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Barack Obama Speaks About ISIS; Interview with Frank Fiorina; Steve Harvey Announced Wrong Winner as Miss Universe; Knoxville, Tennessee High School Football Player Being Called a Hero for Saving the Lives of Three Friends. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 21, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:19] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: It is the bottom of the hour now.

In his last interview before taking the holiday break, the president, Barack Obama, said ISIS cannot destroy the United States and that's important for Americans quote "to keep things in perspective." Here's more from the president speaking to NPR.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you have been watching television for the last month, all you have been seeing, all you've been hearing about is these guys with masks or black flags who are potentially coming to get you. And so, I understand why people are concerned about it, and this is a serious situation, but what is important is for people to recognize that the power, the strength of the United States and its allies are not threatened by an organization like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Of course, our White House correspondent is Michelle Kosinski, who is in Hawaii, following the president on vacation. Look at that backdrop.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm supposed to be working here? I'm supposed to be doing work? OK. I will take that under consideration, Don, right away. I will get on that.

LEMON: All of the fun aside, though, Michelle. The president seemed to blame the media in part for the unease Americans are feeling about ISIS. That's been a bit controversial among many people.

KOSINSKI: Yes. Right. And just before taking off for his vacation, this was a really serious, wide ranging interview and especially on the subject of ISIS. Despite all the criticism that's been lobbed during this political season including from some coming from members of his own party, despite all those polls showing so many Americans not agreeing with current ISIS strategy, the president extensively defended that strategy, the president again extensively defended that strategy, describing why certain things his opponents wouldn't work. But when asked, you know, why does so many Americans disagree with what you're doing, he cited not only ISIS' own propaganda machine, but also the media. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Look, the media is pursuing ratings. This is a legitimate news story. I think that, you know, it's up to the media to make a determination about how they want to cover things. There's no doubt that the actions of ISIL are designed to amplify their power and the threat that they pose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: He thinks that there is a legitimate criticism, he said, among people who say, well, the administration maybe hasn't informed people enough about all that has been done thus far against ISIS. And he said it's a goal to better inform people about that.

He also hit out at his critics saying that there is just a few people out there, Hillary Clinton one of them. He actually mentioned Lindsey Graham by name, who propose alternatives that are specific. Things like sending a small number of U.S. ground troops or establishing a no-fly zone. And he explained why he thinks those methods wouldn't work. But he said for the most part, the criticism has been quite general. Things like simply more bombing, Don.

LEMON: So let's talk about the reason you're there for the president's vacation. You know, I have been there on my own vacation at the time. Have issues getting around when the president is there. But I know he likes to go to the shaved ice place and get pizza and all this stuff. So what's he doing for fun?

KOSINSKI: Yes. Well, he is only been here for a couple days, but he has managed to make time for golfing, of course. Dinner out with friends, some hiking with the family. And it is surprising how few events there really are. You know, there's not a lot of movement out of the house they rent. They spend a lot of time just being together and being quiet there. And then at night sometimes they go out, you know, for a dinner and things like that. But so far, no public events on his schedule. We do, of course, expect him to meet with the troops on the base here on Christmas day. That's become a yearly tradition, Don.

LEMON: Enjoy, Michelle, it's beautiful. It is really beautiful.

Thank you. Merry Christmas to you.

You know, it has been said that behind every good man is a good woman. But what if the person standing out in front is that good woman?

Our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash sits down with Frank Fiorina, the husband of Republican presidential candidate, Carly Fiorina. He shares what life with Carly is like and what being first gentleman could possibly entail.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK FIORINA, CARLY FIORINA'S HUSBAND: Good morning, girls. How are we doing?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Inside Carly Fiorina's headquarters, a visit with young campaign aids and a thank you.

[15:35:03] FIORINA: We really appreciate it.

BASH: This is Frank Fiorina's role these days, a supportive husband who does whatever he can to help his wife's presidential bid.

You are Mr. Carly Fiorina.

FIORINA: I was always proud to be. Always proud to be.

BASH: Taking a backseat to his wife is hardly new for him. He predicted it when he met Carly more than 30 years ago when they were both working at AT&T.

FIORINA: I was a higher level than her, but there was no doubt in my mind she was going to surpass me in the ranks at AT&T. Rightfully so. And she would be chairman someday.

BASH: Did you tell her that?

FIORINA: I did tell her that. And I'm not even quite sure why. At the time, it was a mixture of a great lie and the truth.

