Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Hung Jury in Freddie Gray case; 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 16, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Now, though, I imagine the pressure is on, depending on how the city reacts to this mistrial to retry this case. Can you do it pretty quickly, immediately?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it could in theory be brought to trial very quickly.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right.

CALLAN: A couple of months, you know. You have to get transcripts of all of the testimony - well, it is going to take a couple of months because you have to get the transcripts of all of the testimony prepared and certified. There will be motions to exclude certain evidence. So believe me, two months would be a super-fast time period.

What's more likely to happen is that you'll see them move on to another defendant in the case and go to trial in that case and then maybe come back to this later, if the prosecutor can put together a case without porter's testimony. If this is the linchpin of these other prosecutions, they're in big trouble, and a lot of lawyers who looked at this case initially said, very shaky case, they moved too quickly, it's very hard to make out a case against the cop. And one of the reasons is that, with the blue wall of silence, the amount of proof that's necessary is a lot of times more than in a normal case. So prosecutors usually move slowly and deliberately when a cop is going to be charged. Here, this cop was charged very quickly.

BALDWIN: Danny Cevallos, we're looking and if we can put it up full, the makeup of this jury. Can you just remind us who these jurors are?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: These are jurors from the community. So that was always an "x" factor in this case. We can always talk about the makeup according to male/female, African- American/Caucasian. But I think many trial lawyers would caution not to put too much stock in that kind of astrology, in that kind of guessing, reading tea leaves and figuring out how someone might vote based on their race or their gender.

I think almost every trial lawyer has been surprised at the end of a case who a holdout was or whether or not they've had a particular jury pegged for one position and they came out on the total opposite position. I'm sure all the attorneys with us today have had a personal experience like that. I know I have.

But with that in mind, the one thing they all shared in common is that they were from the community. So the question arises, how much did the events much the past few months seep into their decision? Even if they are -- everyone knows the reality as jurors, they're not supposed to talk about the case or read anything about it. But by mere osmosis, it's simply impossible to prevent all information from getting to jurors one way or the other.

So one has to wonder. I'm sure the prosecutors thought they would benefit from bringing this case quickly because the riots and all of the unrest would be fresh in people's mind. But at the same time, to echo what Paul and Sunny have been saying, this may be a casualty of having brought a case too quickly for the prosecution.

BALDWIN: Which is precisely what you were saying.

HOSTIN: Yes. And I said that on the day that the state's attorney Marilyn Mosby made this announcement. What struck me when she made the announcement, Brooke, was that she said things like, I hear your calls for justice. Well, guess what? Prosecutors aren't supposed to do that. What she said on the steps during the announcement.

The bottom line is, you are seeking the truth. You are seeking justice. But you are not supposed to beholden to public opinion. And I feel that was an early misstep. I feel it was a misstep again to bring this case so very quickly, given the jury probably knowing if they acquitted that that could be a very unpopular decision because I think what we are hearing from -- at least I'm hearing from people that now the community feels here is another cop not being held accountable for the death of a young African-American man. So people are now feeling that the justice system in and of itself is flawed, that the prosecutors are in bed with the police officers.

BALDWIN: On the flip side, though, on the other side, some would say this is not a cut and dried case. Let me just jump in. I was just passed this information. The judge in this case has officially told the attorneys to report back to court tomorrow morning to set a new trial date. So there you go. Defense attorney declined to comment, saying he was subject to a court gag order. Par for the course.

CALLAN: Yes. This is exactly how it happens.

HOSTIN: Well, the prosecution must have said, we're going to bring this case again.

BALDWIN: Already.

CALLAN: What I'd like to know, too, is we'll hear this probably by tomorrow, what was the split in the jury deliberations?

BALDWIN: Will we get all that information?

CALLAN: We may very well. If, you know, the jurors can speak to the press if they wish to and tell about the vote. And what was there a racial split? Did white jurors vote one way? Did African-Americans jurors vote the other way? The defendant was African-American. They will be looking at all of these factors when deciding how to retry the case. BALDWIN: Let me go pivot back to Baltimore to Miguel Marquez who is

there.

Miguel, tell me who you have with you.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I have Tessa Hill-Aston with me here. If there's anybody in Baltimore who has the pulse of this community, it is you. You are with the NAACP, head of the local NAACP chapter. You have been in court for most of this time. You were not expecting a mistrial.

[15:35:08] TESSA HILL-ASTON, PRESIDENT, BALTIMORE NAACP: No, I wasn't. I thought that officer porter would be convicted on misconduct and reckless endangerment.

MARQUEZ: And what sort of reaction do you hear, this sort of verdict or this sort of outcome will produce?

HILL-ASTON: Well, already right now a lot of the activists outside the courthouse marching and protesting. And I think it's going to happen all over the city. The main thing that I hope and pray is that no one does any damage to any property and no one causes themselves to be in danger with the police.

MARQUEZ: You were in there for the announcement of the mistrial, that they were hung on all four charges. It has been a tense time the last couple of days waiting for this. What was it like for you as a Baltimorean to sit there and listen to this?

