Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Americans Increasingly In Fear Over Safety; Interview with Sen. John Thune; Market Flat after Fed Rate Hike; U.S. and Russia Target Funding; Freddie Gray's Family Remains Hopeful; "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" Premieres Tonight. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 17, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:04] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All of this coming at a time that Americans are increasingly in fear for their safety. The vast majority of Americans now feel government officials are unable to stop lone wolf attacks. According to the State Department, between 2001 and 2013, that's 12 years, more than 3,000 people have been killed by domestic acts of terror inside the United States. It's important to hear these numbers because I want to put them into perspective. So keep that in mind, 3,000 killed in 12 years. During that same time period, the CDC says more than 400,000 have been killed by gun violence.

That's not to say we shouldn't be concerned about terror attacks within our borders, but critics say the rhetoric coming from the presidential candidates is exploitive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have entered World War III. World War III has begun.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're at war, folks. They're not trying to steal your car. They're trying to kill us all.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we announce that we're going to have a no fly zone, and others have said this. Hillary Clinton's also for it. It is a recipe for disaster. It's a recipe for World War III.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to restore the defense cuts of Barack Obama, to rebuild our military, to destroy ISIS before it destroys us.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Think about the mothers who will take those children tomorrow morning to the bus stop, wondering whether their children will arrive back on that bus safe and sound.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK, as I said, perspective is important here. How afraid should we really be? With me now, Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota. Thank you very much, sir, for being here.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: Good morning, Carol. Thanks.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

Before we dive into fear in America, I know you are trying to keep us safer by introducing a bill that tightens airport security. Can you tell us about it?

THUNE: Right. There's been -- there have been some serious gaps in our screening process when it comes to people who work at airports, Carol. There were a couple of high profile examples of missing what they sita (ph) badges. These are badges that give people access to sensitive areas in airport and lost badges that didn't get reported and people who actually had those badges sneaking weapons on to -- on to planes. It's something that has to be tightened up. We've had hearings on it. We have a new TSA administrator now. we've introduced a bill that would shore up the gaps and the shortcomings in the system that we have today to make sure that people who work at airports are operating in a safe way and that people have access to secure areas are people that we can trust. So it's all part of a process that we need to be very focused on that improves and strengthens our security, not only at our airports, but in other areas across the country where people are moving in large numbers.

COSTELLO: OK, well that is good to hear.

Now I want to talk about this fear factor in the United States. According to "The Boston Globe," many Americans are actually canceling their travel plans because they fear terrorist attacks. Should they be afraid? Are you afraid to travel?

THUNE: I'm not. I travel on a regular basis back and forth from my home state of South Dakota and oftentimes other places around the country. And I think people can be confident when they travel. Our intelligence community, law enforcement officials, people are working collectively to make sure that we can -- people can move across this country in a safe way. Having said that, I think we all have to be very aware of our surrounds, make sure that we're taking the steps that are necessary to protect ourselves and that working with, as I said before, our law enforcement community to ensure that areas that people are congregating in, people are traveling through are safe areas.

So it's a -- I'm confident. I think we've got systems that work very well. We can always do it better and that's what we're trying to be -- we're trying to be focused on.

COSTELLO: OK. So let's talk the people who track these terror suspects down. According to a "Washington Post"/ABC News poll, it shows the majority of Americans fears authorities cannot stop a lone wolf attack. Now, it's true, police can't stop all lone wolf attacks, right? But they have been successful at stopping many attacks. So, again, how afraid should we be of these lone wolf attacks and are you confident that our authorities can stop most of them? THUNE: I am. And I think we have stopped a lot of them. There are

documented cases in this last year, since the beginning of this year, of terrorist attacks that have been foiled in this country on repeated occasions. So our law enforcement officials, intelligence community, do a really good job and the steps are being taken to protect the American people.

We're an open society and we have to remember that we're not going to be able to stop everything. But when people travel in this country, when they're going about, carry on their daily lives, they can have full confidence that the people who were responsible for looking after their safety are doing everything conceivable, everything possible to protect them.

You know, these lone wolf things, these people who get radicalized in our country is something that we have to stay on top of. And as we saw with the incident in San Bernardino, when it comes to visa waivers, those types of things, there are steps that are currently being take to tighten that process up. We can always do better. The biggest room in the house is the room for improvement and we're looking for ways to do -- to do that, to strengthen our existing system. But people in this country can move freely. And we shouldn't fear the terrorists. That's exactly what they want us to do. People need to travel, they need to carry on their daily lives.