BASH: It wasn't AT&T, but Carly did eventually become a CEO at Hewlett-Packard and Frank decided to quit his job to support her.

You retired at age 48, the peak of your career to be Carly's husband.

FIORINA: That's true. And it was quite controversial, believe me. I knew it was the right thing to do.

BASH: But playing the supportive role isn't always easy.

FIORINA: When you think about a person that's that smart and that hard working and that focused, it's hard to keep up sometimes.

BASH: They never had had children of their own, but Carly bonded with his then young daughters like none of his other dates had.

FIORINA: It was just like a Disney movie. I mean, they would play havoc with my dates. When I finally got to bring Carly home, it was pretty clear to me that the three of them loved each other.

BASH: In 2009 one of Frank's daughters, Lori, died of a drug overdose, the same year Carly was diagnosed with breast cancer.

FIORINA: It was a bad year. I kept saying this is going to end badly. She was too smart, too educated, and she would never admit she had a problem.

BASH: He wears a bracelet made from a necklace Lori wore the day she died. FIORINA: It was a necklace that Carly bought her. So, I know it

looks silly --

BASH: No, it doesn't.

FIORINA: I wear it all the time.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My husband lost one of our daughters to addiction.

BASH: Carly often talks on the campaign trail about the loss of her stepdaughter and the need to fight addiction. She also talks about who Frank who started out as an AT&T technician and tow truck driver keeps her grounded.

C. FIORINA: OK. Why would I want to be president? My husband asks me that occasionally.

BASH: Do you like politics?

FIORINA: Frankly, not particularly. Politics is so different than business. And, of course, I spent my whole life in business and in working.

BASH: He's often with Carly on the trail, but mostly keeps his opinions to himself.

FIORINA: I'm very cautious about when I give her advice. Very cautious.

BASH: Why?

FIORINA: Because she has so many people giving her advice. So I really try to pick my targets. If there's something I really feel she's being misled about, I speak up.

BASH: Like most political spouses, he takes attacks on his wife harder than she does.

When you hear criticism of your wife, what do you want to do?

FIORINA: I'm an Italian boy from Pittsburgh. So I don't need to quite explain what I would really like to do. But it just infuriates me.

FIORINA: And when Donald Trump made fun of his wife's face --

FIORINA: I almost thought it was humorous. I mean, out of all the people on the stage, it would be hard to say there was anything wrong with Carly's face I would say.

BASH: Do you think she's treated differently because she's a woman?

FIORINA: Carly won't say this, but I will. I have watched for 34 years how she has been treated differently in everything she has done in life. Everything. BASH: Still, Frank's prediction about Carly's business success came

true. They are both hoping he was prophetic about politics.

FIORINA: At least 18, 20 years ago I said she was going to be president someday. But I wasn't encouraging her to do that. I was just stating the obvious. That's all.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And she knows how to handle herself up on that debate stage, certainly. And certainly, some other ladies too know how to handle themselves up on stage. We are talking about Miss Universe. The huge faux paw by popular TV personality Steve Harvey announced the wrong winner as Miss Universe. And then he had to backtrack apologizing and make the correction live on TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE HARVEY, TV PERSONALITY: I have to apologize. The first runner up is Colombia. Miss Universe 2015 is Philippines! This is exactly what's on the card. I will take responsibility for this. It was my mistake. It was on the card.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:40:31] LEMON: Wow, every time it's like the first time. Of course, there are conspiracy theories this was all an act done for the purpose of ratings. And now with me to talk about that is NPR's media and TV critic, Eric Deggans.

Come on, Eric. I know you have been watching this blow up on the Internet. Conspiracy theories for ratings happen at the end of the show, Steve Harvey would have to be crazy to take the hit for this sort of thing that it was on purpose.

ERIC DEGGANS, NPR'S MEDIA AND TV CRITIC: Yes, I would be highly skeptical of that particular idea. I need to see some proof that that happened. It's a huge hit to his credibility as a host. And this is the first Miss Universe since Donald Trump sold this concern to new owners. And so, of course, I'm sure they wanted everything to go off without a hitch. I don't believe that happened.

LEMON: Let's put up his response because he tweeted this, obviously, had very sad what happened last night at Miss Universe pageant. I sold it six months ago for a record price. This would never have happened.

Well, maybe it would never happened because he wouldn't have hired Steve Harvey, who knows. But I mean, it could turn out to be good for the pageant. It's certainly not good for those two ladies up there and it's not good for Steve Harvey, I mean, poor guy. It is live TV, you know. It happens.

