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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

GOP Candidates Debate National Security; Fed Expected to Raise Interest Rates. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired December 16, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: U.S. forces, this is really one reason why you saw in the debate last night, so much focus on national security, on surveillance and the ability of the FBI to be able to get communications. Ashleigh.

[12:30:13] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I'm glad you said that, because specifically there is a fact-check that came out on what several of the candidates said that immigration official were unable to check the social media of this in coming killers.

And that's just not true, it's not unable they are not required to, but they are certainly able to, there's no privacy issue with social media when it comes into checking into these things.

So that's a fact-check on several of the candidates who screwed at that point.

I want to bring Jonathan Gilliam on that.

As, you know, a former member of the FBI, what tools are out there to try to circumvent what Director Comey was complaining about. And that is that the manufacturers of these devices have end to end encryption built in to the devices. That is even separate from the sites that are encrypted as well. It's almost like an uphill battle and I mean up Everest battle.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI AGENT: Right, it's very, very difficult. I mean in this type of situation if they can identify who the individual is, which that's part of the problem when you're on Twitter because it may not be a real, you know, definitive answer as to who is communicating, you just know that people are communicating.

But getting to that person's phone, there are certain things that they can do to capture, you know, key strokes, to capture these things, but it is very difficult because you -- first off, you have to have proof so you can get a warrant to get on that phone.

BANFIELD: If you can get on that phone at all, these manufacturers have actually disabled anyone from that, even the law enforcement after the murder of 14 people cannot get into those files.

And they talked about it in the debate last night, it's especially Carly Fiorina who said it's time to ask the manufacturers to play ball as suppose to telling them. And well, I think they've been asked. I don't think they want to do it.

GILLIAM: Here's the difficulty in doing this because we have a legal system. But we also besides the legal system, we have lawyers that continuously press these certain issues. And I just think that we have to start looking at this stuff and holding people accountable such as these dating sites for instance.

You know, these are the ways that we can forward-think and try to get a hold of, if somebody is looking for a wife overseas, put a little bit more scrutiny on that if the imams know that this person is trouble which their imam did. They should be held accountable if they didn't come forward and say something.

That's the way we're going to be able to get around this electronic part. But ultimately, I'll tell you what it is, it's not electronic, it's sources. Sources will tell us everything we need to know.

BANFIELD: I call it dirty intel.

GILLIAM: That's right.

BANFIELD: Old fashioned gum shoe boots on the ground whether it's here in America, overseas and the dangerous spots that's the new age army, yes.

GILLIAM: And it also shows us what is just as important, last night, they put a lot of emphasis on the ground war...

BANFIELD: Yeah.

GILLIAM: This is just as important, because this where they bring their fighters to the ground war.

BANFIELD: It's a great point Jonathan Gilliam, thank you for that. Evan Perez, thank you as well.

Also today, there was something else on this war on terror. An update to what Jonathan was just saying, the country's terrorism problem and our advisory system. There's an update, now in effect.

Our Rene Marsh is watching the government regulation, policy for us and she joins me live in Washington.

Rene, I remember well when the Bush administration came out with this magical color-coded rainbow system to tell us just how dangerous life was out on the American main streets with regard to terror.

Is that similar to what we we're seeing, is it a tweak to that, what exactly is it that Homeland Security wants to do for us?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION & GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well Ashleigh, that color-coded system is no more. They've done away with that. So what they're doing is, they're updating the system that they put in place in 2011.

So Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, he just added a third alert level to the country's terror alert system.

Now the system as you know it's used to inform Americans about threats to the homeland. So this new alert level will be called a bulletin.

And it's essentially intended to describe general threats of terrorism, not specific or credible threats of course those specific and credible threats would still be classified as either elevated or imminent alert.

Now, the bulletin that Johnson just announced today would not only describe the current trends of threats, it would also outline what DHS, Justice Department as well as the FBI are doing about it, also gives advice to the public about how to report information if they see something that's of concern.

And just today after announcing this additional threat level, Johnson issued the first bulletin. And it essentially outlines a concern about those self-radicalized individuals who could pull of, an attack with little to no notice.

And Johnson said that the public should expect to see increased presence of law enforcement in the coming weeks. Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: OK, thank you very much Rene Marsh, appreciate that.

[12:35:00] Coming up next, if you were watching the debate, did you hear this one last night?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Are you referring to closing down actual portions of the internet, some say that would put the U.S. in line with China and North Korea?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, look, this is so easy to answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Maybe easy to answer, but pretty darn hard to pull off or is it?