HILL-ASTON: Well, as much as I have respect for the police, in this case, Freddie is dead and he didn't have to be dead. And officer Porter, the officer that was on trial here today, admitted that Freddie asked him for medical help and he didn't give it to him. So that is the part that's very sad and the part the community will be upset about and also myself. I think at the end of the day, when someone asks for help and they're in the back of a van and they need medical attention and doesn't get it, maybe Freddie could still be alive.

MARQUEZ: It feels a bit like a tinder box right now with people angry not just outside the courthouse but in the neighborhood where Freddie was arrested. The police collecting in certain areas preparing for possible unrest in the city. How do you read what's happening here?

HILL-ASTON: Well, I know the police have been working in the past couple of months to make sure that they don't allow anyone to destroy the community. So I know that's very important and I agree with the fact that no one should destroy anything. But I also don't want any citizens to get locked up or hurt in the process because there's always somebody who will do something wrong or someone to get caught up with someone doing something wrong. So that's what I'm concerned about. And I'll probably be out in the street the rest of the evening with some of my other members of the NAACP trying to make sure -- I've talked to a couple of the young men over there. I know them personally. I asked them to stay out of the harm's way of the police.

MARQUEZ: A very unsatisfying moment for Baltimore after everything this city has been through. Where is this city this afternoon?

HILL-ASTON: Sad. It's very sad. Because I think that everybody was very happy the police got indicted and not to get a conviction is painful. Very painful for the whole city. And I know people wanted to - and I hate to use the word rejoice, but we wanted victory in the sense that officers can't get away with killing someone.

MARQUEZ: Do you think it's already forced enough changes in the police department, or is it going to take a conviction of Porter or Goodson or one of the police officers before people feel there's a real change?

HILL-ASTON: I think the police is working hard at changing, but unfortunately there's still some renegade policemen that might mess that up. Right now I think the community wants victory in the courtroom so they feel they got their justice. That's what the community wants.

MARQUEZ: And they're not feeling it tonight.

HILL-ASTON: No, they're not feeling it.

MARQUEZ: All right. Tessa, thank you very much.

HILL-ASTON: Thank you.

MARQUEZ: I think that is the sense that you will hear throughout the streets of Baltimore, the sense that they are pleased that these officers were being held accountable, have been charged, but this idea that there's a mistrial, there already is a feeling that the treatment of these officers, all six of them in this process, is wholly different than anybody else in the neighborhoods here would experience if they were charged with similar crimes. And now this will probably not be received well. It's not clear it will amount to great unrest - Brooke.

BALDWIN: Miguel Marquez speaking with the head of the NAACP there in Baltimore, really getting a sense of how the city is feeling. As she said in a word, it's sad, now that we've learned this mistrial has been declared in this first of what was supposed to be these four separate - forgive me, six separate trials, all six different police officers, involved in the death of Freddie Gray back this past spring.

I have Sunny Hostin with me and Paul Callan who have been wonderful in providing the sort of legal insight as far as what this means moving ahead for the city, these other separate trials. And I think it's important to just go back to the point for people who are just joining us, to your point, about you were surprised that it was this particular officer who was the initial officer as a defendant in this first of six trials. Why?

CALLAN: For several reasons. First, Porter is an African-American officer. And, given the background of this case, there was a feeling in the African-American community I think that the police had been mistreating people for a long time based on race. So it's a little surprising that you would pick as the first cop to try an African- American police officer as opposed to maybe one of the white police officers where you could have at least articulated that there was some sort of racial animus in addition to police misconduct. And the second thing is, you like to start out very strong as a prosecutor because when you've got --

[15:40:02] BALDWIN: To set a tone.

CALLAN: -- six cases, if you lose the first case -- we could talk about the Republican debates for a second and say, you know, what candidate started out the strongest tends to, you know, hold the fort.

BALDWIN: Let me hit pause on this. I want to hear what this officer is saying with the bull horn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are impeding the free flow of foot traffic and vehicle traffic! I need everyone to clear the lanes so people can move about freely. Thank you.

BALDWIN: There you go. Just trying to tell, this Baltimore sheriff. He is trying to tell the folks in Baltimore, I'm presuming, this looks like city hall. I can't quite be for sure telling this crowd here of protesters, of activists, to disperse the courthouse. Thank you. Go ahead.

CALLAN: Yes, as I was saying, as in the Republican debates which you've been covering all day, that's the first debate set the tone for all of the other debates that followed, you know. And very much the same thing happens in courtrooms. You have an acquittal or a hung jury in the first case, it's going to set the tone and that's not a good tone for the rest of the cases.

BALDWIN: I think --

CALLAN: For the prosecutor.

BALDWIN: For the prosecutor. I think it's also important to remind people, remember there was at one point there was a question of should they all be tried together, all six of these officers? And they ultimately decided to try them separately. Why?

HOSTIN: Well, we knew that. I mean, that always makes sense because, you know, when you try a case together, I think it's very difficult for a jury to sort of parse out culpability per defendant. And so defense teams and prosecution teams, quite frankly, more often than not want these cases severed. So that made a lot of sense to me.