[09:35:16] COSTELLO: OK. So now to the idea that we're on the verge of World War III. Yesterday I talked with Retired General Mark Kimmet, who served under George W. Bush as deputy assistant secretary for Middle East policy. General Kimmet was in charge of U.S. forces in Iraq under George Bush. He's also a Republican. Listen to what he told me yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIGADIER GENERAL MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY (RET.): To somehow suggest, as many of these did, that we should be carpet bombing, that we should be expelling Muslims from America, that's not going to solve the problem. And I would wish that my candidates would speak with a little more prudence. So because of that fear and insecurity on the part of the American people, I think these candidates are tapping into that fear and in some cases leveraging it and frankly in some cases exploiting it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So should the presidential candidates tone down the rhetoric?

THUNE: You know, it's a campaign season. Terrorism and security issues are forefront. There was a "Wall Street Journal" and NBC News poll that came out a couple of days ago that said terrorism and the economy are the top two issues people are concerned about. And the problem is that 37 percent of the people in this country don't approve of the president's handling of foreign policy today. But, you know, the answer to this is, we've got to take the fight to the terrorists. We have to -- we have to defeat ISIS. And we need to be talking about, I think our candidates do, the strategy in order to do that. We've got to change the momentum that's happening on the battlefield in places like Iraq and Syria and whatever do everything we can to protect the homeland.

COSTELLO: Well -- well, senator -- senator, I -- senator, I think many Americans would agree -- would agree with you. But -- but this notion that we should all be deathly afraid of ISIS attacking us at every -- in every corner of America, doesn't that type of rhetoric need to be toned down? Because you heard Chris Christie talking about, you know, mothers sending their children to school on the school bus. But what happened in Los Angeles turned out to be a hoax.

THUNE: Well, and the rhetoric needs to be restrained, Carol. I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying I think everybody needs to be prudent. Everybody needs to take a deep breathe. Talk about the facts. I don't -- I don't think we need to -- we don't need to be overly fearful. We also need to be very aware and vigilant in making sure that we're doing everything that we can to protect the homeland at the same time we're taking the fight to people who want to kill people here in the United States. And that means trying to root out some of these lone wolf attackers who are being radicalized through social media, coming up with better strategies to combat that. I -- I don't -- I absolutely agree, I think people who are seeking elective office need to talk about strategies to defeat ISIS, to protect the homeland, but we need to be, you know, talking about these issues in a way that is measured and that doesn't create unnecessary fear among the American people.

COSTELLO: Senator John Thune, thank you so much for being with me.

THUNE: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, let's take a look at the Dow because you know what happened yesterday, interest rates went up. We're keeping an eye on it. Not much happening right now, but we'll check back in again.

We've got to take a break. I'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:41:24] COSTELLO: The Federal Reserve's first rate hike in a decade was relatively small, just a quarter of a point, but so far the Dow this morning is flat.

Let's check in with CNN business correspondent Alison Kosik. She's watching the markets today.

Not much happening.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Not much happening. Still, there could be a Santa Claus rally because the Fed kind of gave the market a gift yesterday, finally raising rates a quarter of a percent. The Fed also giving kind of another second gift, wrapped in a big bow, buzz words like gradual, small and accommodating, meaning that -- that every rate hike coming after this they said is going to be small, which may amount to only a 1 percent interest rate by the end of next year. So it's those words that actually wound up calming the market. The market actually cheered the move yesterday. We saw the Dow rally over 200 points yesterday. Today it looks like there's just a collective breathe in and breathe out happening.

Carol.

COSTELLO: I like it when it's that way. It makes me feel calmer.

KOSIK: Doesn't it?

COSTELLO: It does. Alison Kosik, thanks.

KOSIK: Sure.

COSTELLO: Today, U.S. and Russian officials are teaming up. They're calling on the United Nations to hit ISIS where it hurts, right in the wallet. The self-funded terror group primarily relies on smuggling oil for finances. The U.S. and Russia now insisting that member U.N. countries step up and do more to stop the money flow. CNN's Jose Pagliery is following that story for us this morning.

So, my first comment about this story is like, what took so long?

JOSE PAGLIERY, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: What took so long? Well, that's a great question. So it's about time that the world, you know, looks at ISIS as a combined enemy, right? ISIS poses a threat to everyone, right? And this is the first time that the U.S. and Russia are actually agreeing on something here, which is, let's try to hit them where it hurts. Let's try to get their money. So ISIS made $2 billion -- an estimated $2 million in 2014. That's a huge load of money selling oil, taxing the land that they actually control, looting banks as well. And so they've got to park that money somewhere and so this is just that first step where what the U.S. and Russia are trying to do is block it from using the world banks, right? They've got to park this money somewhere. We're going to try to stop them from moving it around.

