Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Interview with John Kirby; Sanders Campaign DNC Access Closed Down; Laquan McDonald Shooter Due in Court; Affluenza Teen Missing. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired December 18, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN KIRBY, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: ... you have to do it with indigenous forces. You need capable and willing partners on the ground, but they have to be indigenous, they have to be regional, they have local, they have to know the culture, the ground, the topography and just as importantly, they have to know the enemy.

[12:30:15] And so that's what we're doing. In Iraq, we've got some 3,000, a little bit more than 3,000 U.S. troops, but they're in training advise and assist capacity to help the Iraqi security forces to go against ISIL, and they are. And they have had some success even just this month.

In Syria, we worked on the train and equip program, obviously that got revamped and is being looked at, you're going to put in a small number special operations forces. Again mostly to do training advise and assist to help improve the capabilities of the partners on the ground.

You have to have a sustainable defeat, and a sustainable defeat has to rely on the capable partners that are already there.

If you introduce large numbers, additional large numbers of U.S. forces in a combat role then absolutely, that means you're accepting the risk of not just additional resources applied, but potential casualties to American troops.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Why is that off of the record by the way, wouldn't the president want that information out, but again people are upset because he's not doing enough to counter ISIL, and the Republicans are seizing on it. Why wouldn't the president shout that from the rooftop, this could cost us 500 people every six months, you know.

KIRBY: Well again, I can't speak to the details there and what was an off the record setting. But the president has been clear as commander in chief of how he wants this were prosecuted.

And there is a strategy. It is making success or having success. And again, it really relies on the capable partners on the ground that are supported from the air and in the training capacity by the United States and the coalition.

BANFIELD: You should to come up to New York more often.

KIRBY: Thanks very much. BANFIELD: Because it's easier to ask you question in person than on T.V.

KIRBY: I agree. It is easier. Thank you so much.

BANFIELD: Thank you so much for coming in.

Coming up, Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign in some pretty hot water over cyber snooping. That's what the allegation is folks and cyber snooping into president's or presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton's voter list. And how did this happen and is it legitimate and by the way when you get that deep in the weeds, can it be proven? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:55] BANFIELD: Believe knowledge is power, and you should, because it is. You're going to understand the gravity of a presidential campaign getting access to a rival campaign voter file.

The Bernie Sanders' campaign promptly has fired its national data director after that person accessed private information about the Hillary Clinton campaign. Not through hacking so to speak, but when a firewall was briefly and inadvertently dropped by a software vendor who is working for the Democratic National Committee.

Now, that's not stopping the DNC from punishing the Sanders camp in a way that could really hurt them too.

And our Senior Political Correspondent Nia-Malika Henderson joins me now to explain.

So as I understand it Nia-Malika, what happened was there's information the DNC has about Hillary's voters and about Bernie's voters and there's this firewall between them. And when it came down, the Bernie folks were able to get in to the Hillary folks info and read it.

But what's the info and why is it so critical and damaging?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is this huge voter file that the DNC has, and it's made up of some 200 million voters, voters that have voted democratic in the past, and could vote democratic in the future.

In the individual files of Hillary Clinton has are based on that. But then the Hillary Clinton campaign, based on the conversations that field workers might have in different state, adds to that data, right.

All the millions of dollars of the Hillary Clinton campaign has been able to raised goes to some of that - those efforts to collect that data.

So if you're the Sanders' campaign, and they have of course have denied that they've done anything wrong, if you're the Sanders' campaign, and you can see that data, you can see the kind of information that they have on these voters.

And this is very detailed information sometimes. Sometimes they could be e-mails, there's age, race, where you live, whether or not you own a pet, do you have teenagers in the house, all of those sorts of information.

And then the Sanders' campaign could then kind of tell what kind of voters targeting. So that's the kind of information that a Sanders' campaign staffer might have had access to, and they could really tell what the strategy of a campaign is and this is crucial to a campaign.

BANFIELD: And the DNC is smacking with Sanders' campaign saying that they're not going to give them access to the voter database now.

