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First Criminal Charges Filed in San Bernardino Shooting; Abdelhamid Abaaoud, Returned to France by Way of Greek Island; Jeb Bush Denies Plan to Backing Out of Loyalty Pledge over Donald Trump. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 17, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: All right. You are watching CNN. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Today is the day we expect to see the first criminal charges actually now filed in the deadliest terror attack here in the United States since 9/11, the San Bernardino shooting from 115 days ago. The man likely to be charged has told officials he did not know about the plot that would ultimately claimed the lives of 14 people and leave another 21 people wounded.

But prosecutors say this man Enrique Marquez did admit to providing some of the weapons used in the mass murder. Marquez was a friend of the gunman, the husband, the husband and wife murderous duo here. They ultimately were killed in that police shootout hours after they opened fire inside of that England regional center in San Bernardino.

Also this, CNN has just learned they were buried two days ago, though no word on where. So let me get straight to CNN's Evan Perez and with us here is defense attorney Randy Zelin. Good to see both of you.

You have more news, a little bit more information on these charges as it pertains to the weapons.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That's right, Brooke. We expect that the charges for Enrique Marquez will face will center on these firearms, the two AR-15, that he says he bought for Syed Farook. And he said that Syed Farook asked him to get these firearms because he didn't want to attract attention in getting another background check. Farook already owned three firearms. These firearms were bought, these two rifles, AR-15 rifles were bought in 2011 and 2012.

It's interesting also that's around is one of the period that Marquez claims that he and Farook cooked up this plan to carry out a terrorist attack of their own. Marquez says that he converted to Islam before then. And that's part of the story that he has been telling the FBI. He has been talking to the FBI now cooperatively telling them everything he knows for the past week or so. He has waived his Miranda rights and then has a lawyer helping him. I think he is looking for some kind of leniency because he knows that he is in trouble for having secured these firearms that were used to kill 14 people and injure so many others. So we expect that those charges will center to those firearms. It

doesn't mean this is the end of it because we expect that the FBI is still working on this case and may bring additional charges. The prosecutors will be able to bring additional charges. They don't have to show all their cards just yet.

BALDWIN: So with regards to what he just said, I mean, you have to ask what happened in 2012. But we know this is pertinent, this relates to these weapons charges. What kind of charges could we be talking about here?

RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let's start with the reason why this gentleman probably ended up cooperating and is entering into a plea. I'm assuming a cooperation agreement. Because when you provide material support to terrorists --

BALDWIN: Even though he says he had no idea?

ZELIN: And someone dies. That's called life in prison. That's called you are coming out feet first. Now, if we were in law school, you would make the argument. I did know I bought these guns year before, years before. You got to prove intent. You got to prove knowledge. This is a law school. This is real life. Does anyone really think this guy would get a fair trial?

Plus, all of this evidence could possibly come in if there could be some proof he was talking about another plot. Remember, a conspiracy is just the agreement and somebody doing something in furtherance of the agreement. You don't actually have to carry it out.

So what possible chance would this guy have in a courtroom? He negotiates a cooperation agreement. They probably want to know who these people were working with and that will allow the judge not to put him in for the rest of his life.

PEREZ: Interestingly enough, he is, as you know Brooke, he checked himself into a mental health facility.

BALDWIN: Is he out or he is still in?

PEREZ: No. He is not in anymore. He has been working and talking to the FBI. And really, I mean, that's going to play a role in this because, obviously, I think from his lawyer's perspective, he is going to try to argue, I think, that perhaps that's one reason to have some leniency. He says he went in there because he was very upset about the attacks. He says he had nothing to do with it. Did not know anything about it. He even says that he helped Farook build IEDs in the past. Again, it is a hobby, but takes no responsibility for the ones that were associated with the event.

BALDWIN: I mean, so when you hear hobby, you say he hasn't -- didn't know about the plot. He can go and he checks himself in. I don't know what his previous mental state has been. But I mean, when you are hearing all of that and you are thinking as his -- if you're prosecuting him, what do you do? ZELIN: Well, if I'm prosecuting him, I would love to have this guy in

my conference room because I would love to ask him about what the real bad people were doing, who they were talking to, who they were networking with, maybe you can tell me where the hard drive is. Maybe you can tell me where there's other evidence that I can find so I can find the rest of this network. And what I give him in exchange is what is called a cooperation agreement, which is I'm going to go to the judge and say, judge, do what you want, cut this guy a break. He helped us, he provided what is called substantial assistance. And then as you know, the fact that he checked himself into rehab, that becomes a different argument. Over here you have a downward departure because of cooperation. Over here you have a non-guidelines sentence because of the sentencing factors. One of them being I was all messed up in the head. I came clean. I am helping. Please, let me see the light of day sometime soon.