COSTELLO: There's ISIS money in banks around the world? Some banks around -- like in -- some banks would block terrorist (INAUDIBLE), right?

PAGLIERY: Sure. Of course they would. Of course they would. But this is just the first move in saying, let's all come together and make sure that no bank anywhere will accept this money. They'll be cut off completely. But it's not just this. So this resolution also is trying to prevent any arms from flowing into that region as well. Stopping the flow of oil, which some people have noted is moving into places like Turkey, places into Iraq, Lebanon.

COSTELLO: Who's buying the oil?

PAGLIERY: So this is black market oil that is crossing the border and getting sold across the border, right? And what's difficult here -- COSTELLO: So when you say black market oil, is it -- does the Turkish government buy it? Do like -- just citizens buy it off -- I mean who buys it?

PAGLIERY: So this is interesting. This is really interesting. So Russia has accused the Turkish government of being complicit in having that oil move across its borders. Turkey completely denies that, says that's not true. But, I mean, I've talked to military scholars who have noted that this oil is moving around. I mean this is getting -- this is getting bought and sold on the black market. So just imagine if you're the town in Turkey, you can either buy oil legally at the legal price or black market oil, which is half off, right? And so that's what it really means. ISIS is making this money by selling on the black market. Selling it in places where it's not restricted, where it's not -- it's not regulated. That's how they're making some $500 million this year.

COSTELLO: OK. Something you said in the break intrigued me. You said ISIS is making most of its money off of taxing people.

PAGLIERY: That's right (ph).

COSTELLO: Because when I think of areas controlled by ISIS, I don't think of people going to work and paying taxes.

[09:45:01] PAGLIERY: So, let's keep in mind what's going on here. So, Iraq and Syria, people live there, people work there, 8 million people according to the United Nations. ISIS has taken over that territory. People are still working, people still live there.

And so what they are doing is they're going door by door and demanding that people pay a 10 percent income tax, 10 percent business tax, a special tax on Christians called the jizya. And that - they're squeezing these people like a Mafia. That is how they're getting as much money as they have got.

I've talked to some experts who said that last year they made some $360 million this way. This year it might be $800 million.

COSTELLO: It's just insane. Okay, so they're...

PAGLIERY: They're a power house.

COSTELLO: They are. Okay, so -- I guess I'm glad an effort is being made to stop the money flow, but it is not going happen immediately.

PAGLIERY: It's the first step. And you know what? It's one dimension of the campaign to stop ISIS because on the other hand, the U.S. is leading a coalition of air strikes. And so, they're also targeting the way that ISIS draws the oil out of ground and moves it to sell it. So again, this U.N. resolution today is just one part of a fight on ISIS, but it's a major step forward in getting the world to agree that ISIS is an enemy the way Al Qaeda has been considered an enemy.

COSTELLO: Jose Pagliery, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the family of Freddie Gray waiting out a decision. Their attorney will join me live from Baltimore, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:00] COSTELLO: The family of Freddie Gray is remaining hopeful this morning for a new trial.

This less than 24 hours after a judge declared a hung jury in the case against Officer William Porter. That's him right there. The news sending a group of protesters into the streets of Baltimore.

They marched peacefully as Gray's family thanked the men and women on the jury, writing a statement that reads in part, quote, "We thank this hard-working jury for their service to the public, their quest for justice, their personal sacrifice of their time and effort. We are not at all upset with them, neither should the public be upset. Once again, we ask the public to remain calm and patient because we're confident there will be another trial with a different jury. We are calm. You should be calm, too."

With me now is Jason Downs, he's an attorney for the family of Freddie Gray. Welcome, sir.

JASON DOWNS, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF FREDDIE GRAY: Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. Does it surprise you that the jury was deadlocked on all four counts?

DOWNS: Well, no, it doesn't surprise me at all. In fact, hung juries are a part of our system. So, when you look at cases across the country, you have to understand that this happens not only in Baltimore but everywhere in the country. And the Gray family was well prepared for the fact that a hung jury was one of many possibilities in this case.

COSTELLO: Billy Murphy, another of the Gray family attorneys, appeared on NEW DAY this morning. He said that the officer in question lied on the stand. In your mind, what did Officer Porter lie about?

DOWNS: Well, if you look at Officer Porter's testimony and you look at his statement, those two do not comport with each other. Now, we have to -- at some point he had to have lied. If he said at one point that Mr. Gray was able to help himself - help himself and able to stand on his own, on the other Mr. Gray's neck was sort of slumped over and he wasn't really - he wasn't able to move, those two sentiments, those two statements don't comport with each other.

