrow money for the past few years. Free almost.

COSTELLO: It's been great, Christine.

ROMANS: It's been great if you are by -- getting a mortgage, getting a car loan. Not great if you had money in the bank and you wanted savings off of it. Higher interest rates will affect car loans. New car loans will likely go up next year. You know, the interest you pay. Mortgages likely go up but not a lot and credit cards. If you have credit card debt, that variable rate credit card debt is going to get more expensive. So be careful of the credit card debt.

Let me show you mortgage rates. They've been down, down, down, down, down. Anybody who bought a home or refinanced, you know this, you probably refinanced three times. Right now the 30-year fixed rate, 3.95 percent. That's so low. It's going to go up a little bit. I still think it's an OK time to buy a house.

COSTELLO: What do you mean, it's going to go up like to, what, 4 percent?

ROMANS: It will go up past 4 percent, probably in the beginning of the year. Look, it's going to start to rise next year, but I think it's still a good time to buy or refinance. These are still very low rates. So super important if you are on the fence about a refi right now, please do it. If you're on the fence about buying a home and you have the cash to do it, you have job security, do it. We'll be watching the market reaction, of course, because there's been distress in the junk bond market. The oil market has crashed. There's a lot of big things happening in the world that some are saying now might not be the time to raise interest rates but after ten years it's probably going to happen.

COSTELLO: It's going to be an exciting day for you, Christine Romans.

ROMANS: It will, 2:00 Eastern Time.

COSTELLO: You're such a nerd.

Thanks, Christine.

ROMANS: I'll take that as a compliment. COSTELLO: It is a compliment.

Public school classes in Los Angeles resume as normal today after a scare abruptly shut them down yesterday. And now there's a lot of second guessing about that decision after the threat was later determined to be a hoax. The e-mail threat mentioned explosive, assault weapons and handguns. L.A.'s police chief said the recent attacks in nearby San Bernardino justified erring on the side of caution. A similar threat, though, was made in New York City, but the schools here remained open.

When it comes to the winners and losers of last night's Republican debate, many pundits agree, Donald Trump failed to deliver a stinging performance. Instead, the GOP frontrunner found himself on the defensive. Case in point, when conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt shut down Trump for ranting about CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I watched the first debate. And the first long number of questions were, Mr. Trump said this, Mr. Trump said that, Mr. Trump. These poor guys -- but I thought it was very unfair that virtually the entire early portion of the debate was Trump this, Trump that. In order to get ratings, I guess. In order to get ratings, I guess.

HEWITT: But, Mr. Trump, it's not CNN -- it -- Mr. Trump, I was on CNN last night watching --

TRUMP: I just think it's very unfair -- excuse me. I think it's very unprofessional.

HEWITT: But -- but it wasn't -- it wasn't CNN. It was me. I watched you last night for 16 minutes. It's not CNN.

TRUMP: Well, what -- I watched it. I think it's very unprofessional.

HEWITT: It's not CNN.

TRUMP: All right.

HEWITT: It's America's watching you.

TRUMP: OK, fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:45:02] COSTELLO: Moments later, rival Jeb Bush jumped in, taking direct aim at Trump for not being tough enough to deal with the political process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: If you think this is tough and you're not being treated fairly --

TRUMP: No, this isn't tough and these -- I wish -- (CROSSTALK)

BUSH: Imagine what it's going to be like dealing with Putin, or dealing with president Xi, or dealing with the Islamic terrorism that exists.

TRUMP: Oh, yes.

BUSH: This is a tough business to run for president.

TRUMP: Oh, I know. You're a tough guy, Jeb. I know.

BUSH: And it's -- and we need to have a leader that is...

TRUMP: You're tough.

BUSH: You're never going to be president of the United States...

TRUMP: You're real tough.

BUSH: ... by insulting your ways to the presidency.

TRUMP: Well, let's see, I'm at 42 and you're at 3.

BUSH: It doesn't matter.

TRUMP: So, so far I'm doing better.

BUSH: Doesn't matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: One of the more enjoyable exchanges.

With me now to talk about that and more, CNN political analyst and editor-in-chief of "The Daily Beast," John Avlon. I'm also joined by former Obama

campaign foreign policy advisor, David Tafuri. He's also a former UN and State Department official. Thanks to both of your for being here.

So, John, we're talking about winners and losers. And, you know, everybody is going to say who supports Donald Trump that Donald Trump won the debate. Did he?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, if you live in a Trump centric universe, the Donald never does anything less than the best. You know, I think a reality check on this debate would be that Donald Trump had a rough debate.

He came under fire from numerous places. He always conducts a fact- free debate. And the polls will probably be pretty kind to him despite, I think, his bullying tactics are losing their effectiveness. It's really obvious he's just operating in a school yard and he's conned enough folks to stay at the top of the polls, but it's not going to be perpetual. COSTELLO: Well, I think maybe what that exchange showed, David, is

that when you interrupt Donald Trump and you give it back to him, he gets flustered and it devolves into this, I know you are but what am I?