[15:05:33] BALDWIN: We should know soon enough about the charges. And maybe, as you point out, additional charges here as it involves Enrique Marquez.

Evan and Randy, thank you both very much on that.

There has been, let me get to this, there has been a major development in the Paris attack that killed 129 people and wounded more than 350 others from last month. Here's what we're learning. A source says French authorities are now convinced that the ringleader of those attacks in the attackers, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, returned to France by way of Greece, the Greek island Leros. Here is the map. Look for yourself.

Greece has been inundated with hundreds of thousands of refugees, many of them, you know, innocent civilians trying to flee this war back home. It is not clear if Abaaoud exploited the refugee processing system to cross the borders.

Just this it afternoon we heard from President Barack Obama defending the U.S. process for screening refugees. He spoke from the national counterterrorism center.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Any refugee coming to the United States, some of them victims of terrorism themselves, will continue to get the most intensive scrutiny of any arrival. They go through up to two years of vetting including biometric screening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN terrorism analyst and editor in chief of "CTC Sentinel" Paul Cruickshank joins me now live on the phone.

And before we talk about perhaps Abaaoud's path through Europe, you know, with regard to refugees, the fact that, you know, a lot of folks back here at home have been up in arms over bringing in refugees precisely because terrorists like this man could sneak in and crack the system. PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST (on the phone): Well clearly,

there's been concern about this, especially, Brooke, in the wake of the Paris attacks. What we know that at least two of the attackers came in through the Greek island of Leros. They had fake Syrian passports. They posed as refugees essentially exploiting the Syrian refugee processing system to get into Europe. Also the possibility now that the ringleader in the plot, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, was also in Leros and also exploiting that refugee processing system.

What we hear from our sources is that the French have a firm belief now that he was in Leros at some point in the weeks before the Paris attacks. What they are investigating right now is whether he indeed entered the European Union through Leros exploiting this refugee processing system like the other attackers. But there is also the possibility that he had already the managed to come back to Europe and was there in Leros to Greek, these are two attackers.

So they are investigating both those possibilities right now, Brooke. But clearly, there has been mounting concern that ISIS is trying to exploit this refugee processing system that the sheer numbers coming in to Europe to get operatives into European Union.

But I think we should also points out that there have not been a huge number of cases where there has been a confirmed nexus between terrorism and refugees coming in.

BALDWIN: OK, let me ask you about this remaining fugitive, Abdeslam. The one law in Belgium that prevented overnight how searches may have allowed him to evade capture for days.

CRUICKSHANK: Well, that's a possibility that some in the Belgium parliament have been raising. My understanding is that that is far from confirmed. Belgium counterterrorism officials telling me that the trail for him went cold on the Saturday after the attacks just one day after the attack and that they have had no information about him since then.

The raid in question that was a few days later. So this may turn out really not to be very much. But clearly, that the background here is that there has been concern in Belgium about some of the restrictions put on the police in terms of when they can go in and no trade or not. But I don't think it is established that point that these restrictions played a big impact in getting him impact in getting him or not in this case, Brooke.

[15:10:16] BALDWIN: OK. Paul Cruickshank, thank you so much for taking the time to call in. I appreciate that.

Meantime, officials have also revealed the encryption apps that they believe some of these Paris terrorists used in the days before the coordinated onslaught on November 13th. Officials say these killers used apps you probably have on your phone, What's App and Telegram. And investigators can see that because of the encryption here, they may never know what's actually in these messages. Just yesterday the director of the FBI expressed frustration over how encryption often helps terrorists go dark at the most urgent times. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: If ISIL finds somebody online who is a live one, someone who might be willing to travel or kill in place, they will begin a twitter direct messaging contact. If they really think this is someone who will kill on their behalf, they make another move. They move them from twitter direct messaging which we can get access to with lawful process to a mobile messaging app that's end to end encrypted. And at that moment, the needle that we have been searching a nationwide haystack to find goes invisible to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The Paris attackers also used other methods to cover their tracks including changing cell phone's sim cards, apparently trying to avoid surveillance.

Coming up from Russia with love, Vladimir Putin calling Donald Trump outstanding, flamboyant and talented. Now he reveals what he would do if Donald Trump were to win the White House.

Plus, is Jeb Bush thinking about backing out of the loyalty pledge over Donald Trump? Hear what Bush's advisers are doing behind the scenes against the Republican front-runner.

And this new twist in the now infamous (INAUDIBLE) case. Remember this kid, this guy, the teen who avoided jail after driving drunk killed four people. Used that defense of Afluenza. The fact the he was too spoiled. Well, guess what, he is missing now and authorities suspect he is on the run.