DEGGANS: Yes. Well, you know, Donald Trump is great. At saying things you can't necessarily confirm. So who knows whether or not this would have happened if he still owned the pageant. What we do know is that in these live situations, particularly live contests, live award shows, one of the most important things you can do is make sure you get the results right. We know, for example, in 2013 the Miss Universe Canada pageant had a problem where they announced the wrong winner because of a mathematical error. And they didn't find out that they should crown the wrong winner for hours, I think the next day. So this is not unheard of. (INAUDIBLE) will tell you that the biggest mistake you can make and the thing they are worried about is announcing the wrong winner.

LEMON: So Eric, listen. I want to get to this. I want to ask to ask you this because we're running out of time here. He has really, it is meaning Steve Harvey, he has been taking a hit on especially on social media. And you know, I think Steve is probably a little touchy when it comes to criticism. So what's going on there?

DEGGANS: Well, obviously, you know, this is a viral video. Everybody can understand this idea of announcing the wrong winner. It is everyone is talking about it. There was a report in the "New York Daily News" that there was a snap chat video that showed him complaining backstage that teleprompter was wrong. And that even though the card was right, the teleprompter was wrong.

I think one of the things we can agree on here is you have to be super careful about announcing the winner of a pageant. And there should have been extra care taken to make sure that Steve had the right information. But everyone is human. And it's always possible to make a mistake. And people shouldn't be so harsh. And I'm seeing criticism online that veers into racism because Steve Harvey is African-American and because there's been a lot of controversy about Trump's comments about people of color, particularly Muslims and Mexican immigrants. So that's a real issue and a real problem.

LEMON: Well, that is always, as always on social media. People go to that sort of thing and it's just ridiculous. I mean, it happens and I don't think we shouldn't even (INAUDIBLE) to that. But again, you are right, live TV, it's tough. It's not as easy as people think it is when you are sitting in your living room and you can be an archer or quarterback.

Thank you Eric Deggans. Appreciate it. See you soon.

Up next, President Obama highlighting a tragic death of a high school athlete shot and killed while shielding his friends from a spray of bullets in Knoxville, Tennessee. The mayor joins us live, next, as her city remembers him as a hero.

And later an American soldier honored decades after an act of courage that saved the Jewish troops under his command. A man so humble he never even told his family about it. We are going to speak with his son.

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[15:47:51] LEMON: A Knoxville, Tennessee high school football player being called a hero for saving the lives of three friends. The 15- year-old Zaevion William Dobson was killed shielding three girls from a spray of bullets. Police are calling it a gang-related shooting. Knoxville police chief broke down describing the young man's courageous act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID RAUSCH, KNOXVILLE POLICE CHIEF: Zaevion Dobson, a 15-year-old Fulton high school student and football player was struck and killed after he jumped on top of three girls to shield them - sorry, to shield them from the shooters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Dobson was just 15 years old.

Joining us now is Knoxville's mayor, Madeline Rogero.

Mayor, thank you for joining us. I wish we could have met under better circumstances. So, I want you to tell me - to our viewers what happened that night because these were just friends sitting on a porch. They were not involved in the gang activity.

MAYOR MADELINE ROGERO, KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE: That's right, they weren't. They actually had been at their high school basketball game and they had left the game and gone home and were just visiting like young people like to do. So they were totally innocent and yet violence erupted around them and Zaevion responded by shielding his friends, the young girls and lost his life in the process.

LEMON: My goodness. Tell us about him about Zaevion Dobson. You called him a mentor to his peers. His coach said that he was well liked by everyone in the school.

ROGERO: Right. I didn't know Zaevion personally, but I know his mentors, his coaches, his teachers and I have talked with them since then. And every one of them talked about what a great kid he was, what a great friend. He was a mentee. He participated in the 100 black men organization here. He was one of the mentees. And I know the men who mentored him. And he would take up and help the other young mentees who were part of the program.

He participated in with the swim team with emerald youth foundation, another one of our groups that reaches out and works with our young people. He played football. He has great coaches there at Fulton high school. He comes from a great family. His mom was very involved in the school and with the coaches and with the community.

So, as I said, he's one of our success stories. He shows that if you give our young people -- when you give our young people opportunity and give them a chance to see it and to grasp it and to utilize those resources that they will step up to it. And so it's such a loss for our community, for all of us. Certainly his family and his friends, but for all of us. But also we are, you know, it's an opportunity to show that when the community surrounds our young people, then they can achieve. They can be on the right track. And he's a perfect example of that. LEMON: Yes. I know it's probably bittersweet to you and to everyone

because the president did mention him last night saying he was a hero. My question to you is do you know why someone would shoot these kids?