So, something has to be not true, one or the other. The question is, which one isn't true?

COSTELLO: Yes, and it obviously confused the jury, right, because some must have believed the officer and some must have believed your side.

DOWNS: Well, it could be that the jury thought that the inconsistency was inconsequential. We just don't know. The jury didn't have to believe or disbelieve Officer Porter because it's the state's burden of proof. The state must prove Officer Porter and any other criminal defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

So, we shouldn't analyze the case in terms of whether the jury believed or disbelieved Officer Porter. We have to analyze the case in terms of whether reasonable - where the state proved the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

COSTELLO: Some members of the community feel that this is a sign of things to come, that the five cases that come after this case will result in mistrials as well. What do you say to those people?

DOWNS: We should never decide that because one case resulted in mistrial the others will follow suit. In fact, every other criminal defendant in this case, all the other officers have different charges. The elements are different. The evidence is expected to be different in every single case. So, we should wait and see what the evidence is with regard to every single officer. And we should judge each officer separately.

COSTELLO: And just a last word about the Gray family, because this must be agonizing for them. Now they have to go through it all again.

DOWNS: Well, the Gray family was prepared since the very beginning of this case understanding that this is going to be a marathon, not a sprint. They understand that there would be at least six trials. They understand that that could take as much as a year or more because they understood that hung juries were part of the process. So, they did not expect quick justice, they were not looking for quick justice, All they want is justice.

[09:53:47] COSTELLO: All right, Jason Downs, thank you for be being with me. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It is the movie are event of a generation. "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" premiers tonight for fans in the United States. The movie is already getting rave reviews, it really is. In the meantime, some fans are watching marathon screenings of the first six movies in order to, well, prepare.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The force, it's calling to you.

Just let it in.

COSTELLO (voice-over): Oh, my gosh. I was mesmerized by that. I can't stop watching, even the trailer. It's amazing.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO (on camera): CNN's Frank Pallotta joins. That was an amazing. FRANK PALLOTTA, CNN MEDIA REPORTER: It is. There has been an

awakening, Caroll. Have you felt it?

COSTELLO: I did. I just it.

PALLOTTA: Have you felt it?

COSTELLO: Amazing.

PALLOTTA: Yes.

COSTELLO: So, you have your.

PALLOTTA: I have my buddy Kylo Ren here. He is the bad guy in the new movie, The Force Awakens. He is played by Adam Driver. He is very, very scary. I saw the movie a few nights ago. It is an incredible experience.

COSTELLO: You saw the movie already?

PALLOTTA: I saw the movie.

COSTELLO: Is that your press pass...

PALLOTTA: No, this is actually the press pass for the six movie -- the seven movie marathon that you were just talking about. Started at 1:00 a.m. last night, runs until 10:00 p.m. tonight and will include the latest movie and all six of the original movies.

COSTELLO: And how many theaters across the country are doing this crazy thing?

PALLOTTA: There's multiple, multiple theaters all across the country who are doing it.

COSTELLO: I just can't believe it. So, you say the movie is good, because I have read mixed reviews, Frank.

PALLOTTA: Who? Who are these mixed reviews?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO (voice-over): Who are these people? I don't remember, but I did read that.

PALLOTTA (voice-over): The critics love it. It has 97 percent rating score on Rotten Tomatoes which is a critic site. It is one of the best reviewed movies of the year right now.

COSTELLO: Really?

PALLOTTA: Yes.

COSTELLO: So, I should go see it. I should wait in long lines with people dressed up as Star Wars characters and see this movie.

PALLOTTA: Definitely. You can even borrow my mask if you want. You can bring it.

COSTELLO: That would be awesome.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

PALLOTTA (on camera): You can bring this right in -- well, you can't actually wear the mask to the theater, but you can wear it in line.

COSTELLO (on camera): Because that would be scary.

PALLOTTA: Yes, I can -- I can put it on right now if you want me to, Carol.

COSTELLO: Would you do that?

PALLOTTA: All right. There you go. Big event. I get paid to do this. I'm a 28-year-old journalist.

COSTELLO: I love that.

PALLOTTA: Never forget that kick.

COSTELLO: And I'm so jealous.

PALLOTTA: Never forget that.

COSTELLO: Thanks, Frank. I know you must be exhausted from your move marathon, so I'll let you go.

PALLOTTA: I'm very tired.

COSTELLO: Okay. Thanks, Frank.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: In other news this morning, in Illinois a professor at an evangelical college has been suspended for quoting Pope Francis as saying Christians and Muslims share the same god.