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[15:15:54] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin here.

Candidates back on the campaign trail following Tuesday night's Republican debate here on CNN in Las Vegas where Jeb Bush told Donald Trump that his insults will not get him to the White House. Trump got a chance to hit back last night on the "Jimmy Kimmel show."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Jeb Bush scared of you or scared in general?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he is scared of me. He is having a hard time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think he wants to run for president?

TRUMP: No. He was a happy warrior, but he's never been a happy warrior. And he has having a hard time running. He has really had, you know, he was supposed to be because of the name everyone thought he was ads on favorite. And define him. I gave him this term low energy. I said he is a low energy individual. We don't need in this country low energy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, he may call Jeb Bush low energy. Jeb Bush in his camp may actually be hitting back harder.

CNN's chief political correspondent Dana Bash joins me now with that.

And Dana Bash, great job the other night at the debate, by the way. Good to see you.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, my friend. You too.

BALDWIN: So the Bush camp told you that they are looking into what would happen if Jeb Bush were to withdraw his republican loyalty pledge, is that correct?

BASH: Kind of. And when I say kind of, it's not because of what you said, it's because of how kind of murky, probably intentionally so, the Bush campaign is making this.

Let me just show you what the Bush spokesman, Tim Miller, said On the Record. He said the following.

We did due diligence looking into the pledge rules. The reality is Jeb made his view that Trump would be an unserious, chaos president crystal clear on Tuesday night. He's focused on beating him.

OK, so there you have that. Now the back story. The back story is that there was a story in "Politico" this morning that said that Jeb Bush was considering going out on Tuesday night and saying you know what, he is not going to support Donald Trump if Donald Trump is the nominee.

I talked to a Bush adviser this morning, who said that insisted that that is not true. That he wasn't going to say anything other than he has said time and time again which is he won't even entertain that. That he believes that he, Jeb Bush, will be the nominee, end of story.

But what they do because the Jeb Bush campaign, just like every other campaign, they were getting calls after Trump's new policy not to allow Muslims into this country came out. They were getting calls saying do you still support him that they did their due diligence and looked at states that require a pledge to get on the ballot just to make sure that there would be no wiggle room. If you're a little bit kind of, you know, perplexed as to why they would do that?

BALDWIN: There's a lot of zigzagging here.

BASH: Why they would do that, Brooke, and still not to make the pledge, I think it leads back to the original, which is are we sure that Jeb Bush was really not considering going after Trump in the ultimate way saying I won't support you even if you're the nominee.

BALDWIN: OK. Things that make you go hmm.

Let's talk Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. Their debate performances, you know, to me the headline was their back and forth. They were arguing that night. They are arguing still back and forth at each other on the campaign trail. Here is a sampling with regard to immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Senator Rubio's campaign understands that if conservatives continue to unite, they don't have a path to victory. And so, their only hope is to try to launch false attacks. And unfortunately, that's something they have been doing more and more.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everyone on that stage talks tough. It's easy. I can stand here tonight and say we are or this morning and say we are going to utterly destroy ISIS. We are going to blow them up. We are going to make the sand glow. That's easy to say. What are you going to do it with?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: These two, Dana, yes, they have some things in common, but they seem to have such different bases looking at the two of them on the spectrum politically. Why are they so totally going after each other, do you think?

[15:20:00] BASH: That's such a good point. Look. I mean, first of all, just who they are, right. I mean, not only are they the same age up until I guess two weeks from now when Cruz turns 45. They are both 44. They kind of have the same kind of new face next generation Republican.

But you're absolutely right. Marco Rubio now that Jeb Bush is doing so poorly in the polls is sort of hoping to get that establishment mantle vote, if you will. And Ted Cruz doesn't want any part of that. I mean, he has from the get-go been Mr. Outsider. I'm not going to listen to the Washington establishment.

However, the first contest date is in Iowa. And the immigration issue is one - and I should say that Ted Cruz in several polls is up, in one poll way, way up in Iowa. The expectation, frankly, at this point is that Ted Cruz should win Iowa. So what Marco Rubio is trying to do is stall his momentum by turning around something that was supposed to be his own Achilles heel, the fact that he supports a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. Turn that around that he did on the debate stage the other night on Ted Cruz and suggest that he supports legal status, something that many Iowa Republicans those who are saying that they will go out and caucus for Ted Cruz do not support. So that is why you are getting this back and forth. And it's becoming so incredibly intense between the two of them. It's all about Iowa.

BALDWIN: It is. Iowa, February 1st, got it on my calendar.

Dana Bash, I know you do as well. Thank you so much.