So real quickly, what is the person, because as I understand it, it's one guy, its one guy with the Bernie campaign who says he and he alone did this, what is he actually saying about the role?

HENDERSON: Well, here is what he said. CNN talked to him on the phone, Josh Retski is his name, he has said "We knew there was a security breach in the data, and we were just trying to understand it and what was happening to the best of my knowledge, nobody took anything that would have given the Sanders' campaign any benefit." And that is of course, Josh Retski there.

The Sanders' campaign is going to have a press conference today at 1:00 p.m., I'm sure they'll have more to say about this turn in their campaign.

This comes as the Sanders' campaign has had a pretty good week. They got some big endorsements from unions, and now this.

BANFIELD: Yeah, and I think I read somewhere where he said, I was trying to find out what was going on with our data.

HENDERSON: Exactly.

BANFIELD: Not so much about what's going on with her data.

HENDERSON: Yes, yes.

BANFIELD: Well, maybe they'll make any more clearer. Because like I said you can get way into the weeds in the details because that's what the devil is, in those details.

Nia-Malika Henderson, thank you, nice to see you.

HENDERSON: Thank you.

BANFIELD: The democratic presidential candidates by the way are very busy right now because they are getting step for their debate tomorrow in New Hampshire.

[12:39:31] CNN's Wolf Blitzer is going to bring special coverage of that tomorrow night, 10:30 p.m. right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: In about a half hour, the former Chicago police officer who's charged in the shooting of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald is set to appear in a courtroom.

This week, grand jury formally indicted Jason Van Dyke on firs first- degree murder charges, and official misconduct charges.

The grand jury alleges that Van Dyke, "Without lawful justification, intentionally or knowingly shot and killed Laquan McDonald.

McDonald was struck by 16 bullets in 15 seconds.

Our Rosa Flores is covering the story. She's in Chicago live right now.

So what are we expecting in this hearing?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Ashleigh, Jason Van Dyke actually just walked in to the courtroom moments ago in this courthouse that you see right behind me.

Now, this is his first appearance since the release of the actual indictment that shows that there are six counts of murder and one count of misconduct.

Now in the background of all of this that's happening there's a U.S. DOJ investigation into the patterns and the practices of the police department.

Now take a moment to digest this, because the unions here in Chicago are fighting for the destruction of the disciplinary records of the police disciplinary records at a time when people in Chicago are asking for the police accountability and transparency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: The release of videos showing the deadly shootings of blacks in Chicago by white police officers has protesters on the streets demanding police accountability.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many shots?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE/FEMALE: 15 shots.

[12:45:00] FLORES: But unbeknownst to many, the police union is in a legal fight with the city of Chicago to have decades' worth of police misconduct records destroyed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I protect all of my members. And I will do continue to do that.

FLORES: The Fraternal Order of Police, or the FOP, is arguing breach of the bargaining agreement with the city of Chicago, which says in part "all disciplinary investigation files will be destroyed five years after the date of the incident, seven for allegations of excessive force.

CRAIG FUTTERMAN, CHICAGO LAW PROFESSOR: You want to talk about a bonfire stuff going up in smoke.

FLORES: Chicago University law professor Craig Futterman is fighting the destruction of records, which include allegations for excessive use of force, illegal searches and unlawful arrests.

FUTTERMAN: Basically they have bargained away the transparency and accountability, so the police contracts need to be changed.

FLORES: Futterman, recently won a 10 years battle over the release of just a fraction of police misconduct records which date back a half a century which show that Jason Van Dyke, the officer charged with Laquan McDonald murder had 19 complains before shooting and killing the teen, and including ten for use of force.

The officer who shot and killed Cedric Chatman, 30 complaints including 10 for use of force, none of the complaints for either officer resulted in disciplinary action.

Futterman filled an emergency stop on the destruction of records with the judge ruling all parties involve must get a two week notice before records are destroyed.

The FOP declined CNN's request for interview, saying that the matter is still in litigation, but the FOP did grant an interview to a local CNN affiliate recently.