You're going to hear exactly what that would entail next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Last night on the Republican national debate stage in Las Vegas, Donald Trump said that he didn't want terrorists to "Use our internet to take our young and impressional people."

To that end he said he's open to the idea of closing down parts of the worldwide web specifically and again these are his words, parts of the internet where ISIS is.

Think that through, because Laurie Segall has been up all night thinking that one through for us. She's our tech correspondent. So I want to listen to the words of Donald Trump. And then I want to ask you on the other side. Exactly specifically, because words matter when you're commander-in-chief, what's this means have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We should be able to penetrate the internet and find out exactly where ISIS is and everything about ISIS. And we can do that if we use our good people.

I'm not talking about closing the internet. I'm talking about the parts of Syria, parts of Iraq where ISIS is, spotting it.

Now you could close it, but what I like even better than that is getting our smartest and getting our best to infiltrate their internet so that we know exactly where they're going, exactly where they're going to be, I like that better.

But we have to -- who would be -- I just can't imagine somebody booing. These are people that want to kill us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Laurie, Donald Trump can't imagine people booing that. But perhaps he's not thinking about the people who are constitutionalists and constructionists who don't want to see any infringement on the first amendment.

[12:40:08] Is there anything that Trump is saying that can actually circumvent the first amendment and can still be last step with the first amendment if you're shutting down the internet?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNNMONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: You know, even looking at this question, let me just kind of get in to the nitty-gritty, right. If you're looking at shutting down -- and first of all, is it even a question we need to ask. But let me ask and answer the question before we even get to the stuff we need to answer.

The internet isn't operated by one country. It's very difficult to shut it down in certain place. He said, he amended what he said, and he said maybe we can shut it down in Syria, you know, shutting down the internet in parts of Syria, we make it very difficult, and you also shut off parts of the internet for innocent civilians as you're talking about much of a series operated by satellite providers would makes it even more difficult to shut down parts of the internet.

Now, is the question, and I think what you're hearing with some folks booing is the question we need to answer to ISIS online, ISIS infiltrating and using propaganda to spread it's shutting down the internet that -- is that the answer?

I think a lot of folks, and I'll tell you this from calling up some of the best and the brightest in Silicon Valley and asking them, is this the answer?

They laugh at me, Ashleigh, you know, for me to even ask them these questions because this is a complicated question, this is very difficult, and it requires a complicated solution that, you know, when you hear Donald Trump just kind of skirting around a little bit.

BANFIELD: I mean I think, some of the immediate conversations that came up last night as soon as he made those comments were China and North Korea, they have been very successful in limiting their people from hearing things they don't want their people hearing.

And I think what Donald Trump is saying is he's not trying to do this to punish people. He's trying to do this to protect people. But effectively, it's the same mechanism, wouldn't you be suggesting it sustain kinds of mechanisms as those countries employs and limit the internet, you're accessed to it.

SEGALL: Absolutely. I think really the question, we need to be asking is, how do we go to Facebook? How do we go to Twitter? How do we have real conversations with the government?

And I think, when you talk to folks in Silicon Valley, there's this frustration because there's almost a bit -- and I just got phone to someone who said there's a lack of understanding about how this works.

I mean even if you were just shutdown parts of the internet, even if you limit access, right now you better bet that government intelligence is sniffing traffic coming out of Syria.

BANFIELD: That was my other question for you. And I love the fact that you outlined very simply.

We don't have control over everyone's internets. We might have some control over our internets, but you can't just call up Bashar a thug, and ask him to shut down his servers.

And I'm assuming that our guys in Washington or wherever else they maybe are using these to the best of their ability to ferret out every bit of information and that's actually helpful to encourage those bad doers to keep talking and loud so that we can hear more about their plans.

SEGALL: A 100 percent. Even when you had anonymous attacking, collecting, shutting down these Twitter accounts. You speak with folks kind of background from the government he say "Well, this makes it very difficult for us because we're actually monitoring a lot of these accounts."

So how do you kind of create that balance?

I would say, you know, how do you talk to Facebook? Facebook, it takes on hundreds of thousands of terrorist images every week, every month. You know, but where is our connection?

How does the government take this publicly-available information and do something with it and really learn from it.

You know, Facebook is required when it comes to the child exploitation to go to the government and to report a lot of the images they're taking down.