BASH: Thanks, Brooke. BALDWIN: The Republican presidential candidates, they are on the road

today. Listen. It's still quite the crowded field with more than a dozen still vying for the job. Many still just in single digits in the polls, not exactly getting tractions. So when is it time to call it quits? Who needs to say bye-bye? Claire Malone is with me today, senior writer for "FiveThirtyEight Politics." Has been talking about what's called this drop out draft over at "FiveThirtyEight." Kind of like the fantasy football of politics. Also with me is Jamie Weinstein, senior editor of "Daily Caller."

So good to see both of you.

So to you first. According to your blog is fear and your fantasy football of politics, who should be dropping out?

CLARE MALONE, SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER, FIVETHIRTYEIGHT.COM: Well, I think it's a lot of the guys, someone like Lindsey Graham, I think was first draft. Someone who is in the establishment vein who is a little bit worried about, I think, the state of the party. If you watched the undercard debate the other night, Lindsey Graham was trying to be sort of the voice of reason saying Trump isn't a good look for the party.

BALDWIN: He's not the only one saying that, by the way.

MALONE: He is not the only one.

BALDWIN: And he has done pretty well in the undercard debates. I mean, I'm interested that that's number one on the list. OK.

MALONE: Yes. Another one that we said, you know, my colleagues and I, this draft and another one we said was Rand Paul should be getting out of the race. He is not doing that well in the polls. He is slipping in support. Respecting Cruz is going to maybe pick up some of those libertarian voters that would be leaning Rand's way.

So a lot of these guys, you know, I'm not sure how many people will drop out before Iowa, how many people take Christmas break to convenient excuse to say we talked about it as a family and we are not sure we should do it.

BALDWIN: You sound like a politician there, Clare. That's who you guys say should drop. You say four specifically should remain. Who were those four?

JAMIE WEINSTEIN, SENIOR EDITOR, DAILY CALLER: Well, I think at this it point, there's only four that really have a plausible way at the Republican nomination. I think at the top of that list are three candidates, Trump, Cruz and Rubio. They are really fighting it out. And the dark horse candidate is Chris Christie. If he can somehow upset New Hampshire, there's still some voters out there that believe that it's a governor that we need. He seems to be the governor that is the last one really remaining with a shot and he can pull up enough set in New Hampshire. Those are the four that I think should remain in and the others should call it a day.

BALDWIN: Do you think all four of those, you know, have enough variety to satisfy all of everyone under the tent?

WEINSTEIN: You know, you are never going to satisfy all the Rand Paul supporters, for instance. He is a kind of unique flavor in the party. Ted Cruz is trying to pick up some of them, but you know, it doesn't really matter if it satisfies everyone at this point. The others weren't able to get enough support. These are the four here that really look like they have some chance. I think in Christie is a smaller chance, but the other three are really a serious chance of winning the nomination.

BALDWIN: You know, I have just been wondering as folks have been talking about when and who, how this would be win a gown, if any of these candidates would actually benefit from having a larger field.

MALONE: Sure. In some ways, I think Ted Cruz benefits from having Donald Trump in the race.

BALDWIN: Why?

MALONE: I think it's a little of, you know, drafting on the support of I think Trump voters kind of like Cruz and Cruz voters are kind of picking up what Trump is putting down. And I also think that Trump - you know, Ted Cruz is a very constitutionally, very conservative. He has got very, you know, socially conservative and some ways having Trump in the race sort of takes, you know, makes Cruz look a bit more, it is not establishment, but it makes him look of the mainstream when in fact if Trump weren't in the race, I think there would be a lot of eyes on Cruz saying, hey, he doesn't have any friends in Washington, you know. What's his deal a little bit? So I think Cruz benefits from having someone like Trump in there.

BALDWIN: Thirty seconds.

WEINSTEIN: I think Trump benefits the most because he has passionate supporters that won't leave him. I think who is hurt the most is Marco Rubio by having Kasich and Christie and Bush in the race. They are take wag from that establishment support that would probably go to Marco Rubio if they were out of the race.

BALDWIN: Jamie Weinstein, Clare Malone, thank you so much. We will talk again I have a feeling.

Still ahead here, have you heard? The Russian president calling Donald Trump bright and talented in this national address. We will dig deeper into how Vladimir Putin would deal with the potential president Trump.

But first the teen at the center of that so-called affluenza case, yes, he is now MIA. His lawyers argue that he was too spoiled to know right from wrong. (INAUDIBLE) into that deadly drunk drank driving crash. Killed four people. He got off with probation and again he is missing. The sheriff not surprised to hear they can't find him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. (END VIDEO CLIP)

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