DEAN ANGELO, SENIOR PRESIDENT, FRANTERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: I don't understand why a 77 year old retiree's complaint in 1967 e needs to be on a database.

FUTTERMAN: It is not just history. It's about who's currently working, and it shows also cost of the value to across patterns of abuse.

FLORES: Patterns and practices that are now being investigated by the U.S. DOJ.

But protesters are concerned that if the FOP gets its way, the feds won't get a full picture of the police misconduct in Chicago.

And we have those pictures of Jason Van Dyke walking into the courthouse with his attorney, we've seem him in a beanie, we've seen wearing very casual clothing, this time, wearing a suit. Now, we should add that his attorney is no longer giving the press any interviews, but he has said in the past that he believed that his client acted in self-defense.

Now, about the destruction of records, we should add that the city of Chicago sent us a statement saying that the city does not want, the city opposes the destruction of police city records. Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: That I'll be an interesting conversation with the union at another time. Rosa Flores, thank you very much. Up next, remember the teenager who used the so-called affluenza defense to avoid getting prison time for a drunk driving crash that killed four people? Well, not that kid is in a whole lot more trouble for violating the probation that some saw as an unbelievable gift from a judge. Now, guess what? He is missing. To let you know what's going to happens to him if they find him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is almost nothing that Madeline Stuart won't try.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She been indoor sky diving, zip-lining in a way. She's been in scuba diving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So when her 19-year-old daughter wanted to model, Rosanne Stuart wasn't about to stand in her way.

ROSSANE STUART, MOTHER OF MADELINE: I'm the realizes, I know my daughter has down syndrome, but doesn't meant that you can't do different things.

Like Maddie half of all children born with down syndrome have some type of hurt defect. So in Maddie's case the blood that was going into her heart wasn't getting enough oxygen before then going out. So when she'd cry she turn blue and passed out.

Maddie, almost didn't survive to see her first birthday. At two months old she had heart surgery. The doctor said she had 13 percent chance survival rate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: you would know that by looking at this spirited teen today.

STUART: She does sport seven days a week, she's so energetic and just exhaust me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there's no resting in sight. Maddie's modeling career is taking off. She walked the runway during New York fashion week this fall, and won a contract to be the face of lipstick company Glossy Girl.

All what you mom says is giving hope to others with disability.

[12:49:47] STUART: Madeline isn't going to be the president of the united states because she is Australian, but if she was American, you know, what I mean, she want to be brain surgeon or an astronaut, but she is changing the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I want you to drop everything for a moment, so you can get a nice clean look at this rich kid turned drunk driving killer. I am not trying to the pile on to this kid, no, by any means, but this 18-year- old Ethan Couch is now wanted by the Texas police. He's also wanted by the FBI, and it doesn't stop there. And did you get a good look, imagine him without the goatee and maybe longer hair or shorter hair, he's also wanted by the U.S. marshals, all of them are ready to put him in jail, what they call big boy jail, in their words. Because they say he ran away along with his mom while he supposed to be on probation.

The probation was a gift from a judge, because let me remind you of the damage that that young man has caused society. On June 15th, 2013, a mother, a daughter, Hollie Boyles and Shelby Boyles, left home to him Breanna Mitchell who's SUV broke down by the side of the road. Brian Jennings a youth pastor was driving pass and he also very kindly stopped to help.

Enter Ethan Couch at that time he was 16-years-old and he was just driving along with a blood alcohol content of 0.24 three times the legal limit and he plowed into them. And he killed all of them. Four people dead. He was not one of them. Instead of him getting a 20-year sentence that the prosecutors wanted him to get, the judge instead gave him a decade of probation, because couch's defense was that he suffered from something called "affluenza." He was a rich kid whose parents never set any limits for him.