ROGERO: Well, I don't think -- they weren't the target. I think there was some violence. And the investigation is still going on. But when you have heightened anger and rage over some other things that are going on, often innocent people get caught in that.

LEMON: Yes.

ROGERO: And as far as we can tell that's what it is. But again, the investigation is ongoing. But these were good kids, innocent kids who just happened to be there, where it was appropriate for them to be.

LEMON: Wrong place at the wrong time as they say, mayor.

Thank you, Mayor Rogero. Our hearts and prayers are with you, guys. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Up next, a son of (INAUDIBLE) World War II hero, an American soldier who stood up to the Nazis and saved the lives of the Jewish troops under his command.

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[15:55:16] LEMON: An American World War II POW has been (INAUDIBLE) honored in Israel as a holocaust hero for saving the lives of his Jewish comrades. Master sergeant Roddy Edmonds refused to tell German officer which of his men were Jews even with a gun barrel pressed to his head.

CNN's Oren Liebermann has the back story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The story of master sergeant Roddy Edmonds doesn't start in victory. American soldier taking prisoners in World War II, only days after arriving in Europe in battle of the bulge. Edmonds was taken to (INAUDIBLE) 9B, a Nazi prisoner of war camp in Central Germany arriving Christmas day. Starving, Edmonds and his friends drew up plans for a restaurant eating off an imaginary menu. After 30 days he was moved to another POW camp where he was tested in a confrontation with Nazi doctrine.

The German commander ordered him to separate out his Jewish soldier soldiers. Edmonds, a Christian, he refused. And the next morning his 1,200 American soldiers stood together. Seventy years later one of those Jewish soldiers, Lester Tanner, recounts the defiance against the German commander.

LESTER TANNER, AMERICAN SOLDIER: And he says to Edmonds, you can't all be Jewish. Someone said, we're all Jews here. And this German major angry takes out his luger, points it at Edmonds head and said, you will order the Jewish-American soldiers to step forward or I will shoot you right now. LIEBERMANN: Edmonds stood his ground and the camp commander stormed

off. He had saved his men. Within months the war was over and Edmonds was home. He never shared the story before he passed away in 1985.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: So among those that master sergeant Edmonds never told about his heroism was his very own son, the reverend Chris Edmonds.

Thank you for being here with us. Your dad was honored as a righteous among the nations by Israel. It is a listing reserve for non-Jews who saved Jews during the holocaust. So how did you find out? And why do you think he kept it quiet?

REV. CHRIS EDMONDS, SON OF WWII POW: Well, I found out by reading an article that I had Googled my dad's name and his rank and an article from "New York Times" came up. And that's where Lester was being interviewed about President Nixon moving back to New York in the '70s. Lester makes a statement about my dad's bravery and courage. And I began a journey to find Lester. And we connected. And that's how the story began to unfold. And I've met other POWs.

But my dad would take it all in stride. He would say I was just doing what I'm supposed to do as a leader of men. I love my men. I was going to save them. And he would think we're making a big deal about it, but I think it is a big deal. It's pretty amazing.

LEMON: He would say that's his duty, I mean. And that's, you know, that's how that generation -- that's why they were called among the greatest generation. What would you want people to remember about your dad?

EDMONDS: I would want them to remember that he was an ordinary everyday American. He loved his country. He loved his community. He loved God. He loved people. And the same character traits that he had, the same powers if you so to speak that he had, we all have. The power to influence people, the power to intercede on their behalf, the power to influence others. And then the power really that most of us don't use, which is to invest in others and make a difference in their lives.

LEMON: What do you think of the ceremony?

EDMONDS: I'm excited about it. It's going to be next month. And it's going to be in Washington, D.C. And we're really excited. Our family is excited. I went on a (INAUDIBLE) recently and that was amazing trip. The folks in (INAUDIBLE) are incredible people. And so we are excited.

LEMON: I can only imagine the conversation that you'll have around the dinner table when with your family this holiday season.

EDMONDS: Yes. We have those quite often even now, but they are amazing conversations. And to be able to live his legacy and to see his -- just the things that he did. But it's not just about him, it is about these men that served with him. They really are the greatest generation. And they saved the world because of their duty and their sacrifice.

LEMON: Yes.

Thank you, sir. Chris Edmonds, thank you. Appreciate it. Best of luck to you and your family for the holidays.

That does it for me. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.

END