DAVID TAFURI, FORMER OBAMA CAMPHAIN FOREIGN POLICY ADVISOR: I think that's true. You know, his discussion about foreign policy last night was afflicted with the same problem it's had in previous debates, which is it's just sound bites. There's no details and there's no plan. Now, perhaps it was even worse last night because two of his ideas would actually be helpful to ISIS.

For instance, he talked about cutting off the Internet in the places where ISIS holds territory. That would be in ISIS' interest. In fact, ISIS is trying to cut off the Internet in the same places because those people that it controls don't have access to information. It's not like they're getting regular newspapers anymore. They're getting ISIS newspapers. Their one access to information from the outside is from the Internet. So, he's supporting a policy that would actually help ISIS.

Second, he talked about banning Muslims from America. Again, that's what ISIS wants. ISIS want to cast this as a war between the West and Islam. And if we help him help ISIS do that by discriminating against Muslims, we're playing into ISIS' strategy which is -- which allows ISIS to broadcast to the world that they're fighting on behalf of all Muslims, rather than just the marginal small group of radical Muslims who actually support them and actually subscribe to their ideology.

COSTELLO: And John, the other candidates on the stage united against Donald Trump's plan to ban Muslims from coming into the United States. Marco Rubio seemed to have a detailed plan on how to defeat ISIS. I kind of thought he won the debate. How about you?

AVLON: I thought Rubio actually, you know, he was solid but he kind of did not shine under fire, I thought. He definitely had a lot incoming, he was on defensive. He had some good push backs to Cruz and co. And obviously, you know, really rehearsed a response to his immigration plan. But I mean, you know, we're all dealing on variations of the same theme. I mean, Ted Cruz had proposed cutting -- allowing only Christian refugees in. You know, so too much of this debate stage had been dominated and bullied by Trump's, sort of bluster.

But you saw a couple people, Chris Christie, I thought a strong debate. Rand Paul had a strong debate, really stepping out, and Rubio trying to cut out his own lane but he didn't have the kind of defining pushback that the would-be front-runner really would need to stand out from the pack.

COSTELLO: Interesting. I want to touch on Ben Carson for just a minute, because he seemed more animated this time around, right, David? But in explaining some of his policy as it applies to defeating ISIS, he was still rather confusing.

TAFURI: Yes, he's still very light on details. He hasn't completely studied up on the issue. He did have a few ideas that made sense. For instance, he talked about arming the Kurds. The Kurds are one of the few groups that is actually on the ground fighting ISIS every day.

I'm actually talking to you from Iraq. I've been working with the Kurds today and earlier this week. And they're engaged in an epic battle with ISIS and they're not getting all the support that they need from the U.S. government. And he said specifically we need to support the Kurds directly rather than move weapons and equipment through Baghdad.

[09:50:03] He's right on that policy, but he was very light on detail in most of the other ways.

COSTELLO: Wait a minute, David. You know I'm a reporter, I can't resist. You're working with the Kurds?

TAFURI: Yes, I work with the Kurds and groups here to support what they're trying to do. And especially with respect to their fight against ISIS.

COSTELLO: How are you working with them? How are you helping them?

TAFURI: I'm a lawyer, and I'm an advisor to the Kurds.

COSTELLO: That's -- don't you think that's fascinating, John Avlon?

AVLON: Yes, it's completely fascinating. I mean, but the Kurds are really taking the fight to ISIS. So, it's a complicated relationship, but they're probably the best we've got in the region, so good luck.

COSTELLO: Yes, good luck. But I guess I bring that up, John, because the Obama administration doesn't think it's the best idea to fully arm the Kurds. They think it's not a great idea.

AVLON: Well, I mean, you know, the problem is you've got a series of folks, you know, the negotiation becomes the enemy of my enemy within this region. But, you know, the reality is that, you know, beyond the bluster, candidates are having a hard time really offering a detailed policy plan that differs going forward substantially from what the Obama administration is trying to do.

And there is definitely, you know, all the hits on President Obama last night to show how tough the candidates are, and some criticism for not anticipating the rise of ISIS or intervening into Syria earlier, fine, those are legitimate. But one of the reasons why as substantive as this debate was, we see that so much of the GOP field right now has been kind of cowed into moving away from serious what would I do if I was president plans and all about framing, all about bluster because they've seen Donald Trump's thin script work. And that just dumbs down the entire presidential debate.

COSTELLO: All right, I have to leave it there. John Avlon, David Tafuri, thanks to both of you. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:55] COSTELLO: Checking some top stories at 55 minutes past.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO (voice-over): The secretary of defense is in Iraq right now on an unannounced visit. Ashton Carter's mission is to find the quickest path to defeat ISIS. He's expected to meet with U.S. military and Iraqi leaders about deploying American special forces to fight the terror group.

On Capitol Hill, Congress expected to pass another temporary spending bill to avoid a government shutdown at midnight tonight. The House will then vote by Friday on a separate trillion dollar bill that would fund the government through next September.

In Nashville, the FAA is investigating why a Southwest Airlines flight from Houston rolled off the tarmac at Nashville and got stuck in the grass. No one was hurt, but eight people suffered bumps and bruises. A Southwest spokesman said the Boeing 737's nose gear collapsed.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO (on camera): The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)