So how do we have this kind of conversation, when it pertains to what's happening now, on how ISIS is utilizing some of these services, rather than just, "Hey, let's shut it all down."

BANFIELD: Yeah, the very thing they're using against us, is the very thing that our investigators can use against them. So it is a catch 22.

Laurie thank you so much, it's not just a catch 22, it's a crazy talk, it's a interesting talk certainly helps us to understand a little bit more about how we do our work. Thank you, Laurie, appreciate it.

[12:43:50] Coming up next, how did the feds overlook the online red flags from the San Bernardino terrorist? A couple of Republican presidential candidates say they know what went wrong, and they know how to fix it. That's next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Well, they don't agree with Donald Trump's call to shutdown our internet in areas controlled by ISIS. Those were his words and not mine. But the Republican candidates for president appear to have agreed that terror has to be defeated online as well as on the ground.

So to that end I want to play you some of Jake Tapper's interview with Texas Senator Ted Cruz, this happened after last night debate on national security and it starts with P.C. and then turns quickly to P.C.s.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you have the Democratic Party as a matter of policy refusing to even utter the words radical Islamic terrorists.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you know why they're doing that, right. I mean, because not it's the same reason George W. Bush was reluctant to do it, which was national security experts say, if you do that, you feed into the propaganda of the west versus Islam.

CRUZ: Jake, that's fundamentally wrong. They're doing it because of political correctness, because they don't want to identify what it is we're fighting.

TAPPER: That be end of (inaudible).

CRUZ: And it's having real consequences because we're not stopping the bad guys. So for example, you look at the female Jihadis in San Bernardino. She posted on Facebook years ago calling for Jihad and yet DHS when processing her fiance visa didn't look at social media, because they have a policy in place not to look at social media, which is public and it is literally just looking to see what she has said publicly to the world, because they think it would inappropriate political correctness does not make any sense when we are fighting. TAPPER: But how is that political correctness and not just privacy issues, because that's my understand is that the message she wrote was first of all in Urdu (ph), second of all under issue (ph) him and third of all in a private message that she was saying back and forth with some friends.

CRUZ: Listen, if we are not capable of understanding Urdu, then we shouldn't be approving visa application on that.

TAPPER: But we don't have access to the Facebook private messages of people. This wasn't posted on her page, it was private message.

CRUZ: We should be directing our attention to focusing on radical Islamic terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And again, just a quick fact check on that from our incredible CNN fact checkers. It is not true that investigators have a policy where they cannot look at people's social media. They can. They are not required to. That's the wording, they are not required to, but they can, there's no policy against it and that was repeated by several different candidates.

[12:50:01] And when you talk about social media the online war for the hearts and minds, Carly Fiorina says you are speaking her language.

Last night, the former CEO for Hewlett Packard said that, she could bring Silicon Valley on board to crack terrorist encryptions, but speaking this morning on "New Day" Fiorina said there's a problem when U.S. intelligence circles that's a lot more basic. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, terrorists now. ISIS has help desk on their website for how to make your messages disappear. You don't think we have more sophisticated technologies in this country that ISIS? Of course, we do, but we are not using them, we're not engaging with them. Every employer in the country has figured out with people's permission how the check social postings. Our government is inept sometimes because it is political correct, sometimes because bureaucrat are driven by ideology, but sometimes because bureaucracies are always behind the times.

When technology moves on five generation, and bureaucrats and politicians are still fighting the fights of 2002, we are going to keep losing.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: Where is the point of no return as you can see in the process? With poll numbers or, you're going to just put them to the side? See what happen on the votes, how many votes do you go without success before you re-establish?

FIORINA: Oh wow, you are like declaring an end to my candidacy.

CUOMO: Not at all. I'm asking where the processes. FIORINA: And I think that we are just getting started. Look. Here is the truth. Going into this debate, I was tied in national polls with Jeb Bush who has spent $50 million on air. And I haven't spent a dime. So, I have gone further faster, than anyone imagined. Here's what I believe.

People watching that debate need to think about the next debate, next fall where there are two podiums on the stage. Behind one is going to be Hillary Clinton, who do we want behind the other? Someone who's never made an executive decision, someone who insults women, someone who talks a good game, but hasn't ever led or do we want someone who can actually beat her. And I think people want to win

BANFIELD: Long night for the folks in Vegas up late, up early and some them right up to the whole night as well.