[12:55:02] BANFIEDL: I am not making this up. And that's why Randi Kaye has gone ahead and going to look into the latest outrageous video that will make your blood boil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look closely at this video that young man with the blond hair may be Ethan Couch, and if it is, he could be in big trouble, that because Couch is on probation, and isn't supposed to be drinking alcohol. 2 1/2 years ago at 16, Couch drove in a Drunken hayes, crashed and killed four people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need some ambulance, it's bad. We flipped and -- oh god.

KAYE: Someone posted the beer pong clip on Twitter earlier this month. And the county D.A got wind on it. They went to talk to Ethan Couch about it, but it seems he disappeared. His probation officer hasn't hear from him in days. No one knows where he is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

KAYE: The county sheriff wanted Couch locked up, back in 2013, but one defense witness changed that.

In one of the most bizarre defense strategies we've ever heard of, attorneys for Couch blamed the boy's parents for his behavior that night, all before of how they raised him.

A phycologist and defense witness testified that the boy suffered from something called "affluenza", a lifestyle where wealth brought privilege and there were no consequences for bad behavior. The so called "affluenza" defense touch off outrage around the country. After all Couch he's blood alcohol was three times the legal limit and four people were dead.

But court bought it. Couch pleaded guilty to intoxication manslaughter. But instead of going to jail, the jugge sent him to alcohol rehabilitation and 10 years probation. His father agreed to pay $0.50 million for his sons pricey rehab digs.

Victim's families were horrified.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had over 180 years of life taken, a future life not 180 years live but 180 years of future life taken and two of those were my wife and daughter.

KAYE: ABC News obtained these deposition tapes from one of the victim's civil suits against Couch. Listen as Ethan Couch's mother admits to letting her son drive illegally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You understood that at any time he was under 16, he was never to be driving by himself.

TONYA COUCH, ETHAN MOTHER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nevertheless, you allowed that behavior to happen, correct?

COUCH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When's the last time that you are recall discipling Ethan for anything?

COUCH: I don't remember.

KAYE: And now the authorities think Couch might have fled the country with none other than his mother. The boy's attorney would not discuss the case. If the authorities do find Couch, a judge will decide if he violated his probation, and if so, this time, Ethan Couch could end up behind bar for a decade.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: This morning, my colleagues CNN's John Berman spoke with the father of one of the victims injured in the crash and asked him what he'd like to say to Ethan Couch right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN MCCONNELL, SON INJURED BY ETHAN COUCH: You know, I don't wish anything bad upon Ethan, and I think that what is happening, I don't see an exit strategy the way he's going. I would just say, you know, Ethan, you are a man now, and it is time to man-up, come in and let's begin to make good decision, and start again. I mean, you are not beyond redemption.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: For the legal view, I want to bring in the CNN Legal Analyst and Defense Attorney Danny Cevallos.

If they catch Ethan Couch, will he automatically go away behind bars for what's left of that 10 year probationary sentence?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALST: Not automatically. Bu the last thing a criminal defended on probation even wants to do is go before his back judge and explains, why I violated my probation? So why not automatic, let just say highly likely.

BANFIELD: So we've heard the back judges so at bench, but they'll be another judge, it's probably not to please with him.

Real quickly, if he skipped the country, could we get an extradition on something that is not so high as murder? He's manslaughter.

CEVALLOS: Almost all of the North American countries have some form of extradition. Cuba might be an option, but everything has changed so much in Cuba in the last few months that who knows what they would do, but even countries without extradition treaties may still choose to extradite in certain situation, and they may do so here, in some, nowhere is probably safe.

BANFIELD: 10 seconds left. What about Mrs. Couch, could she be charged on it?

CEVALLOS: If she had terms under the probation order, she could be in violation herself in Texas and for harboring a fugitive, a separate crime, either way. She's going to be in some hot water.

BANFIELD: It's just unbelievable story, and I predict they will find both of them.

CEVALLOS: Oh, yeah. They do leave a trail.

BANFIELD: I guess what I say that. They do leave a trail like a discover card or something like that.

Danny Cevallos, thank you for that. Thank you for watching everyone.

[13:00:01] My colleague Wolf Blitzer's starts right now.