By the way you can watch the Republican debate in full. CNN is going to replay it Friday night at 10:00 p.m.

Coming up next, what goes up must come down or go up? I don't know actually. That's a good question, because today the fed is having a big meeting and a big announcement on the interest rates. What that means for the 4011k, for your mortgage, for your job security, for your bank account, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:56:22] BANFIELD: For the first time in nearly a decade the federal reserve is expected to do something we have not heard, raise interest rates. It is a decision that could come at any time. In fact their scheduled for 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time, little more than an hour from now, lot of people are really on edge about this folks.

Wall Street seems to be talking it in stride. Look at this, but look the two is interesting, but the green stuff is more interesting. And I love seeing the green stuff, because Christine Romans is far more articulate about all things money.

So, I say that because the markets are -- shot up over 100.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.

BANFIELD: It's now heading back down and the big issue that everyone is looking at is, will the Fed make a move for the first time in a decade, but why are they freaking out about that?

ROMANS: OK, so we think the Fed is likely going to raise interest rates for the first time in a decade. Here what it says Ashleigh, it means that the emergency is over. The emergency action to keep the economy from falling into another great depression is over, and the Fed thinks, things are back to normal, the job market is back, economic growth, banks are lending and so you don't need to have zero federal funds. Basically free to borrow money in America after several years, I think the Fed is going to tick it up in interest rates.

BANFIELD: OK, to the lay-person. Well, gist Christine that's sounds like good news if the fed does that, it signals we're back to utopia, but the markets don't necessarily agreeing.

ROMANS: So the markets are trying to figure out what these all means and here's why. They're concern about junk bond crisis. There have been some risky investments in the oil patch in particular, as the oil price is at plunge, some companies have gotten rocky and they're not paying all of the debt, and that becomes a problem, and that is shaking through credit land. So far that has been contained.

BANFIELD: The Wall Street wants Janet Yellen to not do anything?

ROMANS: You know, Wall Street knows she's going to do something. You can't have zero interest rates forever. It's not an emergency in American economy.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

ROMANS: Relatively strong the American economy is everybody else on the world. I mean, look Canada. You look at any of the commodity for using countries.

The U.S. is doing well with a five percent unemployment rate and there is economic growth in this country. So, it's not an emergency anymore, everyone know that something she should have done a long time ago, other are worried that the timing right now in some of this uncertainty in the emerging markets, some of the uncertainty of the crash and oil prices and this credit market turmoil because of junk bonds needs the timing a little shaky.

BANFIELD: Christine and I were having our coffee in the morning and talk about this stuff, truly. We talk about our children and the Fed.

And one of the thing you said is those 13 candidates last night...

ROMANS: Right.

BANFIELD: ... who all want to be leader of the free world, she said they think their leader in the free world.

It really lay (ph) from Brooklyn who's the leader of the free world.

ROMANS: Yeah.

BANFIELD: And what she says is critical. And particularly these words and just want you to tell me why, the worlds gradual and the word accommodative. If she uses those words over and over again it tells us something.

ROMANS: Or if she uses those words or something that is a synonym for those words that's important. That means that the Fed is not going to jack up interest rates very quickly and very sharply.

I mean, if you are looking to buy a home, and most people who -- they don't think it is sexy talk about the Fed, right? But if you are out there trying to buy a house, all of a sudden becomes very interesting doesn't it? The Fed is going to raise interest rates that means mortgage rates are going to go up, that means car loans are going to be more expensive, credit card debt is going to become more expensive. That's where it really matter to you. But if she uses words like gradual and accommodative, that's meaning they're going go up slowly and gradually and that you are still, and it is not going to be shutting off the money speaking there's a 30 year fix rate mortgage by the way, look at that. Well, less than 4 percent.

BANFIELD: I have refinanced twice in two years. It's crazy.

ROMANS: I know a lot of people have. But I think next year we'll still be good year for refinancing.

BANFIELD: That's good (ph).

ROMANS: But, we'll know for sure at 2:00.

BANFIELD: 2:00 Christine is going to be on top. Thank you ma'am.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: I do appreciate I will see you for c coffee tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. we'll do it late tomorrow.

ROMANS: OK.

BANFIELD: Thanks for watching everybody it's nice to have you with us. Guess what? Wolf Blitzer fresh off of the debate stage starts his show at the top of the hour. You do not want to miss it. The man with insight who was right there looking in their eyes is next.